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Jets sign Jacoby Ford


Matt39

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Odd.  Mike is the one who does that plenty.  Don't agree with his stance on passing up on a player, then he rewords you as never wanting to sign anyone, or his new claim that we are disagreeing with him (agreeing with Idzik) because we sincerely want to watch out for Woody Johnson's wallet.  Like that makes any sense.  But he claims that's an opinion of Jets fans even though no one has said, alluded to it, nor does anyone think it.  

 

I can't speak for others, but I have wanted a GM to take this draft-first approach for a while.  Mike wants to look at one draft class, assess their careers based on how they were in their first 2 months of their rookie season, and then abandon this method of team-building for anyone.

 

I wanted Idzik to stay away from pretty much everyone who we couldn't cut bait with if a better player came along through the draft, unless they were sure things to be a productive part of the team a few years from now at least.  Initially - had you asked me in February - I would have included WRs like Decker in that do-not-want category as well.  But that was cost-base.  It was back then the rumors flying around were that he was going to ludicrously get in the $10M/year range, because of a generally weak FA WR class, rather than the barely-$7M we signed him to.  

 

Build through the draft.  Get the best players you can.  Don't go for quick fixes while you're not even sure if you've got a keeper at QB.  If he screws up the draft picks, year after year I'll be pushing you out of the way to be first on line to have him sh*tcanned.  

 

But here you've categorized and labeled the opinions of everyone you disagree with, in exactly the same way you (incorrectly) claim these same "everyone" people are doing to Mike.  Or can you not see you're finding fault with people because of your claim that they're doing the very thing you're doing to all of them? lol

 

Mike has made his own bed by posting ludicrous claims, like Austin Howard is an "impact player," so we therefore should have outbid a Raiders team for him.  A Raiders team who doesn't even have the sense to play him at the position that they overbid for him to play in the first place, and who have made more head-scratching moves this offseason than just that.  If Oakland's GM has this little sense, it does not make more sense to pay even more than he did.  It's not like there was some drawn out fight for Howard's services among 10 teams who wanted him oh so badly.  He's fine.  Mike, however, wants to pay him like a top 5 RT.  We get a bargain instead; a very similarly-ranked player, for millions less, and this too he has an issue with because Giacomini isn't a stud RT.  He's framed it in such a way as getting a so-so RT is only worthwhile if you pay him like a stud.  Then he's an impact player. Giacomini, who started on the SB winner, and whose team had trouble running the ball in his absence, is not an impact player by comparison.  Also he claims we offered almost the same thing as Oakland did, which is factually incorrect.  $17M guaranteed is not almost the same as $12M guaranteed and he knows it.

 

His stances are so inconsistent, if not outright nonsensical, that he's getting appropriate backlash.  It's been going on for years and years.  Where did you think the "mad mike" name came from? He gave that name to himself because he's almost always angry about something.  He's entertaining, though.  It's kind of cute.  

 

I'm not attacking but being honest in that your post stopped making sense after the second sentence or so as there was no theme to follow.  Of course you'll say this makes me stupid as this is the way so many seem to operate here.

 

I'm not really responding to your post but instead reiterating my views and those I read of that poster. 

I never said I support "every" word this guy said but his main theme is correct in that Idzik has unsuccessfully accomplished his goal to fill needs through FA thus allowing for "BPA" in the draft.  As it currently stands, he missed on TE, CB and 2nd WR prospects that Schefter confirmed.  As a result of his inability to sign these positions that have no starters, you have a weak corps of safeties, an iffy OLB position manned by Barnes/Pace, and having to rely on Colon returning which will unfortunately keep Winters at his ill-fitted LG position.  On top of this, we learn that Idzik missed on Donald Brown at RB, Jared Allen at OLB and even Demarcus Ware - these weren't Manish reports. 

 

At some point you have to recognize that he's not getting it done.  No?  Or is this too harsh and too impatient? 

I'm not here to slam the guy as I was impressed with his 1st year and the team had a lot of misfortune with Winters & Milliner hurt in TC and subsequently struggling most of the season, Holmes not able to play, Winslow suspended and unable to perform well, Geno not having targets to help his development, Barnes going down, Cro unable to run with a bad hip...all this and the team managed to go 8-8 with his limited salary cap.  I liked how he addressed OL in the draft and getting Peterman on draft day (although his insurance at LG didn't pan out), trading for Ivory, getting a QB, etc..

 

Going into this offseason, there were obviously needs and where I think he failed and where I agree with that poster is that he didn't adapt to the market.  There was no sense of urgency as day after day passed with all the legitimate starting talent going off the boards. 

