Jordan Matthews WR Vanderbilt

[Matt39]

I don't have a conference- but the snobiness from the SEC folks is hysterical. The conference is not as good as they think and they don't produce better pros than any other major conference.

You'd think SEC football were the NFL the way the conference carries itself. There's no way of really knowing how much better the SEC really is anyways. However two Big 12 teams seem to be doing just fine.

[BroadwayJoe12]

I don't have a conference- but the snobiness from the SEC folks is hysterical. The conference is not as good as they think and they don't produce better pros than any other major conference.

You'd think SEC football were the NFL the way the conference carries itself. There's no way of really knowing how much better the SEC really is anyways. However two Big 12 teams seem to be doing just fine.

I would say 8 of the last 10 and 7 straight national championships is a pretty good indication that they're that much better. Thus, providing some of the best competition.

[Matt39]

I would say 8 of the last 10 and 7 straight national championships is a pretty good indication that they're that much better. Thus, providing some of the best competition.

 

They've had the best team. 

 

Look at the All-Pro squad this year with the way SEC ppl beat their chests you'd think they'd have the entire roster. All the skill guys aren't SEC.

[BroadwayJoe12]

They've had the best team.

Look at the All-Pro squad this year with the way SEC ppl beat their chests you'd think they'd have the entire roster. All the skill guys aren't SEC.

I'm merely pointing out that putting up big numbers against good competition is a positive. I honestly have no idea how you're arguing against it, other than to try pick a fight over your obvious distaste of SEC fans.

[Matt39]

I'm merely pointing out that putting up big numbers against good competition is a positive. I honestly have no idea how you're arguing against it, other than to try pick a fight over your obvious distaste of SEC fans.

 

Every big conference is good competition though.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Every big conference is good competition though.

 

Debatable, but none of them are comparable to the SEC in recent history. Football outsiders' F+ rating has combined both Brian Fremeau's FEI and Bill Connelly's S&P +(which measures explosiveness, per-play efficiency, and drive success), all of which have the SEC dominating for the majority of this decade, the only exception would be the Pac-12 this year, as the SEC has had a relative down year with younger rosters. 

 

My main point was to use dominating the SEC as a single positive, not the end-all, be-all evaluating characteristic for judging wide receivers. All things being equal, a WR playing well against better competition, which the SEC is, would be a deciding factor. However, since things are never perfectly equal on a prospect, I would use it as a single positive. If you have problems with SEC fans, that's fine, but your argument here is ridiculous.

[JustInFudge]

I don't have a conference- but the snobiness from the SEC folks is hysterical. The conference is not as good as they think and they don't produce better pros than any other major conference.

You'd think SEC football were the NFL the way the conference carries itself. There's no way of really knowing how much better the SEC really is anyways. However two Big 12 teams seem to be doing just fine.

 

Finding good pros in every conference and the SEC being the best conference in college are two different things...but both true.

[JustInFudge]

They've had the best team. 

 

Look at the All-Pro squad this year with the way SEC ppl beat their chests you'd think they'd have the entire roster. All the skill guys aren't SEC.

 

Manning, Green, Lacy...Thomas and Johnson were basically a coin flip between UGA and GT.  I think its more of a regional thing anyhow.  Look at how many pros are from Florida.  Naturally, a lot of SEC teams gobble them up but other conferences get some too.

 

A bit of topic but Its going to be interesting to see if Charlie Strong can keep that South Florida connection strong in Texas.  Having that state and South Florida on lockdown could be scary. 

[Matt39]

Manning, Green, Lacy...Thomas and Johnson were basically a coin flip between UGA and GT.  I think its more of a regional thing anyhow.  Look at how many pros are from Florida.  Naturally, a lot of SEC teams gobble them up but other conferences get some too.

 

A bit of topic but Its going to be interesting to see if Charlie Strong can keep that South Florida connection strong in Texas.  Having that state and South Florida on lockdown could be scary. 

 

Yeah if you want to argue the south rules football talent there's zero argument. It's just funny when college guys will ride for certain players...and then you realize they're an alum. 

[Larz]

I want a redzone target

 

like that GM in jerry maguire

[eboozer]

Had to save this thread!!! 2 spots away from falling off page 1 and being sent to the Draft Forum.

