Manziel Ponders Life With New York Jets

[TechJet]

flags down! its red!..... Thats a challenge man.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Hundley, I am iffey on, Boyd is an absolute NO WAY. My list is:

 

1. Manziel

2. McCarron

3. Carr

4. Murray

5. Mettenberg

 

 

How does one love Manziel so much, yet completely writes off Boyd? Their games and physical abilities are extremely similar. If you write off Boyd based on his level of play, methinks you're only liking Manziel because of his "swagger" and off-the-field escapades. 

 

 

I've been saying it all season, but I firmly believe Mettenberger has the most upside of any quarterback in this draft.  He's got the prototypical size, the strongest arm and his decision-making has improved night and day from the second that Cam Cameron stepped on that field. I like Murray's intangibles and think he can be a career backup like what we're seeing in McCown right now: someone who will be given the chance to compete and possibly start, but overall realize that he's a backup and will be a consummate professional. 

 

I can't speak on Bortles, Fales or Carr, because outside of the upcoming Bowl games I have had absolutely no reason to watch UCF, San Jose State or Fresno State and I'm very leery of anyone outside of Cali and Florida residents who say they've watched them exclusively. 

[T0mShane]

Johnny Manziel=Joe Namath(if you snapped his right arm in three places).

[BroadwayJoe12]

Johnny Manziel=Joe Namath(if you snapped his right arm in three places).

 

And reverse Gattaca'd him to lose 4 inches. 

[T0mShane]

How does one love Manziel so much, yet completely writes off Boyd? Their games and physical abilities are extremely similar. If you write off Boyd based on his level of play, methinks you're only liking Manziel because of his "swagger" and off-the-field escapades.

I've been saying it all season, but I firmly believe Mettenberger has the most upside of any quarterback in this draft. He's got the prototypical size, the strongest arm and his decision-making has improved night and day from the second that Cam Cameron stepped on that field. I like Murray's intangibles and think he can be a career backup like what we're seeing in McCown right now: someone who will be given the chance to compete and possibly start, but overall realize that he's a backup and will be a consummate professional.

I can't speak on Bortles, Fales or Carr, because outside of the upcoming Bowl games I have had absolutely no reason to watch UCF, San Jose State or Fresno State and I'm very leery of anyone outside of Cali and Florida residents who say they've watched them exclusively.

You're not at all concerned that Mettenberger has only looked like an NFL QB for one year despite all the talent on that offense?

[TuscanyTile2]

For whatever it's worth, Mel Kiper Jr had an article (is says: Updated: December 13, 2013, 10:22 PM ET) about "Johnny Manziel's draft stock".  He sees him as a definite 1st rounder and could be a top 10 pick.

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/id/10128260/nfl-draft-declares-how-high-johnny-manziel-rise

[BroadwayJoe12]

You're not at all concerned that Mettenberger has only looked like an NFL QB for one year despite all the talent on that offense?

 

Ehh, not especially. I think it evens out with the top defenses he faces week in and out. I haven't seen Fales or Bortles play yet, but it's why I'd put their numbers into context when they're beating defenses like Rutgers, Temple, Navy, San Diego State etc. 

 

Mettenberger came to LSU with huge hype and promise and up until this year, I labeled him as a major head-case and waste of talent, which he was. Every single thing about him changed when Cam became their offensive coordinator.  His attitude and work-ethic did a 180, his decision making and ability to go through his progressions are vastly improved and he can make every single NFL throw look easy. Yes, it helps having two NFL caliber receivers on his team, but drafting a QB is more about prediction than production.  Murray and McCarron's production is out of this world, but their talent doesn't even scratch Zach's surface. Watching that Georgia LSU game this year, really sold me on how far he's come and I stand by that he's the best QB prospect that I've seen this year.   But, once again, I have to ammend that by saying I've never watched San Jose State, Fresno State or UCF play this year, mainly because I don't like watching sh*tty football. I'll definitely be checking out Bortles against Baylor though, should be a fun game.