I don't think it's unfair to judge him on these results this year.  He managed to put aside a good chunk of money and got some comp picks setting the team up for some depth that is needed.  All good management.  But when I see all these opportunities missed, I can't help but wonder what the heck is going on.  I don't see that as unfair.

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LOL, what?  You mention "placing words in your mouth" regarding a guy who has been quoted saying the things he's been questioned on, and then reference something not one single person has come close to claiming, that the Jets have approached "not a single FA".

 

But as if that's not bad enough, you are seriously saying that the burden of proof should on those to prove that something didn't happen?  Forget football, from an aspect of pure logic this makes no sense.  The lack of evidence that something did occur is, in and of itself, all of the proof you need that it didn't happen.  After all, if these claims were true, it should be very easy to prove that, yet that still hasn't happened despite being asked repeatedly.

 

If you want to be unhappy about everything the Jets do, then you feel free to have fun with that, but that still doesn't make every negative thing conjured up in a post about the team true.

 

He said that the Jets were linked to many free agents.  From what I gather, you are asking him to prove this.  Is that right? 

If so, I'll prove it.

 

And if this is indeed the case, can you show where the Jets have denied interest in such players?  If not, you don't actually have a case as ridiculous as that seems to you.  I'm just playing devil's advocate and trying to be fair.

 

Bottom line - the Jets have been linked to many free agents and the team doesn't deny this.  I am compiling a list that I will alert you and another poster here on this site when I'm completed.

 

To sit there and claim with certainty that the Jets have simply been sitting in their easy chair watching simply watching events unfold without taking any action seems a little unbelievable to me unless you believe (or can prove) that all those links are false.  You can't.  Mehta, yes.  But not all the others. 

Are you going to deny interest by the Jets organization and action towards LaFell, DRC, Munnerlyn, Pettigrew, Vontae, Verner, Donald Brown, Jared Allen and others?  Are you actually stating as FACT that the Jets had no interest, no communication whatsoever?  Please clarify because if so, I'm not through with you.  Maybe I'm just missing something.  Let me know.

 

And it's a shame you must label those who don't agree with you as unhappy or miserable or stupid.  Can you please step up the level/quality of your posts?  Either that or ignore me and others.  I'm here to engage in friendly discussion and/or debate and in this case help out a guy who is being unfairly treated despite his past so-called transgressions...stay on point, please.

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Demarcus Ware and Jared Allen?  LOL. Kicking the tires on those guys and then not signing them is misjudging the market now?   

 

2nd WR?   The link to most other WRs was before Decker. 

 

I firmly deny serious interest in Lafell and Verner.  They didn't close the deal on Pettigrew.  What other TE fits their "needs"?  I'm fine with the CB situation personally, but I know the board is in a tizzy they didn't spend on DRC. 

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He said that the Jets were linked to many free agents.  From what I gather, you are asking him to prove this.  Is that right?

 

Um... no, that's not right.  Perhaps if you don't fully grasp the discussion at hand, you shouldn't tell everyone else why they're wrong.

 

 

If so, I'll prove it.

 

And if this is indeed the case, can you show where the Jets have denied interest in such players?  If not, you don't actually have a case as ridiculous as that seems to you.  I'm just playing devil's advocate and trying to be fair.

 

Bottom line - the Jets have been linked to many free agents and the team doesn't deny this.  I am compiling a list that I will alert you and another poster here on this site when I'm completed.

 

To sit there and claim with certainty that the Jets have simply been sitting in their easy chair watching simply watching events unfold without taking any action seems a little unbelievable to me unless you believe (or can prove) that all those links are false.  You can't.  Mehta, yes.  But not all the others. 

Are you going to deny interest by the Jets organization and action towards LaFell, DRC, Munnerlyn, Pettigrew, Vontae, Verner, Donald Brown, Jared Allen and others?  Are you actually stating as FACT that the Jets had no interest, no communication whatsoever?  Please clarify because if so, I'm not through with you.  Maybe I'm just missing something.  Let me know.

 

And it's a shame you must label those who don't agree with you as unhappy or miserable or stupid.  Can you please step up the level/quality of your posts?  Either that or ignore me and others.  I'm here to engage in friendly discussion and/or debate and in this case help out a guy who is being unfairly treated despite his past so-called transgressions...stay on point, please.

 

The argument was never that the Jets weren't in any way interested in certain players, and nobody has come close to making your ridiculous strawman argument about the Jets not doing anything at all.  Kind of impossible considering they've actually signed people, so I have no idea where you ever even got this from.  This was certainly not the point that was being argued with madmike before you chimed in and isn't even the point that was being argued with you.  The only person who has even made reference to such an idea is you.

