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The QB eye test

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I like Geno and I really want him to be good, but if he's not, he'll end up he costing the franchise roughly what Kellen Clemens did. nbd

Some of you are nuts, btw. The safety was indefensible.

 

 Depends.  KC was never talked about much, nobody cared, I don't think anybody thought he was 'the savior' and then they went all out for Favre.   He barely played his rookie year, he was thrown into the mix his second season, but more because Chad was Chad and Chad had the same injury issues he always had.   And after that, Favre came into the picture.

 

  People want Geno Smith to start day one.   Nobody expected KC to start in his third year in the NFL.   Huge difference.  So yeah KC came and went and nobody cared, but the guy was never really talked about outside a few Jets fans who got tired of injury prone noodle arm Chad.   Whereas the media is already all over Geno and many if not most fans want Geno to start ASAP.    If Geno winds up playing the next couple of seasons and isnt' any good,  it's far different than a guy who essentially was never even the starter for most of his Jets career.

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the eye test is a real thing, for example Sheldon Richardson is a player who passes the eye test. As soon as you see him on the field you know he's special. 

 

Geno vs Mark we will look back at this as herpes vs crabs. Two bad options. 

Go with the crabs

 

Herpes are forever

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maybe im just not following the nfl closely cause im at school but what if geno played like a rookie can someone tell me what other rookie played as bad as him and is expected to start?

 

This does not fall on G Smith thou, this falls on the New York Jets for not having another option in case Geno was not ready, and one of the guys in front of him got hurt.  I don't care thou, because if Smith isn't ready, and doesn't improve while on the job, then he isn't worth dog sh*t IMO, so I think it is best that he get thrown to the wolves, the days of developing starting QB's are over unfortunatley, their just isn't enough decent QB's to keep these new kids holding clip boards for a year, or 2.

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This does not fall on G Smith thou, this falls on the New York Jets for not having another option in case Geno was not ready, and one of the guys in front of him got hurt.  I don't care thou, because if Smith isn't ready, and doesn't improve while on the job, then he isn't worth dog sh*t IMO, so I think it is best that he get thrown to the wolves, the days of developing starting QB's are over unfortunatley, their just isn't enough decent QB's to keep these new kids holding clip boards for a year, or 2.

 

i agree to a certain extent

 

If geno is our option throw him out there but i thought sanchez should be starting since hes been playing better (best player plays). If he is really hurt then go go geno and hope lets see if he sinks or swims

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This does not fall on G Smith thou, this falls on the New York Jets for not having another option in case Geno was not ready, and one of the guys in front of him got hurt.   

 

yeah like david garrard. 

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These are the Jets. He'll get thrown.

 

Thats just another reason why I would like to see Matt Simms. He has had a year of NFL under his belt. This is the Jets though. They will cut him and he will win multiple super bowls with the Pats.

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Thats just another reason why I would like to see Matt Simms. He has had a year of NFL under his belt. This is the Jets though. They will cut him and he will win multiple super bowls with the Pats.

GTFOH Chris Simms, Matt Sims, Sy Syms. None of them are winning a Super Bowl.

Edited by Gastineau Lives

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I disagree. There a million guys who have a strong arm and throw a nice spiral. They are not all NFL QB's. There is a certain look to an NFL QB, the way they drop back, the way they survey the field, the way they deliver the ball, the way they act, I did not see that from Geno. I could be dead wrong, and hope I am, but that is just what I observed.

 

I'm not ragging on your eye test.  I can understand how Geno might look that way to you.  In the end you may be proven right, but I think it's awfully early to make that assessment of him.  I have a few questions for you and a few points that I hope you'll consider.

 

One, you do realize that around 90-95% of the snaps took in college were in the shotgun, don't you?  Thus he never had to worry about footwork, dropping back and/or surveying the field while he was focusing on his number of steps and their being in the right order.  In addition, that's made more complex because the WCO is such a timing based system.  If you read that article the other day that Tom posted it talked about this very kind of thing and how tricky that can be for a lot of QBs who aren't used to it.  It's one thing to practice focusing on taking the correct number of steps, looking for your receiver and throwing the ball knowing you won't get hit.  It's quite another in the pressure of a real game when you know the opposing defense is looking to take your head off.

 

Two, do you know that the offense Geno played in at WVU is akin to sandlot football?  There were four basic plays and Geno would call the play at the LOS.  A lot of their passes were of the shorter variety.  The WCO is a very complex system and the Jets use a number of different formations and wrinkles, with more routes.  Trying to remember all that at NFL speed, while not feeling natural and comfortable trying to spot your receivers while focusing on the right footwork, are enough to make anyone look bad at first, particularly at NFL speed.

