Jordan Matthews May Land With Jets

[ozzieny]

also doubtful that a pick at 18 would or rd 2 would be a stud number one. the Jets could try to get lucky like Mike Wallace and take a speedster in rd 2 or 3 that turns into a number one (given time) but lets be real there isn't a calvin in this draft and if there was, the Jets are about 15 slots away from drafting him. 

MIke Wallace? Lucky? Ask the Fins if they could get their money back.  Wallace was terrible last year. Jets already tried the speedster thing and it backfired - Stephen Hill BUST  

[BroadwayJoe12]

MIke Wallace? Lucky? Ask the Fins if they could get their money back.  Wallace was terrible last year. Jets already tried the speedster thing and it backfired - Stephen Hill BUST  

 

Pitt drafted Wallace in the third round where he averaged 1000 yards and 8 tds in his four years with them and was routinely one of the best deep threats in the entire game.  That is the definition of getting lucky.  Miami might not like the contract they gave him, but he still put up over 900 yards and 5 tds this year with a QB who couldn't throw the deep ball.  

 

So by your logic, we should never draft a receiver with speed, because some fast receivers don't pan out?? gotcha.

[bitonti]

The Jets haven't done too great historically with wide receivers in the second round, either.

 

MIke Wallace? Lucky? Ask the Fins if they could get their money back.  Wallace was terrible last year. Jets already tried the speedster thing and it backfired - Stephen Hill BUST  

 

ok yeah Mike Wallace in Pittsburgh lucky. Altho he was very dangerous in Miami toward the end of the year, Dee Milliner kinda shut him down 

it's also early to call Stephen Hill a bust. When Idzik says in the EOY press conference that the upgrades could be on the roster, it's guys like Stephen Hill he's probably thinking about. 

 

my problem with predicting the Jets taking a WR in rd 1 is only Sammy Watkins fits into the freak mold. and he's not getting close to 18 if he runs like he can run. It's unclear that Lee or Evans will be fast in shorts. And if they are they could be gone at 18. 

 

if Ebron runs that 4.4 he's a poor mans Vernon Davis and yes worth the pick at 18. Not sure Amero comes close to that sort of freak run. 

 

It's obvious that the team needs weapons but last year they needed weapons too and Idzik went with trading for RB and street free agents for the WR. 

 

the JEts at 18 are gonna sit back and take the best player it could even be an OT if they dont bring back Austin Howard.

[ozzieny]

Pitt drafted Wallace in the third round where he averaged 1000 yards and 8 tds in his four years with them and was routinely one of the best deep threats in the entire game.  That is the definition of getting lucky.  Miami might not like the contract they gave him, but he still put up over 900 yards and 5 tds this year with a QB who couldn't throw the deep ball.  

 

So by your logic, we should never draft a receiver with speed, because some fast receivers don't pan out?? gotcha.

Unfortunately you didn't gotcha.  I am all in for speed but not just speed.  Hill was a project at best, a huge question mark. His main role were fly patterns and blocking in Georgia Tech's run first offense.  On top of that, his hands were highly suspect.  But he has proved that is no longer a suspicion, his play prove his hands suck.  He's a physical freak and that's why he shot up the boards.  Of course, the Jets are constantly enamored and get suckered with these type of guys, Gholston, Kyle Brady etc. I'm surprised they didn't draft Donte Poe whose combine numbers were off the charts.  Poe has been a huge disappointment as has Hill, who is the perfect compliment to Eugene - they both suck.  Hill cant run a decent pattern, it takes him forever to come out of breaks, he should sign a tv commercial with the candy bar Butterfinger while he has the chance to make some money.  As far as Wallace is concerned, 1000 yd avg is not a big deal in today's NFL and he's only done that twice.  He compares to middle of the pack wr's in the league.  Wallace has speed and can make the big play here and there but he is nowhere near as dominant as other wr's who are more complete: Fitzgerald, Green, C Johnson, A Johnson, Gordon (1600 yrds 9 td's with a scrub qb), A Brown (who Steelers coveted much more), Demaryius Thomas, etc etc etc. He didn't deserve that contract and it will set the Fins back - yippie, yahooee.

