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Luck Yes, Ge...No for Jet Fans?


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#51 artemusclyde

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 09:44 PM

I believe that maybe for the first 7 or 8 games, they were actually trying to win, but once it became evident that season was basically hopeless and Manning was gone, that in reality, for the last half of the season with LUCK at the top of the draft, that they made as little as effort as possible without looking like they were out and out tanking, but make no mistake, they were getting LUCK, no matter how many losses it took.

 

Well obviously they quit. The team just wasn't good and they were getting whopped on in games. They basically were completely demoralized that year. Same thing happened this year when Rodgers went down, suddenly the team sucked. 


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#52 Villain The Foe

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 09:51 PM

I believe that maybe for the first 7 or 8 games, they were actually trying to win, but once it became evident that season was basically hopeless and Manning was gone, that in reality, for the last half of the season with LUCK at the top of the draft, that they made as little as effort as possible without looking like they were out and out tanking, but make no mistake, they were getting LUCK, no matter how many losses it took.

I mostly agree. I think it was way earlier than just halfway through the season. It looked like they felt Peyton's injury came at a great time regarding youth. They would be able to get what most considered a "sure thing" and be able to trade Peyton for top price. 

They were thinking Luck way before that 7th or 8th game my dude. 


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#53 kelticwizard

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 12:50 AM

Good post.  Stuck your neck out there but it had to be said. 

 

Funny how Geno's winning enough as long as he has a actual NFL receiver in Kerley.  Kerley goes down, all Geno has to throw to is a bunch of guys Manpower sent over and so Geno sucks.  Then Kerley comes back, Geno develops a rapport with David Nelson and suddenly he's okay again, winning 3 of the last 4.

 

Give Geno some people to throw to, then judge.


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#54 pedro55

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 03:03 AM

I mostly agree. I think it was way earlier than just halfway through the season. It looked like they felt Peyton's injury came at a great time regarding youth. They would be able to get what most considered a "sure thing" and be able to trade Peyton for top price. 

They were thinking Luck way before that 7th or 8th game my dude. 

 

 I don't think that's the case at all unless everybody on that team knew they were going to be fired.   Polian wasn't planning on getting fired and tanking the season.  He might have still drafted Luck, but Manning would have probably still been a Colt.   

 

 People act like cutting Peyton Manning was such an easy thing.   Yeah he had an injury, but there was no guarantee that Luck would be this good this early. Everybody assumed, but it's the NFL,  there have been far more busts or avg players than potential great QBs.   And if it took Luck 4-5 years to Develop while Manning is still competing to win super bowls every year,  the Colts would look like idiots.      

 

 Everybody looks at it now as a good thing because they've won a division and been to the playoffs two years in a row.  If the Colts went 8-8 in Luck's rookie season and they missed the playoffs,   people wouldn't think the same thing.  And if this year they would have gone 9-7 and missed the playoffs again while Manning is in the AFC Championship game or beyond,   people would be killing them.  

 

 Nobody kills you when your team wins, but there is no guarantee that you would.   I mean it took the 49ers a long time to actually win a super bowl with Steve Young after they dumped Montana.   The raiders never did a damn thing after pushing Marcus Allen to the bench and then finally trading him away.       It's never easy to just dump a HOF player who still has years left.   Did anybody think Manning would throw 55 TDs this year?   Probably not.  But did anybody actually believe a guy like Manning would not?    

 

Having Manning as your QB pretty much guarantees that your team is going to be the #1 or #2 seed.     Having Luck guaranteed nothing.  Even sure things like Manning took a few years to win.     

 

 And being most of Colts land got fired after that year, it's pretty hard to imagine they just wanted to tank so they could all get fired, so the team could draft Luck, and they go and find new coaches, GMs, scouts, etc.    yeah sounds like a legit plan.     Maybe an owner wants that, but what coach or GM or player would?      

