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NFL.com: Jets 3rd best rookie class


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#1 bitonti

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 08:49 PM


http://www.nfl.com/n...ins-among-least

 

from Gil Brandt

 

3) New York Jets

 

The Jets' had a very, very good draft, highlighted by defensive tackle Sheldon Richardson (first round, 13th overall). With his quickness, tenacity and athletic ability, the Missouri product looks just like Warren Sapp. In eight games (seven starts), Richardson has 37 tackles, 2.5 sacks and a forced fumble. And, of course, there's quarterback Geno Smith(second round, 39th overall). Yes, he's been inconsistent, but the bottom line is, he's performing better than anyone expected. Anytime you can get a viable starting quarterback in the second round, it's a good draft, even if your first pick -- cornerback Dee Milliner, taken ninth overall -- is struggling.

New York also snapped up a couple of good complementary players in guard Brian Winters (third round, 72nd overall) and Tommy Bohanon (seventh round, 215th overall). Winters will be a good pass protector for the Jets for many years, while Bohanon has shown himself to be a good blocker and receiver.

 

interesting he mentions Tyrann "Honey Badger" Mathieu out in Arizona. the only reason that pick worked was cause Patrick Peterson is one of the few humans on earth HB respects. one of the broadcast teams mentioned how PP7 recruited HB to LSU. Not sure Honey Badger performs without that sort of guy riding him. the draft is about a match between player and team sometimes. guys need to be put in the right situation, i don't think it's fair to assume that if the Jets had drafted so and so he'd have the same career. Another classic example is Ed Reed showing up to Ray Lewis' Baltimore Ravens. for many years JEts fans bemoaned the Bryan Thomas pick but I have to believe that Ed Reed in Herman Edwards NYJ cover who defense is a different career for that particular player. 


Edited by bitonti, 30 October 2013 - 08:50 PM.

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#2 billo83

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 09:36 PM

 

interesting he mentions Tyrann "Honey Badger" Mathieu out in Arizona. the only reason that pick worked was cause Patrick Peterson is one of the few humans on earth HB respects. one of the broadcast teams mentioned how PP7 recruited HB to LSU. Not sure Honey Badger performs without that sort of guy riding him. the draft is about a match between player and team sometimes. guys need to be put in the right situation, i don't think it's fair to assume that if the Jets had drafted so and so he'd have the same career. Another classic example is Ed Reed showing up to Ray Lewis' Baltimore Ravens. for many years JEts fans bemoaned the Bryan Thomas pick but I have to believe that Ed Reed in Herman Edwards NYJ cover who defense is a different career for that particular player. 

 

This is one of the few things you posted I actually agree with :winking0001:

 

Sanchez may even have been able to develop as a serviceable QB if drafted by a team with a competent QB coach and OC. Archie Manning may have been one of the best ever if drafted by someone other than the God awful Saints at the time.


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#3 BroadwayJoe12

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 09:38 PM

 

interesting he mentions Tyrann "Honey Badger" Mathieu out in Arizona. the only reason that pick worked was cause Patrick Peterson is one of the few humans on earth HB respects. one of the broadcast teams mentioned how PP7 recruited HB to LSU. Not sure Honey Badger performs without that sort of guy riding him. the draft is about a match between player and team sometimes. guys need to be put in the right situation, i don't think it's fair to assume that if the Jets had drafted so and so he'd have the same career. Another classic example is Ed Reed showing up to Ray Lewis' Baltimore Ravens. for many years JEts fans bemoaned the Bryan Thomas pick but I have to believe that Ed Reed in Herman Edwards NYJ cover who defense is a different career for that particular player. 

 

 

While I certainly think having PP helps on Arizona, the biggest thing was that Tyrann finally matured and had a wake-up call after being suspended the year.  There were plenty of articles and buzz down around LSU talking about how PP, Landry, Claiborn and then guys on the team like Reid and Minter couldn't even get to him. He wasn't answering phone-calls or returning messages, dude was in a real bad way.  It took almost losing football to get to this kid.  So while I agree that having PP helps, I think anywhere this kid got drafted he'd be on the up and up, but certainly having his mentor there is a bonus.  Ultimately, I agree about the matchups: it's impossible to say if he'd be having the same success here, but personally I think he'd be tailor made for Rex's defense, not that I'm in any way unhappy with our draft.


