The one defensive player I would love to have in Rd. 1

[derp]

Certainly possible and I'm not saying he won't be good, just that I get an odd vibe with him and he wouldn't be my ideal choice, but not one that I'd be upset about as I understand his value. At least his perceived value. 

 

One of the guys in that same mold who I'm interested to see what he does at his pro-day is Dee Ford. Great size and showed that he can flat out dominate at the senior bowl: if he's as athletic as some are saying, I think he could make that transition pretty easily as wlel.

 

Ford's interesting. One of the things I took a note of recently was that Rex likes length with his outside players - and it shows. At end Wilkerson's a big guy with great length and Richardson's not as tall but supposedly has really long arms. And then at OLB Coples is obviously a big, long armed dude and Pace is 6'4 with presumably pretty long arms at that height. 

 

Obviously being long armed makes it easier to keep blockers out of your body and I think it also helps in maintaining gap integrity as well as setting the edge for those outside guys. Which is huge in stopping the run, and Rex definitely prioritizes that. I remember a couple of years ago when there were a bunch of long runs and the run defense was bad - guys weren't setting the edge well. In years past too we've seen them pass on those squatty fire hydrant type pass rushers too - Melvin Ingram's a recent case of a guy a ton of Jets fans (myself included) really wanted that they passed on for Coples (a bigger, longer guy).

 

Long story short that kind of stuck with me and I've been keeping that in consideration and my thought is they're going to want a bigger guy. Ford's kind of short at 6'2 and his arm length is okay. They're not crazy long that you'd think it's going to make a huge difference and he'll be fine, but only around half an inch too an inch shorter than guys like Barr and Murphy who are up around 6'5. How much that matters when you're shorter versus taller I won't pretend I know, but it is kind of interesting.

 

The other concern I know of with Ford is that he supposedly jumps the snap count a lot. I haven't watched him a ton so I can't pretend I'm saying this with certainty, but the thought is part of why he did so well at the Senior Bowl is he learned the count and was really quick off the ball because of it. I know I've seen a couple instances where he's slow off the ball and one where in what looks like open field he gets outrun by AJ McCarron. So his athleticism testing will be telling in that regard.

[bitonti]

just looking at the Barr results from the combine... i mean these aren't bad numbers... when people say he didn't blow up the combine... maybe this is underrating him? 

 

Barr - 6407, 255, 33.5 arms, 4.66 40 yard, 1.56 split, 15 reps on 225, 34.5 vert, 6.82 3 cone

 

Mack - 6205, 251, 33.25 arms, 4.65 40 yard, 1.55 split, 23 reps on 225, 40 vert, 7.08 3 cone

 

so to summarize, Barr is taller, heavier, longer arms, ran basically the same 40 and a better 3 cone than Mack. Mack had a better vert and bench. 

 

looking at the sack stats, Mack had 10.5 last year and Barr had 9. But Mack played in an easier conference (can't rip him too much for that as he got 2.5 sacks vs Ohio State). 

 

bottom line I can see why Mack is likely to go higher but Barr is still a damn good player. 

[JustInFudge]

[fancy-tickle comment aside (though I'm sure there's a joke there, somewhere)]

 

This year is a great year to nab a safety in free agency; coupled with a weak safety class.  I can name three safeties, and a couple potential converts.  Why would we blow a first rounder on that position? This is perhaps the easiest position to shore up before draft day.  (I'm looking at Bernard Pollard, finally, James Digs, Whitner, Bethea, Adams...the list goes on)

 

Plenty of solid FA vets, plus its just not a position of value anymore IMO.  I know Seattle would prove otherwise but I still wouldnt go drafting a safety.  Eric Berry and Earl Campbell arent in this draft. 

 

Rex certainly hasnt given a ton of attention, so I'd be very surprised to see the first round pick a Safety.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Ford's interesting. One of the things I took a note of recently was that Rex likes length with his outside players - and it shows. At end Wilkerson's a big guy with great length and Richardson's not as tall but supposedly has really long arms. And then at OLB Coples is obviously a big, long armed dude and Pace is 6'4 with presumably pretty long arms at that height. 