 

 And it's funny people are giving the Jets all the credit for winning 2 out of their last 3 games and yet the Colts tanked in a season where they won 2 out of their last 3 games.  And being they could have wound up with the 3rd pick instead of the first because of winning,  hard to imagine it was all about tanking.  Going 0-16 or even 1-15 guaranteed #1.  Guess the coaches and players missed the memo.   Interesting.   


Edited by pedro55, 13 January 2014 - 03:07 AM.

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#55 j4jets

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 05:42 AM

Bottom 5:
Schaub
Gabbert
Henne
Manuel
Smith


So if we traded for Chad Henne, we'd be upgrading the QB position?
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#56 artemusclyde

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 06:58 AM

 I don't think that's the case at all unless everybody on that team knew they were going to be fired.   Polian wasn't planning on getting fired and tanking the season.  He might have still drafted Luck, but Manning would have probably still been a Colt.   

 

 People act like cutting Peyton Manning was such an easy thing.   Yeah he had an injury, but there was no guarantee that Luck would be this good this early. Everybody assumed, but it's the NFL,  there have been far more busts or avg players than potential great QBs.   And if it took Luck 4-5 years to Develop while Manning is still competing to win super bowls every year,  the Colts would look like idiots.      

 

 Everybody looks at it now as a good thing because they've won a division and been to the playoffs two years in a row.  If the Colts went 8-8 in Luck's rookie season and they missed the playoffs,   people wouldn't think the same thing.  And if this year they would have gone 9-7 and missed the playoffs again while Manning is in the AFC Championship game or beyond,   people would be killing them.  

 

 Nobody kills you when your team wins, but there is no guarantee that you would.   I mean it took the 49ers a long time to actually win a super bowl with Steve Young after they dumped Montana.   The raiders never did a damn thing after pushing Marcus Allen to the bench and then finally trading him away.       It's never easy to just dump a HOF player who still has years left.   Did anybody think Manning would throw 55 TDs this year?   Probably not.  But did anybody actually believe a guy like Manning would not?    

 

Having Manning as your QB pretty much guarantees that your team is going to be the #1 or #2 seed.     Having Luck guaranteed nothing.  Even sure things like Manning took a few years to win.     

 

 And being most of Colts land got fired after that year, it's pretty hard to imagine they just wanted to tank so they could all get fired, so the team could draft Luck, and they go and find new coaches, GMs, scouts, etc.    yeah sounds like a legit plan.     Maybe an owner wants that, but what coach or GM or player would?      

 

 And it's funny people are giving the Jets all the credit for winning 2 out of their last 3 games and yet the Colts tanked in a season where they won 2 out of their last 3 games.  And being they could have wound up with the 3rd pick instead of the first because of winning,  hard to imagine it was all about tanking.  Going 0-16 or even 1-15 guaranteed #1.  Guess the coaches and players missed the memo.   Interesting.   

 

This is the exact point I'm trying to get across. Nobody tanks in the NFL. The NFL is a win now business and losing is what get's you fired. Job security in the NFL is hard to come by so no front office, coaching staff, or players are going to sign on to tanking. Honestly, could you imagine a team trying to tell their players to suck on purpose when a lot of these players are fighting for a contract? It would be ugly.


Edited by artemusclyde, 13 January 2014 - 07:04 AM.

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#57 artemusclyde

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 06:59 AM

Good post.  Stuck your neck out there but it had to be said. 

 

Funny how Geno's winning enough as long as he has a actual NFL receiver in Kerley.  Kerley goes down, all Geno has to throw to is a bunch of guys Manpower sent over and so Geno sucks.  Then Kerley comes back, Geno develops a rapport with David Nelson and suddenly he's okay again, winning 3 of the last 4.

 

Give Geno some people to throw to, then judge.

 

4/10 for 29 yards against the Dolphins. 8/19 for like 120 yards against the Saints. Franchise qb right their, amirite?

 

Geno's setting the world on fire with those numbers.


Edited by artemusclyde, 13 January 2014 - 07:02 AM.

