A-Hole suspended for 2014

[PFSIKH]

I'm not saying the Yankees should have to pay. That's not my "dumb argument". My argument is that the Yankees and all other teams should still have to count what they would have been paying that player against the luxury tax. And it's not a dumb argument since no one has given me an actual reason why this is except for "that's just the way it is".

 

Did you say this originally?  In this regard, I agree with you.  The Yankees knew what they were getting into with Alex.    While I agree they should be relieved of paying his salary next year due his stupidity, unlike an injury, they gave him that contract.  Much like the Patriots paying Hernandez and having 7.5 million in dead cap space this year.  They knew he had a questionable character. 

 

 

Actually, you haven't given an actual reason why it should count against the luxury tax considering the fact that the player is not getting paid and the team has been denied the benefit of the player's services for that season.

 

Again, an apples to orange comparison, but in regards to the luxury tax, yeah the Yankees should have to account for that. 

 

They were dumb enough to bid against themselves and giv ehim a huge contract....again.  They should not be rewarded for his stupidity.

[SMC]

LOL, of course the two Sawx fans agree.

"Dumb enough..." is not a valid ground. The team is not "rewarded" by the suspension, they're penalized because they lose the services of the player. So, under the Sawx fan rationalization, a team should, essentially, be penalized twice for a suspended player.

Plus, if you use the "dumb enoug" standard, it would cover a team who signs an injury prone player who then if forced to retire.

[SayNoToDMC]

Just watched the 60 Minutes piece. This is a total hatchet job by MLB, I know he did it but this is nothing more than Selig trying to reinvent his image by going after the easiest, most obnoxious, least likable target ever and Carl before you comment Im sorry the MLB wasn't able to renegotiate the CBA specifics to your liking, even if it wouldn't have made any sense

[PFSIKH]

LOL, of course the two Sawx fans agree.

"Dumb enough..." is not a valid ground. The team is not "rewarded" by the suspension, they're penalized because they lose the services of the player. So, under the Sawx fan rationalization, a team should, essentially, be penalized twice for a suspended player.

Plus, if you use the "dumb enoug" standard, it would cover a team who signs an injury prone player who then if forced to retire.

 

And shocker that Yankee Nation wants their cake (not to pay his salary) and to eat it to (not to pay luxury tax) after paying him that contract.

 

Again, it is an apples to oranges comparison due to two different salary structures.

 

Using the Patriots as an example.  The Patriots signed and then extended Hernandez.  They knew he had some character flaws.  Now, when he goes off the reservation, the Patriots are penalized.  They did not have to pay his salary, but they still had to pay his bonuses.    He will still count against the cap this year.   They cannot take his  salary cap hit and use it somewhere else.  

 

The same concept should apply to the Yankees.  They do not have to pay his salary.  Why should the Yankees receive luxury tax relief for a player they signed with character flaws?  They should not.

[SayNoToDMC]

And shocker that Yankee Nation wants their cake (not to pay his salary) and to eat it to (not to pay luxury tax) after paying him that contract.

Again, it is an apples to oranges comparison due to two different salary structures.

Using the Patriots as an example. The Patriots signed and then extended Hernandez. They knew he had some character flaws. Now, when he goes off the reservation, the Patriots are penalized. They did not have to pay his salary, but they still had to pay his bonuses. He will still count against the cap this year. They cannot take his salary cap hit and use it somewhere else.

The same concept should apply to the Yankees. They do not have to pay his salary. Why should the Yankees receive luxury tax relief for a player they signed with character flaws? They should not.

Baseball and football contracts are in no way similar, Why don't you tell me about how golfer or windsurfing contracts work next? They have almost as much relevance

[Matt39]

And shocker that Yankee Nation wants their cake (not to pay his salary) and to eat it to (not to pay luxury tax) after paying him that contract.

 

Again, it is an apples to oranges comparison due to two different salary structures.

 

Using the Patriots as an example.  The Patriots signed and then extended Hernandez.  They knew he had some character flaws.  Now, when he goes off the reservation, the Patriots are penalized.  They did not have to pay his salary, but they still had to pay his bonuses.    He will still count against the cap this year.   They cannot take his  salary cap hit and use it somewhere else.  

 

The same concept should apply to the Yankees.  They do not have to pay his salary.  Why should the Yankees receive luxury tax relief for a player they signed with character flaws?  They should not.

 

I actually want Arod in the lineup opening day.

[Bugg]

I actually want Arod in the lineup opening day.

