Bart Scott explains LB play, and Paces role.

[pointman]

Pretty good read IMO.

http://www.jetsinsider.com/blogs/christopher_nimbley/?p=3378

“Yeah, they (average fans) don’t know, they don’t know. Compare him (Pace) to Adalius Thomas because that’s the position he’s playing, Terrell Suggs was the rush, he got to do what he wanted to. That’s why he could go underneath and nobody cares, people cover for him.” Scott said, “But the SAM doesn’t have that freedom because the SAM is usually responsible for getting a jam on the tight end, then rush. How are you going to get off the ball, you hitting the tight end and the tackle gets a chance to step back and he’s already waiting for you?

“They don’t understand, they don’t get it. He has very few opportunities to really rush the passer, Barnes, Coples those guys just go. (Barnes) You can tell he has no responsibility by the first two steps, he comes in like a wild man, but with Calvin it’s always read steps.”

[Villain The Foe]

I read this earlier on Jetsinsider. Makes sense. 

[SenorGato]

I think Pace is an excellent player and has been as a Jet. 2012 sucked but otherwise hes been an impact guy. I like him as a veteran on the roster right now.

They need to draft a replacement.

[pointman]

Bart's still working out. Blow up the middle, Thick Neck Magee!!!!

[usbobsled]

This article was written back in March, but I only saw today. When Pace came here, I thought he would be a 10-15 sack guy. I think most jet fans judge Pace based solely on his amount of sacks. After reading this, I feel more at ease on the Pace extension. If you think about the amount of sacks last year, knowing Pace’s responsibility, directly shows our excellent defensive line. Last year, it seemed like the defense was on the field 75% of the time, because of our terrible offence. If our offence improves, it is scary to think what our defense will do with less time on the field. This team should be fun to watch.

 

http://www.jetsinsider.com/blogs/christopher_nimbley/?p=3378

 

The Importance of Calvin Pace Explained by Bart Scott

While John Idzik continues to get criticized for “missing” on free agent targets that he didn’t actually miss on as much as he wasn’t willing to be the highest bidder on, many of Idzik’s smart aquistions continue to fly under the radar. Locking up for Folk was smart, but it’s a kicker so it’s hard to get too excited about, letting Austin Howard go to replace him with Breno Giacomini for less money was another smart move, but the move that seems to be getting overlooked the most was the re-signing of Calvin Pace for two-years and $5 million.

 

Pace’s true value and impact on this Jets defense has been overlooked and misunderstood his entire time here, this is not an uncommon thing amongst linebackers as you’re soon to read, when Pace signed a six-year $42 million contract with the Jets in 2008 misguided fans expected double-digit sacks from him every year. Fans wanted tangible numbers they could point to in the stat sheet to gauge his impact, problem is football doesn’t work like that. Stats are almost meaningless by themselves, there’s too many varibles that no one outside the team can account for and the way defenses are structured tend to help some guys pad their stats while other guys do the dirty work and free up their stat compiling teammates.

JetsInsider caught up with former Jet linebacker Bart Scott and had him explain just how vital Calvin Pace is to this defense. (JetsInsider.com Photo)

No need to take a writer’s word for it though because JetsInsider.com caught up with former Jet linebacker Bart Scott who has been staying in shape for his new gig as an anaylst for CBS by working out at TEST Parisi Football Academy in Martinsville, New Jersey. The TEST Parisi Football Academy trains NFL hopefuls as they prepare for the combine/pro day and also helps train current NFL players to stay in shape during the offseason.

 

Scott explained that he doesn’t think people understand just how vital Pace is to what Rex Ryan likes to do on defense, he railed against the idea of using stats to measure a player’s impact and explained, in great detail, that Pace’s responsibilities exceed the grasp of most fans.

 

“Yeah, they (average fans) don’t know, they don’t know. Compare him (Pace) to Adalius Thomas because that’s the position he’s playing, Terrell Suggs was the rush, he got to do what he wanted to. That’s why he could go underneath and nobody cares, people cover for him.” Scott said, “But the SAM doesn’t have that freedom because the SAM is usually responsible for getting a jam on the tight end, then rush. How are you going to get off the ball, you hitting the tight end and the tackle gets a chance to step back and he’s already waiting for you?

