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Cimini Monday recap: What We Learned


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40 replies to this topic

#26 JoeKlecko

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:06 AM

He bounced back vs. the Giants.  He was all over the field.  Ellis didnt look great vs. the Lions either.  So, if anything, its nice to see Harrison turn it around and really elevate his level of play.

 

If Harrison is actually a player, the flexibility that Rex will have with this DL is going to be fun to watch.

 

Yes he did.  Cimini made it sound like Harrison had been great in every preseason game and was blowing Ellis away.  I was just making the point that that was not true.


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#27 JoeKlecko

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:24 AM

Rex had no power in this qb situation. John Idzik told the media two months ago he'd have the final say on QB issues. all of this BS about giving Geno a special extra chance to win the job is all Idzik. If it was up to Rex he'd have declared Mark the starter 2 weeks ago. Because despite everyone's hopes to the contrary, Mark earned it in OTA, camp and the games. And the giants game showed us all why Geno is actually worse than Mark right now. Anyone who is holding out hope for Geno to be better than Mark this year either didn't see the game or is living in denial. 

 

the blunder of putting in Mark is a Head coach trying to give Mark the reps he should have had behind the first team. If Rex made a mistake it wasn't in putting Mark in late. It was not putting his foot down and putting Mark in with the first team, where he belonged.

 

Bit, bit, bit...c'mon guy you know that isn't accurate.  He said he'd have a voice or maybe a good amount of input,but didn't say that he'd have "final say."  He said that it was a collaborative "we" decision.

 

We all know that if it was up to Rex, Geno could have been the second coming of RGIII, Andrew Luck and/or Russell Wilson, and he'd still have named Sanchez the starter at the beginning of OTAs and there would never have been a competition.  That's not wise.  Idzik was trying to guard against that.  He wanted to push Sanchez and have the best QB possible starting.  Sure he has a vested interest in Geno starting, but hopefully he has enough sense to realize that it would be detrimental to both Geno and the team to throw Geno to the wolves if he isn't ready.  The mantra he brought to the team was competition.  That mantra would have been a farce, particularly with Sanchez' past play, if that competition didn't include the QB position.

 

I'm not gonna claim that you have an anti-Idzik agenda, but if not, then imo you aren't thinking clearly for whatever reason.  If it was gonna be a true competition, then they needed to see what Geno could do with the rest of the starters in live preseason game action.  Just because he missed the Jax game shouldn't have meant the competition was over.  If the Jets were expected to challenge for the Lombardi Trophy this season, then that would have been another matter.  In that situation, the competition would have been over the minute Geno got hurt so that Sanchez could have gotten the reps in the final tuneup for the regular season (vs the Giants).  But with this being a rebuilding year and the team having low expectations, "normal" procedures can be set aside.  There was no harm in letting Geno start vs the Giants, and if he showed that he was ready, it could have helped the team a lot.  There was no need for Sanchez to even play vs the Giants.  The few snaps he would have gotten would make little real difference in his or the team's preparation for the season.  He has timing down with the receivers (as much as he's going to with his lack of accuracy and lack of poise in the pocket).  He and most of the offense are used to playing/practicing together, so your comments that Sanchez needed to play vs the Giants are just silly imo.

 

As far as "ordering Rex to play Geno in quarters 1-3" that was to give Geno and the team a fair opportunity, and to give a truer picture of whether Geno was ready to start or not.  In a normal situation you wouldn't want a GM telling the HC who to start or play, but this isn't a "normal" situation.  Rex has clearly shown over the years that he plays his guys regardless of how poorly they play, doesn't hold them accountable, and doesn't give others a chance to play.  It also seems pretty clear that he's not a very good judge of talent, especially on the offensive side.  Idzik's trying to do what's best for the team.  Idzik needs to find out which of the young players are keepers and who can help the team going forward.  If Rex doesn't give them a chance, if he just picks the players he likes and sticks with them,  Idzik wouldn't know what he needs to know to make informed decisions next off season.   
Rex is trying to keep his job (or set himself up for another) and doesn't really care about the team beyond this year.  He has a vested interest in playing the guys that he thinks give him the best chance to win and retain his job.  We also don't know what info Idzik has or what conversations have taken place between then that affect this situation and Idzik's handling of the situation.  There could be very compelling reasons for Idzik to have made the decisions he has.


