slats Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I think that's the idea. I think that was also the idea behind not picking up players who don't figure to be long-term fixtures in the '13 offseason (as well as moving Revis). What I'm curious to see is how we use them. I don't mean what kind of players (or not just that, anyway). I mean, does Idzik trade up? Does he trade a pick for next year's draft? Or does he even trade down should the value present itself? 12 draftees are not making the roster. Are we going to make 12 picks and cut between 4-7 of them right away? Statistically one can't rely on more than 5 to make the cut, and we don't have a pair of 1st rounders this year to count as sure things among those illustrious 5-6. Will be interesting to see how many players we actually draft this year. He carried all of his draft picks last year. Twelve is a big number. When you recognize that five of them come in the sixth and seventh rounds (with three of those being untradeable), it's not quite as daunting. Maybe he looks at that and uses his own sixth or seventh rounder in a package to move up somewhere along the way, but he was very patient in the draft last year. If I had to guess, I'd think he'd be looking at his first seven picks (rounds 1-5) almost automatically making the team, and the final five being in more of a dogfight. Even then, the losers would be prime practice squad candidates. It's not like this roster is chock full of talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 He carried all of his draft picks last year. Twelve is a big number. When you recognize that five of them come in the sixth and seventh rounds (with three of those being untradeable), it's not quite as daunting. Maybe he looks at that and uses his own sixth or seventh rounder in a package to move up somewhere along the way, but he was very patient in the draft last year. If I had to guess, I'd think he'd be looking at his first seven picks (rounds 1-5) almost automatically making the team, and the final five being in more of a dogfight. Even then, the losers would be prime practice squad candidates. It's not like this roster is chock full of talent. Supposedly, some time ago on SNY, Westhoff was listing one of his biggest complaints that there was no late round, Special Teams only talent being acquired (and kind of insinuating a reason for leaving). And when you look back and keep that statement in mind, with how bad ST has regressed over the past few years, he's probably right. So I agree that the late round picks probably don't amount to much in the majority of game time, but if they field a good ST unit they are worth their weight in gold. My .02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JXD Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I'm not so sure why everyone is in love with Watkins. He's not an accomplished route-runner. The vast majority of his yardage was compiled on screens and handoffs. Ignoring all those handoffs/screens, when I look at his game film all I see aside from some deep routes (against NCAA CB's) are many contested sideline catches. I think his route running has a lot to be desired and has trouble actually gaining separation. Take a look and form your own opinion. http://draftbreakdown.com/players/sammy-watkins/ Why move up when better route-running prospects are available to us which helps Geno's progression more? He needs to count on a WR being in a certain place at a certain time. I honestly don't understand this love for Watkins. Reminds me of the Gholston hype. He was #2 to Deandre Hopkins who went late in the 1st last season. What suddenly makes Watkins this fantastic prospect? He's not to be confused with an AJ Green. I'd take Lee, Evans, Beckham and Cooks over Watkins. I think he will bust as a #1. Back to the point of the thread - I see no reason to trade Kyle Wilson as he plays very good slot and can man the wide side adequately if needed. Patterson is likely to miss time again if history is any indicator. Are you really then going to rely on a rookie on the wide side? We all saw the top prospect in the draft get benched 3 times last season. Rookie CB's don't typically prosper in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I think that's the idea. I think that was also the idea behind not picking up players who don't figure to be long-term fixtures in the '13 offseason (as well as moving Revis). What I'm curious to see is how we use them. I don't mean what kind of players (or not just that, anyway). I mean, does Idzik trade up? Does he trade a pick for next year's draft? Or does he even trade down should the value present itself? 12 draftees are not making the roster. Are we going to make 12 picks and cut between 4-7 of them right away? Statistically one can't rely on more than 5 to make the cut, and we don't have a pair of 1st rounders this year to count as sure things among those illustrious 5-6. Will be interesting to see how many players we actually draft this year. This isn't really something you have to wonder and guess about. Look at the roster. Without getting into reasonable expectations it can at least be said that we're entirely prepared to exercise and hit on every one of our picks and I think that's more the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 This isn't really something you have to wonder and guess about. Look at the roster. Without getting into reasonable expectations it can at least be said that we're entirely prepared to exercise and hit on every one of our picks and I think that's more the point. Because expecting to hit on 12 draft picks is a realistic strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Because expecting to hit on 12 draft picks is a realistic strategy. We carried seven last year on a depth chart that had more dead weight than this one