 

Obviously being long armed makes it easier to keep blockers out of your body and I think it also helps in maintaining gap integrity as well as setting the edge for those outside guys. Which is huge in stopping the run, and Rex definitely prioritizes that. I remember a couple of years ago when there were a bunch of long runs and the run defense was bad - guys weren't setting the edge well. In years past too we've seen them pass on those squatty fire hydrant type pass rushers too - Melvin Ingram's a recent case of a guy a ton of Jets fans (myself included) really wanted that they passed on for Coples (a bigger, longer guy).

 

Long story short that kind of stuck with me and I've been keeping that in consideration and my thought is they're going to want a bigger guy. Ford's kind of short at 6'2 and his arm length is okay. They're not crazy long that you'd think it's going to make a huge difference and he'll be fine, but only around half an inch too an inch shorter than guys like Barr and Murphy who are up around 6'5. How much that matters when you're shorter versus taller I won't pretend I know, but it is kind of interesting.

 

The other concern I know of with Ford is that he supposedly jumps the snap count a lot. I haven't watched him a ton so I can't pretend I'm saying this with certainty, but the thought is part of why he did so well at the Senior Bowl is he learned the count and was really quick off the ball because of it. I know I've seen a couple instances where he's slow off the ball and one where in what looks like open field he gets outrun by AJ McCarron. So his athleticism testing will be telling in that regard.

 

I don't disagree with any of this and I've mentioned on here a number of times how Rex prefers guys with long arms to size as he's actually mentioned it in the book(s) he wrote.  When I say I prefer Mack or this player, it's strictly out of my own personal preference and not what I think our FO or Rex will do/want.  

 

I actually thought his arm length was pretty solid: at 4+ inches shorter, his arm length was only 3/8" less than Coples. The thing that I liked about him was he dominated the senior bowl, has a great work ethic and apparently is extremely agile when dropping into coverage, although he didn't do it often.  I just want to see more of him as I only saw Auburn a handful of times the last few years, but I did like what I saw at the Senior Bowl. 

 

just looking at the Barr results from the combine... i mean these aren't bad numbers... when people say he didn't blow up the combine... maybe this is underrating him? 

 

Barr - 6407, 255, 33.5 arms, 4.66 40 yard, 1.56 split, 15 reps on 225, 34.5 vert, 6.82 3 cone

 

Mack - 6205, 251, 33.25 arms, 4.65 40 yard, 1.55 split, 23 reps on 225, 40 vert, 7.08 3 cone

 

so to summarize, Barr is taller, heavier, longer arms, ran basically the same 40 and a better 3 cone than Mack. Mack had a better vert and bench. 

 

looking at the sack stats, Mack had 10.5 last year and Barr had 9. But Mack played in an easier conference (can't rip him too much for that as he got 2.5 sacks vs Ohio State). 

 

bottom line I can see why Mack is likely to go higher but Barr is still a damn good player. 

 

I guess what I was trying to get across at his "not blowing up the combine" is that many of the sites predicted him to put on a show. So while his numbers are certainly very good, it's nothing to write home about.  When I look at OLBs, I like to look at the 10 yard split, the vert and broad jump to show how explosive these guys are off the line: both had the same good 10 yard split, but Mack dominated Barr and most of the field with a 10'8" broad jump (Barr was 9'11") and a 40" vertical (Barr had a 34.5).  To me, these numbers show that Mack is the more explosive of the two, which goes back to our earlier convo how Mack is the blue chip and Barr is the red chip.   

 

I know it's a moot point as he's not falling to us, it was just an off-the-cuff remark how if I could have any single defensive player not named clowney fall to is, it would be Mack.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Anybody have thoughts on Jonathan Dowling if he drops?  I'm not sure what his maturity level is, but I watched him play a game or two and he seemed to bring the lumber. 

 

 

The only game I saw Mack in was the Potato Bowl and he did not stand out. My buddy's cousin plays right next to him, but we didn't find out until the season had ended.  Shows you how much you find out watching a game or two.  I saw Gholston against Michigan and I was hooked.  

 

I was a huge Gholston guy, until I saw him play in the NFL. Besides not caring about football, there's no reason he shouldn't have been a dominant player, it's mind-boggling. 

 

Plenty of solid FA vets, plus its just not a position of value anymore IMO.  I know Seattle would prove otherwise but I still wouldnt go drafting a safety.  Eric Berry and Earl Campbell arent in this draft. 