He's better than Kelly Johnson or Sizemore.

[PFSIKH]

Baseball and football contracts are in no way similar, Why don't you tell me about how golfer or windsurfing contracts work next? They have almost as much relevance

 

And that is why I qualified it with "apples to oranges" genius.

 

While the structures of each league is different, there is one common thread.  Both leagues have to pay the guaranteed money.

 

The Yankees are benefiting, as they should, from not having to pay Alex's salary.

 

Seeing they are the idiots that signed him to the contract, why should they benefit that he is a bigger idiot?  They should not.

[SayNoToDMC]

And that is why I qualified it with "apples to oranges" genius.

While the structures of each league is different, there is one common thread. Both leagues have to pay the guaranteed money.

The Yankees are benefiting, as they should, from not having to pay Alex's salary.

Seeing they are the idiots that signed him to the contract, why should they benefit that he is a bigger idiot? They should not.

I was just saying you're smart, Yankees are behind all the evils in the world.

[SMC]

And shocker that Yankee Nation wants their cake (not to pay his salary) and to eat it to (not to pay luxury tax) after paying him that contract.

Again, it is an apples to oranges comparison due to two different salary structures.

Using the Patriots as an example. The Patriots signed and then extended Hernandez. They knew he had some character flaws. Now, when he goes off the reservation, the Patriots are penalized. They did not have to pay his salary, but they still had to pay his bonuses. He will still count against the cap this year. They cannot take his salary cap hit and use it somewhere else.

The same concept should apply to the Yankees. They do not have to pay his salary. Why should the Yankees receive luxury tax relief for a player they signed with character flaws? They should not.

Your Hernandez situation is no way similar because the Pats cut him. He wasn't suspended for the year.

[Maxman]

Let's not start this. This is a terrible argument, which is par for the course with you. Can't come up with anything worth a damn in your point so you divert to something that isn't relevant.

The Yankees signed him, they should have to deal with the repercussions.

 

This makes no sense.  The Yankees signed ARod.  ARod cheated and isn't going to play this year.  So what exactly should happen?  The Yankees save the money.

 

That is how it works.

[Maxman]

Good for business, bad for business.

I have no doubt that Rodriguez used PEDs. But as of right now he and his buddy David Arias Ortiz only tested positive in the supposed to be never released MLB test of 2003. Bug Papi's late life rebirth was chemically aided,strongly suspsect his curreent productivity also has to do with getting a little help. Once again, as with McGwire and Sosa, right now Ortiz is good for business, Rodriguez is bad for business. Reality is a lot of MLBers and pro athletes are using something. And the medical technology is getting better every day, And it's no longer some half asssed wiseguy at the local gym with a duffel bag of syringes, it's legimate doctors. Mark Madson of the Angels petitioned MLB to use HGH as a legitmate medical treatment to heal an injury; he was refused. But for how long can MLB say this course of treatment is banned if people in regular life use them all the time?

Bob Costas in on MLBN babbling about all this. But here is a paragon of society who thought Kirby Puckett was such a great guy he named his son after him.He also worked with noted wife beater OJ SImpson.In each case either Costas looked the other way rather than tell the public what awful people these guys were. Until of course it became clear Puckett was a very troubled/very bad guy , and OJ, well. Now the name Kirby Puckett doesn't cross his lips any more; wonder if he even sent flowers to the funeral. Bad for business.Did Kirby Costas change his name?

And we are to believe that Robby Cano's BS foundation spokeswoman just happened to be in Bosch's list of customers because middle aged ladies living in FLorida are bid roid heads. Again, Cano is for now seen as good for business.

 

What was wrong with Kirby Puckett?

[Maxman]

I'm not saying the Yankees should have to pay. That's not my "dumb argument". My argument is that the Yankees and all other teams should still have to count what they would have been paying that player against the luxury tax. And it's not a dumb argument since no one has given me an actual reason why this is except for "that's just the way it is".

 

LOL, this makes no sense.  The dollars you pay are what counts towards the luxury tax.  The Yankees aren't paying these dollars.  That is why they don't count.

[Maxman]

And shocker that Yankee Nation wants their cake (not to pay his salary) and to eat it to (not to pay luxury tax) after paying him that contract.

 

Again, it is an apples to oranges comparison due to two different salary structures.