[JustInFudge]

If your namesake acted like that in college, Bear would have beat the piss out of him. If Manziel brings that act to the pros, where he hasn't done a damned thing, he'll get chewed up and spit out as quick as Jimmy Clausen. I understand you like him, but not only can I not stand the kid off the field, I don't like his style of play on the field, it's not that conducive to thriving in the NFL.  I don't like his size, his arm or his ability to play in the pocket, nor the fact that every time he's played an NFL style defense in my LSU, he's looked like dogsh*t.  Maybe if he's drafted in the second or third round by a team that can bring him a long slowly, but if he's forced to start from day one, he's going to look like a tiny, under-prepared Tony Romo.

 

Meh, he put that team on his back 90% of the games they played.

 

Your boy looked like sh*t against them too.  Last year he was pathetic vs. the Auggies.  Same vs. the Gators too.  Granted he's been better with Cam Cam.  But still, this season he was effecient vs them but its not like he lit them up. 

 

What is Mettenberger's big marker game?  Georgia on the road in a loss?  That's my biggest problem with him.  You cant really point to any particular performance and say wow.  He's just an average QB IMO.  Career back up. 

[joewillie78]

For whatever it's worth, Mel Kiper Jr had an article (is says: Updated: December 13, 2013, 10:22 PM ET) about "Johnny Manziel's draft stock".  He sees him as a definite 1st rounder and could be a top 10 pick.

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/id/10128260/nfl-draft-declares-how-high-johnny-manziel-rise

Look, I understand the apprehension with Johnny Football. I have my own, and I'm sure many GMs (like Russell Wilson), have the same apprehension. BUT I also believe that if he isnt a flop, then he is a star with just incredible upside. SO, it begs the question for any GM, not just Idzik, under the current Rookie wage scale, do you risk a 1st on a guy who could obviously flop, but who could also be an amazing star in the making.

 

Yeah, its easy to say, well, what did they risk on Wilson? they took him in the 3rd round? and I completely understand that but if he had been taken earlier and people would have been HUH? What are they thinking? and he turns into a star(which of course he did)then the GM who "risked" it looks like a genious. The same holds true with Manziel, only more so as he has been projected all along as a 1ster while Wilson was never projected that high.

 

Someone is going to take Manziel in the 1st 15 picks, thats a given, I just hate for this franchise to always go with the "safe" pick (how'd Gholstons "safe" pick work out?) and never want to take a gamble and have it work out. We have been picking safe D-lineman and corners for 40 years, so yeah, lets keep that trend up as it has worked wonders for this franchise.

[joewillie78]

How does one love Manziel so much, yet completely writes off Boyd? Their games and physical abilities are extremely similar. If you write off Boyd based on his level of play, methinks you're only liking Manziel because of his "swagger" and off-the-field escapades. 

 

 

I've been saying it all season, but I firmly believe Mettenberger has the most upside of any quarterback in this draft.  He's got the prototypical size, the strongest arm and his decision-making has improved night and day from the second that Cam Cameron stepped on that field. I like Murray's intangibles and think he can be a career backup like what we're seeing in McCown right now: someone who will be given the chance to compete and possibly start, but overall realize that he's a backup and will be a consummate professional. 

 

I can't speak on Bortles, Fales or Carr, because outside of the upcoming Bowl games I have had absolutely no reason to watch UCF, San Jose State or Fresno State and I'm very leery of anyone outside of Cali and Florida residents who say they've watched them exclusively. 

Because I watched Manziel in his toughest game against the best team (Alabama) with the best coach, and he put up like 5 TDs and 450 or something and made throws that I know most college kids cant make and then I watched Boyd against his best foe, Florida State, and he looked like a bad combination of Sanchez and Smith. He was clueless.

 

Sorry, Manziel is a star and Boyd is a Sanchez/Smith clone.

[joewillie78]

Meh, he put that team on his back 90% of the games they played.

 

Your boy looked like sh*t against them too.  Last year he was pathetic vs. the Auggies.  Same vs. the Gators too.  Granted he's been better with Cam Cam.  But still, this season he was effecient vs them but its not like he lit them up. 