 

Rex certainly hasnt given a ton of attention, so I'd be very surprised to see the first round pick a Safety.

 

Earl Thomas right ??

 

Safety would not be even close to my first choice, just that it's one of those options we have to keep open as the value could be right.  The kid from Stanford seems like he could be a player in the middle rounds, but haven't really seen much of to make that decision.

[JustInFudge]

I was a huge Gholston guy, until I saw him play in the NFL. Besides not caring about football, there's no reason he shouldn't have been a dominant player, it's mind-boggling. 

 

 

Earl Thomas right ??

 

Safety would not be even close to my first choice, just that it's one of those options we have to keep open as the value could be right.  The kid from Stanford seems like he could be a player in the middle rounds, but haven't really seen much of to make that decision.

 

Him too...that said, Jeremy Hill is awesome but he's not Earl Campbell.

[joewillie78]

just looking at the Barr results from the combine... i mean these aren't bad numbers... when people say he didn't blow up the combine... maybe this is underrating him? 

 

Barr - 6407, 255, 33.5 arms, 4.66 40 yard, 1.56 split, 15 reps on 225, 34.5 vert, 6.82 3 cone

 

Mack - 6205, 251, 33.25 arms, 4.65 40 yard, 1.55 split, 23 reps on 225, 40 vert, 7.08 3 cone

 

so to summarize, Barr is taller, heavier, longer arms, ran basically the same 40 and a better 3 cone than Mack. Mack had a better vert and bench. 

 

looking at the sack stats, Mack had 10.5 last year and Barr had 9. But Mack played in an easier conference (can't rip him too much for that as he got 2.5 sacks vs Ohio State). 

 

bottom line I can see why Mack is likely to go higher but Barr is still a damn good player. 

What ever happened to RYAN SHAZIER. I have not seen his name mentioned anywhere. Has his stock plummeted that much after the combine. I know he seemed to small to play linebacker, but he looked like he could be a safety if he could adjust. Is he basically a tweener who will drop?

[#27TheDominator]

I'd rather have Earl Campbell. 

[Jetlife33]

I would really like Mack or Dennard as well. Sad to say but I really like Dennard even though picking another corner would be hard to deal with for me at first. He's legit though IMO.

[nj meadowlands]

D'Qwell Jackson was just released by Browns.  He's 30, but a very good player.  Wonder if Idzik would sign him for 2-3 million and cut Harris?

[JustInFudge]

D'Qwell Jackson was just released by Browns.  He's 30, but a very good player.  Wonder if Idzik would sign him for 2-3 million and cut Harris?

 

No sh*t? 

 

Sign me up for this.  No doubt. 

 

Not a cap guy but how much money would that save us?  I know Harris is drastically overpaid.  And can you use that money this year?

[BroadwayJoe12]

Him too...that said, Jeremy Hill is awesome but he's not Earl Campbell.

 

You know I love me some Jeremy Hill.  He's got first round talent, but he's had a lot of off the field concerns dating back to high school and through college, so his value is most likely a 3rd rounder right now.  Should he prove to teams that he has his head on straight, he's going to be a steal for someone, as he's personally my favorite back in the entire draft.  He's a significantly more talented Stevan Ridley and we've seen what Ridley can do in the NFL.

 

 

Even though Hill has had some experience catching out of the backfield, he doesn't seem to fit exactly what we need. However, if the best rb in the draft drops to you in the 3rd round, I think you just have to jump on him.  Him and Seastrunk are the guys I'd like to add.

[BroadwayJoe12]

No sh*t? 

 

Sign me up for this.  No doubt. 

 

Not a cap guy but how much money would that save us?  I know Harris is drastically overpaid.  And can you use that money this year?

 

Harris is in his contract year, cutting him this off-season would give us $5 million in cap space and accrue $2 million in dead money, if I'm remembering correctly.  I know he seems to be a favorite of the coaching staff, but his play simply does not warrant the contract he has and I certainly hope they don't just extend his deal to lower the cap hit.  I guess it depends on what they do, but he'd have to cut his salary in half for me to want to keep him.