 

Three, NFL defenses are a lot more complex, they disguise coverages more, and the players are bigger, faster, stronger and more skilled.  That in itself is an adjustment for all rookies.  Factor in having to change the basic fundamentals of the position of how he gets the ball on the snap, how and when he has to throw it, and remembering where all the offensive players are supposed to be is enough to make anyone struggle.

 

We know that Geno is VERY accurate and rarely threw interceptions in college.  I think that once he gets comfortable with his fundamentals, really knows the offense, then his confidence will be higher, he'll be more relaxed and able to let his talent take over.  He's still having to think too much.  This kind of struggles and play is the exact kind of thing that can erode his confidence.  It's why a lot of player fail.  They feel uncomfortable when trying to learn/master the new techniques or fundamentals they are taught, and rather than being patient and working harder and harder, many revert back to their old way of playing so they can feel more comfortable, yet that old way of playing won't work in the NFL.

 

Lee and Mornhinweg (and Idzik!) need to be patient with Geno.  Baby steps.  They need to have him focus on the fundamentals only until those are solidly ingrained and come naturally to him.  Then they can work with him on reading Ds, looking off receivers, etc.  Then once he can consistently do that in practice without any hiccups, then they can think about starting him.

 

That's why I've steadfastly maintained that Geno is not ready and shouldn't be forced onto the field too early.  He needs time for these new techniques to become ingrained into his muscle memory so that they feel natural and ARE natural, and he doesn't have to think about them.  Then he's free to focus on reading the D.

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 You know who passed the "eye test"?   Browning Nagle.    Dude just looked like he was born to play QB in the NFL....now he's passing the eye test as a realtor.  

 

You know who didn't pass the "eye test"?   Russell Wilson...which is why he was a 3rd rd pick.   How about Tom Brady?   Almost wasn't even drafted at all.   

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 You know who passed the "eye test"?   Browning Nagle.    Dude just looked like he was born to play QB in the NFL....now he's passing the eye test as a realtor.  

 

You know who didn't pass the "eye test"?   Russell Wilson...which is why he was a 3rd rd pick.   How about Tom Brady?   Almost wasn't even drafted at all.   

No, don't you see, everybody is a ******* scout with an innate ability to tell greatness when they see it. In HD.

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 You know who didn't pass the "eye test"?   Russell Wilson...which is why he was a 3rd rd pick.   How about Tom Brady?   Almost wasn't even drafted at all.   

 

the eye test before they play and the eye test during their play are two vastly different tests. this thread is about what we just saw. Not what we wished we saw. 

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No, don't you see, everybody is a ******* scout with an innate ability to tell greatness when they see it. In HD.

 

lol THIS.

 

 

Everyone needs to take a deep breath.  Geno looked like dog sh*t in his first preaseason start.  So what?  I remember Mark Sanchez looking great in week 1 of the 2009 regular season.  Give it a few weeks and then we can all collectively rush to judgement and be wrong.

 

The nice thing is that the team isn't married to Geno.  He's going to get his chance sooner or later this year, and at the end of the season Idzik can decide whether he really is the future or if he needs to pick another QB.

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These are the Jets. He'll get thrown.

 

Of course he will, if for no other reason than Idzik supposedly wants him to.  If it is true that Idzik has been forcing the issue with Geno, then I will lose a lot of respect for him and the job he's done so far.  I know that will make him cry.

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You know who passed the "eye test"? Browning Nagle. Dude just looked like he was born to play QB in the NFL....now he's passing the eye test as a realtor.

You know who didn't pass the "eye test"? Russell Wilson...which is why he was a 3rd rd pick. How about Tom Brady? Almost wasn't even drafted at all.

But Brady was lucky enough to work out in a certain SF gym that Barry Bonds worked out in after his rookie season, and the rest is history!

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GTFOH Chris Simms, Matt Sims, Sy Syms. None of them are winning a Super Bowl.

 

Chris Simms, not so much - but Phil did. And tbh Phil is more similar to Matt, than Chris is.

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To be honest, I can't really tell. I've never seen Phil play third stringers.

 

You do know that Simms was a second string QB early in his career, right? And that his stats in college were low and terrible? There are a lot of similarities, not that it means they will have the same careers.

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I'm not ragging on your eye test.  I can understand how Geno might look that way to you.  In the end you may be proven right, but I think it's awfully early to make that assessment of him.  I have a few questions for you and a few points that I hope you'll consider.

 

One, you do realize that around 90-95% of the snaps took in college were in the shotgun, don't you?  Thus he never had to worry about footwork, dropping back and/or surveying the field while he was focusing on his number of steps and their being in the right order.  In addition, that's made more complex because the WCO is such a timing based system.  If you read that article the other day that Tom posted it talked about this very kind of thing and how tricky that can be for a lot of QBs who aren't used to it.  It's one thing to practice focusing on taking the correct number of steps, looking for your receiver and throwing the ball knowing you won't get hit.  It's quite another in the pressure of a real game when you know the opposing defense is looking to take your head off.