Edited by JoeKlecko, 27 August 2013 - 11:32 AM.

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#28 KSJets

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:26 AM

Did you seriously just quote the comment from a sports writer?  Holy crap.

 

At least he isn't comparing Sanchez' pro stats to Geno's in college.  Who does that?


Edited by KSJets, 27 August 2013 - 11:32 AM.

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#29 bitonti

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:45 AM

Bit, bit, bit...c'mon guy you know that isn't accurate.  He said he'd have a voice or maybe a good amount of input,but didn't say that he'd have "final say."  He said that it was a collaborative "we" decision.

 

We all know that if it was up to Rex, Geno could have been the second coming of RGIII, Andrew Luck and/or Russell Wilson, and he'd still have named Sanchez the starter at the beginning of OTAs and there would never have been a competition.  That's not wise.  Idzik was trying to guard against that.  He wanted to push Sanchez and have the best QB possible starting.  Sure he has a vested interest in Geno starting, but hopefully he has enough sense to realize that it would be detrimental to both Geno and the team to throw Geno to the wolves if he isn't ready.  The mantra he brought to the team was competition.  That mantra would have been a farce, particularly with Sanchez' past play, if that competition didn't include the QB position.

 

I'm not gonna claim that you have an anti-Idzik agenda, but if not, then imo you aren't thinking clearly for whatever reason.  If it was gonna be a true competition, then they needed to see what Geno could do with the rest of the starters in live preseason game action.  Just because he missed the Jax game shouldn't have meant the competition was over.  If the Jets were expected to challenge for the Lombardi Trophy this season, then that would have been another matter.  In that situation, the competition would have been over the minute Geno got hurt so that Sanchez could have gotten the reps in the final tuneup for the regular season (vs the Giants).  But with this being a rebuilding year and the team having low expectations, "normal" procedures can be set aside.  There was no harm in letting Geno start vs the Giants, and if he showed that he was ready, it could have helped the team a lot.  There was no need for Sanchez to even play vs the Giants.  The few snaps he would have gotten would make little real difference in his or the team's preparation for the season.  He has timing down with the receivers (as much as he's going to with his lack of accuracy and lack of poise in the pocket).  He and most of the offense are used to playing/practicing together, so your comments that Sanchez needed to play vs the Giants are just silly imo.

 

As far as "ordering Rex to play Geno in quarters 1-3" that was to give Geno and the team a fair opportunity, and to give a truer picture of whether Geno was ready to start or not.  In a normal situation you wouldn't want a GM telling the HC who to start or play, but this isn't a "normal" situation.  Rex has clearly shown over the years that he plays his guys regardless of how poorly they play, doesn't hold them accountable, and doesn't give others a chance to play.  It also seems pretty clear that he's not a very good judge of talent, especially on the offensive side.  Idzik's trying to do what's best for the team.  Idzik needs to find out which of the young players are keepers and who can help the team going forward.  If Rex doesn't give them a chance, if he just picks the players he likes and sticks with them,  Idzik wouldn't know what he needs to know to make informed decisions next off season.   
Rex is trying to keep his job (or set himself up for another) and doesn't really care about the team beyond this year.  He has a vested interest in playing the guys that he thinks give him the best chance to win and retain his job.  We also don't know what info Idzik has or what conversations have taken place between then that affect this situation and Idzik's handling of the situation.  There could be very compelling reasons for Idzik to have made the decisions he has.

 

if the next head coach is an offensive mind, and Idzik drafts a safety in round 2, is it up to the coach or Idzik whether the draft pick starts?  this is an important question, where are the bounds?

 

you say it's ok for Idzik to overstep his bounds because Rex sucks. but will do it again with a new coach? 

