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The Saints in salary cap hell


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#1 stoicsentry

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 01:57 PM

The Saints are about $12 million dollars over the cap. That in and of itself is not the end of the world, as moves can always be made to get them under.

 

The problem is that they cannot let Jimmy Graham walk... they can't and they won't. Even in a best case scenario, though, they will have to give him a $5m raise or more, putting them in an even worse position. They also have to sign a few of their other players. They don't even have that many guys that they can get big time relief from cutting.

 

Be prepared to raid the Saints for talent. Possible cuts:

 

Will Smith

Darren Sproles

Jabari Greer

Pierre Thomas

Roman Harper

Mark Ingram

 

 

Anyone you like?


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#2 Gastineau Lives

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 02:00 PM

Greer.
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#3 Greenseed4

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 02:10 PM

I second the Greer.

 

But would also settle for their entire backfield. 


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#4 Jetsfan80

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 02:11 PM

I second the Greer.

 

But would also settle for their entire backfield. 

 

What do Sproles, Ingram and Thomas do that Ivory, Goodson and Powell can't?  Please factor Drew Brees into your response.


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#5 joewillie78

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 02:21 PM

The Saints are about $12 million dollars over the cap. That in and of itself is not the end of the world, as moves can always be made to get them under.

 

The problem is that they cannot let Jimmy Graham walk... they can't and they won't. Even in a best case scenario, though, they will have to give him a $5m raise or more, putting them in an even worse position. They also have to sign a few of their other players. They don't even have that many guys that they can get big time relief from cutting.

 

Be prepared to raid the Saints for talent. Possible cuts:

 

Will Smith

Darren Sproles

Jabari Greer

Pierre Thomas

Roman Harper

Mark Ingram

 

 

Anyone you like?

Wont they just TAG Graham? Or does he have a clause in his contract where they cant use the Tag?


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#6 Smashmouth

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 02:25 PM

What do Sproles, Ingram and Thomas do that Ivory, Goodson and Powell can't?  Please factor Drew Brees into your response.

different system.... Brees completes 150 plus passes to his backs every single year its the reason for his insanely high comp percentage.  I wish the Jets would adopt this type of short passing game system that the Saints run . Sproles is a bit past his prime and has caught 90 balls in a season Thomas is an all around good back ,,, I agree our backs can get it done but I would love to see the Jets draft a Dynamic rookie RB who can be a real double threat. Balanced ball control offense and solid defense has always been my preference let the Saints keep their backs we need young guys back there


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#7 Greenseed4

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 02:31 PM

What do Sproles, Ingram and Thomas do that Ivory, Goodson and Powell can't?  Please factor Drew Brees into your response.

 

I honestly forgot about Goodson.  Two games, seven rushes will do that to you. 

 

But when your starting tandem of RBs only has 4 TDs between them (on a rushing-based team)...upgrades shouldn't be neglected. 


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#8 Jetsfan80

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 02:33 PM

I honestly forgot about Goodson.  Two games, seven rushes will do that to you. 

 

But when your starting tandem of RBs only has 4 TDs between them (on a rushing-based team)...upgrades shouldn't be neglected. 

 

Sounds to me like the bigger problems are the QB and the O-line.  Teams were stacking the box on our rookie QB.  Austin Howard and Colon were basically worthless in the running game all season, and Brian Winters was equally worthless until the final quarter of the season.  Meanwhile, Nick Mangold hasn't been playing like a top 5 center for about 2-3 years.

 

Yet Chris Ivory still had 4.6 ypc and was one of the better "yards after contact" guys, because he's a beast.


Edited by Jetsfan80, 20 January 2014 - 02:34 PM.

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#9 Integrity28

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 02:34 PM

I'll take Brees and Graham, you can keep the rest.


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#10 stoicsentry

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 02:36 PM

Wont they just TAG Graham? Or does he have a clause in his contract where they cant use the Tag?

 

Either they will tag him or they will work out a long-term deal. My understanding is that if they tag him, that money still counts against the salary cap. Is that incorrect?

 

If it is correct, then he made a little more than $1 million this year, but under a tag he would be receiving at least $6 million. That's presuming they can tag him as a TE, if they have to tag him as a WR, then it would be even more.

 

That's where I got the plus $5 million dollar figure.


Edited by stoicsentry, 20 January 2014 - 02:36 PM.

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#11 joewillie78

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 02:38 PM

Either they will tag him or they will work out a long-term deal. My understanding is that if they tag him, that money still counts against the salary cap. Is that incorrect?

 

If it is correct, then he made a little more than $1 million this year, but under a tag he would be receiving at least $6 million. That's presuming they can tag him as a TE, if they have to tag him as a WR, then it would be even more.

 

That's where I got the plus $5 million dollar figure.

Thanks, and I'm almost positive Tagged money goes toward the Cap.

 

Who else on that list would they tag? Sproles possibly but I doubt it, and maybe Greer, but thats about it.


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#12 Greenseed4

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 02:43 PM

Sounds to me like the bigger problems are the QB and the O-line.  Teams were stacking the box on our rookie QB.  Austin Howard and Colon were basically worthless in the running game all season, and Brian Winters was equally worthless until the final quarter of the season.  Meanwhile, Nick Mangold hasn't been playing like a top 5 center for about 2-3 years.

 

Yet Chris Ivory still had 4.6 ypc and was one of the better "yards after contact" guys, because he's a beast.

 

Chris Ivory is a beast...He's like a Lynch that gets caught from behind; hence his short TD count (3)

But his history and running style has shown that we shouldn't rely on his legs to carry us through a season.  

