Rex Ryan: "We have the best draft class in the NFL!"

[#27TheDominator]

Starting rookie QBs who are thought of as not being ready and putting garbage around them is generally not a successful way to develop a QB.

Rex has done this twice now.

Why should he get a third? Or are we now going the Jason Campbell route to mediocrity forever?

 

 

Zzzz.  What QB did the GM give him that he should have started?  The GM has basically stated he was going force Ryan's hand with the starting QB.  Blaming him for it is silly, but typical. 

[Matt39]

 

 All valid points but does the QB also count as a playmaker in your assessment?

 

Of course. Peyton could probably play the position blind if he had to- but he's also playing with an all star group of skill guys...the screen play to Thomas has resulted in a 50+ yard TD this year at least 4 times.

[joewillie78]

 

Geno's looked terrible...but a 2nd round QB working with moving parts every week...and these parts being basically scrubs, is a terrible introduction into the league. A QB losing his confidence is overrated imo....but I said from the get-go there was no reason to play Geno with this group on offense and expect to get a good feel of what type of player he was.

 Agreed.

[#27TheDominator]

My point was not solely to criticize Kiper, although it would be deserved, or to laud the upcoming crop of quarterbacks, it was to mock the general atmosphere of football forums and how individuals perpetuate ideas taken from internet hacks who think they're scouts because they watch football games. 

 

Ie. You have people disappointed over the the play of their team's offensive players, so they say "Hey, just take the best WR, RB and TE in that order and we'll be fine," yet have absolutely no idea the value of those players at various points during the draft. It's completely shortsighted: they'd rather draft a WR/RB/TE who's ranked 38th on their respective team's big-board, compared to an offensive lineman or OLB who's say worth 13th? That's how you wind up with a talentless roster. Or, my favorite: posters who will tear down one person's opinion on a player that they've never seen and will instead say "No, Player X is awful, he's not even on [insert draftnik] top 10 list, we should totally draft Player Z from [insert school here]," showing that they are advocating for a player that they've never even seen. I mean seriously? It's akin to telling someone that they're an idiot for buying the Vantage V10 and that the Ferrari f350 handles much better, without ever driving either.

 

The internet is full of a bunch of people who've never even seen players play and yet will regurgitate the opinion's of others as fact. It's a reason that I won't discuss players outside of LSU, the SEC and the occasional big time prospect. Hey, if someone wants to give completely uninformed opinions, that's fine, but don't act like it's fact and don't be a complete sarcastic douche-bag that makes the board I like to visit unbearable to read.

 

 

**** you!  I do all those things!

[pedro55]

Of course. Peyton could probably play the position blind if he had to- but he's also playing with an all star group of skill guys...the screen play to Thomas has resulted in a 50+ yard TD this year at least 4 times.

 

   Who thought Denver had All Star players on offense when Tebow was QB and they were rated like #32 in passing?   They ran the ball well that year, Tebow would do nothing all game long, and then he'd make a few plays, run more than pass, and bam, they lucked into the playoffs and won a game.   But saying Peyton has nothing to do with it is absurd.   Manning came in last year, off a bad neck injury, and put up big numbers with a group of guys who were rated #32 in passing the year before.   Tebow sucks as a QB, but at this point, so doe Geno.    So maybe those guys had more potential and were better, but at the same time, sometimes it is about the QB.  What was Welker doing before he joined the Pats?

[Matt39]

   Who thought Denver had All Star players on offense when Tebow was QB and they were rated like #32 in passing?   They ran the ball well that year, Tebow would do nothing all game long, and then he'd make a few plays, run more than pass, and bam, they lucked into the playoffs and won a game.   But saying Peyton has nothing to do with it is absurd.   Manning came in last year, off a bad neck injury, and put up big numbers with a group of guys who were rated #32 in passing the year before.   Tebow sucks as a QB, but at this point, so doe Geno.    So maybe those guys had more potential and were better, but at the same time, sometimes it is about the QB.  What was Welker doing before he joined the Pats?

 

1. I never said Manning had nothing to do with it.

2. The Tebow example is terrible as he's out of football(and clearly cant throw)

3. We knew Demaryius and Decker were good players prior to Peyton arriving in Denver.

 

Welker had a good season in Miami- enough for Belly to give up a 2nd round pick to get him. They recognized a talent and pounced on it. Welker would still be in the league producing for someone even if he never played for the Patriots.

