If the Jets draft defense (RD 1) Tom Shane will hurt himself

[#27TheDominator]

It's the first round.  A great OLB will help us much more than some mid-level CB or WR no matter what our "needs"  Pick the best player and let the chips fall where they may. 

[SouthernJet]

If he hurts himself will we still have a friend in the diamond business?

Taking advice from a Irish guy about diamonds ?

[RutgersJetFan]

If he hurts himself will we still have a friend in the diamond business?

No, but something tells me that future shows would feature a lot more about the anchor industry.

[SenorGato]

No, but something tells me that future shows would feature a lot more about the anchor industry.

 

Make it happen Izdick!

 

Taking advice from a Irish guy about diamonds ?

 

 

Not just ANY Irish!

[FloridaJetsFan]

I was really hoping the Jets would pick up a WR.  But now that Tom Shane has declared he will hurt himself if they go defense, I am hoping for a shiny new CB.

 

Here is what Tom had to say this week on JetNation Radio:

 

If we go corner, if we go defense again in the first round, i’m going to hurt myself. I’m putting it out there on the air, We have got to stop, if the coach is a defensive mastermind you don’t need a first round pick at every position. he has to make a corner one of these days, go do that, make it Rex, make a corner. That’s what you are here for, the offense is putrid.

 

This confuses the issue for you right?  Are you conflicted now?  Offense would be great, but Tom hurting himself is something that benefits everyone.

Our Father, who art in Heaven ...

[SickJetFan]

 Posted by SickJetFan on 17 February 2014 - 06:29 PM in New York Jets Message Board

I think the biggest problems last year

 

1.  QB play - Yes we had bad WRs and yes he was rookie.  I am in the group that thinks he will never be better than average.  I think this because I think his biggest problem last year was accuracy as he was always slightly ahead or behind his WRs.  I dont think that is something he can become elite with given his starting point.  I think his 2nd biggest problem was he was clueless out there he probably made one of the better OL in league look like one of the worst because he does not know how protections work.  This is something he can learn and get better at which may make him a serviceable QB in league.

 

2.  OL - see above yes we have bad QB play that highlighted the OL weaknesses but it was definetly evident at times if we had Joe Montana back there he would have got killed at times too.  Not too mention penalties.  I Do think there is great foundation there and we need to sign Howard.  Not sure Winters should be left guard though I think he is more of a mauling RG and I think Mangold, Winters, and Howard would make an awesome running attack to the right.  Get yourself a true blocking TE, a real FB, and watch what happens.

 

3. Secondary - Cro is done and both S need replacement.  Allen is serviceable but the Jets need a true FS.  I think though that money needs to be invested on the OF side of the ball though and we need to patch work this secondary with 2nd tier players.  Rex needs to put his money where his mouth is.  If he is the best defensive coach of all time (is what he wants us to believe) then he should be able to stop opposing teams with HS players.

 

 

I fully support the OF approach but if DB is BPA then I eat my words - cant pass up percieved value unless the evaluator is suspect like Tom Shane is suspect gay.

[pfilippone]

Forgive the noob question, but how on earth do you arrive at a list of BPA?

How can you say CB Dennard is better than WR Cooks or vice-versa?

How can you say QB Manziel is better than WR Sammy Watkins or vice-versa?

Isn't this comparing apples to an oranges?

The Jets braintrust have subjectively arrived at a list of BPA which is pretty much different from everybody else's list of BPA.

If the Jets pick a CB or WR in round 1, there's no way to tell if it was truly BPA, or need, is there?

It just seems a lot of talk with no way to substantiate anything.  Carry on! 

[Bugg]

3 first rounders used on CBs in 5 years. REXTASTIC!!

 

Giggling. I hate both of these shows. That sissy Calliou too.

 

Once your kids watch the same goddamn show 14 hours a day, you hate all this crap.

 

Hey it's Franklin!Go f__ yourself.

 

Back to the topic-if the jets pick a corner they should blow up Florham Park and forfeit the season. You have to score points. As T0m note, if Wrecks is a defensive genius, how about giving the other side of the ball something (ANYTHING!) to work with?

[77DRAFT]

I'll say it again, drafting a corner would be a cowardice act.

After all the criticism Geno has taken, let him have one good receiver with

speed, which he currently does not have, a decent line, which he didn't have

last year, we've got plenty of picks to get corners with, just not this year,

no way, unless your a cowardice fool.

[JustInFudge]

Now I want my CB prediction to come through for realz.

[faba]

Now I want my CB prediction to come through for realz.

Hah hah double wammy- you would be right on the mark and Tom would be in pain.