 

“They don’t understand, they don’t get it. He has very few opportunities to really rush the passer, Barnes, Coples those guys just go. (Barnes) You can tell he has no responsibility by the first two steps, he comes in like a wild man, but with Calvin it’s always read steps.”

 

Read steps means the linebacker has to work his way through reads and be responsible for setting the edge, taking on blockers to free up teammates, coverage on tight end/slot receiver and then after all that he can shoot for the rush. It’s very similar to the way a quarterback has to work through his reads, first target, second target, third, still not there, okay it’s check down time and for Pace most of the time his responsibility means rushing the passer is his check down.

 

“Right and we’re going through our read progressions, but people don’t realize that.” Scott said.

 

“The easiest thing to get in this game is numbers, but who are you willing to screw over to get numbers. Now Calvin could get a lot of sacks if he screws over the inside linebacker because what happens is if every time he just shoots up every time, the one time where he gets up the field and it’s a draw or pass and this guy, who is a tackle, has leverage on the inside linebacker and can seal him inside, he’s screwing over the linebacker because now he’s (the linebacker) doing that (and) he’s (the tackle) not even going to block he’s just going to come earhole the inside linebacker.” Scott said, “The fullback would seal Calvin and it would create an alley and the backside linebacker is not going to be able to get over the top because this guy’s going to block the other backer with him.

 

“See what happens now is Calvin does his job, David (Harris) gets over the top, now the backside guy, which was usually me, I got to beat the guard or the center. Because usually I’m the weak side, a lot of times unless it’s a weak side run where I got to go hit the fullback or guard, these guys always have the angle on me. They never really have the angle on the Mike (Harris is the Mike linebacker) because the Mike is lined up over the guard. So he doesn’t have an angle to seal me, he can come up and get me, but David can come here and go here and it’s easy. Meanwhile, I’m here and I’m going here, you always got an angle with me. I always got to come over, hit the guard, try to straighten him up and cross his face. It’s like someone trying to run this way and someone’s like ‘yeah, come one’ because he’s 300 lbs. So, of course this guy (the SAM or WILL) isn’t going to get as many tackles because this guy (the Mike) is going to get to the ball first because there’s nobody to block him.”

 

Which is why Scott thinks it’s so important that the Jets re-signed Pace. Scott says it’s easy to find guys who can be turned loose and just rush the passer or run straight to the ball, but finding players willing to mix it up, do the heavy-lifting/dirty work and take on multiple responsibilities knowing he’ll receive more blame and less glory than he deserves for the sake of the team are much harder to find.

 

“He has to drop in coverage, they’re responsible to draw blocks and set the edge. Rushing is secondary for them, that’s why they’re named SAM (linebacker) and rush (linebacker). Rush is to rush, SAM is more responsibility, be a spy on the quarterback and their job is to keep everything inside, unless they have sub down, which is basically for them to create a short edge for an outside blitzer.” Scott said, “So the fact that Calvin got 10 sacks is amazing, because when Adalius (Thomas) was having 13 (sacks) and leading the league his were from blitzing. His were from standing up and running blitzes.

 

“So, that position isn’t meant to get a lot of sacks unless he’s blitzing, Calvin doesn’t do a lot of blitzing. Adalius used to line up at safety and blitz, Adalius used to line up in certain positions where he had a free rush, where he could have liberty to go inside or outside. And a lot of these people know that within that system, because so many people have come from that system, they know his job is to contain so they play to that fact. That allows the tackles to sit inside because they know he’s not coming underneath, because he can’t.”

 

Of course it’s still Ryan’s defensive system, but Scott said the system has changed a bit because the strength of the team is the defensive line now and that gives Pace more freedom to just make plays because the defensive line is occupying so much of the offensive line’s attention.

 

“I think last year, because the strength was the d-line, he has more ability and more freedom to rush the passer. Where he can rush and not have any regard for contain, his job was just to get to the rusher, that’s few and far between in that position. People have to understand the system, if you think about the system Tamba Hali and Justin Houston (in Kansa City), they play more of a switch WILL position, where they allow them to blitz and the inside linebackers do a lot of the dropping and Eric Berry drops down.” Scott said, “So, within Rex’s system, the way he interprets it, he uses Calvin, that’s why it was so vital for them to sign him back. Not because of his pass rushing, but they signed him back because he’s the only one who can do the athletic things, draw two blockers and then drop for a three receiver hook or go slash in-between the slot receiver and play the outside, if he runs a press out which allows a guy coming into the box to take the in-cut.”