 

You want speed....Jared Abbredaris.  Great route runner, great hands, elusive, 4.40 (that's Sammy Watkins speed) Round 3 make it happen Idzik.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Unfortunately you didn't gotcha.  I am all in for speed but not just speed.  Hill was a project at best, a huge question mark. His main role were fly patterns and blocking in Georgia Tech's run first offense.  On top of that, his hands were highly suspect.  But he has proved that is no longer a suspicion, his play prove his hands suck.  He's a physical freak and that's why he shot up the boards.  Of course, the Jets are constantly enamored and get suckered with these type of guys, Gholston, Kyle Brady etc. I'm surprised they didn't draft Donte Poe whose combine numbers were off the charts.  Poe has been a huge disappointment as has Hill, who is the perfect compliment to Eugene - they both suck.  Hill cant run a decent pattern, it takes him forever to come out of breaks, he should sign a tv commercial with the candy bar Butterfinger while he has the chance to make some money.  As far as Wallace is concerned, 1000 yd avg is not a big deal in today's NFL and he's only done that twice.  He compares to middle of the pack wr's in the league.  Wallace has speed and can make the big play here and there but he is nowhere near as dominant as other wr's who are more complete: Fitzgerald, Green, C Johnson, A Johnson, Gordon (1600 yrds 9 td's with a scrub qb), A Brown (who Steelers coveted much more), Demaryius Thomas, etc etc etc. He didn't deserve that contract and it will set the Fins back - yippie, yahooee.

 

You want speed....Jared Abbredaris.  Great route runner, great hands, elusive, 4.40 (that's Sammy Watkins speed) Round 3 make it happen Idzik.

 

What are you even talking about? Firstly, Hill's hands were never in question until he had a poor rookie year. He dominated the combine, dominated the gaunlet drill and show a lot of people how good his hands were. He struggled last year due to concentration. Want to know how many passes he dropped this year? One. 

 

Dontari Poe, in his second year, was one of the best NTs in the entire NFL this past year: one of only 7 NT/DTs in the entire league to notch a +15 against the run and registered 36 QB pressures (14th in the league). He anchored one of the best defenses in the league and had a stellar playoff game.

 

Spin it any way you want, but Wallace averaged 1000 yards and 8 tds per season while with Pittsburgh. That's something most third rounders do not do. Fact. Oh, but because he's not one of the top 5 WRs in the entire NFL means he's not good? Righttt.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Unfortunately you didn't gotcha.  I am all in for speed but not just speed.  Hill was a project at best, a huge question mark. His main role were fly patterns and blocking in Georgia Tech's run first offense.  On top of that, his hands were highly suspect.  But he has proved that is no longer a suspicion, his play prove his hands suck.  He's a physical freak and that's why he shot up the boards.  Of course, the Jets are constantly enamored and get suckered with these type of guys, Gholston, Kyle Brady etc. I'm surprised they didn't draft Donte Poe whose combine numbers were off the charts.  Poe has been a huge disappointment as has Hill, who is the perfect compliment to Eugene - they both suck.  Hill cant run a decent pattern, it takes him forever to come out of breaks, he should sign a tv commercial with the candy bar Butterfinger while he has the chance to make some money.  As far as Wallace is concerned, 1000 yd avg is not a big deal in today's NFL and he's only done that twice.  He compares to middle of the pack wr's in the league.  Wallace has speed and can make the big play here and there but he is nowhere near as dominant as other wr's who are more complete: Fitzgerald, Green, C Johnson, A Johnson, Gordon (1600 yrds 9 td's with a scrub qb), A Brown (who Steelers coveted much more), Demaryius Thomas, etc etc etc. He didn't deserve that contract and it will set the Fins back - yippie, yahooee.

 

You want speed....Jared Abbredaris.  Great route runner, great hands, elusive, 4.40 (that's Sammy Watkins speed) Round 3 make it happen Idzik.