[JustInFudge]

Hah hah double wammy- you would be right on the mark and Tom would be in pain.

 

Par for the course.  My dreams come true.  Tom's dreams punch himself in the face.

[kay_gee]

depends on the hurt. is it a sad thing where he'll have to be on anti-depressant on after, or a funny hammer to the scrotum type thing?

I agree with the overall sentiment though. I'd prefer we didn't go CB...or D in general...in the first round, unless they're trading up to 1 or 2 to get Clowney.

[dbatesman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKEsu-eeRYY

[Larz]

without a franchise QB, you can make the argument that stacking the secondary is the next best thing

 

the most reliable predictor of post season and SB success is passer rating differential

 

if you can't get your QB to manning levels, you stack the secondary

[T0mShane]

I completely agree with TomShane's premise, I posted something similar on here a couple days ago. If a defensive coach needs a first round corner on top of the two first round corners, two first round defensive linemen, and first round outside linebacker he's drafted - in the last four drafts, mind you - I don't know how much value his genius is really adding. And that's on top of some other talent on that side of the ball.

Honestly, I don't think I'd mind a first round defensive player so much if it seemed like a good value. But I frankly don't like the first round corner class at all. Dennard has average speed and gets grabby down the field which is going to lead to lots of flags as a rookie. Without the above average speed I don't know if he'll be able to compensate and adjust to the NFL's illegal contact rules really. Gilbert's an elite height weight speed athlete and a playmaker, but got picked on in the intermediate range in college a bunch and is kind of linear. Neither of those bode well for transitioning to the NFL either. Fuller I like besides the injury concerns and is probably my favorite of the bunch, but they could probably get him after 18. I wouldn't complain a ton, but it would be a meh pick. Better in a trade down, but we're still talking #2 corner for the next 5 or so years at best and frankly I'm not sure that guy isn't already on the roster. Roby I'd react to similarly although he's different than Fuller in that he wasn't as good in college but has almost ideal physical tools for the position including ability to flip his hips that I think Gilbert lacks, but he still lacks good technique and was misused in college and got toasted at points. More upside, but more downside too - plus he's had his share of run ins off the field even if he wasn't drunk a week or so ago. And Verrett is small.

Combine the lack of a really appealing player with the lack of a substantial need and I've got no interest in taking a corner. Barr I could get excited about because that's a huge upside pick at a spot that the Jets need help at and I think it's a great fit for both the Jets and Barr. That's about it on the defensive side of the ball though (excluding the ridiculous options like Mack and Clowney that aren't happening), at least for the first round. Safeties are meh too, neither has the elite physical tools or production I'd associate with a first round safety. Pryor's at least made some splashy plays, but give me Ward or Bucannon in the second over HaHa or Pryor in the first any day.

Agree with all of this. Barr would upset me the least because he could turn out to be the sack guy we haven't had here since the early days of Abraham.

You should definitely call in to talk draft next week.

[SenorGato]

That was a damn good post by derp. I agree on everything there - Fuller's the CB I like and I want nothing to do with drafting a DB in the first.

[SoFlaJets]

[Integrity28]

I agree with Tom, unfortunately.

[LurkerKing]

3 first rounders used on CBs in 5 years. REXTASTIC!!

 

The Ninja turtles and the Power Rangers MET eachother? How did I miss this???

[Cyberjet]

Forgive the noob question, but how on earth do you arrive at a list of BPA?

How can you say CB Dennard is better than WR Cooks or vice-versa?

How can you say QB Manziel is better than WR Sammy Watkins or vice-versa?

Isn't this comparing apples to an oranges?

The Jets braintrust have subjectively arrived at a list of BPA which is pretty much different from everybody else's list of BPA.

If the Jets pick a CB or WR in round 1, there's no way to tell if it was truly BPA, or need, is there?

It just seems a lot of talk with no way to substantiate anything. Carry on!

I've been asking the same question but no one seems to engage. You are spot on when you state we are discussing ranked picks based on the Kipers etc of this world. We have no clue who the Jets treasure. (See Richardson) Thus we are spinning our wheels which can be fun in itself. Also I'm always amazed on how Idzik insists on BPA but there are still those who "are gonna hurt themselves " (really?) if the Jets don't go for a need position. If the Jets pick a WR then it just so happens that was their BPA. People need to chill and recognize that the early picks in particular are BPA independent of need.

