Jump to content

Jets to go hard after McCown


T0mShane

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 223
  • Created
  • Last Reply

  It's drinking the kool aid and hope.   He was not good against Miami.  He wasn't bad.  Which compared to most of the season, looked like an improvement.  It's great he didn't turn the ball over, but who gets excited over 190 yards passing and 1 rushing TD?  That's kind of a joke to say he looked great the last month.   He wasn't good against the Panthers. He wasn't really that good against the Browns.  He had a decent game against the Raiders, but not great.    

 

  If you look at Geno this past season,  he played great against Atlanta.   The rest of the season he either sucked so bad he should have been run out of the NFL or he was a below avg QB.    People just want to drink the kool aid over somebody throwing for under 200 yards as a good sign.

He looked great vs. Atlanta. So what. The entire NFL looked good vs. Atlanta.. The Falcons laid an egg the entire year.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A "young" 34? In the NFL what does that mean?  Only retired for 4 years?  Geno won 8 games last year.  Vick won more games than that once in his career and it was 2004

Eugene didn't win 8 games. The Jet defense won 8 games.  Eugene lost 8 games.  Vick is light years a better QB than Eugene.  Rex remembers how he single handedly dismantled the Jet defense a few years back.  Rex had no answer to contain him.  Vick embarrassed Rex and the Jet D.  Rex is salivating at the mouth at the idea of Vick coming to NY.  I was against it because of the history of the dogs.  However, to forgive is divine.  With Vick as the Jet QB, a few free agent signings: veteran wr's, a few wr's in the draft, a safety and a rushing LB, the Jets would be instant contenders.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eugene didn't win 8 games. The Jet defense won 8 games.  Eugene lost 8 games.  Vick is light years a better QB than Eugene.  Rex remembers how he single handedly dismantled the Jet defense a few years back.  Rex had no answer to contain him.  Vick embarrassed Rex and the Jet D.  Rex is salivating at the mouth at the idea of Vick coming to NY.  I was against it because of the history of the dogs.  However, to forgive is divine.  With Vick as the Jet QB, a few free agent signings: veteran wr's, a few wr's in the draft, a safety and a rushing LB, the Jets would be instant contenders.   

Your use of the term "Eugene" is fascinating, and I love it. You never slip up, you always use "Eugene" instead of Geno.

 

Carry on my friend.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eugene didn't win 8 games. The Jet defense won 8 games.  Eugene lost 8 games.  Vick is light years a better QB than Eugene.  Rex remembers how he single handedly dismantled the Jet defense a few years back.  Rex had no answer to contain him.  Vick embarrassed Rex and the Jet D.  Rex is salivating at the mouth at the idea of Vick coming to NY.  I was against it because of the history of the dogs.  However, to forgive is divine.  With Vick as the Jet QB, a few free agent signings: veteran wr's, a few wr's in the draft, a safety and a rushing LB, the Jets would be instant contenders.   

 

Vick is a questionable player and old.  He did not single handedly do sh*t.  That game was a give away by the offense.  By the start of the 2nd quarter the Jets had fumbled twice and been intercepted.  Somehow in that time they managed to go 3 and out twice too. Picking up a player based on one game sounds like  perfectly valid way to select a QB.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Vick is a questionable player and old.  He did not single handedly do sh*t.  That game was a give away by the offense.  By the start of the 2nd quarter the Jets had fumbled twice and been intercepted.  Somehow in that time they managed to go 3 and out twice too. Picking up a player based on one game sounds like  perfectly valid way to select a QB.  

 

agree vick is questionable--no doubt. but the fact is we will have a competition between two questionable qbs--geno and a vet, most likely. of the guys that are available, i don't see any sure fire guys (except orton, in him you know you are getting a steady but low ceiling player). it would be great to find the "next alex smith" but i don't see one. idzik will have to roll the dice with someone. i am fine if that someone is vick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

agree vick is questionable--no doubt. but the fact is we will have a competition between two questionable qbs--geno and a vet, most likely. of the guys that are available, i don't see any sure fire guys (except orton, in him you know you are getting a steady but low ceiling player). it would be great to find the "next alex smith" but i don't see one. idzik will have to roll the dice with someone. i am fine if that someone is vick.