[#27TheDominator]

Harris is in his contract year, cutting him this off-season would give us $5 million in cap space and accrue $2 million in dead money, if I'm remembering correctly.  I know he seems to be a favorite of the coaching staff, but his play simply does not warrant the contract he has and I certainly hope they don't just extend his deal to lower the cap hit.  I guess it depends on what they do, but he'd have to cut his salary in half for me to want to keep him.

 

You have the numbers right.  I think Harris looked pretty good last season.  $7M is still way too much, but with all the money they have I'm okay with keeping him and he provides some stability while they should be looking hard at getting younger at OLB. 

[JustInFudge]

You know I love me some Jeremy Hill.  He's got first round talent, but he's had a lot of off the field concerns dating back to high school and through college, so his value is most likely a 3rd rounder right now.  Should he prove to teams that he has his head on straight, he's going to be a steal for someone, as he's personally my favorite back in the entire draft.  He's a significantly more talented Stevan Ridley and we've seen what Ridley can do in the NFL.

 

 

Even though Hill has had some experience catching out of the backfield, he doesn't seem to fit exactly what we need. However, if the best rb in the draft drops to you in the 3rd round, I think you just have to jump on him.  Him and Seastrunk are the guys I'd like to add.

 

Yeah, that would be a complete steal.

 

Speaking of which, I just realized you're losing almost your whole offense this offseason.  You go the Fuerette kid or whatever his name is coming in...but damn, you're losing the whole squad sans some OL guys.

[bitonti]

What ever happened to RYAN SHAZIER. I have not seen his name mentioned anywhere. Has his stock plummeted that much after the combine. I know he seemed to small to play linebacker, but he looked like he could be a safety if he could adjust. Is he basically a tweener who will drop?

 

6'1" 237 and didn't run at Indy. Too small for this defense, except at ILB. 

[joewillie78]

6'1" 237 and didn't run at Indy. Too small for this defense, except at ILB. 

Oh, no. I never wanted the guy. Just was wondering what happened to him. Some had him as a mid-first, but it appears he may be out of the first completely now?

[BroadwayJoe12]

You have the numbers right.  I think Harris looked pretty good last season.  $7M is still way too much, but with all the money they have I'm okay with keeping him and he provides some stability while they should be looking hard at getting younger at OLB. 

 

I could live with that. I don't really know how great his responsibilities are on defense as far as lining up the lineman and whatnot, so I'm sure he has added value there. It seems as though Davis is growing into a pretty damned good player, so Harris' loss should be mitigated a bit.  He definitely did play better this year, but I'm sure a good chunk of that was because of how good our line was.  He needs to be dominant in the run game in order to offset how terrible he is in coverage and often times last year he just wasn't, completely missing angles and the ball-carrier.  Either way, I'm always up for upgrading a position and saving money, so if it's not this year, it'll be next year that we need his replacement, assuming we don't resign him to some stupid contract extension.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Yeah, that would be a complete steal.

 

Speaking of which, I just realized you're losing almost your whole offense this offseason.  You go the Fuerette kid or whatever his name is coming in...but damn, you're losing the whole squad sans some OL guys.

 

Yea, we're losing a solid chunk of guys, but honestly, as long as Jennings plays well, their defense is returning a lot of players and should remain competitive.  You hear Koy Detmers 14 year old nephew gave an oral-commitment to LSU after Cam saw him at a bunch of games and camps and offered him a scholarship.  Apparently the kid is already 6'4" 210+ and is basically being coached daily by the Detmers and others.  These freaking kids man, they basically are bred to play football and groomed since they can walk.

[Jetknowledge]

I'd rather they didn't go defense at all, but if they did and Idzik liked him, then I'd love to have him, from what I've heard about him from Mayock and from what little I've seen.

I have a very limited opinion in terms of draft prospects. I opened the thread to see what everyone else thought, hopefully people with more informed opinions than mine, such as yourself.

If we go D, then rex and idzik will decide together and I see them going linebacker since the best backer will be gone I see dee ford or cj mosley but I think they're going receiver back to back.

[JustInFudge]

Yea, we're losing a solid chunk of guys, but honestly, as long as Jennings plays well, their defense is returning a lot of players and should remain competitive.  You hear Koy Detmers 14 year old nephew gave an oral-commitment to LSU after Cam saw him at a bunch of games and camps and offered him a scholarship.  Apparently the kid is already 6'4" 210+ and is basically being coached daily by the Detmers and others.  These freaking kids man, they basically are bred to play football and groomed since they can walk.