 

Whew!!! That was a close one.

[ozzieny]

Keep on topic-stop with pettiness with comments-if you have nothing good to say about someone personal - be quiet

words of wisdom  - this site is just too bogged down with this teenage angst. Can we just talk about football please.

[derp]

Saw an interesting article where the big takeaway was that a better metric than pure stats for a WR is the percentage of passing yardage/TD's that the WR had for their offense, they called it Dominator Rating. That metric (I'm not sure how exactly they combined yardage and TD's) seemed to be the big predictor for whether or not a WR has success in the league. Not only in the first round, but second and third round steals also did well in this metric.

 

And it makes sense too. A guy like Davante Adams has awesome stats, but Carr threw the ball all over the place this year. Whereas Paul Richardson played on an offense with poor QB play and was the focal point, but still had nearly half of Colorado's receiving yardage and touchdowns. Of course the other spot where there seemed to be a difference was weight, and Richardson is slight - but it's still interesting. 

 

Anyway, I did some rough calculations last night since I'm not sure how they weight yardage vs. TD's - but regardless Matthews' numbers from this perspective are impressive. Richardson was another one, along with Allen Robinson.

 

Article's below, it's an interesting read. Obviously all metrics need to be taken with a grain of salt, but I thought this was a cool take on WR evaluation. And to an extent it makes sense. If there's a situation like LSU obviously those guys look great, but they also benefit from playing a) with Mettenberger and with each other since the secondary can't focus as much on just one of them. You can argue the other way and say playing with each other hurts their numbers since they're not the focal point - but for a guy like Matthews who was the obvious focal point for quality defenses to still produce big time is impressive. And obviously systems that toss the ball around a lot inflate numbers to an extent, too.

 

http://rotoviz.com/index.php/2014/01/2014-nfl-draft-three-holy-grail-components-to-wide-receiver-evaluation/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=2014-nfl-draft-three-holy-grail-components-to-wide-receiver-evaluation

[BroadwayJoe12]

If it's possible to win weigh-ins at the Senior Bowl, than Jordan Matthews certainly won it. 6'2.5" 210 lbs with 10.5" hands and an 80" reach. He won't test out of the charts at the combine, but the dude is just a football player. Ideally I wanted to grab Lee in the first and Matthews in the second, but until the combine and senior bowl are done, it's hard to really know.  The fact that he might time slow could push him to the lower part of round 2: it just seems like there's an absolute glut of solid receivers going in the first couple rounds.

[derp]

I have a hard time seeing Matthews ending up as anything less than a solid starting WR in the league. He's got great size/build/frame for a WR, takes his craft seriously, and is just good at playing WR (routes, hands catching, etc). 

[SenorGato]

To be fair, Nicks was a beast coming out of college. I don't think Matthews is quite as good and the whole "steal in the third or later" made sense to me.

[JayKwaz]

I like Mathews, But Donte Moncrief from Ole Miss is someone I am really liking in the third with the Revis pick.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpOHRPmhErw#t=146

[Matt39]

Starting to like this kid. Got to watch some cutups recently and he could be the second receiver off the board.

 

Marqise Lee was underwhelming to me to say the least.

[SenorGato]

I like Mathews, But Donte Moncrief from Ole Miss is someone I am really liking in the third with the Revis pick.

Moncreif was a beast this year and has my favorite height/weight combo of the early WRs. Would love to add him.

[#27TheDominator]

Saw an interesting article where the big takeaway was that a better metric than pure stats for a WR is the percentage of passing yardage/TD's that the WR had for their offense, they called it Dominator Rating. That metric (I'm not sure how exactly they combined yardage and TD's) seemed to be the big predictor for whether or not a WR has success in the league. Not only in the first round, but second and third round steals also did well in this metric.

 

And it makes sense too. A guy like Davante Adams has awesome stats, but Carr threw the ball all over the place this year. Whereas Paul Richardson played on an offense with poor QB play and was the focal point, but still had nearly half of Colorado's receiving yardage and touchdowns. Of course the other spot where there seemed to be a difference was weight, and Richardson is slight - but it's still interesting. 