 

i don't like Vick for the usual reasons.  I won't blow a gasket if we get him, but I think he is a poor fit because the fans will see him as a starter (see above) and that perception will hurt things.  I also think he is hurt way too much and I don't want any more lefties at QB. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i don't like Vick for the usual reasons.  I won't blow a gasket if we get him, but I think he is a poor fit because the fans will see him as a starter (see above) and that perception will hurt things.  I also think he is hurt way too much and I don't want any more lefties at QB. 

Wait, the "fans seeing him as a starter" or anyone else they bring in, is a reason not to bring someone in? WOW, If we bring in Schaub, or McCown, Or Orton etc. will ALL be seen as the starter.

 

Blaming the fans for thinking they "see a prospect as a Starter" is amazing when their reason for seeing them as a starter is that our current QB was the worst starter in the NFL last year.

 

Instead of NOT bringing in someone because the "fans see him as a starter" How about the current QB GET BETTER, so we don't think anyone they bring in should be the starter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wait, the "fans seeing him as a starter" or anyone else they bring in, is a reason not to bring someone in? WOW, If we bring in Schaub, or McCown, Or Orton etc. will ALL be seen as the starter.

 

Blaming the fans for thinking they "see a prospect as a Starter" is amazing when their reason for seeing them as a starter is that our current QB was the worst starter in the NFL last year.

 

Instead of NOT bringing in someone because the "fans see him as a starter" How about the current QB GET BETTER, so we don't think anyone they bring in should be the starter.

 

hate to say it, and to me it signifies why it is time for the team to move on, but if sanchez is here in camp I will view him as the starter. i suspect a lot of other people will too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i don't like Vick for the usual reasons.  I won't blow a gasket if we get him, but I think he is a poor fit because the fans will see him as a starter (see above) and that perception will hurt things.  I also think he is hurt way too much and I don't want any more lefties at QB. 

 

after watching him on the sidelines so often in philly i can't disagree. let me ask you this: would you rather vick or sanchez? maybe it is a harder question than a lot of people think. i'm not asking as a trap--genuinely interested where people come out on that. i would vote vick personally.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hate to say it, and to me it signifies why it is time for the team to move on, but if sanchez is here in camp I will view him as the starter. i suspect a lot of other people will too.

Boy, that's a tough call Smith or Sanchez. Like choosing your suicide method, gunshot to the head, or 6 feet of rope.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

after watching him on the sidelines so often in philly i can't disagree. let me ask you this: would you rather vick or sanchez? maybe it is a harder question than a lot of people think. i'm not asking as a trap--genuinely interested where people come out on that. i would vote vick personally.

This one's easy. Only one method of suicide in this scenario.

 

Mike Vick on One leg is better than Sanchez.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

after watching him on the sidelines so often in philly i can't disagree. let me ask you this: would you rather vick or sanchez? maybe it is a harder question than a lot of people think. i'm not asking as a trap--genuinely interested where people come out on that. i would vote vick personally.

If I were talking for any other team, I'd probably lean Sanchez. He's still young, well experienced, and potentially has some untapped potential. Vick, on the other hand, is tapped out. For the Jets, I'd vote a strong neither. Sanchez needs a change of scenery, and the Jets need him out of the building.

And I just don't like Vick. I think he's pretty close to done, and I think the baggage that comes along with him isn't worth might he might possibly bring on the field. Two entirely different circuses, but I suspect the Jets were very happy to unload Tebow's big top, and won't be all that interested in setting up Vick's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wait, the "fans seeing him as a starter" or anyone else they bring in, is a reason not to bring someone in? WOW, If we bring in Schaub, or McCown, Or Orton etc. will ALL be seen as the starter.

