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The Saints in salary cap hell


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#76 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:17 PM

  

They will spend. Would be surprised to see a marquee name in there but you are right idzik is still a relatively unknown quality. Athough i will point out that seattle didnt make many (any?) big FA splashes when idzik was in that front office, granted not as GM.
 

 

Also untrue.  Don't know where this notion comes from or if this is the new current baseless (not to mention ludicrous) rumor.  

 

Idzik was in Seattle's FO since 2007 and they made plenty of splashes in free agency for other teams' expensive veterans.  Not to mention trading Seattle's draft picks for other teams' veterans as well.  Veterans who needed shiny new contracts.


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#77 jgb

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 10:43 PM

As far as Idzik and the Seahawks not making a big splash while he was there, They signed Matt Flynn to an outrageous contract. They signed Sydney Rice to a huge deal.


I stand corrected
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#78 jgb

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 10:49 PM

Also untrue. Don't know where this notion comes from or if this is the new current baseless (not to mention ludicrous) rumor.

Idzik was in Seattle's FO since 2007 and they made plenty of splashes in free agency for other teams' expensive veterans. Not to mention trading Seattle's draft picks for other teams' veterans as well. Veterans who needed shiny new contracts.

It was just an incorrect point in my part. I didn't do any research just thought about current contributors and honestly just forgot about rice and Flynn since neither one has contributed a thing in so long. Just sloppy by not thinking of non current starters. Thanks for correction

Edited by jgb, 21 January 2014 - 10:50 PM.

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#79 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 11:00 PM

  As far as Idzik and the Seahawks not making a big splash while he was there,  They signed Matt Flynn to an outrageous contract.  They signed Sydney Rice to a huge deal.

 

Yep.  And they signed a lot more than that.

 

It was just an incorrect point in my part. I didn't do any research just thought about current contributors and honestly just forgot about rice and Flynn since neither one has contributed a thing in so long. Just sloppy by not thinking of non current starters. Thanks for correction

 

NP.  GFY with your polite response.  Now I feel badly for being such a snot.  Oh well.  I'll get over it...and probably will do it again soon.

 

FYI, since '07 when Idzik started there (and I may be missing some):

 

Deon Grant 6 years $30M

Patrick Kerney 6 years $40M

Sidney Rice 5 years $41M

TJ Houshmandzadeh 5 years $40M

Zach Miller 5 years $34M

Matt Flynn 3 years $26M

Marshawn Lynch 4 years $31M (after trading for him mid-season)

Leroy Hill 6 years $38M (he was an untagged UFA when they re-signed him)

Brian Russell 5 years $14M

Michael Bennett 1 year $5M 

Chris Baker 2 years $5M (yes, our Chris Baker, after the Pats also threw him away)

Mike Williams 3 years $11M

Julius Jones 4 years $12M

Cliff Avril 2 years $13M

Alan Branch 2 years $8M

TJ Duckett 5 years $14M 

Robert Gallery 3 years $15M

 

 

There is no history of them taking the slow, steady way of building only through the draft and signing only "value" free agents.  Idzik did that in '13 because our situation called for that approach (or seemed to).

 

Here's how the Seahawks found RBs in the Idzik era: keep signing FAs (see above: Jones, Duckett, Edgerrin James), and trading mid-level draft picks, for veterans (sound familiar?).  Do that until one sticks:

 

Traded 5th rounder for 3rd down RB Alvin Pearman

Traded 5th rounder for KR Leon Washington (they hardly used him at RB) then signed him for 4 years $13M

Traded 4th rounder for RB Lendale White (never had 1 carry for Seattle) then signed him for 2 years $8M

Traded 4th and 5th rounders for RB Marshawn Lynch (they certainly got this one right) right before the trade deadline in '10.

 

And in addition, they also took RBs in the 4th round (2012) and 2nd round (2013) in the past 2 drafts.  

 

Power running game and strong defense and an efficient QB who only attempts 400 passes/season.  Jets fans could teach Carroll and the Seattle FO a thing or two about how to get to the SB in today's pass-only game.  