[Cyberjet]

To answer your BPA - I think it's always BPA (for our team) thus there is always an inherent bias. My guess is that GROUP 1 is elite talent that are exceptional at their respective position. They are ranked within that group and selected if they are at #18. Next level are based on some internal criteria - eg. Rd 1 talent who will impact team immediately. They may then do a lateral assessment (maybe based on need which brings in this bias of need) Thus when #18 rolls around whoever is on top gets picked. The arguments are over with. This is just a guess and probably doesn't answer your question - but in all the interviews I've seen I have never seen anyone ask the question how do you determine BPA between on OL / S/ WR ?

[Bugg]

without a franchise QB, you can make the argument that stacking the secondary is the next best thing

 

the most reliable predictor of post season and SB success is passer rating differential

 

if you can't get your QB to manning levels, you stack the secondary

When you look at all the draft picks and free agent signings form the day the jets drafted Revis, the Jets are an exact example why your premise is nonsense. Revis, Wilson, Cro, Millner-and the offesne got...Sanchez? . Really what has that gotten them?Defenses, even the very best, give up plays. You have to be able tos score to overcome that. Wrecks overvalues defens because it's what he knows.  Further while the DL is good, we've had year after year of drafting for the defensive front and still managed to end up also rans.Big picture-this franchsie spare the first 11 games of Favre has for  the better part of the last 14 seasons hoping Tom Brady gets hurt or retires...and defense. IT HASN'T F__ING WORKED.

 

Insanity is doing the same goddman thign over and over and expecting different results.. THIS FRANCHISE IS INSANE. GET A REAL QB AND CUT THE CRAP.

 

The 30 for 30 about the Marino/Elway/Kelly/O'Brien draft was on. And you look back now and see how many teams including the Jets passed on Jim Kelly and Dan Marino and drafted nobodies(or Ken O'Brien) instead. May be this isn't that good a QB class, but if there isn't a good QB in this draft figure out how to poach one. This is not gonna work.

[MexiRoll6]

Who cares?

[Larz]

When you look at all the draft picks and free agent signings form the day the jets drafted Revis, the Jets are an exact example why your premise is nonsense. Revis, Wilson, Cro, Millner-and the offesne got...Sanchez? . Really what has that gotten them?Defenses, even the very best, give up plays. You have to be able tos score to overcome that. Wrecks overvalues defens because it's what he knows.  Further while the DL is good, we've had year after year of drafting for the defensive front and still managed to end up also rans.Big picture-this franchsie spare the first 11 games of Favre has for  the better part of the last 14 seasons hoping Tom Brady gets hurt or retires...and defense. IT HASN'T F__ING WORKED.

 

Insanity is doing the same goddman thign over and over and expecting different results.. THIS FRANCHISE IS INSANE. GET A REAL QB AND CUT THE CRAP.

 

The 30 for 30 about the Marino/Elway/Kelly/O'Brien draft was on. And you look back now and see how many teams including the Jets passed on Jim Kelly and Dan Marino and drafted nobodies(or Ken O'Brien) instead. May be this isn't that good a QB class, but if there isn't a good QB in this draft figure out how to poach one. This is not gonna work.

 

I never said don't try to get a QB, lol

 

check the hawks stats last year for offensive and defensive passer rating.  if you don't have manning or brady you build a defense to stop them.  put 2 stud safeties on this team and they go places, even with geno at QB. 

 

most teams try to get a real QB

 

thing is, every decade produces about 5 of them in a 32 team league

 

which unit carried this team to 4 road playoff wins in 2 years ? 

 

you can win with good offense and great defense. 

[lamont_jordan_rules]

Tempting ... but after much thought i'd still like OBJ, Cooks, or perhaps even Lee

[T0mShane]

Tempting ... but after much thought i'd still like OBJ, Cooks, or perhaps even Lee

Thanks for your support.

[derp]

Agree with all of this. Barr would upset me the least because he could turn out to be the sack guy we haven't had here since the early days of Abraham.

You should definitely call in to talk draft next week.

 

Sounds fun, I might be able to make that happen depending on timing. Fair warning, only difference between me and everyone else who's opinionated about this stuff and pretends they know what they're talking about is that I'm more verbose. 

[Matt39]

Cooks and Beckham arent super prospects so...IDK. I guess Fuller is good. Clinton-Dix I think will be there at 18 too.

[faba]

 We have been directed by Tom Shane to take all sharp objects away on Thursday

[Matt39]

Basically if we're scared of going defense again and Watkins drops out of the top 5- it's trade up time imo.

[jgb]

tom is right. defense masterminds should be able to coach some mid rounders up.

[Panzer Division Marduk]

Okay, Tom. The stage is yours.

[SenorGato]

Hahahahhahahahaahahahahah

[T0mShane]

Because when you watched the Jets last year, you said, "damn, if only they had an average safety prospect."