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#4 Matt39

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 09:51 PM

Honey Badger is a dude that will always be about himself. He'll screw up soon enough. 


Edited by Matt39, 30 October 2013 - 09:52 PM.

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#5 BroadwayJoe12

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 10:00 PM

Honey Badger is a dude that will always be about himself. He'll screw up soon enough. 

 

The kid's matured after realizing what he almost gave up, very similar to Joe Haden. I'd bet Tyrann makes more pro-bowls than the amount of games he misses for off the field transgressions.


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#6 dbatesman

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 10:00 PM

Richardson is unbelievable. We need to keep our fingers crossed that the Competition Committee doesn't make a rule against putting him and Wilkerson on the field at the same time.


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#7 Matt39

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 10:08 PM

The kid's matured after realizing what he almost gave up, very similar to Joe Haden. I'd bet Tyrann makes more pro-bowls than the amount of games he misses for off the field transgressions.

 

He'll probably make pro bowls and screw up. Doubt he's matured. Seems similar to JR.


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#8 BroadwayJoe12

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 10:30 PM

He'll probably make pro bowls and screw up. Doubt he's matured. Seems similar to JR.

 

Ehh, JR is just a whole other kind of stupid, nothing about that kid shows maturity. When Haden got suspended, he "found jesus," as if he was lost apparently, got married and has been a model citizen. Tyrann had that same type of awakening from all accounts and rumors down in NOLA: dude stopped going out, lived by himself, stopped talking to all his friends in the ERAN nation or whatever and finally came to terms with how he was becoming his homicidal father who gave up scholarships to D1 powerhouses because of felony charges. Now, that's not to say a half dozen years go by, these guys get comfortable and maybe f*ck up, but I personally don't feel he's on that same level of stupidity and foolishness that JR's on. 

 

This isn't just me defending an LSU kid either; I was the first person to say stay the hell away from Monty when last year started and that any team who drafted him would be sorry. Houston's finding out the tough way.  I was even very down on Mathieu when he was found to be involved in selling drugs, but the kid seems to have righted himself. 


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#9 Gastineau Lives

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 08:17 AM

Can we stop with the ******* abbreviations?


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#10 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 08:26 AM

Can we stop with the ******* abbreviations?

 

Yeah, I don't know who these guys are unless they're on the Jets or unless they're star veterans on other NFL teams.

 

I'm with GL on this one.


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#11 JiF

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 08:27 AM

Dion Jordan is someone that is a surprise.  Not going to lie, that's the guy I was hoping to fall to the Jets at #9.  Pretty much invisible in that Dolphags defense that is getting worse and worse with each passing game.

 

Based on some comments I've read on this board, the Jets were fools for taking Milliner when Hayden was the best cover corner.  This article is making it seem like he's not doing so hot.  I havent watched too much of the Raiders, so I really dont know.  

 

Its going to be very interesting to see what happens to Seattle over the next few seasons.  I dont know if anyone saw that image on MNF where they basically showed all of Seattle's core is making below 1mil a year and set to hit FA in the next year or two...but with a total swing and miss this offseason, that might be a team that has peaked and is set to regress.


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#12 JiF

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 08:27 AM

Can we stop with the ******* abbreviations?

 

 

Yeah, I don't know who these guys are unless they're on the Jets or unless they're star veterans on other NFL teams.

 

I'm with GL on this one.

 

Stupidest sh*t ever.  What happened to cool nicknames?  Now its initial's and #'s.  No creativity.  


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#13 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 08:54 AM

Dion Jordan is someone that is a surprise.  Not going to lie, that's the guy I was hoping to fall to the Jets at #9.  Pretty much invisible in that Dolphags defense that is getting worse and worse with each passing game.

