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This week's podcast guest: JetNation Members

T0mShane

By T0mShane
in NY Jets Forum

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Maxman

Maxman

Posted
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I just gave Toon your phone number.

 

Wouldn't be the first time I had to change my phone number because of JetNation.  When I walk into the Verizon store they know why I am there.  

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bitonti

bitonti

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just caught the replay 

 

reactions: 

 

1) Idzik doesn't "give" Rex picks. Tajh Boyd is not John Conner. He's not Dave Yovanovitz. Boyd is worth a 6th round pick on his big game film alone. He should beat out Simms easy, and backup Geno after Vick leaves. 

 

2) Courtney takes alot of crap but is underrated as a football mind. I agree with her pick of Pryor of favorite pick. 

 

3) Pryor was the best available player and will start right away. It's arguably a better pick to take a difference making 1st safety off the board than a 4th WR or a 3rd CB. 

 

4) Villian The Foe sounded smart as hell. Gamechangers. You got it buddy. 

 

5) Was impressed by TS's self control. new meds? 

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Favorite_Toon

Favorite_Toon

Posted
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just caught the replay

reactions:

1) Idzik doesn't "give" Rex picks. Tajh Boyd is not John Conner. He's not Dave Yovanovitz. Boyd is worth a 6th round pick on his big game film alone. He should beat out Simms easy, and backup Geno after Vick leaves.

2) Courtney takes alot of crap but is underrated as a football mind. I agree with her pick of Pryor of favorite pick.

3) Pryor was the best available player and will start right away. It's arguably a better pick to take a difference making 1st safety off the board than a 4th WR or a 3rd CB.

4) Villian The Foe sounded smart as hell. Gamechangers. You got it buddy.

5) Was impressed by TS's self control. new meds?

Courtney is an,underrated football mind? Maybe I'm the only one with balls to say this but if Courtney's name was Charles or Christopher you wouldn't be saying that..

I will take a HOF quarteback that has many years of experience playing the position that's he offering his opinion on over Courtney any day.. this isn't a beauty contest..

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bitonti

bitonti

Posted
Posted

Courtney is an,underrated football mind? Maybe I'm the only one with balls to say this but if Courtney's name was Charles or Christopher you wouldn't be saying that.

 

 the host asked everyone who their favorite pick was... i could be wrong but only Courtney said Calvin Pryor? 

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T0mShane

T0mShane

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Then what is geno smith? He can read defenses better then vick? Better arm? More elusive? Only knock is durability.. I love how everyone loves geno Smith now..

Vick throws the ball harder than Geno. That's the only thing he does better at this stage.

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Maxman

Maxman

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The Berkowitz love for Vick is cute. It has to somehow be a DNA thing. There is no Other explanation.

I liked Brandon's response listing all the L's last season under Vick.

Vick is not a good QB. He is a good backup. The jets know this.

Marty Morhinweg feels that Geno is better right now. Which is why Geno will start.

This is clear to almost everyone.

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T0mShane

T0mShane

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The Berkowitz love for Vick is cute. It has to somehow be a DNA thing. There is no Other explanation.

I liked Brandon's response listing all the L's last season under Vick.

Vick is not a good QB. He is a good backup. The jets know this.

Marty Morhinweg feels that Geno is better right now. Which is why Geno will start.

This is clear to almost everyone.

Vick is the finger they're going to stick into the dam if Geno implodes. In order to make the argument that he's "better," you have to completely ignore the last two+ years of his play.

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Gastineau Lives

Gastineau Lives

Posted
Posted

The Berkowitz love for Vick is cute. It has to somehow be a DNA thing. There is no Other explanation.

I liked Brandon's response listing all the L's last season under Vick.

Vick is not a good QB. He is a good backup. The jets know this.

Marty Morhinweg feels that Geno is better right now. Which is why Geno will start.

This is clear to almost everyone.

 

Brandon's answer was sh*t. They were two and three with him under center, yeah but two of those losses were against the Broncos and the Chiefs and the other one they put up 30, he threw for 428 2tds and no interceptions  against the Chargers and lost by a point, you want to hang those losses on him, huh?

 

So in Brandon (and now Phil's) universe

 

Player A - 23 for 36 428 yards, 2tds and no interceptions 123.4 passer rating and he ran for 34 yards and a TD but his team loses = HORRIBLE QB  LOSER

 

Player B - 8 for 19 115 yards 0td 0 Int passer rating of 62.4 but his team wins because of defense and great rushing game = STUD

 

You want to talk about wins and losses so let's talk about wins and losses. What record SHOULD a guy that threw 12 tds and 21 interceptions  qualifying him as the 37th ranked QB in football have? Thirteenth best record in football? You think Geno Smith was going to beat the Chiefs and Broncos? You'd have the Jets favored in those games, huh? And you'd have them favored because of Geno Smith, right?

 

I guess Geno Smith is better than Eli Manning since Manning lost to the Chiefs, Broncos, Chargers and his team finished 7-9.