 

Anyway, I did some rough calculations last night since I'm not sure how they weight yardage vs. TD's - but regardless Matthews' numbers from this perspective are impressive. Richardson was another one, along with Allen Robinson.

 

Article's below, it's an interesting read. Obviously all metrics need to be taken with a grain of salt, but I thought this was a cool take on WR evaluation. And to an extent it makes sense. If there's a situation like LSU obviously those guys look great, but they also benefit from playing a) with Mettenberger and with each other since the secondary can't focus as much on just one of them. You can argue the other way and say playing with each other hurts their numbers since they're not the focal point - but for a guy like Matthews who was the obvious focal point for quality defenses to still produce big time is impressive. And obviously systems that toss the ball around a lot inflate numbers to an extent, too.

 

http://rotoviz.com/index.php/2014/01/2014-nfl-draft-three-holy-grail-components-to-wide-receiver-evaluation/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=2014-nfl-draft-three-holy-grail-components-to-wide-receiver-evaluation

 

I have a rating?  Who knew?  

 

Interesting stuff. So much of the WR is QB/scheme dependent that I analytics are never going to tell the full story.  I'd be interested to see how Stephen HIll fared in my rating system compared to Megatron or Demaryius Thomas.  

[derp]

I have a rating?  Who knew?  

 

Interesting stuff. So much of the WR is QB/scheme dependent that I analytics are never going to tell the full story.  I'd be interested to see how Stephen HIll fared in my rating system compared to Megatron or Demaryius Thomas.  

 

Doing some quick math since I play in spreadsheets at work anyway, Hill actually fares really well in this (your) rating system (around 45%, pretty evenly split between GT's yards and TD's). Probably why analytics guys really liked him between that and his obscene measurables. Although interestingly his catches are a really low percentage of Tech's catches that year.

 

Bey Bey's numbers are obscene at a little over 70% - just over 65% of their receiving yards and just under 73% of their receiving touchdowns. Megatron's are actually a little closer to Hill - around 50% of their yards and exactly 60% of their TD's. The numbers themselves are more impressive than DT's though, a few more yards and almost twice the TD's, Georgia Tech just had a moderately better passing game that season (Calvin alone had more receiving TD's his last season at GT than the entire team did Hill or Thomas's last season).

 

Ultimately the issue with Hill is that despite the fact that he's big, he plays like he's Jeremy Kerley's size. He's still got time given how raw he was coming out, how bad QB play has been for the Jets since he's been here, and how long it takes receivers to get acclimated in this league, but I'm certainly not going to hold my breath.

[jorge o8]

Doing some quick math since I play in spreadsheets at work anyway, Hill actually fares really well in this (your) rating system (around 45%, pretty evenly split between GT's yards and TD's). Probably why analytics guys really liked him between that and his obscene measurables. Although interestingly his catches are a really low percentage of Tech's catches that year.

 

Bey Bey's numbers are obscene at a little over 70% - just over 65% of their receiving yards and just under 73% of their receiving touchdowns. Megatron's are actually a little closer to Hill - around 50% of their yards and exactly 60% of their TD's. The numbers themselves are more impressive than DT's though, a few more yards and almost twice the TD's, Georgia Tech just had a moderately better passing game that season (Calvin alone had more receiving TD's his last season at GT than the entire team did Hill or Thomas's last season).

 

Ultimately the issue with Hill is that despite the fact that he's big, he plays like he's Jeremy Kerley's size. He's still got time given how raw he was coming out, how bad QB play has been for the Jets since he's been here, and how long it takes receivers to get acclimated in this league, but I'm certainly not going to hold my breath.

and he had to work with two O systems in two years, Hill that is

[Villain The Foe]

Im telling you...

 

[Villain The Foe]

http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/Prospect-Primer-WR-Jordan-Matthews-Vanderbilt/0290e19d-eb64-48d1-a7d6-8e250d04cc93

[SenorGato]

If guys like Beckham Jr. and Cooks are in talks for 18 then I don't mind Matthews in it either.