 

I don't know if Goodson can be that guy, but I sure wouldn't mind a slasher that can catch and break off long runs (McCoy, Charles, Spiller even, basically any RB that was drafted in the first two rounds of FF) 


Edited by Greenseed4, 20 January 2014 - 02:44 PM.

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#13 brian101193

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 02:59 PM

Would you guys trade for Graham? He is a RFA and like you said N.O. can't afford to keep him but dont want to let him walk for nothing, i wonder what the best TE in the league is worth in trade value.


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#14 stoicsentry

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 03:04 PM

Thanks, and I'm almost positive Tagged money goes toward the Cap.

 

Who else on that list would they tag? Sproles possibly but I doubt it, and maybe Greer, but thats about it.

 

No problem. I'll let someone who knows more about the cap answer that, but my guess is that they would be hard pressed to franchise anyone considering their current cap situation. Graham would only be franchised because you simply can't let a guy like that walk away. But I doubt that they'll feel the same way about anyone else.


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#15 Jetsfan80

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 03:36 PM

Would you guys trade for Graham? He is a RFA and like you said N.O. can't afford to keep him but dont want to let him walk for nothing, i wonder what the best TE in the league is worth in trade value.

 

It's almost next to impossible to get him without paying WR1 money and giving up a lot of picks to New Orleans.  I'd still do it if it were possible though.  He's THAT good.


Edited by Jetsfan80, 20 January 2014 - 03:36 PM.

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#16 SenorGato

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 04:23 PM

Can we has Malcolm Jenkins?
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#17 #27TheDominator

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 04:53 PM

The Saints do not have to tag any of those other guys because they are not FAs.  Of course franchise tagged money counts against the cap.  The interesting thing with Graham is that they are probably going to argue that he was a WR and try to get that tagged figure which is $4.5M more than the TE tag.  That will put the Saints deeper into it. Sproles might be a nice add, but he makes a lot


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#18 NCJETSFAN

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 05:09 PM

Here's a. Question. If you were jimmy graham why would u come to the jets. There will be a line of teams. That he could go to and make the same money
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#19 BurnleyJet

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 05:16 PM

Idzik is an NFC guy, interesting to see what he thinks of these guys?
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#20 Larz

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 06:03 PM

graham is soft.  not worth a bazillion dollars


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#21 stoicsentry

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 07:19 PM

Here's a. Question. If you were jimmy graham why would u come to the jets. There will be a line of teams. That he could go to and make the same money

 

Jimmy Graham probably won't be a free agent. If he was, though?

 

We don't know how much Idzik would be willing to offer him, so we can't say with certainty that the Jets would make the best offer.

 

However, it is certainly possible that the Jets would make the best offer, because the Jets will have one of the best cap situations in the league next year. So there's no reason why Idzik couldn't make the best offer if he really wanted to do so. It just depends on how much he's willing to pay.

 

It's very unlikely that there would be a "line of teams" willing to offer the same money. For one thing, there isn't a "line of teams" that have as much room under the cap as the Jets will. And even among that group, not all of them will have a desperate need at tight end to the extent that the Jets do.

 

You recently asked this question about Maclin, so that makes me think you don't understand the Jets current cap situation. It's great. They have a lot of money to spend.


Edited by stoicsentry, 20 January 2014 - 07:21 PM.

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#22 Larz

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 07:28 PM

Here's a. Question. If you were jimmy graham why would u come to the jets. There will be a line of teams. That he could go to and make the same money

 

just considering leaving means he doesn't care who the QB is or the coach, he just wants to get paid, so highest bidder with most guaranteed money and up front bonus money wins


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#23 T0mShane

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 07:29 PM

I think Jets fans have convinced themselves that they're the only team in the league with tons of cap space. In fact, they're not. According to this Joel Corry article, there are at least ten teams with better cap situations.

http://mweb.cbssport...y-cap-situation
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#24 denden29

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 07:36 PM

No problem. I'll let someone who knows more about the cap answer that, but my guess is that they would be hard pressed to franchise anyone considering their current cap situation. Graham would only be franchised because you simply can't let a guy like that walk away. But I doubt that they'll feel the same way about anyone else.

The non-exclusive franchise tag, cost another team two number one drafts picks to sign the player, for tight ends was $6.066 million last year.  Teams are allowed one franchise or transition tag, although the transition is almost obsolete.  Teams must designate the tag between February 17-March 3. 

 

The salary goes right on the teams salary cap but they do not need to be under their adjusted cap number, includes carryover about $625,000 in the Saints case, until March 11.

 

The team can lower the tag number if they can agree to a long term deal with the franchised player by June 15 otherwise the player/team is stuck under the franchise one year salary.  The team does have to carry the full amount, about $6 million, on their salary cap and be under the cap March 11 onwards unless they are able to lower it via a long term deal.  This does effect the team's ability to sign free agents since the free agency period also starts March 11. 

 

Only the top 51 salaried players and any dead money count on a team's cap as of March 11 instead of 53 and no practice squad salary counts as well, this saves about $1.8 million during the offseason.

 

There is no way Graham hits free agency the Saints will try and lock him up long term before using the tag, if not they are definitely using it on him, they will find the space.  As far as any other Saints free agents only a kicker/punter would be less to franchise then a tight end so it would limit the Saints resources more even if the tag were open for use on another position if Graham was already locked up. 


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#25 Larz

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 07:38 PM

I think Jets fans have convinced themselves that they're the only team in the league with tons of cap space. In fact, they're not. According to this Joel Corry article, there are at least ten teams with better cap situations.

http://mweb.cbssport...y-cap-situation

 

nobody has said that, and the 30 million number puts them at #6


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