 

Using the Patriots as an example.  The Patriots signed and then extended Hernandez.  They knew he had some character flaws.  Now, when he goes off the reservation, the Patriots are penalized.  They did not have to pay his salary, but they still had to pay his bonuses.    He will still count against the cap this year.   They cannot take his  salary cap hit and use it somewhere else.  

 

The same concept should apply to the Yankees.  They do not have to pay his salary.  Why should the Yankees receive luxury tax relief for a player they signed with character flaws?  They should not.

 

The Patriots cut Hernandez.  This is not the same thing.  Not even close.

[Maxman]

I actually want Arod in the lineup opening day.

 

True.  Here is what Yankees fans want.  They want ARod to be int he 800 HR club all by himself.

 

That isn't going to happen.  He got suspended.  So MLB follows normal accounting guidelines on the luxury tax and it seems to make sense to everyone but two Red Sox fans lol.

[SayNoToDMC]

True.  Here is what Yankees fans want.  They want ARod to be int he 800 HR club all by himself.

 

That isn't going to happen.  He got suspended.  So MLB follows normal accounting guidelines on the luxury tax and it seems to make sense to everyone but two Red Sox fans lol.

 

This has nothing to do with the Red Sox/Yankees. Just answer Carl's question and don't involve finance, accounting, reason or the bargaining agreement while doing so.

[Bugg]

What was wrong with Kirby Puckett?ESPN-. Kirby Puckett

Beloved by Twins fans and baseball partisans everywhere, Puckett was voted Baseball's Best Role Model and Friendliest Player when Baseball America surveyed fans in 1993. He won all kinds of awards for his off-the-field contributions: The Branch Rickey Award for service to his community, the Roberto Clemente Man of the Year Award, etc. Then last October, Puckett was charged with felony false imprisonment and gross misdemeanor sexual conduct. Plus both his ex-wife and his mistress accused him of cheating on them.

And there was violence. His ex-wife told SI, "Over the years ... Puckett had also tried to strangle her with an electrical cord, locked her in the basement and used a power saw to cut through a door after she had locked herself in a room. Once, she said, he even put a cocked gun to her head while she was holding their young daughter."

Puckett was found not guilty on all charges in his trial, but the damage to his reputation may be irreparable.

N-

. Kirby Puckett

Beloved by Twins fans and baseball partisans everywhere, Puckett was voted Baseball's Best Role Model and Friendliest Player when Baseball America surveyed fans in 1993. He won all kinds of awards for his off-the-field contributions: The Branch Rickey Award for service to his community, the Roberto Clemente Man of the Year Award, etc. Then last October, Puckett was charged with felony false imprisonment and gross misdemeanor sexual conduct. Plus both his ex-wife and his mistress accused him of cheating on them.

And there was violence. His ex-wife told SI, "Over the years ... Puckett had also tried to strangle her with an electrical cord, locked her in the basement and used a power saw to cut through a door after she had locked herself in a room. Once, she said, he even put a cocked gun to her head while she was holding their young daughter."

Puckett was found not guilty on all charges in his trial, but the damage to his reputation may be irreparable.

[Bob]

Let's not start this. This is a terrible argument, which is par for the course with you. Can't come up with anything worth a damn in your point so you divert to something that isn't relevant.

The Yankees signed him, they should have to deal with the repercussions.

 

This is hilarious. "I can trash your alleged 'roid user, but mine is off limits."

 

BTW - Rodriguez is going to win in federal court.

[Thor99]

It's just a crappy system. Team X gets the benefit of inflated numbers from a PED user. When that player gets caught and suspended, team X gets the benefit of not having that player count against payroll.

Teams are almost better off encouraging the use of PEDs.

[Maxman]

This is hilarious. "I can trash your alleged 'roid user, but mine is off limits."

 

BTW - Rodriguez is going to win in federal court.

 

Do you really think so?

[Maxman]

It's just a crappy system. Team X gets the benefit of inflated numbers from a PED user. When that player gets caught and suspended, team X gets the benefit of not having that player count against payroll.

Teams are almost better off encouraging the use of PEDs.

 

Not disagreeing with that.

 

But that said, the Yankees are off the hook for ARods salary.  And that is how it should be.

[SayNoToDMC]

Do you really think so?

I like his chances to embarrass Selig here, he didn't actually fail any test related to MLB. Buying a witness might work in arbitration. I don't see how that's going to work in federal court.

[CrazyCarl40]

This is hilarious. "I can trash your alleged 'roid user, but mine is off limits."

 

BTW - Rodriguez is going to win in federal court.