 

Total strawman. Myself, nor anyone else is claiming it was a good contract that he got from Miami, it was terrible. That doesn't take away from the fact that he was one of the best values for a third round WR in a while. If you're telling me you'd turn down 1000 yards and 8 tds from a third rounder, because he's not Calvin Johnson or Josh Gordon, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

[New York Mick]

You forgot Harding worker, smarter, and driven then Benji, where does that leave the two? Talent doesn't always trump hard working, Talent, AND Hard Working does, but there is a lot to be said about Benji off the field.

Never once read Benji wasn't a hard worker, stupid or not driven.

As far as off the field 99% of these guys are assholes.

[T0mShane]

Dontari Poe is in the Pro Bowl.

[New York Mick]

Dontari Poe is in the Pro Bowl.

Not sure why you posted that but he killed the combine. Guy was a freak that could actually play unlike VG.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Not sure why you posted that but he killed the combine. Guy was a freak that could actually play unlike VG.

 

His response was most likely to Ozzie, who's premise is that all physical freaks will bust out of the league.  I'm just not sure Ozzie understands that everyone entering the draft is physically gifted and turning the most physically gifted ones down, because VG failed, is ridiculous. Being a physical freak and being good at football are not mutually exclusive. 

[ozzieny]

Total strawman. Myself, nor anyone else is claiming it was a good contract that he got from Miami, it was terrible. That doesn't take away from the fact that he was one of the best values for a third round WR in a while. If you're telling me you'd turn down 1000 yards and 8 tds from a third rounder, because he's not Calvin Johnson or Josh Gordon, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

 

Wallace is one dimensional and nowhere as complete as the elite wr's.  For a 3rd round pick he is fine but the point is Wallace is not an elite, well rounded wr. There are  countless wr's who were picked in the 3rd round or later who are equal or better than Wallace.... Keenan Allen,  Kenny Stills, Ty Hilton, Marvin Jones etc etc  And Hill's hands were totally suspect by all scouts preceding the draft. And he dropped one ball? That's because he never got open to get the ball thrown to him. 

[ozzieny]

His response was most likely to Ozzie, who's premise is that all physical freaks will bust out of the league.  I'm just not sure Ozzie understands that everyone entering the draft is physically gifted and turning the most physically gifted ones down, because VG failed, is ridiculous. Being a physical freak and being good at football are not mutually exclusive. 

You are twisting my words or maybe you didn't understand where I was coming from.  My point is the physical freak thing is not the end all.  I never said the physical freak will result in being a bust. Its just certain guys get all the hype because they can run around a bunch of stupid cones faster or can lift more weight than others. Combine numbers are a huge illusion.  "Being a physical freak and being good at football are not mutually exclusive".  I couldnt agree more with your statement.  Hill was considered one of these physical freaks as was Gholston.  Both are busts.  Scouts were very very weary of Hill and for good reason.  You couldn't get a 6th round pick in a trade for Hill now. 

[Larz]

yes yes please yes

[BroadwayJoe12]

Wallace is one dimensional and nowhere as complete as the elite wr's.  For a 3rd round pick he is fine but the point is Wallace is not an elite, well rounded wr. There are  countless wr's who were picked in the 3rd round or later who are equal or better than Wallace.... Keenan Allen,  Kenny Stills, Ty Hilton, Marvin Jones etc etc  And Hill's hands were totally suspect by all scouts preceding the draft. And he dropped one ball? That's because he never got open to get the ball thrown to him. 

 

No one is arguing that he is an elite WR. Bit suggested selecting one of the speedier receivers in the 3rd rounds in hopes of getting lucky like Pittsburgh and you said it was a poor idea, because he wasn't as a good as the elite receivers in the NFL, received a contract he didn't deserve and stephen hill sucks.  None of that takes away from Wallace being fantastic value for a 3rd rounder; everyone here would be dong back flips if we landed someone of his caliber in the 3rd round.  