 

If you really think that NFL teams should be coming out to deny every single article, blog, and tweet about them, not to mention the thoughts of message board posters, then I really have no idea what to tell you, because that's not based in any sort of reality.

 

You come here preaching about how others act, while being no better than those you're attempting to admonish.  You were putting words that no one has said in the mouths of all that disagreed with one person, and then immediately start judging them for those things that were never said.  You really have no room to be wagging your finger at everyone while trying to paint yourself as the moral authority.  Of course feel free to discuss and debate to your hearts content, but you can't expect to give crap to others and not get it back in return, and you certainly cannot expect anyone to concede to things simply because someone on this board claimed it was true.

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I'm not in love with the FA period, but I don't see the huge misread of the market by Idzik.  He tried for Howard and balked and immediately signed a similar level player considerably cheaper.  He drilled the top WR for a decent price and showed little interest in any others.  They got the QB they (not me) wanted.  Corner is the only place that you can feel worried that what he wanted to do did not fit what happened.  I don't feel that great about what happened there, but I'm not worried and if they are going to go with a weakness I'd rather force Rex to scheme around it then expect to produce with crap on O.  They still can pounce if anybody they like pops up - see Johnson and Jackson.  I'm not in favor of dropping large coin on either, but they were there if we wanted to.  If a guy he likes shakes free they will be able to pounce.  If not, carry the money over and Decker's is the only contract that really involves 2015

last i looked he has had 2 FA period

i grade him no better than a C and I think that is generous

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last i looked he has had 2 FA period

i grade him no better than a C and I think that is generous

 

I don't have a problem with low grading him, but the idea that he "lost out" on every guy we kicked the tires on is a bit much.  He obviously wants to keep flexible.  Since they still have money and have not even had the draft - which he obviously is prioritizing and when more vets become available - it's a little early to blow a gasket over not having an A.  He missed out on 2 players he wanted and didn't get alternatives, Vontae Davis and Pettigrew.  There is no indication that they are looking for just any FA TE, so that's no great loss.

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I don't have a problem with low grading him, but the idea that he "lost out" on every guy we kicked the tires on is a bit much. He obviously wants to keep flexible. Since they still have money and have not even had the draft - which he obviously is prioritizing and when more vets become available - it's a little early to blow a gasket over not having an A. He missed out on 2 players he wanted and didn't get alternatives, Vontae Davis and Pettigrew. There is no indication that they are looking for just any FA TE, so that's no great loss.

Both of whom returned to their original team. So, there's that too.

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I'm not attacking but being honest in that your post stopped making sense after the second sentence or so as there was no theme to follow.  Of course you'll say this makes me stupid as this is the way so many seem to operate here.

 

I'm not really responding to your post but instead reiterating my views and those I read of that poster. 

I never said I support "every" word this guy said but his main theme is correct in that Idzik has unsuccessfully accomplished his goal to fill needs through FA thus allowing for "BPA" in the draft.  As it currently stands, he missed on TE, CB and 2nd WR prospects that Schefter confirmed.  As a result of his inability to sign these positions that have no starters, you have a weak corps of safeties, an iffy OLB position manned by Barnes/Pace, and having to rely on Colon returning which will unfortunately keep Winters at his ill-fitted LG position.  On top of this, we learn that Idzik missed on Donald Brown at RB, Jared Allen at OLB and even Demarcus Ware - these weren't Manish reports. 

 

At some point you have to recognize that he's not getting it done.  No?  Or is this too harsh and too impatient? 

I'm not here to slam the guy as I was impressed with his 1st year and the team had a lot of misfortune with Winters & Milliner hurt in TC and subsequently struggling most of the season, Holmes not able to play, Winslow suspended and unable to perform well, Geno not having targets to help his development, Barnes going down, Cro unable to run with a bad hip...all this and the team managed to go 8-8 with his limited salary cap.  I liked how he addressed OL in the draft and getting Peterman on draft day (although his insurance at LG didn't pan out), trading for Ivory, getting a QB, etc..

 

Going into this offseason, there were obviously needs and where I think he failed and where I agree with that poster is that he didn't adapt to the market.  There was no sense of urgency as day after day passed with all the legitimate starting talent going off the boards. 

I don't think it's unfair to judge him on these results this year.  He managed to put aside a good chunk of money and got some comp picks setting the team up for some depth that is needed.  All good management.  But when I see all these opportunities missed, I can't help but wonder what the heck is going on.  I don't see that as unfair.