[BroadwayJoe12]

**** you!  I do all those things!

 

But you do it with a certain panache that makes everything all okay. 

[#27TheDominator]

But you do it with a certain panache that makes everything all okay. 

 

 

I thought you described my panache as being a "complete sarcastic douchebag?"

[Jacked4JetsFB]

Zzzz. What QB did the GM give him that he should have started? The GM has basically stated he was going force Ryan's hand with the starting QB. Blaming him for it is silly, but typical.

Lol, everybody but Rex once again.

Let's pretend for a second that Rex was Not in charge of personnel, which he was.

Kellen Clemens is holding the fort for the Rams right now, and he beat out Sanchez in camp.

Rex wasn't starting anyone over Sanchez in 09, so no need to bring anyone in.

Keep it coming though, I love the lengths you Rex apologist will go to blame everybody but Rex.

[BroadwayJoe12]

I thought you described my panache as being a "complete sarcastic douchebag?"

 

Well, color me a hypocrite, but I've grown quite fond of your brand of sarcastic douchebaggery.

[rillo]

Just when I thought Rex finally tuned it down.....SMH

[PatriotReign37]

I mean, instead of saying that... why not, not say that.

 

Rex cannot keep his mouth shut.

 

I now see why Baltimore did not hire him as HC.

[NJ]

 these are Idzik decisions. You should be talking about firing Idzik. There are things Rex does that I don't agree with for example playing Ed Reed and Cro even tho they are done and the high rate of penalties. But blaming him for geno smith sucking is just inaccurate. Blame Idzik. He's also the genius who thought the WR were fine, until they weren't when he signed Salas, Nelson, etc. 

Right - John Idzik was responsible for picking wasteoid Stephen Hill and personally injured Jeremy Kerley. He also didn't sign FA's Marques Colston, Mike Wallace, And Reggie Wayne ... oh wait there was no money for that ...Trader Mike had spent it already on another other idiot with boo boo's. And wouldn't it have been brilliant to do that before it was absolutely confirmed that Hill is the waste of flesh he is.

[HessStation]

Oh, Jets biggest busts:

1.Mark Sanchez

2.Blair Thomas

3.Johnny "lam" Jones

4.Vernon Gholston

5.Johnny Mitchell

6.Dwayne Robertson

7.Anthony Becht

8.Kyle Wilson

I was always slightly with bit on Robertson. Only that he was serviceable until he was completely out of position in Mangini's 34. He also had bad knees which ended his career short. His first two years under Herm were pretty solid though.

[jack48]

Right - John Idzik was responsible for picking wasteoid Stephen Hill and personally injured Jeremy Kerley. He also didn't sign FA's Marques Colston, Mike Wallace, And Reggie Wayne ... oh wait there was no money for that ...Trader Mike had spent it already on another other idiot with boo boo's. And wouldn't it have been brilliant to do that before it was absolutely confirmed that Hill is the waste of flesh he is.

This is just Rex brown-nosing his boss, looking to come back.  If it isn't that, it is just Rex reverting to Stupid Rex.  Whichever it is, it should be Good-bye Rex.  Rex is a slightly overrated (and I emphasize slightly, because his D has a tendency to show you their ass in big spots) D coordinator and nothing more.  It is not even a case of saying that you cannot ignore the offensive side.  Rex does not exactly do that.  But when he does bring input to the offense, it is terrible input.  So he is not just a zero on the O side, he is a negative. He also has clearly influenced their drafting strategy of previous years.  And people saying Rex was the best coach the Jets have ever had?  When Parcells was here he coached the whole team.  His defenses were better at the end of games almost all the time.  He controlled his press conferences and behaved like an adult.  The word "circus" was never heard--until he left.  But that was his trademark.  Weeb and Walt were better coaches.  And Walt was a D coordinator.

[jack48]

Right - John Idzik was responsible for picking wasteoid Stephen Hill and personally injured Jeremy Kerley. He also didn't sign FA's Marques Colston, Mike Wallace, And Reggie Wayne ... oh wait there was no money for that ...Trader Mike had spent it already on another other idiot with boo boo's. And wouldn't it have been brilliant to do that before it was absolutely confirmed that Hill is the waste of flesh he is.