 

Anytime a HC or GM tries to do the other's job is a mess. Usually it's guys like Andy Reid or Mike Shanahan running the GM chair from the headset. But it can go the other way, and it's usually an meddlesome owner/GM like Jerry Jones. What Idzik is doing now with this Geno situation isn't much different. 


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#30 JoeKlecko

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:25 PM

if the next head coach is an offensive mind, and Idzik drafts a safety in round 2, is it up to the coach or Idzik whether the draft pick starts?  this is an important question, where are the bounds?

 

you say it's ok for Idzik to overstep his bounds because Rex sucks. but will do it again with a new coach? 

 

Anytime a HC or GM tries to do the other's job is a mess. Usually it's guys like Andy Reid or Mike Shanahan running the GM chair from the headset. But it can go the other way, and it's usually an meddlesome owner/GM like Jerry Jones. What Idzik is doing now with this Geno situation isn't much different. 

 

To begin with, step off the ledge.  You seem so overwrought.

 

Secondly, NONE of us knows what goes on behind the scenes with NFL teams.  We don't know how much input most HCs have into the draft or how much input GMs have into who starts or makes the roster.  That could vary wildly/widely from team-to-team depending upon the experience and power of the GM and/or HC and the success (or lack thereof) that each has had.  There may be many teams where the GM has had a strong say in who the starting QB should be.  QB is the most important position on the team.  GMs have a vested interest in seeing the QBs they pick succeed.  We know that both Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder had a LOT of input in whom the team drafted, traded for, signed as FAs and who started.  Jones has at least won a couple of SBs (or at least one) and had some success.  Snyder not so much.  No two situations are alike, and there's not NFL guidebook that all teams are forced to adhere to with regard to position descriptions and who does what.

 

There is no reason to expect that with a new HC that Idzik hand picked and didn't have forced upon him (a HC that I might add has a track record of having and playing favorites and not holding them accountable when they suck) that he would tell that HC who to start.  This is a unique and awkward situation.  I think that if Idzik had had his way, Rex wouldn't be the HC of the team now.  The only scenario in which I could see him choosing to keep Rex this year was if he didn't think he'd be able to get who he wanted this year either due to contractual issues or due to the lousy QB situation and no cap space.  He may have decided it was best to just make do the best he could this year with Rex while he's rebuilding the roster and changing the atmosphere, then bring in someone he trusts and respects next season.

 

The only scenarios that I could see where Idzik's having input into who starts for the Jets at QB this year being a problem are as follows:

 

1) Idzik is a control freak on the order of Mangini and we just don't know it yet.  He thus continually tells his HC who to start. (I don't see that happening.)

2) Head coaching candidates next season fear that Idzik will interfere with their decisions and decline to be interviewed for the Jets' HC opening.

3) He forces them to start Geno because he knows that Sanchez sucks, that the fanbase will rebel if Sanchez starts, and because he's impatient.  He could allow his desires to replace Sanchez and see Geno succeed to overwhelm what his eyes and common sense tell him...i.e., that Geno isn't ready and it would be detrimental to him and his future to throw him to the wolves now.

 

If any of those things happen, then I'll agree with you, but unless or until they do, he's "innocent until proven guilty" and gets the benefit of the doubt.


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#31 flgreen

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:06 PM

He bounced back vs. the Giants.  He was all over the field.  Ellis didnt look great vs. the Lions either.  So, if anything, its nice to see Harrison turn it around and really elevate his level of play.

 

If Harrison is actually a player, the flexibility that Rex will have with this DL is going to be fun to watch.

 

Speaking of which, has anyone had an Antonio Garay sighting?   This guy was all kinds of hyped when the Jets first signed him.  I think he has one tackle in 3 games. 


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#32 bitonti

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:11 PM

 

 

The only scenarios that I could see where Idzik's having input into who starts for the Jets at QB this year being a problem are as follows:

 

1) Idzik is a control freak on the order of Mangini and we just don't know it yet.  He thus continually tells his HC who to start. (I don't see that happening.)