 

Scott doesn’t think the Jets need to draft a young outside linebacker to start grooming saying, “Well they don’t have to because they’re pretty much set at that spot. You got Coples, you got him (Pace) and you got Barnes coming back.”

When asked if he thinks Pace has another two years left in the tank he said, “Oh yeah, Calvin takes care of his body very well. Calvin eats cauliflower and all that, he’s like a rabbit. You’ll never see Calvin eating anything bad so, two years, the thing about that job is at worst all he has to do is set the edge and stay outside and when his guy blocks down, hit the pulling guard. Those types of jobs you can do forever, because they’ll use Barnes and the other guys to do the athletic stuff because no matter what, no matter how old he gets, he can always be athletic for that position. It’s not like he’s Demarcus Ware trying to drop down in space or something like that so, it’s not that hard of an adjustment because Calvin’s actually a skinny guy. Even though he’s like 250-255, he’s skinny. His weight is high, but that’s because he’s tall. So he’ll always be able to run, like Jason Taylor no matter how old he got he’ll always be able to run.”

We’ll have much more from the conversation with Scott in the next couple of days (going to have to draw up some diagrams to be able to really get into all the X’s and O’s of what he talked about), but as a former linebacker who was asked to do the heavy-lifting for the good of his teammates despite it not being good for his numbers he knows not only is that role extremely important and harder to find a fit for, but it’s also a role where the player’s true impact gets lost on the average fan. Pace is 33-years-old, but getting to play behind this defensive line is his fountain-of-youth so, don’t expect his play to suddenly drop off.

 

“But a guy like Calvin because he’s so light and limber he’ll always be able to do stuff like that.” Scott said, “Calvin could play that position forever.”

[T0mShane]

Hemingwayesque.

[BurnleyJet]

Hemingwayesque.

A drunken slob in Florida's answer to the Castro?

[use2Jet]

I have always thought Jet fans did not appreciate Pace and treat him like he sucks. Pace is a damn good player, a great teammate and has been and is a big part of the defense for years now

[pointman]

Posted four months ago.

 

[Maxman]

bump

[Matt39]

Scott is awesome on TV. Glad he'll be on CBS this year.

[slats]

Sounds like the guy who designed that defense knows absolutely nothing about offense.

[Bugg]

The one abolsute negative yuou can say about RYan's defense is TEs tend to have big days against the Jets. Even average ones. So Bart Scott, who is actually pretty good on TV, is way off base here. If the SAM's job is to hinder the TE, Pace has been doing a abd job of it.

[Matt39]

The one abolsute negative yuou can say about RYan's defense is TEs tend to have big days against the Jets. Even average ones. So Bart Scott, who is actually pretty good on TV, is way off base here. If the SAM's job is to hinder the TE, Pace has been doing a abd job of it.

 

Covering the tight end issues pre date Rex. Ken Dilger, Jay Riemersma, Crash Jensen and the list goes on.

[use2Jet]

Sounds like the guy who designed that defense knows absolutely nothing about offense.

I have a theory on this.

I think he is so confident and cocky about his defense, that he is myopic when it comes to offense.

He thinks in terms of what gives him and his defense problems, rather than being able to identify what will give the league problems.

[JustInFudge]

The one abolsute negative yuou can say about RYan's defense is TEs tend to have big days against the Jets. Even average ones. So Bart Scott, who is actually pretty good on TV, is way off base here. If the SAM's job is to hinder the TE, Pace has been doing a abd job of it.

 

You know better than Bart Scott. 

 

Holy sh*t, this site.

[T0mShane]

You know better than Bart Scott.

Holy sh*t, this site.

Needs more tongue in cheek endorsements of every player.

[Bugg]

You know better than Bart Scott. 

 

Holy sh*t, this site.

Perphaps you watch a different team than the rest of us. Pace is a superstar now. Right. 

 

CAN'T WAIT. 

[JustInFudge]

Perphaps you watch a different team than the rest of us. Pace is a superstar now. Right. 