This is just Rex brown-nosing his boss, looking to come back.  If it isn't that, it is just Rex reverting to Stupid Rex.  Whichever it is, it should be Good-bye Rex.  Rex is a slightly overrated (and I emphasize slightly, because his D has a tendency to show you their ass in big spots) D coordinator and nothing more.  It is not event just that you cannot ignore the offensive side.  Rex does not exactly do that.  But when he does bring input, it is terrible input.  So he is not just a zero on the O side, he is a negative.  And people saying Rex was the best coach the Jets have ever had?  When Parcells was here he coached the whole team.  His defenses were better at the end of games almost all the time.  He controlled his press conferences and behaved like an adult.  The word "circus" was never heard--until he left.  But that was his trademark.  Weeb and Walt were better coaches.  And Walt was a D coordinator.

[jack48]

This is just Rex brown-nosing his boss, looking to come back.  If it isn't that, it is just Rex reverting to Stupid Rex.  Whichever it is, it should be Good-bye Rex.  Rex is a slightly overrated (and I emphasize slightly, because his D has a tendency to show you their ass in big spots) D coordinator and nothing more.  It is not even just that you cannot ignore the offensive side.  Rex does not exactly do that.  But when he does bring input, it is terrible input.  So he is not just a zero on the O side, he is a negative.  And people saying Rex was the best coach the Jets have ever had?  When Parcells was here he coached the whole team.  His defenses were better at the end of games almost all the time.  He controlled his press conferences and behaved like an adult.  The word "circus" was never heard--until he left, of course, LOL.  But that was his trademark.  Weeb and Walt were better coaches.  And Walt was a D coordinator.  Fact is, when REx came here he had a decent veteran team.  They lucked in their first year with a rookie QB.  They were better their second year, but still crappy offensively.  The could run the ball, and that concealed a lot of sins.  However, when you are a new coach coming in, and you have some drafts under your belt, you should be decent by your third year.  That is when the team started to regress.  That is when the Mangini guys started to thin out.  Their 4th year?  Worse than their 3rd.  Their 5th year?  Forget about it.  Anyone who wants to say that Tannenbaum ran the drafts is crazy.  Mangini and Rex ran the draft.  By your 5th year you should not be terrible.  After 5 drafts you should be better, not demonstrably worse.

[jack48]

My point was not solely to criticize Kiper, although it would be deserved, or to laud the upcoming crop of quarterbacks, it was to mock the general atmosphere of football forums and how individuals perpetuate ideas taken from internet hacks who think they're scouts because they watch football games. 

 

Ie. You have people disappointed over the the play of their team's offensive players, so they say "Hey, just take the best WR, RB and TE in that order and we'll be fine," yet have absolutely no idea the value of those players at various points during the draft. It's completely shortsighted: they'd rather draft a WR/RB/TE who's ranked 38th on their respective team's big-board, compared to an offensive lineman or OLB who's say worth 13th? That's how you wind up with a talentless roster. Or, my favorite: posters who will tear down one person's opinion on a player that they've never seen and will instead say "No, Player X is awful, he's not even on [insert draftnik] top 10 list, we should totally draft Player Z from [insert school here]," showing that they are advocating for a player that they've never even seen. I mean seriously? It's akin to telling someone that they're an idiot for buying the Vantage V10 and that the Ferrari f350 handles much better, without ever driving either.

 

The internet is full of a bunch of people who've never even seen players play and yet will regurgitate the opinion's of others as fact. It's a reason that I won't discuss players outside of LSU, the SEC and the occasional big time prospect. Hey, if someone wants to give completely uninformed opinions, that's fine, but don't act like it's fact and don't be a complete sarcastic douche-bag that makes the board I like to visit unbearable to read.

Sign FAs for need.  Draft the best player on your board.  No one in the room thought Milliner would be this bad.  And seeing as  he missed a lot of development time, he might still be good. Richardson is a star. Can't write off Winters at guard this early.  Geno has tools, but is terribly raw.   He was not their top ten pick.  Idzik did not have the wherewithal  to improve much via FA.   And I don't care what anyone says, or how much they love Rex as a coach, he is an albatross around Idzik's neck, particularly with a tool like Woody owning the team.  If I were Idzik, and Woody does not let me change coaches, I would resign.  That would make the Jets the permanent laughing stock in the NFL, instead of just the occasional laughing stock that they have been over the years.