 

14?  What are they feeding him?

 

Its ridiculous.  I'm having a hard time with the high school recruitment process these days, a verbal commit is squat.  And if you're a fan of the Gators, you're consistently let down.

[T0mShane]

My top three at #18 (based on who I think will be available):

1. Jace Amaro

2. Marqise Lee

3. Odell Beckham Jr

[BroadwayJoe12]

14?  What are they feeding him?

 

Its ridiculous.  I'm having a hard time with the high school recruitment process these days, a verbal commit is squat.  And if you're a fan of the Gators, you're consistently let down.

 

F*ck if I know, but I wish my parents fed/infused it to me when I was growing up. Yea, the kid followed it up with: "if they have a couple losing seasons or some big coaching changes, my opinion can obviously change, but it's my favorite school and I hope to play there" etc.  So who knows, but the recruiting process is getting insane. Don't tell me these kids are being recruited in middle school and not offered absurd amounts of perks or money to go there when they've been showing interest for 5+ years. 

[bassmaster2]

The Jets need to go get a WR or TE in round 1 , forget about defense , D can't score points

[BroadwayJoe12]

The Jets need to go get a WR or TE in round 1 , forget about defense , D can't score points

 

The inherent flaw with that logic is that you have no idea who's available at 18 without saying how it falls.  You can say this, but what happens when Watkins, Evans, Lee, Ebron are all off the board and one of the top defensive prospects falls to 18? On top of that, it's an extremely deep draft at WR, so there's a very good chance you get a good player falling to #50, where Idzik could use an extra pick to move up a few spots if someone he really likes is there.

[Jetlife33]

My top three at #18 (based on who I think will be available):

1. Jace Amaro

2. Marqise Lee

3. Odell Beckham Jr

Interesting to see you have Amaro above Lee. Do you have Amaro above Ebron as well or you don't think he'll be available at 18?

[TuscanyTile2]

Ha-Ha Clinton-Dix was a five star prospect and is from the SEC, exactly the same combination you constantly regurgitate on here and is likely to be on the board, thus why I mentioned it.  I made the snarky comment because you make predictions on Idzik's thinking based off of one year and act like it's fact. 

 

My prediction depend on what we do in FA, but if I'm putting my Idzik cap on, I think Ha-Ha has to be a clear-cut favorite. Earl Thomas-like, 5 star recruit, championship winner, SEC, very good athlete and fits a position of huge need. 

 

How great would it be if the Jets drafted him and this was displayed on the jumbo-tron after every big hit he made...

[TuscanyTile2]

I'm fine w/ Dix but I'd also be good w/ Stephon Tuitt from ND.

[BroadwayJoe12]

How great would it be if the Jets drafted him and this was displayed on the jumbo-tron after every big hit he made...

 

 

Would actually love it. The Simpsons played a major roll in my youth, especially the good years.  

[bassmaster2]

The inherent flaw with that logic is that you have no idea who's available at 18 without saying how it falls.  You can say this, but what happens when Watkins, Evans, Lee, Ebron are all off the board and one of the top defensive prospects falls to 18? On top of that, it's an extremely deep draft at WR, so there's a very good chance you get a good player falling to #50, where Idzik could use an extra pick to move up a few spots if someone he really likes is there.

There is 2 good TE in the draft , 5 good WR in the draft ,without being a reach and 1 or 2 going to be there at 18 , the Jets need OT , OG and RB there are many needs without take another defensive player and hearing all the complaints , D the first 2 rounds the last 2 years

[CotcheryifyouCan]

i think dennard is going to be a real good player in the league as well as gilbert and mack, that being said i still hope we go wr in rd 1

[Gastineau Lives]

Bingo.

[slats]

Bingo.

 

You need to console your partner in the booth. He's got him as an average safety prospect. 

[Gastineau Lives]

You need to console your partner in the booth. He's got him as an average safety prospect. 

 

Shhhhh. It makes for good radio.

[bitonti]

Bingo.

 

After seeing 4 safeties go in this first round, clearly I was wrong about Pryor being a reach. the value of the safety position has changed in this league and, it's a lesson learned.

 

Well done buddy. Nice call for back in Feb.