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#58 artemusclyde

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 07:11 AM

Honestly have you guys forgotten Herm Edwards "you play to win the game" rant? That should seal the deal on the argument about tanking.


Edited by artemusclyde, 13 January 2014 - 07:14 AM.

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#59 Lupz27

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 07:54 AM

The Colts supporting cast leaves much to be desired.

 

This, that game was going to won in the trenches because of the weather, and TBH the Jets probaly could have won this week in foxborough, this league is all about who you matchup well with, and without Wilfork,and Gronk, and in that type of weather the Jets are built to win that game, even against T Brady, and Belicheck, this years 2 games VS them is evidence to back that up.


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#60 joewillie78

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 08:15 AM

I mostly agree. I think it was way earlier than just halfway through the season. It looked like they felt Peyton's injury came at a great time regarding youth. They would be able to get what most considered a "sure thing" and be able to trade Peyton for top price. 

They were thinking Luck way before that 7th or 8th game my dude. 

Your probably right.


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#61 Jetsfan80

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 08:15 AM

Elway and Peyton at one time were called "playoff chokers" too.  How'd that work out?  Luck will eventually be known as one of the top 3 QB's of the post-Brady/Manning generation, if not the best.


Edited by Jetsfan80, 13 January 2014 - 08:15 AM.

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#62 joewillie78

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 08:16 AM

So if we traded for Chad Henne, we'd be upgrading the QB position?

Barely.


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#63 joewillie78

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 08:20 AM

Elway and Peyton at one time were called "playoff chokers" too.  How'd that work out?  Luck will eventually be known as one of the top 3 QB's of the post-Brady/Manning generation, if not the best.

Could not agree more. Luck is one of those that you just know has IT. We knew it with Peyton, Elway, etc no matter how much they may have struggled early. You just knew they were great, just like LUCK. That dude is tough, is fearleass, can make all the throws and LOVES the pressure and the big spot. He is great, period.

 

Then you have the exact opposite, the ones that you know dont have it, are just bad, and will be perpetual backups, and unfortunately, the past 2 the Jets have had fit that description to a tee. Time for the Jets to try again. period.


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#64 Jetsfan80

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 08:21 AM

So if we traded for Chad Henne, we'd be upgrading the QB position?

 

1.  He's a UFA, so we won't be trading anything, unless you're counting a potential 6th or 7th round compensatory pick in 2015.

 

2.  We're not finding a starter in free agency this year.  Unless you have an elite QB most teams these days recognize the need to hang onto a decent backup at the right price.  All we're looking for is a guy who can step in if needed and not be a total dumpster fire like a Mark Brunell or Matt Simms.  Henne would fit the bill there.


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#65 slowmoe57

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 11:52 AM

Man, its like you SOJF's just dont get it. Let me slow it down for you.

 

 

You said that Luck was being asked to do more than Wilson. Thats stupid. They're both asked to win football games. Wilson is going to his 2nd NFCCG in 2 years and has a 16-1 record at home. 

 

So if you want to go with your logic then based on the fact that Geno had absolutely nothing on offense yet the Colts only won 2 more games than the Jets then I could say something equally as stupid. Not that it would make the statement true of course. MY apologies for stooping to that level of logic. 

Wilson is better than Luck because at the end of the day he's leaving it on the field and its producing W's and playoff wins. Luck is throwing 8 INT's to just 6 TD's and is barely completing over 50% of his passes in his playoff games which is 1-3 by the way. 

Wilson lost to the Falcons in the divisionals last year.   Carry on.


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#66 j4jets

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 08:50 PM

1. He's a UFA, so we won't be trading anything, unless you're counting a potential 6th or 7th round compensatory pick in 2015.

2. We're not finding a starter in free agency this year. Unless you have an elite QB most teams these days recognize the need to hang onto a decent backup at the right price. All we're looking for is a guy who can step in if needed and not be a total dumpster fire like a Mark Brunell or Matt Simms. Henne would fit the bill there.


