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#51 kelticwizard

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 06:37 PM

. Rarely does anyone get much separation from him. And that is not insignificant. That causes the opposing QB to have a smaller window....

That's true, and I think Wilson is just playing the percentages.  If you turn your head to look for the ball, you will likely lose half a step or more in your running.  You might pick up the ball and be able to adjust to it and make a play, but that head turn might well mean the difference between the receiver getting separation or not.  And if that happens, coaches and fans will say the receiver beat Wilson, because when the ball hits the receiver he's half a step ahead of him.

 

So Wilson has adopted on purpose the style of keeping up with his man at all costs.  If the ball comes down late and the receiver slows down and starts adjusting you can look for the ball then.  Or if the ball is not short then you can always try to knock the ball out of the receiver's hands before he tucks it in.  If that doesn't happen, then by being right with the receiver you can say that it was simply a perfect pass.

 

But by all means stick with the receiver.  The Jets have the only corner in the league who follows the Woody Allen philosophy:  Eighty percent of anything is just being there.


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#52 Larz

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 07:06 PM

Yes, in fact, I have.  He always right there with his man, often doesnt get his eyes on the ball in time. I've also seen him get over 70% of the snaps on defense while playing secondary on the league best pass D.  

 

 

Why?  Do you get extra yards now for that even after you decline the penalty? 

 

 

its like in hoops when you whack a guy and he still scores.  thats bad.  I get it that you are the happy jets fan guy, but wilson is a huge liabality and will have a huge target on him.  


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#53 JiF

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 08:39 PM

its like in hoops when you whack a guy and he still scores.  thats bad.  I get it that you are the happy jets fan guy, but wilson is a huge liabality and will have a huge target on him.  

 

No, its actually not the same at all.  In basketball, you get an extra shot called a free throw.  If you make that free throw, you get a point.  You dont get extra yards for PI'ing on a reception unless that PI is short of the first down, which this play was not.  

 

If Kyle Wilson was a liability, the Jets wouldn consistently have the leagues best secondary.  He gets beat, just like every other corner in Football.  For some reason when it happens to him, Jets fans lose site of that.    Kyle isnt anything special but he's a good 3rd corner who can be the #2 if necessary. And thats ok.  Every team needs players like that. 


Edited by JiF, 26 August 2013 - 08:43 PM.

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#54 Bleedin Green

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 08:33 AM

No, its actually not the same at all.  In basketball, you get an extra shot called a free throw.  If you make that free throw, you get a point.  You dont get extra yards for PI'ing on a reception unless that PI is short of the first down, which this play was not.  

 

If Kyle Wilson was a liability, the Jets wouldn consistently have the leagues best secondary.  He gets beat, just like every other corner in Football.  For some reason when it happens to him, Jets fans lose site of that.    Kyle isnt anything special but he's a good 3rd corner who can be the #2 if necessary. And thats ok.  Every team needs players like that. 

 

I've come to realize that I think the issue isn't people's evaluation of Wilson's CB play as much as it is their evaluation of the CB play throughout the NFL.  Jets fans have certainly gotten spoiled over the years but the truth is that, with the exception of a handful of guys (which the Jets had the fortune of having 2 of for an extended period of time), the CB play out there is pretty damn bad.  Wilson is certainly a disappointment for his draft position, but he's also not as immeasurably bad as some view him to be.  When he (most likely) leaves the Jets next offseason, he may not be cashing in big time, but he'll certainly have teams interested and is going to find himself with a new nickel, if not #2, job somewhere in this league without question.

 

The kid certainly has his bad moments and has them more often than you'd like, but if you consider how much he's played, particularly last year, they're not nearly as much as you'd think based on many of these evaluations .  Call me crazy, but I'm going to go out on a limb that JN hasn't figured out the secret to 100% guaranteed success against the Jets defense before any of the league's OCs or QBs could.  It's not even that he's particularly great, it's just that when it comes to a #3 CB, you can do, and many teams have done, a lot worse.


Edited by Bleedin Green, 27 August 2013 - 08:34 AM.