[Villain The Foe]

Philadelphia Eagles Draft Countdown: Making the Case for Jordan Matthews By Cody Swartz, Featured Columnist Apr 20, 2014

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Michael Conroy

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The Philadelphia Eagles hold just six picks in the upcoming NFLdraft, beginning with the 22nd selection in the first round. For general manager Howie Roseman to emerge with as much talent as possible, he will have to be thrifty with his selections, capitalizing on the best players available while also looking to fulfill positions of need.

Defense should be a priority for the team, considering the offense set franchise records for both points scored and yards gained in the first year of Chip Kelly's system. Meanwhile, the defense employed a bend-but-don't-break philosophy that resulted in nine consecutive games of 21 points or fewer allowed.

Coordinator Billy Davis' unit finished near the bottom of the pack in yards allowed but near the middle in points allowed, which is a testament to the defense's ability to toughen up near the end zone. Davis coaxed solid seasons out of a number of players, doing so while implementing a new three-man front in the 3-4 defense.

If the Eagles pick a defensive player in the first round, it’s the ideal scenario for Davis. A safety like Calvin Pryor would be an instant improvement over Malcolm Jenkins or Nate Allen. A cornerback likeDarqueze Dennard would solidify the secondary.

A pass-rushing outside linebacker like Anthony Barr would provide a young player to get to the opposing quarterback. And a versatile defensive lineman like Ra’Shede Hageman would add depth to the line.

In the second round, though, the Eagles need to be looking at a wide receiver.

Kelly’s decision to release DeSean Jackson makes receiver a pressing need for the 2014 season. Even if Jackson hadn’t been released,Jeremy Maclin is signed for just one more year and Riley Cooper’s contract only locks him up through 2015.

Sammy Watkins and Mike Evans will likely be top-10 picks in the upcoming draft, while Marqise Lee, Brandin Cooks and Odell Beckham are expected to be first-round selections as well. Allen Robinson has a chance to go in the first round, and Kelvin Benjamin does too.

The Eagles have reportedly been interested in trading up for Evans, via Andy Jasner of ESPN.com, but that doesn't seem plausible without giving up a huge ransom of draft picks.

When Philadelphia picks in the second round, Kelly should be targeting a bigger receiver with good speed and the ability to contribute at the NFL level as a rookie. Vanderbilt’s Jordan Matthews is an underrated playmaker with the tools to be successful in the National Football League.

 

 

Butch Dill

 

Matthews is 6’3”, 210 pounds and ran a 4.46 40-yard dash. He set the all-time SEC record for career receptions and receiving yards. He put up an impressive 21 reps in the bench press, second-most for his position. And he happens to be the cousin of Jerry Rice, arguably the greatest wide receiver in NFL history.

Last year, Matthews put up stellar numbers as a senior. He caught 112 passes for 1,477 yards and seven touchdowns, giving him two straight 90-reception seasons in college.

Matthews would begin the season as the No. 3 receiver behind Maclinand Cooper. Per Pro Football Focus (subscription required), last year, Kelly’s offense featured the No. 3 receiver on over 800 snaps, which was one of the highest rates in the league.

 

The addition of Darren Sproles and the continued development of Zach Ertz will ease the pressure on Matthews, but the Eagles will need a receiver who can make plays even as a first-year player.

If the Eagles wait until the 54th pick in the draft, Matthews may not be there. The ideal scenario for Roseman is that he trades back in the first round, accumulating an early second-round pick and maybe a third-round pick. That would give the Eagles four picks in the second and third rounds, and the team could pick three defensive players and Matthews.

[Larz]

villian is the draft whisperer

 

I'm following you dude, lead the way

[Villain The Foe]

villian is the draft whisperer

 

I'm following you dude, lead the way

"The Draft Whisperer"! lol. Im going to use that name! 

 

As you can see, I love this time of year. 

[Villain The Foe]

[Villain The Foe]

Food for thought for anyone concerned about Jordan Matthews 4.46 40 time and his alleged inability to separate from defenders. 

 

Is Keenan Allen's 40 Time Cause for Major Concern?

By Alen Dumonjic, Contributor Apr 14, 2013

• One example of these traits came against Washington State. It's 3rd-and-5 in the first quarter and Allen is the No. 2 receiver from the sideline-in, ready to run a square-in. Across from him is linebacker EricOertel, who lines up to the inside of Allen. This is done to prevent an inside breaking route.