 

CAN'T WAIT. 

 

Because thats exactly what Bart said, Pace is a superstar. 

 

Good thing we have you around here to correct explayers who have played in the system next to these guys because you know more. 

[RutgersJetFan]

The majority of this site has misunderstood the roles of the linebackers in this defense since Rex's first day on the job. Bart Scott was one of the best LBs in the league for his first two years here and the majority of discussions revolved around bitching and moaning about his lack of sacks. Ditto for Thomas and Pace who were nasty as hell for those first couple years.

[#27TheDominator]

I think this article is more an indictment of Coples than anything. If Coples is just going, I am not happy with his production.  He'd better pick it up.  I don't think that Scott is saying Pace is so great, just that he does his job and will be able to continue doing it.  It sounds like the kind of position that may take some time for a younger LB to learn. 

[slats]

I think this article is more an indictment of Coples than anything. If Coples is just going, I am not happy with his production.  He'd better pick it up.  I don't think that Scott is saying Pace is so great, just that he does his job and will be able to continue doing it.  It sounds like the kind of position that may take some time for a younger LB to learn. 

 

Last year, Coples got his position change late, and was coming off an injury. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for that. In each of his first two seasons he came on at the end of the season. This year, though, he needs to play like a first rounder all year. 

[Jetlife33]

Last year, Coples got his position change late, and was coming off an injury. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for that. In each of his first two seasons he came on at the end of the season. This year, though, he needs to play like a first rounder all year.

Agreed. I give Q a break for the position change more than anything. This year however, it's time he brings it. Him slimming down a bit is a good sign he's ready to attack off the edge.

[#27TheDominator]

Last year, Coples got his position change late, and was coming off an injury. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for that. In each of his first two seasons he came on at the end of the season. This year, though, he needs to play like a first rounder all year. 

 

Agreed. I give Q a break for the position change more than anything. This year however, it's time he brings it. Him slimming down a bit is a good sign he's ready to attack off the edge.

 

If he was just going, then he didn't create as much havoc as we'd hope.  I cut him plenty of slack, but all the cut him slack, learning the position chatter relates to him learning a new position and having to do the things they are talking about Pace doing.  I cut him plenty of slack, but if he was just coming off the edge with no responsibility I would have expected more.  That is what Barnes does and he has success because of his speed.  

[dbatesman]

I was the biggest Coples apologist around until we moved him to linebacker. It was a stupid idea then and it's a stupid idea now.

[SenorGato]

The majority of this site has misunderstood the roles of the linebackers in this defense since Rex's first day on the job. Bart Scott was one of the best LBs in the league for his first two years here and the majority of discussions revolved around bitching and moaning about his lack of sacks. Ditto for Thomas and Pace who were nasty as hell for those first couple years.

 

Don't forget the contracts. I'm always pissed at players making, from my all seeing POV, tons of money. 

 

The Jets' LB group was the best in the league for those couple of years. It was saying something too because the Jets also had a stout veteran DL and the best CB in the game. 

[JustInFudge]

The majority of this site has misunderstood the roles of the linebackers in this defense since Rex's first day on the job. Bart Scott was one of the best LBs in the league for his first two years here and the majority of discussions revolved around bitching and moaning about his lack of sacks. Ditto for Thomas and Pace who were nasty as hell for those first couple years.

This.

Bart's 2010 season was one of the best we've witnessed as Jets fans. For him to produce the way he did in that role on Ryan's D was insane. He was a monster that year.

[Sperm Edwards]

Last year, Coples got his position change late, and was coming off an injury. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for that. In each of his first two seasons he came on at the end of the season. This year, though, he needs to play like a first rounder all year.

 

This is really my hope for his lack of production.  Getting the notice that late (which likely wouldn't have happened at all if we'd ended up with Mingo instead of Richardson) meant he was probably in the 290 lb range when he got that notice. Possibly even more, as I'm sure it's not uncommon for players to put on an extra few lbs in the offseason that they shed off pretty easily.  Even less surprising for someone like Coples who has been, at one point or another, a disappointment in the weight room (according to Ryan).

