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Top 20 Jets on the Roster - There will be no arguing with this list.


nj meadowlands

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I'm blaming Idzik because he's still sitting on $30M in cap space.

 

First, it's not $30M; it's barely over $20M.

 

Second, it is totally normal for teams to have $5-10M in cap space at this point (if not when they enter the season outright).

 

So you're down to between $10-15M in true additional spending space a team would commonly use (less than half your figure).

 

I look at it as $50M next year instead of $35M next year. And this FA class was nothing to get a stiffy over. As it is, we got some of the best players available at need positions. I'm sure there's another we'll look back on and say we should have signed this one or that one. But no one's going to go back and say, "Whew, thankfully Idzik kept it in his pants and didn't sign almost every guy I was clamoring for. It would have burned through this extra space and boyyy did they suck in '14."

 

I want to see the results of what we drafted before I get on him for not signing additional veterans at those same positions.  Remember, throwing huge dollars at an unworthy veteran, Sanchez, may have ended up being the only reason we didn't draft Russell Wilson. Sometimes it's the moves you don't make that propel the team and cause it to land someone far better.

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 I look at it as $50M next year instead of $35M next year. 

 

two offseasons ago, Idzik didn't spend and everyone said it was cause they didn't have space. 

 

Now he's got space. And next year he'll have even more space (the cap is rumored to rise 5-10 mil again) 

 

It could just be that Idzik told Woody in the interview he'd run this team like a small market team. And that was music to Woody's ears. Idzik is the anti-Tanny. No trades, no trade ups and no big deals to vets. 

 

if you look at teams like Green Bay, they use all their draft picks and only really spend on their own home grown guys (the ones they don't let walk).  when they do sign someone from outside it looks like the Eric Decker deal (2 years at 7 mil per). 

 

the Jets fans are used to a NY style GM (in the tradition of George Steinbrenner) this is a pittsburgh style GM in the tradition of people no one's ever heard of

 

btw im not saying this is bad or good. It might be a better way to go. BUt let's not fool ourselves into thinking NEXT year Idzik is suddenly going to be a big spender. 

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two offseasons ago, Idzik didn't spend and everyone said it was cause they didn't have space. 

 

Now he's got space. And next year he'll have even more space (the cap is rumored to rise 5-10 mil again) 

 

It could just be that Idzik told Woody in the interview he'd run this team like a small market team. And that was music to Woody's ears. Idzik is the anti-Tanny. No trades, no trade ups and no big deals to vets. 

 

if you look at teams like Green Bay, they use all their draft picks and only really spend on their own home grown guys (the ones they don't let walk).  when they do sign someone from outside it looks like the Eric Decker deal (2 years at 7 mil per). 

 

the Jets fans are used to a NY style GM (in the tradition of George Steinbrenner) this is a pittsburgh style GM in the tradition of people no one's ever heard of

 

btw im not saying this is bad or good. It might be a better way to go. BUt let's not fool ourselves into thinking NEXT year Idzik is suddenly going to be a big spender. 

 

that method works when you figured out the qb

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two offseasons ago, Idzik didn't spend and everyone said it was cause they didn't have space. 

 

Now he's got space. And next year he'll have even more space (the cap is rumored to rise 5-10 mil again) 

 

It could just be that Idzik told Woody in the interview he'd run this team like a small market team. And that was music to Woody's ears. Idzik is the anti-Tanny. No trades, no trade ups and no big deals to vets. 

 

if you look at teams like Green Bay, they use all their draft picks and only really spend on their own home grown guys (the ones they don't let walk).  when they do sign someone from outside it looks like the Eric Decker deal (2 years at 7 mil per). 

 

the Jets fans are used to a NY style GM (in the tradition of George Steinbrenner) this is a pittsburgh style GM in the tradition of people no one's ever heard of

 

btw im not saying this is bad or good. It might be a better way to go. BUt let's not fool ourselves into thinking NEXT year Idzik is suddenly going to be a big spender. 

 

It could also be that he only thought a couple of guys were worthy of using that space on.  We spoke with others who we didn't end up signing (Davis being the most obvious).

We have an enormous ? at the most important position.  Seems foolish to me to blow through all available cap room around a guy who isn't worth it.  What's more, then if he is worth it, we'll need the space to re-sign him as well.  It's easy to look at all the space when the QB position now requires maybe $6M for all 3-4 of them.