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#80 stoicsentry

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 11:07 PM

Teams that take the proper approach to the offense and the QB position do not let players like Jimmy Graham go. The only way a guy like Graham leaves N.O. and Drew Brees is if he WANTS to leave and if he wants to leave no way in hell he comes to the Jets with our current offensive situation and Geno Smith at QB

 

I'm getting tired of this idea. It's not true. The quality of the players around you is one factor, but it's not the only factor.

 

There's plenty of other things that free agents think about:

 

-money,

-tax issues,

-proximity to nightlife,

-proximity to family,

-regional preferences,

-familiarity with coaches

-familiarity with offensive/defensive systems,

-some want to be "the top dog" which is easier to be when there isn't as much around you, other guys may be very good players but they just want to blend in and contribute, etc.


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#81 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 11:09 PM

Teams that take the proper approach to the offense and the QB position do not let players like Jimmy Graham go. The only way a guy like Graham leaves N.O. and Drew Brees is if he WANTS to leave and if he wants to leave no way in hell he comes to the Jets with our current offensive situation and Geno Smith at QB

 

In FA, players most commonly go to the team that offers the most money (or just about the most money), with rare exceptions.  If one team blows away the others with the offer that team will be the winner.  The teams that pony up the most money for receivers are typically those that need them the most.  

 

NO will probably keep Graham.  The best reason is that all they have to do is tag him as a TE (if they can) and it's WAY less than he'd get as a FA.

 

The Jets invested plenty in receivers.  The problem is they invested poorly (Edwards, Holmes, Keller, Kerley, and Hill all cost draft picks for those who say the Jets ignore receivers with their draft picks).  They also paid a bunch of $ to Holmes in particular and Edwards as well.  

 

So it isn't the "what" that the Jets were doing wrong (as compared to others). Hopefully we start to see a change in the "who" which the Jets were most definitely getting wrong (Kerley notwithstanding, and I do like the el-cheapo Nelson pickup).  If Hill improves greatly it'll go a long way, but you can count me with the majority of fans who are pessimistic about his future.  

 

But that goes for QB also, not just receivers.  You can't double-down on garbage passers and think they'll just be good if we'd only surround them with better WRs.  It'll help, of course, but a bad QB is a bad QB.


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#82 Smashmouth

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 09:42 PM

I'm getting tired of this idea. It's not true. The quality of the players around you is one factor, but it's not the only factor.

 

There's plenty of other things that free agents think about:

 

-money,

-tax issues,

-proximity to nightlife,

-proximity to family,

-regional preferences,

-familiarity with coaches

-familiarity with offensive/defensive systems,

-some want to be "the top dog" which is easier to be when there isn't as much around you, other guys may be very good players but they just want to blend in and contribute, etc.

I agree stoic but that stuff should all be assumed and no matter how you slice it I think the 2 most important things are the team itself and money. Teams that desparately want a player usually over pay


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#83 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 09:51 PM

I agree stoic but that stuff should all be assumed and no matter how you slice it I think the 2 most important things are the team itself and money. Teams that desparately want a player usually over pay

 

Kind of a circular argument, since the player typically goes to the highest bidder.  

 

At some point, someone is going to be the high bidder and more often than not, that's where the player goes.  Sometimes there's a hometown discount, but not much.  Some is comfort level with the team, some because they don't want to uproot the whole family, and some have other reasons for taking less from their former teams.  But usually the most money gets the player.

 

I don't mind overpaying some when we're desperate, but even that should have limits.  If Decker's number "should" be in the $7M range, I wouldn't cry if we gave him $8-9M (particularly since we're in good cap shape, and even more so if Idzik doesn't make a habit of this and we continue to be in good cap shape going forward).  It's not like we have the position all wrapped up, and a rookie is unlikely to reap instant rewards (which is also part of what you're buying with a free agent). But if he's looking for $11M to $12M or more, then let someone else overpay.


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