 

Secondly, out of those receivers you mentioned, only Keenan Allen had a better rookie year. How is Still's a better receiver when he's basically a one-dimensional deep threat like Wallace was, but had worse numbers? Ty Hilton is following a very similar trajectory to Wallace, but again, worse statistical numbers.  Marvin Jones? Outside of the big day against the Jets, Wallace had more yards and tds in one year than Jones had in his first two combined.  None of that even matters, I'm not arguing Wallace is the next coming. I'm simply saying that he was fantastic value for a 3rd rounder, we should only be so lucky to get someone like him in the 3rd and that just because some physical specimens haven't panned out, doesn't mean you ignore them forever. It's why each player is individually scouted and not based on what VG did.

[pedro55]

I dont think they will go QB earlier than rd 3. 

 

best available freak and yes it could be a OLB or CB. dont everyone all panic if it happens. 

 

the WR argument is interesting and i definitely see the need; but the value might not line up. i.e. if the big names are gone, Idzik isn't going to reach

 

as for TE in rd 1 this has been a historically terrible pick for this franchise: Keller, Becht, Brady, Mitchell etc. I don't know why the Jets can't draft a TE in rd 1 but they can't. those who ignore the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat them. 

 

  It's not about panic, it's about the truth that nobody likes to admit.   This BAP in the draft is really dumb logic.  Nobody knows who the best players are and everybody has a different opinion.  Many times the top 5 picks are a crap shoot, much less the rest of the draft.   It's one thing to take a guy who should go in the 2nd round and take him first, it's another to take a Defensive player because he's the so called BAP at 18, but there was some TE or WR who might only be the BAP at 26.    A team who does that is stupid.   

 

  The Jets offense stinks. It's stunk for years.  They have no playmakers.  None.  No WR who can make plays.  No TEs who can make plays.  No RBs who can make plays.   And their QB is still an unknown.       Again, what happens if in round 1, 2, 3 the BAP at their spot is defensive players.   They should just keep picking defense and forget about the offense because their board says so?    At that point you'd have to assume this entire organization is filled with idiots.

 

  Yes, they have needs on defense,  but at the end of the day,  the Jets can draft another freaking CB and make that maybe 4 First round CBs on the roster,  and draft no offensive players that make a difference.  Then Rex will impress people and the Jets will finish 8-8.   Fans will be excited because hey, "they had no talent on offense."  Wait till next year when they get some weapons on offense.   Except hey, BAP again, is defense in the draft.  And the crap continues.

[bitonti]

  It's not about panic, it's about the truth that nobody likes to admit.   This BAP in the draft is really dumb logic.  Nobody knows who the best players are and everybody has a different opinion.  Many times the top 5 picks are a crap shoot, much less the rest of the draft.   It's one thing to take a guy who should go in the 2nd round and take him first, it's another to take a Defensive player because he's the so called BAP at 18, but there was some TE or WR who might only be the BAP at 26.    A team who does that is stupid.   

 

  The Jets offense stinks. It's stunk for years.  They have no playmakers.  None.  No WR who can make plays.  No TEs who can make plays.  No RBs who can make plays.   And their QB is still an unknown.       Again, what happens if in round 1, 2, 3 the BAP at their spot is defensive players.   They should just keep picking defense and forget about the offense because their board says so?    At that point you'd have to assume this entire organization is filled with idiots.

 

  Yes, they have needs on defense,  but at the end of the day,  the Jets can draft another freaking CB and make that maybe 4 First round CBs on the roster,  and draft no offensive players that make a difference.  Then Rex will impress people and the Jets will finish 8-8.   Fans will be excited because hey, "they had no talent on offense."  Wait till next year when they get some weapons on offense.   Except hey, BAP again, is defense in the draft.  And the crap continues.

 

here's the problem with your logic... that "Bap is dumb" 1st off the team isn't gonna do what you or I want them to do. for me, i want to predict what others will do. They go Bap and they go defense. alot. it's probably gonna be a corner if we are  just going by history

 

also a good defender is better than a bust weaponz. this team can sign FA and draft whatever. 