 

What is Mettenberger's big marker game?  Georgia on the road in a loss?  That's my biggest problem with him.  You cant really point to any particular performance and say wow.  He's just an average QB IMO.  Career back up. 

Jif, are you pro or anti Manziel? Just curious?

[joewillie78]

If your namesake acted like that in college, Bear would have beat the piss out of him. If Manziel brings that act to the pros, where he hasn't done a damned thing, he'll get chewed up and spit out as quick as Jimmy Clausen. I understand you like him, but not only can I not stand the kid off the field, I don't like his style of play on the field, it's not that conducive to thriving in the NFL.  I don't like his size, his arm or his ability to play in the pocket, nor the fact that every time he's played an NFL style defense in my LSU, he's looked like dogsh*t.  Maybe if he's drafted in the second or third round by a team that can bring him a long slowly, but if he's forced to start from day one, he's going to look like a tiny, under-prepared Tony Romo.

Yeah, so would have Woody Hayes, Bo Schembechler, Darryl Royal, Bob Devaney etc. etc. different era, different times. Back then coaches ruled, but now with the money, fame etc, the players rule. The minute any of these guys NOW would "beat the piss out of him", he'd be walking off the team and declaring for the pro's. Sorry, not applicable in this era.

[CotcheryifyouCan]

Wouldn't mind Johnny in the 2nd round but he's not gonna fall that far. McCarron or mettenberg in the 3rd or 4th would be the way I'd go

[JustInFudge]

Jif, are you pro or anti Manziel? Just curious?

 

He's a gamer.  Big time player who makes big time plays.  I think he's got all the tools.  He reminds me of Russell Wilson.

 

Definitely my favorite QB in the draft.

[bitonti]

For whatever it's worth, Mel Kiper Jr had an article (is says: Updated: December 13, 2013, 10:22 PM ET) about "Johnny Manziel's draft stock".  He sees him as a definite 1st rounder and could be a top 10 pick.

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/id/10128260/nfl-draft-declares-how-high-johnny-manziel-rise

 

 

that's really the bottom line. Hes got almost a Tebow-like quality to sell jerseys and enough teams in the top 10 need him. The Jets probably aren't gonna pick top 10...

[joewillie78]

He's a gamer.  Big time player who makes big time plays.  I think he's got all the tools.  He reminds me of Russell Wilson.

 

Definitely my favorite QB in the draft.

Thank you.

[CrazyCarl40]

He won't be there and he's not worth it.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Meh, he put that team on his back 90% of the games they played.

 

Your boy looked like sh*t against them too.  Last year he was pathetic vs. the Auggies.  Same vs. the Gators too.  Granted he's been better with Cam Cam.  But still, this season he was effecient vs them but its not like he lit them up. 

 

What is Mettenberger's big marker game?  Georgia on the road in a loss?  That's my biggest problem with him.  You cant really point to any particular performance and say wow.  He's just an average QB IMO.  Career back up. 

 

I've stated numerous times that Zach was a pure waste of talent for his entire career up until the point where Cam became offensive coordinator. Everything about him has changed in the last 12 months and he's just finally tapping his potential, which is probably the best in the class from a pure arm-talent standpoint. Plus, he's got the prototypical size. The Georgia loss was probably his marquee game in terms of publicity facing Murray and the meaning it had, but part of predicting NFL talent is looking at the potential, which I don't see in Manziel. 

 

 

My problem with Manziel is that the one true NFL-style defense that he faces in both his years has made him look like hot gargabe. Yea, he torched up Alabama, but the system that Kirby runs is completely different from what Chavis does and that showed. Chavis' guys are usually very technically sound and stay within their scheme, which was to keep contain and were able to still plan press-man against their receivers and stop the majority of broken-play, backyard football passes that comprises the majority of their yards.  In those two games, Manziel wasn't allowed to buy extra time like he does against other defenses and Mike Evans was held firmly in check for a combine 10 catches and 120 yards with 0 tds or something along those lines. 

 

Manziels numbers vs LSU (2 games): 45-97 (46%) for 500 yards, 1 td 5 ints. 29 rushes for 81 yards. 

