stoicsentry Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 The Saints are about $12 million dollars over the cap. That in and of itself is not the end of the world, as moves can always be made to get them under. The problem is that they cannot let Jimmy Graham walk... they can't and they won't. Even in a best case scenario, though, they will have to give him a $5m raise or more, putting them in an even worse position. They also have to sign a few of their other players. They don't even have that many guys that they can get big time relief from cutting. Be prepared to raid the Saints for talent. Possible cuts: Will Smith Darren Sproles Jabari Greer Pierre Thomas Roman Harper Mark Ingram Anyone you like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Greer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I second the Greer. But would also settle for their entire backfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I second the Greer. But would also settle for their entire backfield. What do Sproles, Ingram and Thomas do that Ivory, Goodson and Powell can't? Please factor Drew Brees into your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewillie78 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 The Saints are about $12 million dollars over the cap. That in and of itself is not the end of the world, as moves can always be made to get them under. The problem is that they cannot let Jimmy Graham walk... they can't and they won't. Even in a best case scenario, though, they will have to give him a $5m raise or more, putting them in an even worse position. They also have to sign a few of their other players. They don't even have that many guys that they can get big time relief from cutting. Be prepared to raid the Saints for talent. Possible cuts: Will Smith Darren Sproles Jabari Greer Pierre Thomas Roman Harper Mark Ingram Anyone you like? Wont they just TAG Graham? Or does he have a clause in his contract where they cant use the Tag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 What do Sproles, Ingram and Thomas do that Ivory, Goodson and Powell can't? Please factor Drew Brees into your response. different system.... Brees completes 150 plus passes to his backs every single year its the reason for his insanely high comp percentage. I wish the Jets would adopt this type of short passing game system that the Saints run . Sproles is a bit past his prime and has caught 90 balls in a season Thomas is an all around good back ,,, I agree our backs can get it done but I would love to see the Jets draft a Dynamic rookie RB who can be a real double threat. Balanced ball control offense and solid defense has always been my preference let the Saints keep their backs we need young guys back there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 What do Sproles, Ingram and Thomas do that Ivory, Goodson and Powell can't? Please factor Drew Brees into your response. I honestly forgot about Goodson. Two games, seven rushes will do that to you. But when your starting tandem of RBs only has 4 TDs between them (on a rushing-based team)...upgrades shouldn't be neglected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I honestly forgot about Goodson. Two games, seven rushes will do that to you. But when your starting tandem of RBs only has 4 TDs between them (on a rushing-based team)...upgrades shouldn't be neglected. Sounds to me like the bigger problems are the QB and the O-line. Teams were stacking the box on our rookie QB. Austin Howard and Colon were basically worthless in the running game all season, and Brian Winters was equally worthless until the final quarter of the season. Meanwhile, Nick Mangold hasn't been playing like a top 5 center for about 2-3 years. Yet Chris Ivory still had 4.6 ypc and was one of the better "yards after contact" guys, because he's a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I'll take Brees and Graham, you can keep the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 Wont they just TAG Graham? Or does he have a clause in his contract where they cant use the Tag? Either they will tag him or they will work out a long-term deal. My understanding is that if they tag him, that money still counts against the salary cap. Is that incorrect? If it is correct, then he made a little more than $1 million this year, but under a tag he would be receiving at least $6 million. That's presuming they can tag him as a TE, if they have to tag him as a WR, then it would be even more. That's where I got the plus $5 million dollar figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewillie78 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Either they will tag him or they will work out a long-term deal. My understanding is that if they tag him, that money still counts against the salary cap. Is that incorrect? If it is correct, then he made a little more than $1 million this year, but under a tag he would be receiving at least $6 million. That's presuming they can tag him as a TE, if they have to tag him as a WR, then it would be even more. That's where I got the plus $5 million dollar figure. Thanks, and I'm almost positive Tagged money goes toward the Cap. Who else on that list would they tag? Sproles possibly but I doubt it, and maybe Greer, but thats about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Sounds to me like the bigger problems are the QB and the O-line. Teams were stacking the box on our rookie QB. Austin Howard and Colon were basically worthless in the running game all season, and Brian Winters was equally worthless until the final quarter of the season. Meanwhile, Nick Mangold hasn't been playing like a top 5 center for about 2-3 years. Yet Chris Ivory still had 4.6 ypc and was one of the better "yards after contact" guys, because he's a beast. Chris Ivory is a beast...He's like a Lynch that gets caught from behind; hence his short TD count (3) But his history and running