[BroadwayJoe12]

Lots of conflicting reports out of 'Bama on Matthews, and just about every other pick not named Zach Martin.  Some are saying that he lacks the power and strength to get off of physical press-man, whereas others are saying that he's over-powering most every dback, so who knows.  I do know he's got phenomenal size, intangibles and production, but if he times poorly he could probably slide into the third, so who knows.  There's just so many juniors coming out this year that every little bit matters: when you have the Biletnikoff winner only being discussed as a second rounder, you know it's a deep draft.  For what it's worth, that's one of those awards that has been a pretty decent indicator for future NFL success.   Justin Blackmon 2x, Golden Tate, Michael Crabtree 2x, Calvin Johnson, Mike Hass, Braylon Edwards, Larry Fitzgerald, Charles Rogers, Josh Reed, Antonio Bryant, Tory walters, Troy edwards and Randy Moss.  I think Lee and Cooks will probably follow suite with the majority of those guys and carve a nice career for themselves.

[Wilkshake69]

I am all in on Jordan Matthews. I love his game, skill set, production. Pretty much everything about this guy is a plus, other than top end speed. If he were available in the second round, I would be very happy.

[ozzieny]

No one is arguing that he is an elite WR. Bit suggested selecting one of the speedier receivers in the 3rd rounds in hopes of getting lucky like Pittsburgh and you said it was a poor idea, because he wasn't as a good as the elite receivers in the NFL, received a contract he didn't deserve and stephen hill sucks.  None of that takes away from Wallace being fantastic value for a 3rd rounder; everyone here would be dong back flips if we landed someone of his caliber in the 3rd round.  

 

Secondly, out of those receivers you mentioned, only Keenan Allen had a better rookie year. How is Still's a better receiver when he's basically a one-dimensional deep threat like Wallace was, but had worse numbers? Ty Hilton is following a very similar trajectory to Wallace, but again, worse statistical numbers.  Marvin Jones? Outside of the big day against the Jets, Wallace had more yards and tds in one year than Jones had in his first two combined.  None of that even matters, I'm not arguing Wallace is the next coming. I'm simply saying that he was fantastic value for a 3rd rounder, we should only be so lucky to get someone like him in the 3rd and that just because some physical specimens haven't panned out, doesn't mean you ignore them forever. It's why each player is individually scouted and not based on what VG did.

First off, all those 3 guys I mentioned are way more complete wr's than Wallace.  All 3 have way better hands than Wallace. Stills was killing teams on all kind of routes all year long.  His stats aren't huge but its because Brees has so many damn weapons and likes to spread the ball around. Hilton emerged over Wayne's injury. He torched teams time and time again.  And Allen was just dynamic.  Sorry but I want no part of a one dimensional WR whether its the first or 7th round. I would take Keenan Allen, Hilton or Stills (all 3rd rounders) any day over the week over someone like Wallace or Hill, who all they do is run fly patterns.  Allen, Hilton and Stills run great routes, screens, outs. All I ever see from Wallace is a straight fly.  And his stats are not that impressive.  IMO he is highly overrated. Get me a wr like those three and then we can talk about value.    

[Gastineau Lives]

here's the problem with your logic... that "Bap is dumb" 1st off the team isn't gonna do what you or I want them to do. for me, i want to predict what others will do. They go Bap and they go defense. alot. it's probably gonna be a corner if we are  just going by history

 

also a good defender is better than a bust weaponz. this team can sign FA and draft whatever. 

 

Doesn't your logic assume that the perceived BPA will be absolutely head and shoulders above the other guy?

 

Are we talking about a strict BPA approach or is there any wiggle room at all? Because, if you're going strictly BPA, it is a possibility that the BPA's will come from one side of the ball each and every time you draft in the more meaningful rounds. Especially if you're looking through a prism that favors one part of your team.

 

I also think BPA is a luxury you don't have when there is no semblance of balance whatsoever between the two sides of the ball and should only be assumed in conjunction with what you already have, which in reality, is the only KNOWN aspect of the whole process. The rest is guesswork.

 

And what are we arguing here because the BPA approach gets dicier in proportion to how far down the draft you go, so are we talking about the first round, first few rounds or the whole draft? Top of the first, bottom of the first?

[New York Mick]

Everybody "experts" or not can argue all day long about a prospect truth is. No one has a ******* clue. 75% of the players don't make it or live up to the hype.