does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 We carried seven last year on a depth chart that had more dead weight than this one does. And how many of those were hits? 1 + a lot of wishful thinking about Smith and Milliner that hasn't really showed up on the field yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 And how many of those were hits? 1 + a lot of wishful thinking about Smith and Milliner that hasn't really showed up on the field yet. Never mind that Milliner finished up the season as both Defensive Player of the Week and Defensive Rookie of the Month. It's good to know that the NFL now awards those for actions that apparently don't really show up on the field. Milliner's play improved immensely over the course of the season and no amount of agenda-driven excuses why it doesn't count will change that. Of course, that's not to mention that trying to evaluate an entire draft class based solely on rookie years is another level of nonsense on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Never mind that Milliner finished up the season as both Defensive Player of the Week and Defensive Rookie of the Month. It's good to know that the NFL now awards those for actions that apparently don't really show up on the field. Milliner's play improved immensely over the course of the season and no amount of agenda-driven excuses why it doesn't count will change that. Of course, that's not to mention that trying to evaluate an entire draft class based solely on rookie years is another level of nonsense on its own. There is no doubt that he played better in the last few games, but he was also TERRIBLE for most of the season. The same goes for Smith. It's completely wishful thinking to ignore that. And while there is reason to be cautiously optimistic about him, there is also alot of reasons to doubt both of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 There is no doubt that he played better in the last few games, but he was also TERRIBLE for most of the season. The same goes for Smith. It's completely wishful thinking to ignore that. And while there is reason to be cautiously optimistic about him, there is also alot of reasons to doubt both of them. There's more reason to be optimistic about Geno and Milliner than pessimistic, it just seems your current personality fits the latter. Rookies struggle, especially at corner and quarterback. When you see two play as well as they did the last quarter of the season, that alone is reason to be optimistic, because it shows they not only are improving, but getting a better handle on the NFL as a whole. There's a reason you don't grade a draft until three years out, these things take time. If they played well in the beginning of the season then faltered towards the end, I'd probably be more pessimistic as well. But hitting their strides in the last four games, that's a good thing. If we get solid contributions this season from Sheldon, Milliner, Winters and Geno, you really couldn't ask for a better drafting than hitting on your first four picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmerc03 Posted April 2, 2014 Author Share Posted April 2, 2014 Welcome to the board Greenmerc03. Don't let any of the "Old Timer's" discourage you. They're like Congress... there should have been term limits long ago, but they cling to power, as their contempt for open discourse, paralyzes the country. As far as trading up with Wilson for currency, I think there is enough value in the draft at the WR position to stay put. There may be a lot of bodies at the CB position, but a lot of question marks.... No sense weakening an already weak position to strengthen another area of weakness. It will be curious to see what the Jets do with Wilson moving forward.... last yr. on his rookie deal. I could see Idzik hoping some other player can step up and take his position, and letting him walk in FA. I would hope to get a comp pick next yr. for him, but as I assume we will be big spenders next yr. in FA (89% rule) we won't get anything. “Ideas are like legs: what good are they if you can't run with them, or spread them?” Jarod Kintz Lol..Thanks for the welcome eboozer. As for some "Old timers" combined with being Jets fans, I would almost expect a sarcastic pessimistic attitude. They are old and have been through much negativity and disappointment. They simply cannot help themselves lol. I am rare, simply optimistic in nature about most things including the Jets, it would take a lot more to discourage me. As for Kyle Wilson, you are probably right about them keeping him and holding ground with all 12 picks in the draft. However his long term future with the team is still very much in question right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 There's more reason to be optimistic about Geno and Milliner than pessimistic, it just seems your current personality fits the latter. Rookies struggle, especially at corner and quarterback. When you see two play as well as they did the last quarter of the season, that alone is reason to be optimistic, because it shows they not only are improving, but getting a better handle on the NFL as a whole. There's a reason you don't grade a draft until three years out, these things take time. If they played well in the beginning of the season then faltered towards the end, I'd probably be more pessimistic as well. But hitting their strides in the last four games, that's a good thing. If we get solid contributions this season from Sheldon, Milliner, Winters and Geno, you really couldn't ask for a better drafting than hitting on your first four picks. You need to relax on how well they played at the end of the season. Geno was better than he was in the first 12 or so games but he still wasn't playing at anywhere near the level he will need to do be a long term QB for this team. And Milliner and Winters were so awful (they shouldn't have even been playing) the majority of the season, they couldn't help but get better.