style has shown that we shouldn't rely on his legs to carry us through a season. I don't know if Goodson can be that guy, but I sure wouldn't mind a slasher that can catch and break off long runs (McCoy, Charles, Spiller even, basically any RB that was drafted in the first two rounds of FF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian101193 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Would you guys trade for Graham? He is a RFA and like you said N.O. can't afford to keep him but dont want to let him walk for nothing, i wonder what the best TE in the league is worth in trade value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 Thanks, and I'm almost positive Tagged money goes toward the Cap. Who else on that list would they tag? Sproles possibly but I doubt it, and maybe Greer, but thats about it. No problem. I'll let someone who knows more about the cap answer that, but my guess is that they would be hard pressed to franchise anyone considering their current cap situation. Graham would only be franchised because you simply can't let a guy like that walk away. But I doubt that they'll feel the same way about anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Would you guys trade for Graham? He is a RFA and like you said N.O. can't afford to keep him but dont want to let him walk for nothing, i wonder what the best TE in the league is worth in trade value. It's almost next to impossible to get him without paying WR1 money and giving up a lot of picks to New Orleans. I'd still do it if it were possible though. He's THAT good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Can we has Malcolm Jenkins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 The Saints do not have to tag any of those other guys because they are not FAs. Of course franchise tagged money counts against the cap. The interesting thing with Graham is that they are probably going to argue that he was a WR and try to get that tagged figure which is $4.5M more than the TE tag. That will put the Saints deeper into it. Sproles might be a nice add, but he makes a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCJETSFAN Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Here's a. Question. If you were jimmy graham why would u come to the jets. There will be a line of teams. That he could go to and make the same money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Idzik is an NFC guy, interesting to see what he thinks of these guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 graham is soft. not worth a bazillion dollars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 Here's a. Question. If you were jimmy graham why would u come to the jets. There will be a line of teams. That he could go to and make the same money Jimmy Graham probably won't be a free agent. If he was, though? We don't know how much Idzik would be willing to offer him, so we can't say with certainty that the Jets would make the best offer. However, it is certainly possible that the Jets would make the best offer, because the Jets will have one of the best cap situations in the league next year. So there's no reason why Idzik couldn't make the best offer if he really wanted to do so. It just depends on how much he's willing to pay. It's very unlikely that there would be a "line of teams" willing to offer the same money. For one thing, there isn't a "line of teams" that have as much room under the cap as the Jets will. And even among that group, not all of them will have a desperate need at tight end to the extent that the Jets do. You recently asked this question about Maclin, so that makes me think you don't understand the Jets current cap situation. It's great. They have a lot of money to spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Here's a. Question. If you were jimmy graham why would u come to the jets. There will be a line of teams. That he could go to and make the same money just considering leaving means he doesn't care who the QB is or the coach, he just wants to get paid, so highest bidder with most guaranteed money and up front bonus money wins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I think Jets fans have convinced themselves that they're the only team in the league with tons of cap space. In fact, they're not. According to this Joel Corry article, there are at least ten teams with better cap situations. http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24379050/agents-take-raiders-atop-list-of-10-teams-with-best-2014-salary-cap-situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 No problem. I'll let someone who knows more about the cap answer that, but my guess is that they would be hard pressed to franchise anyone considering their current cap situation. Graham would only be franchised because you simply can't let a guy like that walk away. But I doubt that they'll feel the same way about anyone else. The non-exclusive franchise tag, cost another team two number one drafts picks to sign the player, for tight ends was $6.066 million last year. Teams are allowed one franchise or transition tag, although the transition is almost obsolete. Teams must designate the tag between February 17-March 3. The salary goes right on the teams salary cap but they do not need to be under their adjusted cap number, includes carryover about $625,000 in the Saints case, until March 11. The team can lower the tag number if they can agree to a long term deal with the franchised player by June 15 otherwise the player/team is stuck under the franchise one year salary. The team does have to carry the full amount, about $6 million, on their salary cap and be under the cap March 11 onwards unless they are able to lower it via a long term deal. This does effect the team's ability to sign free agents since the free agency period also starts March 11. Only the top 51 salaried players and any dead money count on a team's cap as of March 11 instead of 