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Maybe the Yankees did not get screwed in the Pineda deal after all.


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#101 CrazyCarl40

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 04:51 PM

Not sure what's funny he's objectively better. Always has been. Even in ellsbury's best season Granderson was better than hm (at worst even with him.) What was your brain dead argument anyway? Can't say that I remember. Something about batting avg being the most important stat and k's being evil or some other silliness irrational crap. BTW I also said that Brett Gardner was better than Ellsbury which other than one season, is proving to be true as well. 

 

So, if your premise holds true that Granderson is better, then why did the Yankees effectively replace him with Ellsbury?


Edited by CrazyCarl40, 09 July 2014 - 04:52 PM.

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#102 PFSIKH

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 07:07 PM

Not sure what's funny he's objectively better. Always has been. Even in ellsbury's best season Granderson was better than hm (at worst even with him.) What was your brain dead argument anyway? Can't say that I remember. Something about batting avg being the most important stat and k's being evil or some other silliness irrational crap. BTW I also said that Brett Gardner was better than Ellsbury which other than one season, is proving to be true as well. 

 

The only thing Granderson has on Ellsbury is power.  This inflates his slugging which inflates OPS...etc. etc. etc.

 

He has health as well.


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#103 unbanmadmike1

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 12:41 PM

So, if your premise holds true that Granderson is better, then why did the Yankees effectively replace him with Ellsbury?

Because Brian Cashman is a terrible GM. How about that they have a guy playing next to him who is better than him making half the money? Or that they let their best player walk and signed 4 old done vets to "replace" (LOL) him.


Edited by unbanmadmike1, 10 July 2014 - 12:47 PM.

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#104 unbanmadmike1

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 12:46 PM

The only thing Granderson has on Ellsbury is power.  This inflates his slugging which inflates OPS...etc. etc. etc.

 

He has health as well.

Oh, that's all? That meaningless skill? Who needs power? And yes, having more power makes his SLG% better just like hitting more homers makes his HR stat go up. 


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#105 PFSIKH

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 12:44 PM

Oh, that's all? That meaningless skill? Who needs power? And yes, having more power makes his SLG% better just like hitting more homers makes his HR stat go up. 

 

Yes, but if you cannot hit and save yourself with your normal low thought response, who cares?

 

Where are you going to bat him? Leadoff? He is not good enough. 2nd or 3rd? :rl: 4th? There is no doubt he has the power to hit there, but he is more likely to strikeout and leave people on base. 5th? He would be adequate protection, but I could see people going to him because he is more likely to strikeout than hit a HR.

 

If you get the guy that crushed it for the Tigers for two years, yeah he is a lot better than Jacoby. Unfortunately, that guy has not been seen in 7 years. 

 

Dave Kingman had power.  No one thought he was a good player much less a great one.


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#106 #27TheDominator

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 12:45 PM

Let's get back on topic.  Who has more stolen bases?  Pineda or Montero? Who has a higher success rate?


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#107 Thor99

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 02:05 PM

Let's get back on topic.  Who has more stolen bases?  Pineda or Montero? Who has a higher success rate?


I really want to know if Phil Hughes' Has started on his HOF speech.
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#108 PFSIKH

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 06:07 PM

I really want to know if Phil Hughes' Has started on his HOF speech.

 

Yeah that is up there with JonE's statement the Jets' have as good an offense as the Manning and the Colts a few years back.


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#109 unbanmadmike1

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 08:54 AM

Yes, but if you cannot hit and save yourself with your normal low thought response, who cares?

 

Where are you going to bat him? Leadoff? He is not good enough. 2nd or 3rd? :rl: 4th? There is no doubt he has the power to hit there, but he is more likely to strikeout and leave people on base. 5th? He would be adequate protection, but I could see people going to him because he is more likely to strikeout than hit a HR.

 

If you get the guy that crushed it for the Tigers for two years, yeah he is a lot better than Jacoby. Unfortunately, that guy has not been seen in 7 years. 

 

Dave Kingman had power.  No one thought he was a good player much less a great one.