 

Blaming the fans for thinking they "see a prospect as a Starter" is amazing when their reason for seeing them as a starter is that our current QB was the worst starter in the NFL last year.

 

Instead of NOT bringing in someone because the "fans see him as a starter" How about the current QB GET BETTER, so we don't think anyone they bring in should be the starter.

 

No.  Fans have an exaggerated view of what the guy has done because they saw him win some games years ago.  You jump around making he's better on one leg claims and that is what I am talking about.  There is a Jet fan mentality of "anyone is better" and Vick would feed into that.  I tend to think MM has a pretty good idea and if they work him out and think he is a valid QB, fine.  I don't like having a lefty backup though.

 

after watching him on the sidelines so often in philly i can't disagree. let me ask you this: would you rather vick or sanchez? maybe it is a harder question than a lot of people think. i'm not asking as a trap--genuinely interested where people come out on that. i would vote vick personally.

 

Getting close to anyone status here.  From a football standpoint both are poor choices that have a chance to do something.  From a team standpoint, both are awful.  Sanchez would be in a better position almost anywhere else.  Minnesota would probably love him.  As Slats said, I don't want anymore circus. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No.  Fans have an exaggerated view of what the guy has done because they saw him win some games years ago.  You jump around making he's better on one leg claims and that is what I am talking about.  There is a Jet fan mentality of "anyone is better" and Vick would feed into that.  I tend to think MM has a pretty good idea and if they work him out and think he is a valid QB, fine.  I don't like having a lefty backup though.

 

 

Getting close to anyone status here.  From a football standpoint both are poor choices that have a chance to do something.  From a team standpoint, both are awful.  Sanchez would be in a better position almost anywhere else.  Minnesota would probably love him.  As Slats said, I don't want anymore circus. 

You didn't answer the question. Sanchez or Vick?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You didn't answer the question. Sanchez or Vick?

 

Don't care.  Neither is an option I am particularly fond of.  The problems both pose are things I think the Jets brass should be very familiar with, so if I am wrong they should know best.  Pushed I'd go for Sanchez, but on the Jets that is a little more difficult. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't care.  Neither is an option I am particularly fond of.  The problems both pose are things I think the Jets brass should be very familiar with, so if I am wrong they should know best.  Pushed I'd go for Sanchez, but on the Jets that is a little more difficult. 

No problem, I know where you stand, and you chose Sanchez. I know tough, choice. I go Vick.

 

Its all cool.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't care.  Neither is an option I am particularly fond of.  The problems both pose are things I think the Jets brass should be very familiar with, so if I am wrong they should know best.  Pushed I'd go for Sanchez, but on the Jets that is a little more difficult. 

 

yeah, sanchez will make a fine backup... somewhere else. just too much history here for it to ever be right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Jets could still surprise me, but I don't see them trading a package of picks to move up in the draft to take a top Qb prospect.  So I don't think that happens.

 

I also will be very surprised if Sanchez is not gone, one way or another.

 

But if Sanchez is gone, are the Jets going to do essentially nothing other than having Smith and Simms?  I really don't see that, either.

 

Back to the draft, many here argue for using a mid round pick on a Qb.  But a mid round pick is not likely, although it may, bring someone better than Smith.  In short I see no reason to get someone who not only is unlikely to be better than Smith, but may not be better than Simms.  In short they already have Simms.

 

A quality and BPA Qb may still fall to the Jets, even in the first round, so we can't rule that out as happening.  Unlikely, though.   Too many other teams need Qb's.

 

This line of analysis keeps leading me back to FA, or a possible trade for another team's backup Qb, since I don't see any current quality starting Qb going on the trade block, for obvious reasons.

 

But there are some backup Qb's who would be an upgrade over Smith.  Orton is an obvious choice there, imo. 