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#55 JiF

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 08:41 AM

I've come to realize that I think the issue isn't people's evaluation of Wilson's CB play as much as it is their evaluation of the CB play throughout the NFL.  Jets fans have certainly gotten spoiled over the years but the truth is that, with the exception of a handful of guys (which the Jets had the fortune of having 2 of for an extended period of time), the CB play out there is pretty damn bad.  Wilson is certainly a disappointment for his draft position, but he's also not as immeasurably bad as some view him to be.  When he (most likely) leaves the Jets next offseason, he may not be cashing in big time, but he'll certainly have teams interested and is going to find himself with a new nickel, if not #2, job somewhere in this league without question.

 

The kid certainly has his bad moments and has them more often than you'd like, but if you consider how much he's played, particularly last year, they're not nearly as much as you'd think based on many of these evaluations .  Call me crazy, but I'm going to go out on a limb that JN hasn't figured out the secret to 100% guaranteed success against the Jets defense before any of the league's OCs or QBs could.  It's not even that he's particularly great, it's just that when it comes to a #3 CB, you can do, and many teams have done, a lot worse.

 

That's a very judicial way of putting it.

 

I think he's easily a #2 on most squads and I bet if we really searched around the league we could probably find a place where he might even be a #1. For example, he'd probably be the Jags #1 CB.  Not saying much, but just sayin.

 

I've done this exercise before in another thread, but like usual, it gets ignored.  But go look around the league at CB's selected 5 spots in front of him to 5 spots in back of him from the last 5 years, there's maybe 2 identifiable names that you could argue are good players/better than Wilson.

 

I even mentioned it in this thread, McCourty, who was taken before him, got bitch slapped in the SB by Nicks...and not to the tune of 1 reception like Wilson the other night.  Like truly, bitch slapped. 


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#56 #27TheDominator

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:56 AM

Anyone who was at the game or paid close attention on the TV coverage would have seen Kyle Wilson exposed as a bad CB.

 

1) He never turned his head around on plays.

2) He lacked closing speed.

3) He grabbed the WR when he was beat.

4) Committed 3 PI penalties.

 

If you are the Opposing QB and you see Wilson on the Outside....have your WR run a Fly or Streak and let it rip...one of three things will happen

 

1) You will get a PI against Wilson for considerable yardage.

2) You will gain considerable yardage through a completion.

3) You will overthrow your target and Kyle will clap like he caused the overthrow.

 

Kyle Wilson is a bad cover corner on the outside. He is marginally ok on the slot receivers. I still say Isiah Trufant is a better slot CB than Kyle. So that leaves Kyle as a Dime back or Special teamer.

 

LL

 

 

Wow.  I guess #3 happened a whole bunch last year because I don't remember teams throwing for much yardage or all these PI calls either.  I think the coverages will switch up when the season starts and even though his ball awareness isn't the best, he's fine.  You guys are spoiled by Revis and Cro.  

 

I agree that Trufant is very good in the slot, but he is also a fidget and would probably be destroyed by guys like Nicks. Trufant is also coming off a significant knee injury, so it remains to be seen if he will be the same.  


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#57 HessStation

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:03 AM

I never thought so and I think that Rex's display was one reason I started to doubt his ability to keep the good times rolling. Lots of people had third round grades on Wilson, yet Rex acted like we 'stole' Deion Sanders. Mistakes like Wilson in the draft have been what kept the Jets from progressing after two positive years.


Who were the "lots of people"?
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#58 Greenseed4

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:23 AM

Kyle Wilson's stats from Saturday night:

 

-Kickoff return for 21 yards.  However, he was 7-deep in the endzone, so got our would-be touch back to the 14 yard line.

-Got credit for a tackle on kickoff coverage. 

-(8:22) pass interference (H.Nicks) for 12 yards.

-(11:17)gave up reception (R.Randle) for 9 yards.

-(3:10) pass interference (H.Nicks) for 23 yards.

-(2:54) pass interference (H. Nicks) for 34 yards.  penalty declined because Nicks one-handed it. 