[joewillie78]

that's really the bottom line. Hes got almost a Tebow-like quality to sell jerseys and enough teams in the top 10 need him. The Jets probably aren't gonna pick top 10...

So they trade up to get a quarterback from probably the WORST college of all-time for producing QB busts, the list is endless, but in a year where their are any number of great QB's the Jets cant trade up this year (even with a plethora of picks)? Why Not?

[BroadwayJoe12]

No one's changing anybody's mind about someone as polarizing as he is and I think my feelings are pretty well known, all that's left to do is wait and see what happens. 

[CrazyCarl40]

So they trade up to get a quarterback from probably the WORST college of all-time for producing QB busts, the list is endless, but in a year where their are any number of great QB's the Jets cant trade up this year (even with a plethora of picks)? Why Not?

Because this is the least talented roster in the NFL and the Jets need all of the picks they can get to try and get playmakers and starters in here. Especially given their porous draft history.

[joewillie78]

I've stated numerous times that Zach was a pure waste of talent for his entire career up until the point where Cam became offensive coordinator. Everything about him has changed in the last 12 months and he's just finally tapping his potential, which is probably the best in the class from a pure arm-talent standpoint. Plus, he's got the prototypical size. The Georgia loss was probably his marquee game in terms of publicity facing Murray and the meaning it had, but part of predicting NFL talent is looking at the potential, which I don't see in Manziel. 

 

 

My problem with Manziel is that the one true NFL-style defense that he faces in both his years has made him look like hot gargabe. Yea, he torched up Alabama, but the system that Kirby runs is completely different from what Chavis does and that showed. Chavis' guys are usually very technically sound and stay within their scheme, which was to keep contain and were able to still plan press-man against their receivers and stop the majority of broken-play, backyard football passes that comprises the majority of their yards.  In those two games, Manziel wasn't allowed to buy extra time like he does against other defenses and Mike Evans was held firmly in check for a combine 10 catches and 120 yards with 0 tds or something along those lines. 

 

Manziels numbers vs LSU (2 games): 45-97 (46%) for 500 yards, 1 td 5 ints. 29 rushes for 81 yards. 

Your points on his numbers Vs. LSU are very valid. I agree, they had Manziels number, and thats a concern, but the SEC is the SEC and he fared pretty well against the rest. I'm quite sure, that for whatever reason, every QB has a team they struggle against and Manziels was LSU. Valid point.

[joewillie78]

Because this is the least talented roster in the NFL and the Jets need all of the picks they can get to try and get playmakers and starters in here. Especially given their porous draft history.

This I agree with 100%. But I look at the list of QB's that someone posted in another thread of the JETS over their entire history, and to say they were average (besides Namath of course), would be a stretch by any sense of imagination.

 

How long will this franchise go without a Franchise QB? I guess thats a rhetorical question as it has been about 40 years, and counting. Great.

[HessStation]

Your points on his numbers Vs. LSU are very valid. I agree, they had Manziels number, and thats a concern, but the SEC is the SEC and he fared pretty well against the rest. I'm quite sure, that for whatever reason, every QB has a team they struggle against and Manziels was LSU. Valid point.

 

Keep in mind in his two years he'd a played with (3) 1st round quality draft picks at OT, a mid round NFL OG, a potential first round NFL WR and multiple NFL quality RBs. 

 

I like Manziel but it's a super risky pick in the first round. 

[joewillie78]

Keep in mind in his two years he'd a played with (3) 1st round quality draft picks at OT, a potential first round NFL WR and multiple NFL quality RBs. 

 

I like Manziel but it's a super risky pick in the first round. 

All great points, and I know you have read my posts, where I agree, Its Risky, but you also know that I am in favor of the Jets taking that risk. Are you?

[HessStation]

All great points, and I know you have read my posts, where I agree, Its Risky, but you also know that I am in favor of the Jets taking that risk. Are you?

 

 

It depends on a bunch of things pre draft. I'm not completely against Manziel. But it's tricky. He'll come with a lot of baggage. 

[BroadwayJoe12]

All great points, and I know you have read my posts, where I agree, Its Risky, but you also know that I am in favor of the Jets taking that risk. Are you?