This post is a tour de force in proud "know-nothingness." Congrats. The argument seems to be, "he can't hit because I say so, therefore the fact that he can and does hit can have no effect on my argument, dave kingman dave kingman, dave kingman." I especially like the part about how he's "more likely to strikeout than hit a homer" Because apparently he isn't one of the ZERO players in baseball history with over 100 HR's and more HR's than strikeouts.  I'm not sure what Dave kingman has to do with this because Granderson is just unarguably a better player than Kingman was but I'm sure it makes sense in your head. Also, Granderson's best year was with the Yankees, not the Tigers, in 2011 and he's pretty much been better than Ellsbury every year after that including this year when he's playing in a ballpark that is much worse for him so again I'm not really sure what you're talking about. But I'm sure it makes sense to you!!!

 

 

I really want to know if Phil Hughes' Has started on his HOF speech.

I want to know the mental gymnastics you had to go through to think that that moronic statement anyway addresses what I said about Hughes 5 years ago...


Edited by unbanmadmike1, 14 July 2014 - 09:18 AM.

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#110 PFSIKH

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 10:43 AM

This post is a tour de force in proud "know-nothingness." Congrats. The argument seems to be, "he can't hit because I say so, therefore the fact that he can and does hit can have no effect on my argument, dave kingman dave kingman, dave kingman." I especially like the part about how he's "more likely to strikeout than hit a homer" Because apparently he isn't one of the ZERO players in baseball history with over 100 HR's and more HR's than strikeouts.  I'm not sure what Dave kingman has to do with this because Granderson is just unarguably a better player than Kingman was but I'm sure it makes sense in your head. Also, Granderson's best year was with the Yankees, not the Tigers, in 2011 and he's pretty much been better than Ellsbury every year after that including this year when he's playing in a ballpark that is much worse for him so again I'm not really sure what you're talking about. But I'm sure it makes sense to you!!!

 

 

Yeah, I make up all the standards players have been judged on over the last oh....138 years.

 

He cannot hit because the standard that has been a mark since the dawn of baseball, .300, he has accomplished once in ten seasons. 

 

He has been closer to the Mendoza line, .200 just in case you were wondering, in 5 of his last 6 seasons then .300.  That is not good by any measurement. 

 

Again, I will give you he has power, but he is not the be all end all you make him out to be.  1279 games.  1253 Ks.  1234 hits. 


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#111 unbanmadmike1

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 10:55 AM

If you still think that batting average is the stat you should bring up when trying to figure out if someone is a "good hitter" you're just being proudly ignorant. 


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#112 Matt39

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 07:45 PM

Billyball is here to stay.

 

Not a good look going against it anymore.


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#113 PFSIKH

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 12:22 PM

Billyball is here to stay.

 

Not a good look going against it anymore.

 

I am not arguing Money Ball is witchcraft.  I like it, but MM gets his panties in a bunch over Granderson and OPS. 

 

If you still think that batting average is the stat you should bring up when trying to figure out if someone is a "good hitter" you're just being proudly ignorant. 

 

No, I do not, but I do not take your myopic view of it like you do OPS of it being the be all end all.  In your view, Gwynn (.career .847) is only a few hits better over his career than Granderson (.824).  Go look at Granderson's numbers.  He is rarely top 10 in anything outside of Ks.  Yes, all his Money Ball stats put him in the Top 50 of active players.  You are honestly saying he is a Top 50 player?  Not even close.  OPS says Ortiz is one of the 30 best players.  He is not even close this year.


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#114 lorettahilton

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 11:02 AM

It's no big deal. ... Maybe he didn't want to violate baseball's code, and in the process open ..

 

Game Rules


Edited by lorettahilton, 22 July 2014 - 02:28 AM.

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#115 unbanmadmike1

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:34 PM

I am not arguing Money Ball is witchcraft.  I like it, but MM gets his panties in a bunch over Granderson and OPS. 

 

 

No, I do not, but I do not take your myopic view of it like you do OPS of it being the be all end all.  In your view, Gwynn (.career .847) is only a few hits better over his career than Granderson (.824).  Go look at Granderson's numbers.  He is rarely top 10 in anything outside of Ks.  Yes, all his Money Ball stats put him in the Top 50 of active players.  You are honestly saying he is a Top 50 player?  Not even close.  OPS says Ortiz is one of the 30 best players.  He is not even close this year.

I never said OPS was the "be all end all." I just said that the stats that you're using (BA and K's) are meaningless. Those aren't the same thing. 


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