 

When switching to a new position, or if big improvement is needed from the prior season (i.e. Geno Smith), they not only may train or manage weight differently in the offseason, but will also - or one hopes they would - watch some film in the offseason. Film of themselves and film of others who are successful at their position.  Well from January through April of 2013, Coples wasn't training to be a linebacker and wasn't studying film to be a linebacker (if he did any film study at all). He entered May probably pushing, or in excess of, 290 lbs and was told he's going to play OLB. Whether he's mostly just making a beeline for the QB and only occasionally dropping into coverage or playing the run from an upright stance, it's still new.  And on top of shaking off any usual offseason rust, he's supposed to drop 15 (let alone 20) lbs? Not happening. 

Would advance notice have made a huge difference a year and a half ago? I don't really know. But he got that advance notice this time around and as of 2 month agos I think he suggested he was then down to 275 lbs (said he dropped 15 lbs I think). So it made a difference in the offseason this year. Plus he said it wasn't just a motor or endurance thing (both of which could be significant); he claimed he was faster outright.

 

If he doesn't produce a lot more pressure this year, then I don't think it would matter much if he was playing inside on a 4-man line or outside on a 3-man line or even OLB behind a 3-man line.  He's talented enough, and has a moldable enough frame, to do any of them.  He may stink worse than anything in coverage, but he ought to be able to get to the passer at 275 lbs (quite possibly less by now), with a year under his belt at this position in this same defense with the same coaching.

 

It would make for interesting speculation, but if he's not productive this year I don't think he would have been monumentally productive inside either. With his athleticism he doesn't have DT-only talent. He's not strictly a Warren Sapp or Kris Jenkins type. Not at all.

[SenorGato]

Coples should be close to 260 now, no? I thought he dropped 10-15 before last season too. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Coples should be close to 260 now, no? I thought he dropped 10-15 before last season too.

He did? I don't remember that. (Not saying it didn't happen; just that I don't remember it. If he had, then there might have been a little less fanfare about his weight at OLB. Not necessarily on this site, but maybe elsewhere. Actually now I'm thinking he may have dropped down to 280 even. Or I'm just imagining it because you planted the idea there.

He hasn't had an official weight change yet as a result of this past offseason, so he's still listed everywhere at 290. But his 15 lb weight loss was from 2 months ago. He may have lost a couple pounds more since then (if he was even trying to).

[JustInFudge]

He did? I don't remember that. (Not saying it didn't happen; just that I don't remember it. If he had, then there might have been a little less fanfare about his weight at OLB. Not necessarily on this site, but maybe elsewhere. Actually now I'm thinking he may have dropped down to 280 even. Or I'm just imagining it because you planted the idea there.

He hasn't had an official weight change yet as a result of this past offseason, so he's still listed everywhere at 290. But his 15 lb weight loss was from 2 months ago. He may have lost a couple pounds more since then (if he was even trying to).

 

Pretty sure there was an article posted about it.  He said he was down around 260.

[#27TheDominator]

By last July he had already dropped to 278.  

Brian Costello @BrianCozollow

Coples said he's down to 278 pounds

12:31 PM - 27 Jul 2013

 

 

http://www.ganggreennation.com/2013/7/27/4563278/quinton-coples-dropping-weight

 

I have not seen anything specific about this year, but there was a quote from Thurman saying they expected big things from Coples who had lost some weight. 

On if he is pleased with what Quinton Coples has done…

"Oh, he’s come a long way. We are anticipating a big year for Que. He lost some weight. He understands the position a little bit better, so we are expecting big things from him."

 

http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/jets/nothing-but-jets-1.1279166/rookie-mcdougle-built-to-play-corner-says-thurman-1.8507348

[dbatesman]

Why "Que" and not "Q"? "Que" reads like he's nicknamed for the Spanish relative pronoun.

[RutgersJetFan]

Why "Que" and not "Q"? "Que" reads like he's nicknamed for the Spanish relative pronoun.

THANKS IDZIK

[124]

Pace is a decently good player, but when he was asked (and he was) to do what the pure pass rushers could do, he couldn't, and that is what he was paid to do.

 

Glad he's here, but now he's finally making what he should. A lot of fans only look at the numbers. What happened last offseason, and this one, helps him. Everyone knows he isn't a 10.5 sack guy, but he was in the right place at the right time. He played well. He's a good player to have on the team.