  When the ball snaps, Allen takes three steps forward and then jabs his left foot outside. The jab shifted Oertel from inside to the outside, allowing Allen to freely cut inside.

   

  

   

  Now wide open, Allen catches the pass from quarterback Zach Maynard and has plenty of room to pick up yards after the catch.

  This is another area of Allen's game he excels at, though he doesn't receive enough credit for it. He's a better athlete than he's given credit for and plays faster than his timed 40-yard dashes. NFL Network's MikeMayock made a great point about Allen's playing speed following the private workout (via NFL.com). 

  Three months ago, I said -- if you watch this kid on tape -- if you like him, he's 
  Anquan Boldin
  . If you don't like him, he's speed-deficient. So I don't really care what he runs in the 40. On tape, to me, he's a 4.55 guy all day long.

  Allen's 4.55 speed on tape is a fair assessment and impressive at his size, as one can see on the play against Washington State.

  Once Allen caught the pass in stride, he made two defenders miss, kept his balance and continued running downfield.

   

  

   

  Then he made another cut to the outside and made another defender miss before finally sprinting into the end zone.

   

  

   

  Even though he scored on this play, there are two obvious things to take away from the play regarding his speed:He's not fast, but he's not slow either. He has enough speed to pick up yards after the catch, which will be vital at the next level.

  He'll be used in the slot and perimeter because it's a matchup advantage, and he has experience with it at Cal. It's similar to the way the Baltimore Ravens used Anquan Boldin in the playoffs. Boldin ran a 4.71 40-yard dash when he came out of Florida State in 2003 but obviously played faster. 

  The concerns with Boldin's speed dropped him near the bottom of the second round, where he was selected No. 54 overall by the Arizona Cardinals. Since then, Boldin's amassed more than 700 receptions and 10,000 yards.

  Not bad, right?

  Hopefully, teams learned from the Boldin mistake so they don't make the same one with Allen. Relying on stopwatches to determine the speed of a player who is not in football gear is one of the biggest mistakes teams make in the draft.

  Moreover, the concern with Allen's time shouldn't be that he ran a slower time than expected, but how healthy his knee is. He injured it in October of 2012 and has yet to fully recover. Teams should be asking how much it affected his speed, and how it will affect him moving forward.

  According to Dr. James Andrews, the knee is 100 percent but the surrounding muscles are at 75 percent (via James Dator on Twitter).

   

   

   

  It's tough to say whether it affected his speed at his workout—you can judge for yourself by watching the video to the right—but it's possible that it did. If he's not healthy yet and has issues moving forward, then how will it affect his playing speed, which Mayock suggested was 4.55?

  After watching Allen's games, it's obvious that he plays faster in pads and is quick-footed, which is more important than having long speed. He's able to get in and out of his cuts quickly and separate from defensive backs in the short and intermediate depths like the Dallas Cowboys' Miles Austin.

  If he's able to stay healthy and catch passes from various alignments for a team, he'll be well worth a first-round draft pick.

  Hopefully teams won't bypass him like they did Boldin. If MikeMayock's right about the comparison, it'll sting general managers for quite some time regardless of how fast he ran.

 

 

Jordan Matthews is a faster, taller keenan Allen. Last year Keenan Allen was the most "pro ready" WR in the draft, though he didn't have the upside or athletic ability of the guys that went ahead of him (Austin, Patterson etc.) What Allen was great at was his ability to work the football field with his route running and ball catching from the outside or slot positions. Jordan Matthews this year is the most "pro ready" WR in the draft though he doesn't have the upside or athletic ability of the guys who will most likely be drafted ahead of him (Watkins, Cooks etc.) Like Allen, Matthews can work the field with his route running and he has very good hands. Matthews can line up on the outside or slot and can do damage on the field no matter where you line him up. The difference between Matthews and Allen is that Matthews is faster than Allen and at 6'3 is taller than Allen. And also unlike Allen, Matthews has played in all 41 collegiate games and doesn't have an injury history, this is great from a guy who's basically fearless crossing the middle and has taken his share of hits. Allen probably would have been drafted higher if it wasn't for him missing the last few games due to injury. 

 

Jordan Matthews is a first round talent.