 

It'sdefinitely  risky and if our evaluators think he's the next Drew Brees or Tony Romo, then by all means make the pick. I'm sitting on my couch watching the games for a reason: it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong on a prospect or the last.

[joewillie78]

No one's changing anybody's mind about someone as polarizing as he is and I think my feelings are pretty well known, all that's left to do is wait and see what happens. 

I agree, and really, I am obviously in favor of Manziel, and you Mettenberg, and others McCarron etc, and in reality I just want the JETS to try again (sorry, I dislike Smith and see a bleak future), try one of these guys, and hope you hit, but if they sit back and say Geno is our guy, and not try one of these guys, that would dissappoint me more than just simply taking another QB over Manziel.

[BroadwayJoe12]

I agree, and really, I am obviously in favor of Manziel, and you Mettenberg, and others McCarron etc, and in reality I just want the JETS to try again (sorry, I dislike Smith and see a bleak future), try one of these guys, and hope you hit, but if they sit back and say Geno is our guy, and not try one of these guys, that would dissappoint me more than just simply taking another QB over Manziel.

 

For sure. I think they almost have to bring in both an able veteran and a rookie QB this off-season to compete with Geno. Best-case scenario is that Geno develops into the real deal and we have a promising QB on the roster that we can also develop and trade. 

 

While I haven't seen Bortles, Fales or Carr play, they are drawing a lot of hype and will certainly draw more if they all declare and perform well in all the off-season events. Since I can't speak on their play, it does seem as though there's at least a half dozen QBs that are worth of competing for a starter's spot, so that should bode well for hopefully us landing one to bring in and compete.

[stoicsentry]

Since REX is mediocre, then you think that Manziel will be, well, below average or worse. Is our current QB a worse QB than our current Head Coach is at Head coaching?

 

Rex is "mediocre" based on what? His winning record and 4 playoff wins with one of the worst quarterbacks in modern NFL history?

[joewillie78]

Rex is "mediocre" based on what? His winning record and 4 playoff wins with one of the worst quarterbacks in modern NFL history?

I went through this in another thread Ad-nauseum. but I do agree with the phrase "one of the worst quarterbacks in modern NFL history".

[JustInFudge]

I've stated numerous times that Zach was a pure waste of talent for his entire career up until the point where Cam became offensive coordinator. Everything about him has changed in the last 12 months and he's just finally tapping his potential, which is probably the best in the class from a pure arm-talent standpoint. Plus, he's got the prototypical size. The Georgia loss was probably his marquee game in terms of publicity facing Murray and the meaning it had, but part of predicting NFL talent is looking at the potential, which I don't see in Manziel. 

 

 

My problem with Manziel is that the one true NFL-style defense that he faces in both his years has made him look like hot gargabe. Yea, he torched up Alabama, but the system that Kirby runs is completely different from what Chavis does and that showed. Chavis' guys are usually very technically sound and stay within their scheme, which was to keep contain and were able to still plan press-man against their receivers and stop the majority of broken-play, backyard football passes that comprises the majority of their yards.  In those two games, Manziel wasn't allowed to buy extra time like he does against other defenses and Mike Evans was held firmly in check for a combine 10 catches and 120 yards with 0 tds or something along those lines. 

 

Manziels numbers vs LSU (2 games): 45-97 (46%) for 500 yards, 1 td 5 ints. 29 rushes for 81 yards. 

 

I thinking basing his career on what he did vs. LSU is silly.  Should I post Metternberger's career numbers vs. Ole Miss or Florida?  lol

 

Other than size and arm, there's really nothings special about Mettenberger.

 

Manziel is special. 

[T0mShane]

I thinking basing his career on what he did vs. LSU is silly. Should I post Metternberger's career numbers vs. Ole Miss or Florida? lol

Other than size and arm, there's really nothings special about Mettenberger.

Manziel is special.

You're special.

[JustInFudge]

You're special.

 

I certainly have a wow factor that Mettenberger lacks.

[T0mShane]

I certainly have a wow factor that Mettenberger lacks.

You're both career backups because of your innate lack of instincts.