[JoeWillie]

_{I really can't wait for the day when he is no longer the head coach of this team.}

 

_{He's just an absolute buffoon and an embarassment everytime he opens his mouth, whether it's for a toe or not.}

[joewillie78]

Sign FAs for need.  Draft the best player on your board.  No one in the room thought Milliner would be this bad.  And seeing as  he missed a lot of development time, he might still be good. Richardson is a star. Can't write off Winters at guard this early.  Geno has tools, but is terribly raw.   He was not their top ten pick.  Idzik did not have the wherewithal  to improve much via FA.   And I don't care what anyone says, or how much they love Rex as a coach, he is an albatross around Idzik's neck, particularly with a tool like Woody owning the team.  If I were Idzik, and Woody does not let me change coaches, I would resign.  That would make the Jets the permanent laughing stock in the NFL, instead of just the occasional laughing stock that they have been over the years.

It is very likely, unless an absolute MIRACLE occurrs, that REX will be fired black monday or sometime during that week. Idzik is smart enough in my opinion to not let this disaster fester any longer than is possible unless WOODY sticks his nose in where it doesnt belong.

 

Idzik is going to want his own guy in there as soon as possible to start making decisions on FA's, the Draft, who needs to be cut, who needs to stay, extensions etc.

 

I would not be at all surprised if Woody did try to force REX on him again, that Idzik wouldnt resign as you mentioned, but I doubt even Woody would do that again, although I was completely shocked when he did it this past year, and the GM hiring process turned into a total sham.

 

If this organization EVER gets to the point that their GM, Head Coach, scouting dept. etc, are all on the same page and actually try as hard as possible to change not only the structure of the team, but the perception that has creeped in since this coach was put in place, then maybe we can finally move forward and be proud of our team again. Boy, I hope so.

[Smashmouth]

 

 Do you think the dude (I cant even think of his name right now) that just caught 4 TDS from Peyton this weekendwas a GREAT receiver, or did Peyton make him a great receievr because, well, because he is Peyton Manning?

 

think about the dudes that were surrounding the dude who caught 4 TD passes then think about which dudes the defense was focused on.

[joewillie78]

think about the dudes that were surrounding the dude who caught 4 TD passes then think about which dudes the defense was focused on.

Yes, valid point, but I still have to believe that Eric Decker in most offenses, especially the JETS, would be an average to maybe above average receiver at best, but Peyton makes him an instant pro-bowler.

 

As you know, reading my posts, that I am a firm believer that the QB, especailly a Franchise QB, makes great receivers and I have no doubt that with the EXACT same cast the Jets have on offense right now, that Peyton would make Kerley a pro-bowler, and possibly Holmes (when he plays), and the rest of the league would know the names of Cumberland and Hill, that is unless our great coach wanted to implement "ground n pound" with a first ballot HOF QB.

[Smashmouth]

Yes, valid point, but I still have to believe that Eric Decker in most offenses, especially the JETS, would be an average to maybe above average receiver at best, but Peyton makes him an instant pro-bowler.

 

As you know, reading my posts, that I am a firm believer that the QB, especailly a Franchise QB, makes great receivers and I have no doubt that with the EXACT same cast the Jets have on offense right now, that Peyton would make Kerley a pro-bowler, and possibly Holmes (when he plays), and the rest of the league would know the names of Cumberland and Hill, that is unless our great coach wanted to implement "ground n pound" with a first ballot HOF QB.

yes of course a top notch QB can raise the play of a WR IF said WR has the talent to make that happen. I have watched Decker and the guy just makes crazy catch after crazy catch and he plays the position as physically as anyone. That has to count for something. Not to mention the Broncos also have Welker, Thomas,Thomas and Moreno exactly who is a defense supposed to focus on ? In all honestly Peyton has it pretty easy in Denver and there is good reason why he chose to go to Denver. Could a guy like Sanchez put up Manning type numbers with the same cast ? Not likely. But I would be willing to bet he would be a good QB in that system, not great but good for sure especially if he was starting out as a rookie there rather than playing for the dysfunctional Jets.