 

We'll see. Show me a team with a QB situation similar to ours, as it is now and how it's been in recent years, who spent everything they had to put high-dollar FAs at every perceived hole, and it led to a SB.  I can't think of one example. Ever.  Yet failing to do this very thing - again - is seen as significantly indicative of something that it may have nothing to do with.

 

In other words, he may just be holding onto our cap space until there's a reason to spend it better than "because it's there."

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It could also be that he only thought a couple of guys were worthy of using that space on.  We spoke with others who we didn't end up signing (Davis being the most obvious).

We have an enormous ? at the most important position.  Seems foolish to me to blow through all available cap room around a guy who isn't worth it.  What's more, then if he is worth it, we'll need the space to re-sign him as well.  It's easy to look at all the space when the QB position now requires maybe $6M for all 3-4 of them.

 

We'll see. Show me a team with a QB situation similar to ours, as it is now and how it's been in recent years, who spent everything they had to put high-dollar FAs at every perceived hole, and it led to a SB.  I can't think of one example. Ever.  Yet failing to do this very thing - again - is seen as significantly indicative of something that it may have nothing to do with.

 

In other words, he may just be holding onto our cap space until there's a reason to spend it better than "because it's there."

 

 

No, not the Super Bowl, but the AFC Championship.  Twice.

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No, not the Super Bowl, but the AFC Championship.  Twice.

 

Yeah we are probably the best example of the wrong approach--although it did almost work. A real credit to Rex's defense the first two years here.

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Demario Davis has got to be higher than that. No way Coples or Patterson or Milliner or Geno are better players at their respective position than Davis right now.

coples is 5xs the player than Davis ATM. Once coples ankle healed up ( you know he broke it in Training camp) about week 8. He was dominate. AA pick six vs Brady, only happened because Coples almost forced a fumble the play before and was getting pressure on Brady again when he threw the pick. Lets not forget the Saints game too, which he was in Brees face the entire game.

He also ranked after week 8.+4.5 on PFF and avg. 4 pressures a game. Which is at an elite level. 

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It could also be that he only thought a couple of guys were worthy of using that space on.  We spoke with others who we didn't end up signing (Davis being the most obvious).

We have an enormous ? at the most important position.  Seems foolish to me to blow through all available cap room around a guy who isn't worth it.  What's more, then if he is worth it, we'll need the space to re-sign him as well.  It's easy to look at all the space when the QB position now requires maybe $6M for all 3-4 of them.

 

We'll see. Show me a team with a QB situation similar to ours, as it is now and how it's been in recent years, who spent everything they had to put high-dollar FAs at every perceived hole, and it led to a SB.  I can't think of one example. Ever.  Yet failing to do this very thing - again - is seen as significantly indicative of something that it may have nothing to do with.

 

In other words, he may just be holding onto our cap space until there's a reason to spend it better than "because it's there."

People also forget the jets are a very young team, and we are going to need the cap space to sign our own home grown players. Like, Wilk, Kerely..etc. I think 7 D players and 5 O players all had less then 3 years experience in the NFL  last year. All under 25yrsold too.

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In other words, he may just be holding onto our cap space until there's a reason to spend it better than "because it's there."

 

he might. Or he might never spend it. there are some teams in the league for example the Eagles that are perpetually 10 mil below the cap. my point is don't just assume he's going to spend in the future just because that's what we hope happens. Or that the uncertainty in the QB situation is what's holding him back. It's wishful thinking. There's no evidence that this guy will ever spend. Chances are he's always going to lowball and the people who become Jets accept that lowball offer.

 

and let me also reiterate that I am not saying this is a bad thing. It could be a great way to run the team. Time will tell. 

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he might. Or he might never spend it. there are some teams in the league for example the Eagles that are perpetually 10 mil below the cap. my point is don't just assume he's going to spend in the future just because that's what we hope happens. Or that the uncertainty in the QB situation is what's holding him back. It's wishful thinking. There's no evidence that this guy will ever spend. Chances are he's always going to lowball and the people who become Jets accept that lowball offer.

 

and let me also reiterate that I am not saying this is a bad thing. It could be a great way to run the team. Time will tell. 

Under the bargaining agreement teams must use up to 89% of cap space in a 3 year period. So he can not just keep what we have now for the foreseeable future. He will have to spend it.