It's a crap shoot.

[Beaver]

I would love for the Jets to land Jordan Mathews.  Sammy Watkins is the only receiver I would take over him.

[BroadwayJoe12]

First off, all those 3 guys I mentioned are way more complete wr's than Wallace.  All 3 have way better hands than Wallace. Stills was killing teams on all kind of routes all year long.  His stats aren't huge but its because Brees has so many damn weapons and likes to spread the ball around. Hilton emerged over Wayne's injury. He torched teams time and time again.  And Allen was just dynamic.  Sorry but I want no part of a one dimensional WR whether its the first or 7th round. I would take Keenan Allen, Hilton or Stills (all 3rd rounders) any day over the week over someone like Wallace or Hill, who all they do is run fly patterns.  Allen, Hilton and Stills run great routes, screens, outs. All I ever see from Wallace is a straight fly.  And his stats are not that impressive.  IMO he is highly overrated. Get me a wr like those three and then we can talk about value.    

 

Of course, the ole eye test. Can't argue with that.

[RSJ]

If Evans and Watkins are gone, I like this dude or Ebron at #18.

 

Agree, I may even want him more than Evans, depending on what they both run.

[joewillie78]

Agree, I may even want him more than Evans, depending on what they both run.

If Jordan runs 4.5 or better, I want him, if not, then Ebron is my choice and dont even need a time from that dude. His skills are freakish.

[kelticwizard]

I wouldn't call either Milliner or Richardson physical freaks. They were both highly skilled, highly productive players.

 

I think by "physical freak" Bit means he's much, much faster than other players his size, or much bigger than the other players of his speed.

 

A 4.5 40 yard dash for a player of Jordan's size is very nice, but not physical freak class.  Vernon Davis, TE of the 49ers, has that speed.

[SenorGato]

They're both definitely physical freaks...have you seen the sports science on Milliner?

Richardson himself ran in the 4.8s as a 300 pound DT at his pro day...I'm too lazy to check but he also had some of the longest arms and biggest hands in last years draft too. I remember arm length being one of the standout differences between him and Floyd. Its the reason he fit this D actually...

[BroadwayJoe12]

Richardson himself ran in the 4.8s as a 300 pound DT at his pro day...I'm too lazy to check but he also had some of the longest arms and biggest hands in last years draft too. I remember arm length being one of the standout differences between him and Floyd. Its the reason he fit this D actually...

 

Wouldn't be surprised on Sheldon's wing span. In one of Rex's books he emphasizes how much more important arm length in his defense is compared to size. 

[kelticwizard]

If Jordan runs 4.5 or better, I want him,

 

Yes and no.  So far he's run the 40  three times and gotten 4.45, 4.55, and 4.65 .

 

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=110183&draftyear=2014&genpos=WR

[HessStation]

He's a smaller slower version of Benji.

I think it's like, do you want the safer more dependable potential #2 or the more boom bust higher but lower ceiling guy.

[New York Mick]

I think it's like, do you want the safer more dependable potential #2 or the more boom bust higher but lower ceiling guy.

Depends when he's drafted.

[HessStation]

Depends when he's drafted.

Even if they're both second rounders. I think I'd rather go Matthews.

Btw title of te article is retarded. Hope somebody brought that up already..

[The Crusher]

They're both definitely physical freaks...have you seen the sports science on Milliner?

Yes.  Plus everyone all year no matter how bad he played talk about him "having" the tools just not using them correctly.  He started to catch on at the end of the year.  Sheldon Richardson was DROY. nuf said

[joewillie78]

Wouldn't be surprised on Sheldon's wing span. In one of Rex's books he emphasizes how much more important arm length in his defense is compared to size.

Rex has "books"?

[JustInFudge]

Richardson himself ran in the 4.8s as a 300 pound DT at his pro day...I'm too lazy to check but he also had some of the longest arms and biggest hands in last years draft too. I remember arm length being one of the standout differences between him and Floyd. Its the reason he fit this D actually...

Anyone who saw Sheldon in college knew he was a freak. And yes, wingspan was a major factor similar to Mo Wilk.