 

Based on some comments I've read on this board, the Jets were fools for taking Milliner when Hayden was the best cover corner.  This article is making it seem like he's not doing so hot.  I havent watched too much of the Raiders, so I really dont know.  

 

Its going to be very interesting to see what happens to Seattle over the next few seasons.  I dont know if anyone saw that image on MNF where they basically showed all of Seattle's core is making below 1mil a year and set to hit FA in the next year or two...but with a total swing and miss this offseason, that might be a team that has peaked and is set to regress.

 

This is also a lot of the reason Denver is so good (it's not just because they have Peyton Manning).  Credit them with drafting some real talent at receiver (and for being in a position to draft Von Miller #2 overall after the new CBA went into effect).  Von Miller's deal averaged $5M/year.  Even in the 2 backloaded years of his rookie deal his cap # is about $6M per.  When he hits free agency you'll probably be able to put a "1" in front of that number.

 

Tannenbaum signed Santonio Holmes to a contract paying an average of $9M/year.  :bag: Compare that to Denver's top FOUR pass-catchers:

 

Demaryius Thomas = 5 years, $12.2M ($15.5M if he hit every incentive) = maximum avg $3.1M/year

 

Eric Decker = 4 years, $2.5M ($4.8M incl incentives if he hit them all) = maximum avg $1.2M/year

 

Julius Thomas = 4 years $2.4M = $600K/year


Wes Welker = 2 years, $12M = $6M/year

 

So the 4 of these guys combined average $10M/year, and 60% of that is Welker.  That is how a team can afford $19M for Peyton Manning without having to cut Champ Bailey who's making over $11M this year himself.

 

THAT is what drafting well does for a team, and THAT is why you don't keep trading away (or foregoing) draft picks for "sure thing" players making as much as two pro bowlers plus some spare change.  You can do it for a QB and you can do it for a final missing piece.  But you can't build a team that way.

 

And no GM is perfect; they all fork over money for guys they wish they hadn't.  So it isn't just the money he can spend on others.  It's the massive amount of do-over money he gets for swinging and missing elsewhere.  Denver's also paying Tamme & Dreesen $3M/year apiece.  Does Elway care that they're not getting NEAR their money's worth? Not so much when he also hit paydirt on Orange Julius who makes 1/10 what those 2 together count on the cap.

 

Darrelle Revis has a 2013 cap hit equal to Wes Welker + Demaryius Thomas + Eric Decker + Julius Thomas + Jacob Tamme + Joel Dreesen combined.  Oh yeah, and he also cost the #13 overall pick plus next year's high 3rd or 4th rounder.  Impossibly stupid deal for Tampa Bay.


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#14 bitonti

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 09:00 AM

 Based on some comments I've read on this board, the Jets were fools for taking Milliner when Hayden was the best cover corner.   

 

even if that's true, the Jets didn't have a shot at Hayden. he went 3 overall. This is like saying Matt Stafford is better than Mark Sanchez. 


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#15 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 09:07 AM

even if that's true, the Jets didn't have a shot at Hayden. he went 3 overall. This is like saying Matt Stafford is better than Mark Sanchez. 

 

What are you talking about? Hayden went 12th.


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#16 bitonti

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 09:09 AM

What are you talking about? Hayden went 12th.

 

oh yeah the raiders the traded down. my bad. 


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#17 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 09:10 AM

oh yeah the raiders the traded down. my bad. 

 

Wrong as always. :)


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#18 Integrity28

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 09:10 AM

This was the entire goal of this off-season, the rookies.

 

The FA signings aren't part of the long-term vision, outside of the purpose of helping us fill holes for a year until we draft replacements. It seems to me that Idzik is approaching this the right way, and if he keeps the crops of rookies contributing like this, we're going to turn the corner quickly as a franchise.

 

This are looking up.