 

'Another addition to the most recent CBA, the minimum spending requirement says that the amount of cash that teams spend must be at least 89% of the total salary cap from 2013-2016. Teams can spend less than 89% in one given season, but the cumulative spending from 2013-2016 must be at least 89'

 

that's from www.overthecap.com used be just a jets cap site too.

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Someone make a top 20 for the Patriots for s's and g's

 

Ok ***

 

1. Gronkowski

2. Revis

3. Brady

4. Vollmer

5. McCourty

6. Mankins

7. Edelman

8. Chandler Jones

9. Mayo

10. Solder

11. Ninkovich

12. Wilfork

13. Gostkowski

14. Hightower

15. Browner

16. Vereen

17. Amendola

18. Collins

19. Ridley

20. Lafell

 

*** This list is by NO means final.

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Ok ***

1. Gronkowski

2. Revis

3. Brady

4. Vollmer

5. McCourty

6. Mankins

7. Edelman

8. Chandler Jones

9. Mayo

10. Solder

11. Ninkovich

12. Wilfork

13. Gostkowski

14. Hightower

15. Browner

16. Vereen

17. Amendola

18. Collins

19. Ridley

20. Lafell

*** This list is by NO means final.

Ok, now combine the Pats and the Jets into a top 20. Who has more?

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he might. Or he might never spend it. there are some teams in the league for example the Eagles that are perpetually 10 mil below the cap. my point is don't just assume he's going to spend in the future just because that's what we hope happens. Or that the uncertainty in the QB situation is what's holding him back. It's wishful thinking. There's no evidence that this guy will ever spend. Chances are he's always going to lowball and the people who become Jets accept that lowball offer.

 

and let me also reiterate that I am not saying this is a bad thing. It could be a great way to run the team. Time will tell.

I'm totally fine with not going all out on guys who aren't necessarily worth it. Also I don't agree that we just lowball everyone. This would mean that everyone who signed here did so out of the goodness of their hearts or because they believe the Jets are so awesome. That we weren't the highest bidder for anyone that we picked up and anyone we will pick up, which is not only a ludicrous claim, it is also baseless.

He can't just be $30M or whatever below the cap every year (not that he was last year or is this year), even if that was what he wanted to do. So your notion that he never will spend more is an impossibility.

While you say there's no evidence the guy will ever spend, there is evidence that the owner - the guy whose money it actually is - has been very willing to spend. And it's the owner's money, not Idzik's.

It is entirely possible, since he was already granted a large mulligan given the situation he walked into, that he's just first seeing who he ends up with in a draft or two before going all out on a position in free agency. Particularly ones where the market is ridiculous right now (like corner). But he'll throw an offer out there for what he feels a player is worth to the team. If that's below the player's market value then someone else can sign him.

I DO hope it means the end of $9M/year deals for Santonio Holmes or $13M/year extensions for Mark Sanchez, each with over $20M guaranteed. Or handing a $9M/year contract to David Harris where he counts $12M & $13M in the middle years (and $30M of the $36M deal is guaranteed). And the constant trading away of draft picks to pick up still more players in contract years. Just awful stuff.

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Ok ***

 

1. Gronkowski

2. Revis

3. Brady

4. Vollmer

5. McCourty

6. Mankins

7. Edelman

8. Chandler Jones

9. Mayo

10. Solder

11. Ninkovich

12. Wilfork

13. Gostkowski

14. Hightower

15. Browner

16. Vereen

17. Amendola

18. Collins

19. Ridley

20. Lafell

 

*** This list is by NO means final.

 

Edelman at 7?  Ahead of Chandler Jones, Vince Wilfork, Mayo and Solder?  Lmao.  Dude averages like 4 yards per catch. 

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 Also I don't agree that we just lowball everyone. This would mean that everyone who signed here did so out of the goodness of their hearts or because they believe the Jets are so awesome. That we weren't the highest bidder for anyone that we picked up and anyone we will pick up, which is not only a ludicrous claim, it is also baseless. 

 

No one left money on the table to sign with the Jets. Let me try to explain the lowball tactic. 

 

A bunch of players (corners and pettigrew) heard what the Jets had to say and left without a deal.  They got better deals. 

 

the Jets' "lowball" offer was a low one compared to what they were supposed to get... some guys turned it down, and several didn't. those offers were maybe not what they were expecting but the highest ones available to each player who actually signed. 

 

in that sense the market is right and the players were wrong. When Eric Decker signed for 7 mil that's his value. His value never got to the 9 or 10 mil mark his agents were trying for... the market set his value at 7 million. The idea that he's worth more is imaginary.  