53 and no practice squad salary counts as well, this saves about $1.8 million during the offseason. There is no way Graham hits free agency the Saints will try and lock him up long term before using the tag, if not they are definitely using it on him, they will find the space. As far as any other Saints free agents only a kicker/punter would be less to franchise then a tight end so it would limit the Saints resources more even if the tag were open for use on another position if Graham was already locked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I think Jets fans have convinced themselves that they're the only team in the league with tons of cap space. In fact, they're not. According to this Joel Corry article, there are at least ten teams with better cap situations. http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24379050/agents-take-raiders-atop-list-of-10-teams-with-best-2014-salary-cap-situation nobody has said that, and the 30 million number puts them at #6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 I think Jets fans have convinced themselves that they're the only team in the league with tons of cap space. In fact, they're not. According to this Joel Corry article, there are at least ten teams with better cap situations. http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24379050/agents-take-raiders-atop-list-of-10-teams-with-best-2014-salary-cap-situation He has them at "11" so to speak, the bonus team. A couple things about that, though: -He doesn't seem to be taking into account the team's own free agents. The Jets have very few players of importance that must be re-signed. The Colts, for example, have Vontae Davis coming up whereas the Bills have Jairus Byrd to worry about. -He doesn't take into account the $$$ that these teams are actually willing to spend. Not their cap room, but their willingness to spend big money--something Johnson is not afraid to do. Take the Jaguars, for example. No, seriously, take them. Get them out of here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stugotz81 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Ebron coming out of NC is the next Graham if not better, soooo all we have to do is draft him at 18....forget this trading for Jimmy Graham talk.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 nobody has said that, and the 30 million number puts them at #6 We'll probably end up with closer to $40M. And the top 3 on that list (Raiders, Jaguars, Browns) are decidedly worse places for free agents to end up than here. Yes, we'll lose out on a couple FA WR's who'd rather get big money to play with Andrew Luck or Aaron Rodgers than get big money to play with ???? here. But if we're smart we can bring in some nice players that can help us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 Ebron coming out of NC is the next Graham if not better, soooo all we have to do is draft him at 18....forget this trading for Jimmy Graham talk.. Ebron + Amaro in the draft. Sign Decker and Tate. 3 WR, 2 TE: Decker/Tate/Kerley/Ebron/Amaro BOOM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 do bounties count against cap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 We'll probably end up with closer to $40M. And the top 3 on that list (Raiders, Jaguars, Browns) are decidedly worse places for free agents to end up than here. Yes, we'll lose out on a couple FA WR's who'd rather get big money to play with Andrew Luck or Aaron Rodgers than get big money to play with ???? here. But if we're smart we can bring in some nice players that can help us. agreed. its not a great year to spend it all either. I'd be perfectly happy with re-signing big mo, re-working cro's deal, and bringing in help for the O passing game, including an OG and back up QB. I'd like to see idzik leave some room for next year as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 agreed. its not a great year to spend it all either. I'd be perfectly happy with re-signing big mo, re-working cro's deal, and bringing in help for the O passing game, including an OG and back up QB. I'd like to see idzik leave some room for next year as well. No receiver? They have to get at least 1 receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 No receiver? They have to get at least 1 receiver. oh yeah, probably 2-3. that's what I meant by "including" I just don't see a big splashy name coming in, just 2-3 solid upgrades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 oh yeah, probably 2-3. that's what I meant by "including" I just don't see a big splashy name coming in, just 2-3 solid upgrades Oh, ok. Yeah I'd be cool with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Jimmy Graham probably won't be a free agent. If he was, though? We don't know how much Idzik would be willing to offer him, so we can't say with certainty that the Jets would make the best offer. However, it is certainly possible that the Jets would make the best offer, because the Jets will have one of the best cap situations in the league next year. So there's no reason why Idzik couldn't make the best offer if he really wanted to do so. It just depends on how much he's willing to pay. It's very unlikely that there would be a "line of teams" willing to offer the same money. For one thing, there isn't a "line of teams" that have as much room under the cap as the Jets will. And even among that group, not all of them will have a desperate need at tight end to the extent that the Jets do. You recently asked this question about Maclin, so that makes me think you don't understand the Jets current cap situation. It's great. They have a lot of money to spend. simple reason why we won't get graham. graham would represent an investment in geno. and idzik is not investing that kind of money in geno. sidenote can you imagine graham in seattle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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