I was trying to be funny but let's assume I wasn't. I agree with #1. But not #2. The Jags have excellent skill ayers on the offense, unlike the Jets. Henne did light up the nfl with em. He has reached his maximum potential IMO. He might be marginally better than Geno Smith but Geno's potential is far better than Henne.

Do we keep forgetting we had a rookie QB with no offensive player??
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#67 HessStation

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 08:54 PM

It's his second year. This thread sucks. Be ashamed of yourself.  


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#68 johnnysd

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:10 PM

I agree with you 100%, but few will. Luck was anointed as the next "guy" so people see that. He is certainly talented and his size extends a lot of plays like Rapelisburger. But I am not that impressed with him as a QB, for the exact reasons you mention. The Colts get behind, often BECAUSE of Luck, then teams go soft, he throws every down to very very underrrated skill players, and they catch up, But he's Luck and already in the hall of fame according to many so thats what they see. Geno on the other hand is the exact opposite. He was branded a bust before camp and no matter what good he does people refuse to see that he could be a franchise guy. 


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#69 johnnysd

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:12 PM

Elway and Peyton at one time were called "playoff chokers" too.  How'd that work out?  Luck will eventually be known as one of the top 3 QB's of the post-Brady/Manning generation, if not the best.

 

No he won't. I just don't see it.


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#70 Matt39

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:12 PM

I agree with you 100%, but few will. Luck was anointed as the next "guy" so people see that. He is certainly talented and his size extends a lot of plays like Rapelisburger. But I am not that impressed with him as a QB, for the exact reasons you mention. The Colts get behind, often BECAUSE of Luck, then teams go soft, he throws every down to very very underrrated skill players, and they catch up, But he's Luck and already in the hall of fame according to many so thats what they see. Geno on the other hand is the exact opposite. He was branded a bust before camp and no matter what good he does people refuse to see that he could be a franchise guy. 

 

Yep.


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#71 CrazyCarl40

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:16 PM

No he won't. I just don't see it.


Well I guess we'll just have to take your word for it and ignore all facts and rational thought put together by actual football minds.

I'd love to hear who you think is the best QB under 26 right now.
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#72 joewillie78

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:18 PM

I agree with you 100%, but few will. Luck was anointed as the next "guy" so people see that. He is certainly talented and his size extends a lot of plays like Rapelisburger. But I am not that impressed with him as a QB, for the exact reasons you mention. The Colts get behind, often BECAUSE of Luck, then teams go soft, he throws every down to very very underrrated skill players, and they catch up, But he's Luck and already in the hall of fame according to many so thats what they see. Geno on the other hand is the exact opposite. He was branded a bust before camp and no matter what good he does people refuse to see that he could be a franchise guy. 

When the Colts get behind "because of LUCK" (which is ludicrous in itself), at least you dont shut the TV off and head for the fridge, as the dude, has had some incredible comebacks already in his career (in the playoffs), whereas when we get behind with Geno, the other teams "panic" run the ball into the line 3 times and then punt, as that is a great strategy against Geno and this offense.

 

Yes, I have annointed LUCK, and also have annointed Geno, but unfortunately each resides at the opposite ends of the spectrum.


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#73 joewillie78

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:19 PM

Well I guess we'll just have to take your word for it and ignore all facts and rational thought put together by actual football minds.

I'd love to hear who you think is the best QB under 26 right now.

Best under 26 right now:

1. Luck

2. Wilson

3. Kaepenick

4. Bridgewater

5. Manziel


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#74 Matt39

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:21 PM

Well I guess we'll just have to take your word for it and ignore all facts and rational thought put together by actual football minds.

I'd love to hear who you think is the best QB under 26 right now.

 

There's no clear guy out of Wilson, Luck, Cam and Kaepernick


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#75 joewillie78

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:24 PM

There's no clear guy out of Wilson, Luck, Cam and Kaepernick

Yes their is.


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