 

I don't think Idzik is a terrible GM if fact it's quite the opposite. Just trying to suss out his style. it's deliberate and a tough way to to negotiate and unlike Tanny he doesn't bid against himself. 

 

My main point is that Idziks style is to look for weak spots in the market. He's not paying retail. I don't think that changes when the team gets closer to a title or when they get more cap space. It's his style. the man used 12 draft picks this year that's deliberate. 

 

BTW the Jets can spend up to the floor (89%) and still be 15 mil below the cap. 

 

One way to look at it is if Geno Smith (or Tajh or whoever) becomes amazing, they would have to pay that guy Flacco money and take up 15-17% of the cap in one player. And that would be what the Jets were 'saving' the cap space for...  but on the other hand it's saving for an unlikely outcome.  This offseason the Jets seemed surprised that the cap was raised as high as it was...  overly conservative planning. 

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No one left money on the table to sign with the Jets. Let me try to explain the lowball tactic. 

 

A bunch of players (corners and pettigrew) heard what the Jets had to say and left without a deal.  They got better deals. 

 

the Jets' "lowball" offer was a low one compared to what they were supposed to get... some guys turned it down, and several didn't. those offers were maybe not what they were expecting but the highest ones available to each player who actually signed. 

 

in that sense the market is right and the players were wrong. When Eric Decker signed for 7 mil that's his value. His value never got to the 9 or 10 mil mark his agents were trying for... the market set his value at 7 million. The idea that he's worth more is imaginary.  

 

I don't think Idzik is a terrible GM if fact it's quite the opposite. Just trying to suss out his style. it's deliberate and a tough way to to negotiate and unlike Tanny he doesn't bid against himself. 

 

My main point is that Idziks style is to look for weak spots in the market. He's not paying retail. I don't think that changes when the team gets closer to a title or when they get more cap space. It's his style. the man used 12 draft picks this year that's deliberate. 

 

BTW the Jets can spend up to the floor (89%) and still be 15 mil below the cap. 

 

One way to look at it is if Geno Smith (or Tajh or whoever) becomes amazing, they would have to pay that guy Flacco money and take up 15-17% of the cap in one player. And that would be what the Jets were 'saving' the cap space for...  but on the other hand it's saving for an unlikely outcome.  This offseason the Jets seemed surprised that the cap was raised as high as it was...  overly conservative planning. 

 

a lowball is an insultingly low starting number designed to lower the "meet in the middle" price

 

it is wholly different than simply being outbid

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coples is 5xs the player than Davis ATM. Once coples ankle healed up ( you know he broke it in Training camp) about week 8. He was dominate. AA pick six vs Brady, only happened because Coples almost forced a fumble the play before and was getting pressure on Brady again when he threw the pick. Lets not forget the Saints game too, which he was in Brees face the entire game.

He also ranked after week 8.+4.5 on PFF and avg. 4 pressures a game. Which is at an elite level.

Davis was probably the most important defensive player that wasn't on the dline last year. Yes Coples played well at times but as of right now he can't be put ahead of Davis. Could Coples be better than Davis after this year...hopefully, but as of right now there isn't much of a case for that, especially since Davis was essentially the captain of the defense last year

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I'm friends with Kyle Wilson and I still think he sucks.

Tell your friend Kyle that he would be better received by Jet fans if:

1.) He knew where the ball was ... EVER 

2.) He quits making Jack-ass gestures after ever play that infer he did something positive ... which he didn't.

 

As neither of those 2 things has a remote chance of occurring ... tell him his only chance to be even marginally accepted by the Jet fan base it to wear a sign that says  "I suck and I know it"

The humility factor in such an act should keep things from being thrown at him. 

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No one left money on the table to sign with the Jets. Let me try to explain the lowball tactic. 

 

A bunch of players (corners and pettigrew) heard what the Jets had to say and left without a deal.  They got better deals. 

 

the Jets' "lowball" offer was a low one compared to what they were supposed to get... some guys turned it down, and several didn't. those offers were maybe not what they were expecting but the highest ones available to each player who actually signed. 

 

in that sense the market is right and the players were wrong. When Eric Decker signed for 7 mil that's his value. His value never got to the 9 or 10 mil mark his agents were trying for... the market set his value at 7 million. The idea that he's worth more is imaginary.  