 

This is like you arguing that Joey Harrington, after his rookie season was better than Michael Vick. No, you say, Joey Harrington, that guy is a joke. Well, actually, now he is, because he played to Geno Smith levels his first three seasons in the league.

 

In games that Geno Smith played to Michael Vick's season passer rating or better, the Jets went 4-0. Never mind that Vick also ran for 306 yards in the six and a half games he played which would be a 900 yard season. Geno ran for 60 more yards for the entire season combined.

 

I'm not saying that Vick should start next season, we need to see what Smith is and Vick starting would be a waste, but an issue was made out of me making what was a pretty sure statement if you're talking about facts and not hope and faith and getting blasted for it like I'M the idiot.

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Gastineau Lives

Gastineau Lives

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The Berkowitz love for Vick is cute. It has to somehow be a DNA thing. There is no Other explanation.

 

 

I can't believe that cousin Joe didn't even send me a free grill.

 

I also have more relatives than I thought:

 

Who should start at quarterback for the Jets?

  •  
    12%
    Tajh Boyd
  •  
    4%
    Matt Simms
  •  
    23%
    Geno Smith
  •  
    61%
    Michael Vick

(Total votes: 53,339)

 

(Me, Joe and my brother split the votes, 17,600 each we clicked in every state across the country, I mean how else can you explain it?)

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Gastineau Lives

Gastineau Lives

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Vick is the finger they're going to stick into the dam if Geno implodes. In order to make the argument that he's "better," you have to completely ignore the last two+ years of his play.

 

Over the last four years, his passer ratings have been, 100, 85, 78 and 86. Can we make a list of things you're ignoring regarding Geno Smith?

 

There is not one shred of evidence that would indicate that Geno Smith, right now is a better QB than Michael Vick. It can happen as soon as next year, but right now, there's nothing to support that idea.

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bitonti

bitonti

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all this talk about Geno is starting QB is missing the fact that they are paying Mike Vick 5 million dollars this season. He's the 4th highest paid player on the team. This team doesn't pay anyone to sit. Vick is gonna play. 

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slats

slats

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Over the last four years, his passer ratings have been, 100, 85, 78 and 86. Can we make a list of things you're ignoring regarding Geno Smith?

 

In three of those four years, he had Maclin, McCoy, Celek, and Jackson to throw to. Not only a significantly better group than the what the Jets trotted out last year, but consistency the Jets can't even imagine at the offensive skill positions. And yet, that 100 passer rating was a long time ago. He also dropped double-digit fumbles in three of four of those years, despite never playing in more than 13 games (the only season he dropped less than 10 was his 7 game season last year, but he was on pace!). 

 

Geno will start because he represents upside. If it's at all close -and it will be- Geno gets the nod. Why? Because they want him to win the job and prove he can start in this league. They want to be settled at the QB position. If they're forced to hand the team to Vick, they're also forced to try to find a QB again in next year's draft. 

 

Comparing a rookie with horrible receiving options to a 13 year vet is kinda ridiculous. In Vick's rookie year, his passer rating was worse than Geno's rookie year. Vick's career comp % is 56.2, Geno, in his absolute crap rookie campaign completed 55.8% of his throws. Again, to crap receivers. Geno came on at the end of the year. His comp % was up, his rushing yards were up, and his turnovers were down. He's got a full year under his belt, and a better cast to work with this season. He's gonna start, and he deserves to start. Embrace it.

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Gastineau Lives

Gastineau Lives

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In three of those four years, he had Maclin, McCoy, Celek, and Jackson to throw to. Not only a significantly better group than the what the Jets trotted out last year, but consistency the Jets can't even imagine at the offensive skill positions. And yet, that 100 passer rating was a long time ago. He also dropped double-digit fumbles in three of four of those years, despite never playing in more than 13 games (the only season he dropped less than 10 was his 7 game season last year, but he was on pace!). 

 

Geno will start because he represents upside. If it's at all close -and it will be- Geno gets the nod. Why? Because they want him to win the job and prove he can start in this league. They want to be settled at the QB position. If they're forced to hand the team to Vick, they're also forced to try to find a QB again in next year's draft. 

 

Comparing a rookie with horrible receiving options to a 13 year vet is kinda ridiculous. In Vick's rookie year, his passer rating was worse than Geno's rookie year. Vick's career comp % is 56.2, Geno, in his absolute crap rookie campaign completed 55.8% of his throws. Again, to crap receivers. Geno came on at the end of the year. His comp % was up, his rushing yards were up, and his turnovers were down. He's got a full year under his belt, and a better cast to work with this season. He's gonna start, and he deserves to start. Embrace it.

 

Until you can prove that the difference in receivers is why Geno Smith is better, it's all an assumption.

 

I WANT Smith to start, but I'm certainly not wrong in saying that right now Vick is better. You could say Geno Smith MIGHT be better, but to say it with any degree of certainty and that anyone that says differently has obviously got something in his DNA to think so,  is a stretch and that's being kind.