 

Where did I trash A-Rod? I personally think A-Rod is getting hosed and MLB is messing this whole thing up epically.

 

I think he wins too.

[PFSIKH]

This is hilarious. "I can trash your alleged 'roid user, but mine is off limits."

 

BTW - Rodriguez is going to win in federal court.

 

That goes with out saying. 

 

The Patriots cut Hernandez.  This is not the same thing.  Not even close.

 

That is why I have said it is an apples to orange comparison Max. 

 

And this is why it applies.

 

Both leagues have a mechanism to limit player salaries.  While their respective systems are different, the total salary counts against towards these limits.  In the NFL, a suspended  does not get paid, but the still count against the cap. 

 

MLB should have a similar system. 

[SayNoToDMC]

That goes with out saying.

That is why I have said it is an apples to orange comparison Max.

And this is why it applies.

Both leagues have a mechanism to limit player salaries. While their respective systems are different, the total salary counts against towards these limits. In the NFL, a suspended does not get paid, but the still count against the cap.

MLB should have a similar system.

Tell me about the KHL or MLS next since we're not taking contract or cap structure into account. What would have happened if Arod was suspended from the NY Liberty instead?

[CrazyCarl40]

Tell me about the KHL or MLS next since we're not taking contract or cap structure into account. What would have happened if Arod was suspended from the NY Liberty instead?

So the system can't be changed?

[Thor99]

So the system can't be changed?

Or should be?

[SayNoToDMC]

So the system can't be changed?

Sure, are you and the other Red Sox fans negotiating the next CBA? cause it doesn't make a ton of sense for anybody else. This is Selig trying to save his legacy by going to ridiculous lengths to take down the biggest target in baseball. Half the league is on something. A Rod has been caught violating the MLB steroid program as many times as me. I'm hoping this gets aired out in federal court, Selig is going to look like an idiot.

[CrazyCarl40]

Sure, are you and the other Red Sox fans negotiating the next CBA? cause it doesn't make a ton of sense for anybody else. This is Selig trying to save his legacy by going to ridiculous lengths to take down the biggest target in baseball. Half the league is on something. A Rod has been caught violating the MLB steroid program as many times as me. I'm hoping this gets aired out in federal court, Selig is going to look like an idiot.

 

Too late.

[Maxman]

Sure, are you and the other Red Sox fans negotiating the next CBA? cause it doesn't make a ton of sense for anybody else. This is Selig trying to save his legacy by going to ridiculous lengths to take down the biggest target in baseball. Half the league is on something. A Rod has been caught violating the MLB steroid program as many times as me. I'm hoping this gets aired out in federal court, Selig is going to look like an idiot.

 

Federal court will uphold this.  When that, "go to Columbia" thing gets looked into, ARod will be glad if a baseball suspension is the worst of his problems.

[SayNoToDMC]

Federal court will uphold this. When that, "go to Columbia" thing gets looked into, ARod will be glad if a baseball suspension is the worst of his problems.

I wouldn't be so sure, there are rules to gathering evidence in real world courts and Selig put together his own group of ex FBI and Secret service to chase down one guy and they didn't have to follow any of those protocols. Not to mention how reliable is the bought witness in federal court, that has done a 360 from a year ago? I know A Rod is full of sh*t but rules are you fail a test and you're out. I just want it heard in federal court so I can hear Selig explain why he doesn't have his personal Gestapo going after anyone else in a league where A Rod proved testing negative means nothing

[Maxman]

I thought this was interesting based on what others have said in this thread.

 

https://twitter.com/corryjoel/status/423878834526502912

 

If Aaron Hernandez is implicated in the double murder, contract language gives the Pats grounds to recoup his entire $12.5M signing bonus.

[PFSIKH]

I thought this was interesting based on what others have said in this thread.

 

https://twitter.com/corryjoel/status/423878834526502912

 

If Aaron Hernandez is implicated in the double murder, contract language gives the Pats grounds to recoup his entire $12.5M signing bonus.

 

Not to make light of the situation, but it takes two murders?

[SayNoToDMC]

Not to make light of the situation, but it takes two murders?

Maybe you guys should add something to the contract language this time around when you resign Talib. Hernandez being a scumbag wasnt exactly a huge secret

[PFSIKH]

Maybe you guys should add something to the contract language this time around when you resign Talib. Hernandez being a scumbag wasnt exactly a huge secret

 

That is the is the most inexplicable thing to me.  How the F do you not have that in the contract?