 

So, we seem to be talking about FA choices, and we all know who they are, Orton, and who else?  (Ftr I do not see Washington moving their backup given Griffin's issues, so I don't mention him.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I certainly was not arguing it was bad for Idzik at all if Sanchez succeeded with the Jets, if that is how it came across that was not at all my intention. I was trying to point out how asinine that statement was. If Sanchez somehow miraculously became a good QB for the Jets, it would not make Idzik look bad at all, quite the contrary. On the other hand, if Sanchez became a quality QB for another team, it would make the entire Jets organization look quite bad on many levels. All moot, cause it aint gonna be happeniz.

 

I was agreeing with you on all counts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Jets could still surprise me, but I don't see them trading a package of picks to move up in the draft to take a top Qb prospect.  So I don't think that happens.

 

I also will be very surprised if Sanchez is not gone, one way or another.

 

But if Sanchez is gone, are the Jets going to do essentially nothing other than having Smith and Simms?  I really don't see that, either.

 

Back to the draft, many here argue for using a mid round pick on a Qb.  But a mid round pick is not likely, although it may, bring someone better than Smith.  In short I see no reason to get someone who not only is unlikely to be better than Smith, but may not be better than Simms.  In short they already have Simms.

 

A quality and BPA Qb may still fall to the Jets, even in the first round, so we can't rule that out as happening.  Unlikely, though.   Too many other teams need Qb's.

 

This line of analysis keeps leading me back to FA, or a possible trade for another team's backup Qb, since I don't see any current quality starting Qb going on the trade block, for obvious reasons.

 

But there are some backup Qb's who would be an upgrade over Smith.  Orton is an obvious choice there, imo. 

 

So, we seem to be talking about FA choices, and we all know who they are, Orton, and who else?  (Ftr I do not see Washington moving their backup given Griffin's issues, so I don't mention him.)

 

Orton is not a free agent.  He's on the Cowboys.  (Unless he retires, which he's contemplating).  $3.25M to be a backup QB for 1 year in a tax-free state, and he may retire instead? Moron. 

 

Jets are (allegedly) going to be doing what seems to be the popular move: sign a veteran in addition to Smith (one better than Garrard), and probably draft one as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My take on Jet fans who think he's already great is they have gotten so used to mediocre Qb play, they think it is acceptable. We've had a good Qb who could not stay on the field in Chad

Part 1: no one has said that Geno is great or even good.

Part 2: replace what you said about Geno with Chad and you've got a point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Will it take me as far as Canada?

 

Not sure. I don't really live in Canada, I am only a Jet fan when I go to visit Canada. I used to always be a Jets fan, but the heartache was too much and I needed an arbitrary way to reduce my pain. I go to visit Canada sometimes, so this seemed like a good way to go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure. I don't really live in Canada, I am only a Jet fan when I go to visit Canada. I used to always be a Jets fan, but the heartache was too much and I needed an arbitrary way to reduce my pain. I go to visit Canada sometimes, so this seemed like a good way to go.

 

I didn't ask about all that junk.  

 

Will agreeing with you take me as far as Canadia, yes-ey or no-ey?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's rather interesting to see how strongly Geno's biggest detractors are in support of Mike Vick, considering how much that seems to contradict many of their arguments.  Just a few things to keep in mind:

 

1.  Vick has started 16 games one time in his entire 11-year career.  That was 8 years ago.  The most games he's started in a season since then was 13 in 2011, and that number has gone down every season since then.  There is no reason to believe there is any chance of him remaining healthy for a full season (or even the majority of it).

 

2.  For all of those obsessed with evaluating a QB's entire career based on their rookie year, Mike Vick was picked #1 overall and yet was still the backup until the very end of the season.

 

3.  Furthermore, for those same people and their great interest in rookies' QB ratings, Vick's rookie year QB rating was a lovely 62.7, even lower than Geno's apparently unforgivable 66.5.

 

4.  Geno threw for 3,046 yards this past season.  It took Vick 11 years (9 seasons) before he was able to surpass that number, which was the only time that he did.

 

5.  Geno completed 55.8% of his passes this year, a number that it took Vick 4 years to surpass and only beat in 4 of his 11 seasons.