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 You need to relax on how well they played at the end of the season. Geno was better than he was in the first 12 or so games but he still wasn't playing at anywhere near the level he will need to do be a long term QB for this team. And Milliner and Winters were so awful (they shouldn't have even been playing) the majority of the season, they couldn't help but get better.... See, this is why many people exress how difficult it is to have a conversation with you: you take things to extremes and are constantly in a state of aggrivation. The last quarter of the season, Geno compiled a 2:1 TD:INT ratio passing and a 7:2 total TD:INT ratio, for an average QBR of 74. If you extrapolate that for an entire season, that would have been good for 9th overall out of all quarterbacks. Your counter-argument would then be, but we played against poor teams and in meaningless games etc. That's not a point I'm here to argue, it's that his level of play clearly improved and if he was consistent with that, it most certainly would be near the level to be a long term QB for this team. Milliner was bad for the majority of the season, but his technique was not awful. He was still pinching his receivers to the sidelines and giving them short areas to make plays, but he often had mental lapses that cost him. You saw he got the accolades that matched his play the last month of the season as wlel. Winters was bad, very bad, but has a good chunk of games under his belt and you again saw improvement. That's what rookies do, they struggle and then they hopefully get better, which is what we saw. Your constant pessimistic view of how we're the only team with rookies who struggled and somehow will be the only team that has rookies that don't improve is just not realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 The point is that if those rookies don't drastically improve the Jets are going to be very bad next season and them drastically improving isn't a mortal lock especially when, as you even say here, that you're relying on meaningless games vs bad teams! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 He carried all of his draft picks last year. Twelve is a big number. When you recognize that five of them come in the sixth and seventh rounds (with three of those being untradeable), it's not quite as daunting. Maybe he looks at that and uses his own sixth or seventh rounder in a package to move up somewhere along the way, but he was very patient in the draft last year. If I had to guess, I'd think he'd be looking at his first seven picks (rounds 1-5) almost automatically making the team, and the final five being in more of a dogfight. Even then, the losers would be prime practice squad candidates. It's not like this roster is chock full of talent. 12 is a very big number to make every pick. Just saying it would be interesting if he made all 12. He'd be conceding, before the draft even ends, that he's cutting/practice-squad-ing 4-7 of them. It's not necessarily a horrible strategy. If a 6th round pick has a low chance of being something, then taking 3 of them triples those chances. It's just a lot of draft picks to cut immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 There is no doubt that he played better in the last few games, but he was also TERRIBLE for most of the season. The same goes for Smith. It's completely wishful thinking to ignore that. And while there is reason to be cautiously optimistic about him, there is also alot of reasons to doubt both of them. How they played getting used to the NFL has what exactly to do with they finished the last month strong? Why are some clueless to what it takes to perform on this level and are ready to dismiss players struggle as rookies playing 2 of the hardest positions in football? Why does they finally got it done translate into there's a lot of reasons to doubt them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 How they played getting used to the NFL has what exactly to do with they finished the last month strong? Why are some clueless to what it takes to perform on this level and are ready to dismiss players struggle as rookies playing 2 of the hardest positions in football? Why does they finally got it done translate into there's a lot of reasons to doubt them? I'm not dismissing them. I'm just saying that if they don't take major steps forward the jets will be a flat out bad team and that them taking major steps forward isn't a given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I'm not dismissing them. I'm just saying that if they don't take major steps forward the jets will be a flat out bad team and that them taking major steps forward isn't a given. So if they play like last season the Jets will be flat out bad? Like they were last season? Not getting that logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 So if they play like last season the Jets will be flat out bad? Like they were last season? Not getting that logic. Yes. Last year they were a bad team. Anyone who watched the games knows that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Best way to compensate for insufficient CB depth...? Trade the ones you have away!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Yes. Last year they were a bad team. Anyone who watched the games knows that. Well 8-8 and what they did isn't a "flat out bad team". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latinlawyer Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Kyle Wilson sucks as an outside CB. He is pretty good as the slot CB. SO, if you are getting Patterson to replace Kyle on the inside then yes, trade Kyle (kind of a 1st round bust). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.