 

You want to start the Mark Sanchez had no weapons argument again?

 

If Geno Smith was a free agent coming into this season, what do you think his asking price should have been? Were teams going to line up for his services? Would GM's say to themselves, "Hey, look at the sh*tty weapons he had, this guy has got something, let's throw money at him and pray he takes it." You think any GM in his right mind is making that rationalization and spending 5 mil on him, let alone Mr. Tightass himself?

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slats

slats

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Until you can prove that the difference in receivers is why Geno Smith is better, it's all an assumption.

 

I WANT Smith to start, but I'm certainly not wrong in saying that right now Vick is better. You could say Geno Smith MIGHT be better, but to say it with any degree of certainty and that anyone that says differently has obviously got something in his DNA to think so,  is a stretch and that's being kind.

 

You want to start the Mark Sanchez had no weapons argument again?

 

If Geno Smith was a free agent coming into this season, what do you think his asking price should have been? Were teams going to line up for his services? Would GM's say to themselves, "Hey, look at the sh*tty weapons he had, this guy has got something, let's throw money at him and pray he takes it." You think any GM in his right mind is making that rationalization and spending 5 mil on him, let alone Mr. Tightass himself?

 

Those two statements contradict each other. 

 

Mark Sanchez was handled terribly. Whether he would've been terrible anyway, I guess, is up for debate (enter long post by Sperm). Geno is being handled better. He might even be better than Vick, who's a year older, coming off another injury, and playing for a new team. Even if he's not, Vick will have to be better by a significant amount to beat out Geno. They will give Geno every opportunity to seize the starting job. And they should. They don't want to go into the 2015 offseason wondering if Geno still might be able to be the guy. They'll want to know definitively one way or the other, and the only way to know that is to play him. 

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Gastineau Lives

Gastineau Lives

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Comparing a rookie with horrible receiving options to a 13 year vet is kinda ridiculous.

 

Really, Slats? Any more ridiculous than comparing a guy that had stats that landed dozens of QB's in the past that were out of football within three or four years to a 13 year veteran that still has managed to stay in the league even after committing atrocities and going to prison for two years?

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Gastineau Lives

Gastineau Lives

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 He might even be better than Vick, who's a year older, coming off another injury, and playing for a new team. Even if he's not, Vick will have to be better by a significant amount to beat out Geno. They will give Geno every opportunity to seize the starting job. And they should. They don't want to go into the 2015 offseason wondering if Geno still might be able to be the guy. They'll want to know definitively one way or the other, and the only way to know that is to play him. 

 

I agree with all of this, nothing I've said has indicated otherwise. But it has to be shown on the field. Right now, it hasn't.

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slats

slats

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Really, Slats? Any more ridiculous than comparing a guy that had stats that landed dozens of QB's in the past that were out of football within three or four years to a 13 year veteran that still has managed to stay in the league even after committing atrocities and going to prison for two years?

 

Like I said, Vick's rookie year was worse than Geno's, and he's gone on to have a rather mediocre career. Geno never should've started last year. He came from a gimmick offense in college, and had no talent to work with last year on the Jets. Any judgement of the guy is implicitly unfair, IMHO. He got better as the year went on, and has an offseason under his belt now. He has to show a lot more next year. Like perform at or above the level of Michael Vick's career passer rating of 80.9. Seems pretty doable. 

 

Bottom line, I'm highly confident that Geno will start the season. It's not that I like him, or that I'm convinced they like him, it's that we all want to be sold on him. Only way that happens is if he plays. They will give him that opportunity - barring a massive breakdown. 

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Gastineau Lives

Gastineau Lives

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Like I said, Vick's rookie year was worse than Geno's, and he's gone on to have a rather mediocre career. Geno never should've started last year. He came from a gimmick offense in college, and had no talent to work with last year on the Jets. Any judgement of the guy is implicitly unfair, IMHO. He got better as the year went on, and has an offseason under his belt now. He has to show a lot more next year. Like perform at or above the level of Michael Vick's career passer rating of 80.9. Seems pretty doable. 

 

Bottom line, I'm highly confident that Geno will start the season. It's not that I like him, or that I'm convinced they like him, it's that we all want to be sold on him. Only way that happens is if he plays. They will give him that opportunity - barring a massive breakdown. 

 

Well, that's the whole thing, Slats. Michael Vick is a better quarterback than Michael Vick was in his rookie year. Comparisons might be ridiculous, but then you have to understand that door swings both ways. Also, as ridiculous as comparisons are, they're also inevitable in this situation.

 

Again, in games that Geno Smith played at horrible Michael Vick levels, the team went 4-0. This is a reason for optimism.

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T0mShane

T0mShane

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You lost all credibility when you said that Dan Marino at 53 could play QB better right now than Michael Vick.

My point was that, using your criteria, Dan Marino was better than Geno Smith right now. IN YOUR FACE

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