 

In keeping with your theme, which I alluded to in my post that you alone couldn't follow, you're opening again with more fabricating and putting words into other peoples' mouths.  And this was, laughably now, your complaint about others.

 

I don't agree that he's not "getting it done." That is your opinion.  I will agree with that if his drafts end up being garbage.  Until then, all we've done is not attempt to build a team from the ground up by throwing top dollar at players who aren't good enough for top dollar, or who are top dollar for players who only have another year or two left in them (like Ware and Allen, who you mentioned).  Donald Brown is merely fine.  Or he was, when used in moderation for half of last season once he realized his team was dumping him in '14.  He isn't anything to use up a box of Kleenex crying over.  Not by a long shot.

 

The only regard in which we "missed" at TE is because Idzik declined to give Brandon Pettigrew $5M/year.  Paying that would have been worse than "missing" out on him.  Pettigrew is a $3M, high-end #2 TE.  You don't overpay players 50% more than they're worth.  Pettigrew was an ideal #2 TE, nothing more.  He's an ok receiver and an ok blocker.  But despite what we were all told he'd be on draft day, he hasn't turned into the great, all-around TE he was expected to be.  Pay him #1 TE money and you're not going to be in a position to do the same if a true sure-thing starter materializes in the draft this year or in FA next season.  Who else? Owen Daniels? No one else wanted him as their starter either.  It was a good value signing by Baltimore, but again, it's not a signing that is going to make/break the season and he's certainly no starting TE of the future for a Jets team searching for one.

 

CB I would have been just fine with some of the ones available, but not at the numbers some of these guys got.  The only one Idzik seemed to really want for higher-end dollars (Verner) ultimately just wanted to stay put in Indy unless we paid him like he's a top 3 corner, which he is not.  This was revealed after he re-signed with the Colts.  Meanwhile two years ago he was statistically one of the worst CBs in the NFL, like Cromartie this past season.  Incidentally, DRC was also kind of crappola 2 years ago, and it's not the first time he's been.  The guy shows up one out of every 3 seasons which is why he keeps bouncing around from team to team.  We offered him a contract that requires him to play well to get paid and he turned it down because he was able to get a deal from the Giants to get paid whether he plays well or sucks.  I'd take the latter deal as well if I was him.  But that's a lot of $ to pay for a guy with a 50/50 or greater shot at being meh.  So it is a slanted opinion that we "missed" out on these guys due to some supposedly-obvious level of incompetence.

 

So you could look at it from the point of view you are, but that POV means we're "missing out" on paying top dollar for CBs who suck every other year.  You can still take a chance on them, and throw some money on the table, but you don't back up the Brinks truck for them and guarantee they're going to get paid year after year for a while whether they perform or not.  That POV also means we "missed out" on paying a #2 TE like he's one of the better ones in the NFL.

 

The way I see our "needs" (as you put it) is that the team still has too many to overspend to fill one or two of them in through free agency when we have a LOT of picks and don't yet know which positions will (1) present the best value; and (2) not be needed based on players we already have here.

 

What's the sense in trying to hit paydirt on a young or high-upside guy who doesn't cost much if you're just going to overpay someone else like a week later? I'm not saying someone like Dowling, or the shrimpy jumping bean from Iowa State, or any supposedly-great value at corner in the draft, are sure things or are even going to pan out.  They're not.  But if any do pan out, we'll miss taking advantage of it if we pay DRC $8M/year to stink 2 out of every 3 seasons again, because that kind of money says he's starting no matter what for a couple of years minimum.  The veteran CB market has gotten totally out of hand in proportion to the position's value IMO.  You can have the best CB, or one of the best CBs, and your team - in fact your defense - can still stink.  We saw that with Revis last year and with Cro the year before.

 

Basically I don't think these opportunities we missed were as great as you and some others seem to.  Every player had a buyer beware footnote, including Decker.  The difference with him is he came so much cheaper than expected, and also we didn't need just 1 outside WR; we needed two.  And you're not finding 2 in the same draft and starting both as rookies.  So we got the (supposedly) best one on the market at the time.  The rest we're picking up players that we can start, but who are easy to move on from if/when the right man does emerge.

 

The only ones that are iffy were Jackson (and LOTS of teams stayed away from him, including his own team from last year) and Verner, who it appears we didn't show interest in due to scheme fit.  Allen and Ware are only good additions for us if they were dirt cheap and neither was.  Those are players for teams who are serious contenders this year who are looking for short-term fixes no matter what the cost, like NE signing Revis.

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