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#19 Integrity28

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 09:13 AM

This is also a lot of the reason Denver is so good (it's not just because they have Peyton Manning).  Credit them with drafting some real talent at receiver (and for being in a position to draft Von Miller #2 overall after the new CBA went into effect).  Von Miller's deal averaged $5M/year.  Even in the 2 backloaded years of his rookie deal his cap # is about $6M per.  When he hits free agency you'll probably be able to put a "1" in front of that number.

 

Tannenbaum signed Santonio Holmes to a contract paying an average of $9M/year.  :bag: Compare that to Denver's top FOUR pass-catchers:

 

Demaryius Thomas = 5 years, $12.2M ($15.5M if he hit every incentive) = maximum avg $3.1M/year

 

Eric Decker = 4 years, $2.5M ($4.8M incl incentives if he hit them all) = maximum avg $1.2M/year

 

Julius Thomas = 4 years $2.4M = $600K/year


Wes Welker = 2 years, $12M = $6M/year

 

So the 4 of these guys combined average $10M/year, and 60% of that is Welker.  That is how a team can afford $19M for Peyton Manning without having to cut Champ Bailey who's making over $11M this year himself.

 

THAT is what drafting well does for a team, and THAT is why you don't keep trading away (or foregoing) draft picks for "sure thing" players making as much as two pro bowlers plus some spare change.  You can do it for a QB and you can do it for a final missing piece.  But you can't build a team that way.

 

And no GM is perfect; they all fork over money for guys they wish they hadn't.  So it isn't just the money he can spend on others.  It's the massive amount of do-over money he gets for swinging and missing elsewhere.  Denver's also paying Tamme & Dreesen $3M/year apiece.  Does Elway care that they're not getting NEAR their money's worth? Not so much when he also hit paydirt on Orange Julius who makes 1/10 what those 2 together count on the cap.

 

Darrelle Revis has a 2013 cap hit equal to Wes Welker + Demaryius Thomas + Eric Decker + Julius Thomas + Jacob Tamme + Joel Dreesen combined.  Oh yeah, and he also cost the #13 overall pick plus next year's high 3rd or 4th rounder.  Impossibly stupid deal for Tampa Bay.

 

 

Gotta tell ya Sperm, you are easily one of my favorite 2-3 posters. Almost everything you post is logical, and I agree with almost as thought you plucked it right from my cro-magnon brain.

 

Alright, that's enough nicey-nice for today.


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#20 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 09:25 AM

This was the entire goal of this off-season, the rookies.

 

The FA signings aren't part of the long-term vision, outside of the purpose of helping us fill holes for a year until we draft replacements. It seems to me that Idzik is approaching this the right way, and if he keeps the crops of rookies contributing like this, we're going to turn the corner quickly as a franchise.

 

This are looking up.

 

NO. We should have paid Revis to play 1 more year and said f*ck it to the #13 pick and next year's #100 (or #130) pick.

 

Oh yeah, and we don't have Richardson.  Heading into this season, we were either going to keep Revis or Cromartie, but not both.  It is a senseless use of cap space.  We kept Cromartie; he's cheaper, no doubt some personal animosity from the owner with Revis, we could get better compensation for Revis, and he was un-signable for us past the 2013 season (unless we just chose to outbid everyone else in March).  So we were only keeping one, and since Cromartie was willing to restructure - even if it meant getting cut in 2014 - this is the move that Idzik made.

 

This also means that if Milliner is available at #9, we're taking him whether we traded Revis or not.  The player we would have lost out on is Sheldon Richardson, not Dee Milliner.  Plus Milliner may yet become a good player (no matter how horrible he looks so far).


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#21 Matt39

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 09:34 AM

This fantasy roster you guys are counting on...keep dreaming. The Broncos draft good players. We don't.

If the Jets drafted Milliner and ha decided to keep Revis Idzik should have been fired on the spot.
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#22 Integrity28

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 09:43 AM

NO. We should have paid Revis to play 1 more year and said f*ck it to the #13 pick and next year's #100 (or #130) pick.