 

Two, do you know that the offense Geno played in at WVU is akin to sandlot football?  There were four basic plays and Geno would call the play at the LOS.  A lot of their passes were of the shorter variety.  The WCO is a very complex system and the Jets use a number of different formations and wrinkles, with more routes.  Trying to remember all that at NFL speed, while not feeling natural and comfortable trying to spot your receivers while focusing on the right footwork, are enough to make anyone look bad at first, particularly at NFL speed.

 

Three, NFL defenses are a lot more complex, they disguise coverages more, and the players are bigger, faster, stronger and more skilled.  That in itself is an adjustment for all rookies.  Factor in having to change the basic fundamentals of the position of how he gets the ball on the snap, how and when he has to throw it, and remembering where all the offensive players are supposed to be is enough to make anyone struggle.

 

We know that Geno is VERY accurate and rarely threw interceptions in college.  I think that once he gets comfortable with his fundamentals, really knows the offense, then his confidence will be higher, he'll be more relaxed and able to let his talent take over.  He's still having to think too much.  This kind of struggles and play is the exact kind of thing that can erode his confidence.  It's why a lot of player fail.  They feel uncomfortable when trying to learn/master the new techniques or fundamentals they are taught, and rather than being patient and working harder and harder, many revert back to their old way of playing so they can feel more comfortable, yet that old way of playing won't work in the NFL.

 

Lee and Mornhinweg (and Idzik!) need to be patient with Geno.  Baby steps.  They need to have him focus on the fundamentals only until those are solidly ingrained and come naturally to him.  Then they can work with him on reading Ds, looking off receivers, etc.  Then once he can consistently do that in practice without any hiccups, then they can think about starting him.

 

That's why I've steadfastly maintained that Geno is not ready and shouldn't be forced onto the field too early.  He needs time for these new techniques to become ingrained into his muscle memory so that they feel natural and ARE natural, and he doesn't have to think about them.  Then he's free to focus on reading the D.

I have to agree here. Eli didn't start right away and came on and made some mistakes but got better. Give Sanchez until the bye and if things are going south let Geno take over. 

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I posted that sanchez stares down receivers, feels pressure that isn't there, has no instincts and can't extend plays.

 

someone who watched geno a lot said geno is the same player

 

thats kinda what I saw sat night

 

kinda scary

 

not to mention his fundementals suck as well. Strong arm means nothing if you can't step into the throw even when you have time. That's a huge concern and it tells me hes playing scared

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not to mention his fundementals suck as well. Strong arm means nothing if you can't step into the throw even when you have time. That's a huge concern and it tells me hes playing scared

 

Good call. He does drift back when he throws. Thats why the ball sails on him at times.

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You do know that Simms was a second string QB early in his career, right? And that his stats in college were low and terrible? There are a lot of similarities, not that it means they will have the same careers.

Yes, I remember it well, actually. He was a backup to Scott Bruner. I just don't know how, beyond the last name, and well, the blonde, they are similar. You're comparing one QB from one era who has won Super Bowls and had a Hall of Fame career to another who has played against third stringers in preseason, no matter what the last name is.

 

I doubt you, or anyone, ever MENTIONED Matt Simms before he played this preseason or even knew he was alive.

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You do know that Simms was a second string QB early in his career, right? And that his stats in college were low and terrible? There are a lot of similarities, not that it means they will have the same careers.

 

 

Yes, I remember it well, actually. He was a backup to Scott Bruner. I just don't know how, beyond the last name, and well, the blonde, they are similar. You're comparing one QB from one era who has won Super Bowls and had a Hall of Fame career to another who has played against third stringers in preseason, no matter what the last name is.

 

I doubt you, or anyone, ever MENTIONED Matt Simms before he played this preseason or even knew he was alive.

 

 

Actually he wasn't.  Simms was starting before the midpoint of his rookie year.  He took over for Pisarcik and was the starter for 3 years.  He sucked.  The Jets demolished his knee in the preseason one year and the following year when he came back Parcells benched him for Brunner. If you want to talk about failing the eye test, Simms looked like a broken man when he first came up.  When Brunner got hurt, Parcells actually went to Rutledge over Simms.  Simms didn't have a winning record and "get it" until he was 30 years old.

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Actually he wasn't.  Simms was starting before the midpoint of his rookie year.  He took over for Pisarcik and was the starter for 3 years.  He sucked.  The Jets demolished his knee in the preseason one year and the following year when he came back Parcells benched him for Brunner. If you want to talk about failing the eye test, Simms looked like a broken man when he first came up.  When Brunner got hurt, Parcells actually went to Rutledge over Simms.  Simms didn't have a winning record and "get it" until he was 30 years old.

Wow, I didn't know that. All I remember was starting to watch football and Scott Brunner being the Giants QB and Simms was the backup.

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