2) Head coaching candidates next season fear that Idzik will interfere with their decisions and decline to be interviewed for the Jets' HC opening.

3) He forces them to start Geno because he knows that Sanchez sucks, that the fanbase will rebel if Sanchez starts, and because he's impatient.  He could allow his desires to replace Sanchez and see Geno succeed to overwhelm what his eyes and common sense tell him...i.e., that Geno isn't ready and it would be detrimental to him and his future to throw him to the wolves now.

 

If any of those things happen, then I'll agree with you, but unless or until they do, he's "innocent until proven guilty" and gets the benefit of the doubt.

 

ill bookmark this thread then. 2 already is in progress.

 

you all are giving this guy too much benefit of doubt. He signed about 10 free agents, half of which are absolute trash. Oh don't worry there's gonna be more cap space next year and he will do a better job. He forced Rex to play Geno, oh don't worry the next guy will be smarter than Rex and he won't have to interfere as much. We don't have to wait until next year to evaluate idzik. We can just look at highlights of Dewan Landry choking on David Wilson's dust. Oh don't worry there will be more cap space next year so Idzik will sign a safety who can run faster than 4.8. the only sure good thing Idzik so far has done is draft Sheldon Richardson. Almost all his other moves have washed out. 


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#33 Integrity28

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:11 PM

So, bitonit is trolling this thread, plus the other thread he started with this worm poo? 

 

Yowzaaa ... 


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#34 bitonti

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:12 PM

Speaking of which, has anyone had an Antonio Garay sighting?   This guy was all kinds of hyped when the Jets first signed him.  I think he has one tackle in 3 games. 

 

 

sorry we can't evaluate Idzik until Rex is fired and Geno learns the dimensions of an endzone. It wouldn't be fair. 


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#35 flgreen

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:15 PM

sorry we can't evaluate Idzik until Rex is fired and Geno learns the dimensions of an endzone. It wouldn't be fair. 

 

 

And this has to do with Antonio Garay, How?

 

 

Edit:  Oh never mind I see what you were doing.  ...................................................I think


Edited by flgreen, 27 August 2013 - 01:16 PM.

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#36 bitonti

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:16 PM

And this has to do with Antonio Garay, How?

 

who is this Garay person? Is he on the roster?


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#37 Bleedin Green

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:37 PM

And this has to do with Antonio Garay, How?

 

 

Edit:  Oh never mind I see what you were doing.  ...................................................I think

 

Being completely unbearable?


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#38 Greenseed4

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:52 PM

Speaking of which, has anyone had an Antonio Garay sighting?   This guy was all kinds of hyped when the Jets first signed him.  I think he has one tackle in 3 games. 

 

Yeah, he got tackled by the left OG late in the game.  Drew the penalty.  Looks fast against 3rd stringers. 


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#39 flgreen

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 02:18 PM

Never mind


Edited by flgreen, 27 August 2013 - 02:18 PM.

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#40 Big Blocker

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 04:07 PM

Ftr I do not think that Ryan was committed to Sanchez.  He may be a bit of a nut, but he's not crazy.  If he wants to come back next year he will play the best Qb he has. 

 

Conspiracy theorists might have a point if Smith has so far shown much.  But he hasn't. 

 

This is frankly a sh*te storm, since we know Sanchez is awful and other than maybe Marty helping him a bit here and there is not lkely to be materially better than last year.  Does that mean putting Smith in there right now is the right move?  No.

 

Going to be a rough season, i fear...


Edited by Big Blocker, 27 August 2013 - 04:08 PM.

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#41 Big Blocker

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 04:10 PM

Ftr  I meant Rex has not been committed to Sanchez this off season.  Yea he was way too much at times in the past.  I don't think he's that much of an idiot to be so now.  To the contrary I think he put Sanchez in there in hopes Sanchez could show he definintely clearly beyond question should start against TB, to give Rex cover for the decision that was otherwise going to be made anyway until Sanchez got hurt.

 

It backfired on him, but Smith is not ready anyway. 


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