 

I don't think Idzik is a terrible GM if fact it's quite the opposite. Just trying to suss out his style. it's deliberate and a tough way to to negotiate and unlike Tanny he doesn't bid against himself. 

 

My main point is that Idziks style is to look for weak spots in the market. He's not paying retail. I don't think that changes when the team gets closer to a title or when they get more cap space. It's his style. the man used 12 draft picks this year that's deliberate. 

 

BTW the Jets can spend up to the floor (89%) and still be 15 mil below the cap. 

 

One way to look at it is if Geno Smith (or Tajh or whoever) becomes amazing, they would have to pay that guy Flacco money and take up 15-17% of the cap in one player. And that would be what the Jets were 'saving' the cap space for...  but on the other hand it's saving for an unlikely outcome.  This offseason the Jets seemed surprised that the cap was raised as high as it was...  overly conservative planning. 

 

It isn't a lowball.  Fans who think a player's value is much higher, based on pre-signing expectations, consider it a lowball.  But it isn't.

 

Also regarding the use of all 12 draft picks, they were apparently pretty active on the phones throughout the draft and nothing they were offered sounded as good to them as using their original pick(s).  In time that may prove wise, and it's impossible for none of those "what if's" to have panned out better.  Not unless we literally selected the 12 best players in the whole draft (lol). 

 

Saving for Geno to become a $15-20M/year guy may be an unlikely outcome.  But that's the going rate for top 15 QBs now.  Whether Smith becomes that person or not doesn't mean the Jets will never spend that much on a QB (wisely or otherwise).

 

But I don't think he's purely saving up for a heavy-hitter at QB. I think he's saving up for heavier hitters at any position and wants to maintain the flexibility to grab (or re-sign) someone when he wants it without having to extend & re-extend (mortgage the future) on less worthy, or unworthy, starters/role players.

 

Again, just because the space wasn't blown through in the first offseason he could doesn't mean we will come in $20-$40M under the cap every year. Not only is it a mathematical impossibility, but you're essentially talking about 1 year of free agency given the lack of flexibility the team had last season.  As I've said many times, I truly think he's just seeing what he's got (and what he's drafted) before he goes out and spends 2x-10x that per player (perhaps more) in free agency.  And that if our QB situation was a sure thing (or if he felt that it was a sure thing) that this strategy would be different; striking while the iron's hot and all that.

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Tell your friend Kyle that he would be better received by Jet fans if:

1.) He knew where the ball was ... EVER 

2.) He quits making Jack-ass gestures after ever play that infer he did something positive ... which he didn't.

 

As neither of those 2 things has a remote chance of occurring ... tell him his only chance to be even marginally accepted by the Jet fan base it to wear a sign that says  "I suck and I know it"

The humility factor in such an act should keep things from being thrown at him. 

yea i could, but he can give two shts about you and your opinion so I'm not gonna bother.

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yea i could, but he can give two shts about you and your opinion so I'm not gonna bother.

Are you still going to be his buddy when he's driving a UPS truck this time next year?

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Are you still going to be his buddy when he's driving a UPS truck this time next year?

Kyle Wilson gets a bad rap around here, IMHO. He doesn't make a lot of plays, that's certainly true, but he also doesn't give up a lot of plays. That, in itself, has value. I think the Jets are prepared to move on without him when his contract expires after this season, but in no way do I see him out of the league. He's potentially good for a comp pick in 2016, which is one of the reasons they won't really consider dumping him this year.

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Kyle Wilson gets a bad rap around here, IMHO. He doesn't make a lot of plays, that's certainly true, but he also doesn't give up a lot of plays. That, in itself, has value. I think the Jets are prepared to move on without him when his contract expires after this season, but in no way do I see him out of the league. He's potentially good for a comp pick in 2016, which is one of the reasons they won't really consider dumping him this year.

 

Kyle Wilson gets a bad rap around here, IMHO. He doesn't make a lot of plays, that's certainly true, but he also doesn't give up a lot of plays. That, in itself, has value. I think the Jets are prepared to move on without him when his contract expires after this season, but in no way do I see him out of the league. He's potentially good for a comp pick in 2016, which is one of the reasons they won't really consider dumping him this year.

I'd love nothing more than to see him get better, but I think we would have seen a glimpse of that already if it were ever going to happen. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he gives up a higher number of plays early this year as his style of play lends itself to just that and the law of averages will come into play. I'd much rather see snaps go to someone who's potentially going to be around than give them to him and we've got some new horses in the barn.

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