 

Oh yeah, and we don't have Richardson.  Heading into this season, we were either going to keep Revis or Cromartie, but not both.  It is a senseless use of cap space.  We kept Cromartie; he's cheaper, no doubt some personal animosity from the owner with Revis, we could get better compensation for Revis, and he was un-signable for us past the 2013 season (unless we just chose to outbid everyone else in March).  So we were only keeping one, and since Cromartie was willing to restructure - even if it meant getting cut in 2014 - this is the move that Idzik made.

 

This also means that if Milliner is available at #9, we're taking him whether we traded Revis or not.  The player we would have lost out on is Sheldon Richardson, not Dee Milliner.  Plus Milliner may yet become a good player (no matter how horrible he looks so far).

 

 

LOL

 

Milliner can't be evaluated yet. Corner is one of the most difficult positions for rookies to transition to, too soon to tell how "good" he is. This is a learning year for the rookies, the fact that a number of them became immediate contributors is rare, the norm would be more like what we've gotten out of Milliner.


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#23 Bleedin Green

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 09:47 AM

NO. We should have paid Revis to play 1 more year and said f*ck it to the #13 pick and next year's #100 (or #130) pick.

 

Oh yeah, and we don't have Richardson.  Heading into this season, we were either going to keep Revis or Cromartie, but not both.  It is a senseless use of cap space.  We kept Cromartie; he's cheaper, no doubt some personal animosity from the owner with Revis, we could get better compensation for Revis, and he was un-signable for us past the 2013 season (unless we just chose to outbid everyone else in March).  So we were only keeping one, and since Cromartie was willing to restructure - even if it meant getting cut in 2014 - this is the move that Idzik made.

 

This also means that if Milliner is available at #9, we're taking him whether we traded Revis or not.  The player we would have lost out on is Sheldon Richardson, not Dee Milliner.  Plus Milliner may yet become a good player (no matter how horrible he looks so far).

 

Agree with your prior post as well as this one completely, but the bold is the one thing that people seem to want to ignore because it doesn't fit their agenda of why the should have kept Revis and would all still be right in the world.  At the very best, if the Jets would have opted to hold onto Revis, he would have been playing on a one-year deal with no option to be retained via a franchise tag this coming offseason.  There is no reason to believe that would have caused the Jets to change around their draft board and ultimately pass on they top rated player they had left, even if they had retained both Revis and Cro.

 

This argument makes even less sense when you consider that DL was probably considered the least area of need for the Jets heading into the draft, and yet the Jets still grabbed Richardson.  So the assertion is that the Jets would have ignored the CB position if not for the Revis trade, due it being less of a need, even though the evidence suggests that is not how Idzik approaches the draft.  Not to mention that CB would have still been set to be a big need heading into 2014 with both Revis and Cro almost certain to be gone.  At the same time, we're also supposed to believe that the Jets would have passed on a CB if it wasn't a need, but then subsequently not opted to pass on DL despite it not being a need either.  How does any of this make the slightest bit of sense?  The entire theory not only completely contradicts what we have seen out of this Jets FO to date, but also actually contradicts itself.


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#24 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 09:55 AM

we're also supposed to believe that the Jets would have passed on a CB if it wasn't a need, but then subsequently not opted to pass on DL despite it not being a need either.  How does any of this make the slightest bit of sense?  The entire theory not only completely contradicts what we have seen out of this Jets FO to date, but also actually contradicts itself.

 

It doesn't make sense.  It is mentally re-drafting with the benefit of hindsight, nothing more.  

 

I'm guilty of the same from time to time.  But I'm still amazed we got what we did for Revis.  It was a mindless trade for TB back then and the trade looks 10x worse right now.


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#25 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 09:58 AM

Gotta tell ya Sperm, you are easily one of my favorite 2-3 posters. Almost everything you post is logical, and I agree with almost as thought you plucked it right from my cro-magnon brain.

 

Alright, that's enough nicey-nice for today.

 

Not nice enough to leave me a little rep, though.  What am I, chopped liver?

 

F*cking a-hole.


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