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#59 Klecko73isGod

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:02 PM

I've come to realize that I think the issue isn't people's evaluation of Wilson's CB play as much as it is their evaluation of the CB play throughout the NFL.  Jets fans have certainly gotten spoiled over the years but the truth is that, with the exception of a handful of guys (which the Jets had the fortune of having 2 of for an extended period of time), the CB play out there is pretty damn bad.  Wilson is certainly a disappointment for his draft position, but he's also not as immeasurably bad as some view him to be.  When he (most likely) leaves the Jets next offseason, he may not be cashing in big time, but he'll certainly have teams interested and is going to find himself with a new nickel, if not #2, job somewhere in this league without question.

 

The kid certainly has his bad moments and has them more often than you'd like, but if you consider how much he's played, particularly last year, they're not nearly as much as you'd think based on many of these evaluations .  Call me crazy, but I'm going to go out on a limb that JN hasn't figured out the secret to 100% guaranteed success against the Jets defense before any of the league's OCs or QBs could.  It's not even that he's particularly great, it's just that when it comes to a #3 CB, you can do, and many teams have done, a lot worse.

 

I also think some people focus on the one play they see in a game where a mistake is made, the announcers talk about, maybe show a replay and use the telestrater, maybe show multiple angles. Then based on that, they assume that player does that all the time.

 

Because, let's face it, how often does the average fan focus on a single QB in coverage. Hell, I'd say the camera only catches a particular non-QB player for about 25% of his snaps. 

 

But, that's the play they saw so Kyle Wilson must do that ALL the time. 


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#60 Klecko73isGod

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:05 PM

Kyle Wilson's stats from Saturday night:

 

-Kickoff return for 21 yards.  However, he was 7-deep in the endzone, so got our would-be touch back to the 14 yard line.

-Got credit for a tackle on kickoff coverage. 

-(8:22) pass interference (H.Nicks) for 12 yards.

-(11:17)gave up reception (R.Randle) for 9 yards.

-(3:10) pass interference (H.Nicks) for 23 yards.

-(2:54) pass interference (H. Nicks) for 34 yards.  penalty declined because Nicks one-handed it. 

 

 

Those aren't stats. Those are the results of 7 of the probably 35 or so plays Kyle Wilson was on the field for Saturday night. 


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#61 kelticwizard

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:11 PM

..But, that's the play they saw so Kyle Wilson must do that ALL the time. 

 

Not just one play, no.

 

We've seen Wilson's I'm-keeping-up-with-him-anything-else-is-a-bonus act before.


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#62 kelticwizard

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:18 PM

It's not like Wilson got killed by Nicks, it just looked like Wilson really couldn't cover him.  Granted that Nicks is a very good receiver.

 

Just comparing measurables-not the only thing to consider of course-Wilson is both somewhat faster, more agile, (3 cone drill), and not that much smaller than Nicks.  Most CBs are around 175lbs or so.

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#63 Greenseed4

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:46 PM

Those aren't stats. Those are the results of 7 of the probably 35 or so plays Kyle Wilson was on the field for Saturday night. 

 

Correct.  Notable plays.  As recorded by the NFL.  The other 28 (or so) plays the action was either away from him, or brought to him and he didn't record a measurable statistic. 


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#64 #27TheDominator

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 02:00 PM

For the most part, Jets fans do not comprehend corner play.  We have great CBs. Have been watched one of the GOAT.  On the other side, every T0m, Dick and Aaron Ross looks like a superstar compared to our sh*tty WRs with weak ass QBs throwing to them.  Kyle WIlson isn't great, but there aren't that many great CBs. sh*t, look at Aso.  He looks like crap and was a regular All-Pro.


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#65 Klecko73isGod

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 02:41 PM

Correct.  Notable plays.  As recorded by the NFL.  The other 28 (or so) plays the action was either away from him, or brought to him and he didn't record a measurable statistic. 

 

You know what's not a measurable statistic? The times a QB doesn't throw in a CB's direction because he's got his man covered. Just sayin'.


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