 

This isn't even meant as a defense of Geno, because none of those are even slightly impressive stats in his favor, and if the Jets can upgrade from him than more power to them.  But the reality is that Vick is terrible as a passer and only had one good partial season 4 years ago in that regard.  The start to Vick's career, despite being much more highly touted and drafted, was even worse than that of Geno's.  I'm not sure what would have anyone convinced Vick is such a great option, considering that all of the arguments those same people are making against Geno are/were even worse for Vick.  Add in the health and the age, I just don't know why he should be considered a better short-term, never mind long-term, answer at QB.

 

Don't get me wrong, I would be thrilled if the Jets find themselves another viable option at QB.  Vick just isn't it.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Orton is not a free agent.  He's on the Cowboys.  (Unless he retires, which he's contemplating).  $3.25M to be a backup QB for 1 year in a tax-free state, and he may retire instead? Moron. 

 

Jets are (allegedly) going to be doing what seems to be the popular move: sign a veteran in addition to Smith (one better than Garrard), and probably draft one as well.

 

I referred to Orton in the context of a trade.  I know the Boys want to reduce his contract, and have to begin thinking about the post-Romo era, both due to HIS age and having been increasingly banged up.  It makes sense for Dallas to go young at Qb behind Romo, and Orton is not young.

 

But he's not too old for the Jets, either.

 

If I were in the Jets' FO, I would call Dallas and see if we couldn't cut a deal attractive to both sides.

 

As far as Orton talking about retiring, I assume that is posturing in response to the trial balloons going out about redoing his contract.  It may also make the Dallas FO think about trading him, which could work out for the Jets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's rather interesting to see how strongly Geno's biggest detractors are in support of Mike Vick, considering how much that seems to contradict many of their arguments.  Just a few things to keep in mind:

 

1.  Vick has started 16 games one time in his entire 11-year career.  That was 8 years ago.  The most games he's started in a season since then was 13 in 2011, and that number has gone down every season since then.  There is no reason to believe there is any chance of him remaining healthy for a full season (or even the majority of it).

 

2.  For all of those obsessed with evaluating a QB's entire career based on their rookie year, Mike Vick was picked #1 overall and yet was still the backup until the very end of the season.

 

3.  Furthermore, for those same people and their great interest in rookies' QB ratings, Vick's rookie year QB rating was a lovely 62.7, even lower than Geno's apparently unforgivable 66.5.

 

4.  Geno threw for 3,046 yards this past season.  It took Vick 11 years (9 seasons) before he was able to surpass that number, which was the only time that he did.

 

5.  Geno completed 55.8% of his passes this year, a number that it took Vick 4 years to surpass and only beat in 4 of his 11 seasons.

 

This isn't even meant as a defense of Geno, because none of those are even slightly impressive stats in his favor, and if the Jets can upgrade from him than more power to them.  But the reality is that Vick is terrible as a passer and only had one good partial season 4 years ago in that regard.  The start to Vick's career, despite being much more highly touted and drafted, was even worse than that of Geno's.  I'm not sure what would have anyone convinced Vick is such a great option, considering that all of the arguments those same people are making against Geno are/were even worse for Vick.  Add in the health and the age, I just don't know why he should be considered a better short-term, never mind long-term, answer at QB.

 

Don't get me wrong, I would be thrilled if the Jets find themselves another viable option at QB.  Vick just isn't it.

 

I completely agree with this. I really wonder if those calling for Vick have watched him the past few years. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Part 1: no one has said that Geno is great or even good.

Part 2: replace what you said about Geno with Chad and you've got a point.

 

I used the word "great" out of exaggeration.   But not too much of one.  Maybe one does not have to be great to be inked in as the starting Qb without any competition, as we well know from the Sanchez days.  But to me a second year player who some seem to think is deserving of that treatment, along with the many predictions of great improvement, fall closer to the perception of what should be "great" than otherwise.

 

And I had a point to begin with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...