bitonti Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 There's plenty of professions with greater health risks than football players with far less pay, benefits, or guarantees. But even still, that's why I would 100% be behind the NFL seriously tweaking the injury clauses up to more greatly benefit the players. I have no problem with a player not getting screwed because they were hurt (on the field) and can no longer perform, or at least to the same level. The idea that they should receive large up-front payments while making absolutely no concessions on their end is absurd though. ok let me rephrase he's a world class athlete that also risks his brain, unlike the rest of us. Nobody put a gun to his head, and told him he had to be a professional football player. It was his choice, and he accepted the risks that come with it. yes and he earned his millions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 This is the best discussion about labor theory that I've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 The players (and Gato) essentially are. After all, the complaint that the current contract setup allows for a player to be cut but not leave whenever he sees fit suggests exactly that, and it ignores the reasons why that is the case. Is it possible that revisions could be made to end up shifting the way players can come and go in the NFL? Perhaps, but it would also involve some major concessions from the players that I doubt they'd ever make. If they would then so be it, but it would essentially mean tearing up the entire current CBA and starting from scratch. The only reason the signing bonus system is in place is because of the inherent inequity with the contracts not being guaranteed. They should tear the entire CBA up. It's a sham. Look at the draft, draft slot contracts and RFA system. These kids are locked up beyond the average NFL players career. That's the trouble for the union. It's such a young man's game that players need to grab what they can because they will not be around to reap the benefits of any changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 ok let me rephrase he's a world class athlete that also risks his brain, unlike the rest of us. yes and he earned his millions. I get what you're saying there, which is why I agree with there being more health-based clauses put into place to protect players. Having a seriously injured player whose contract is expiring still be screwed, while the completely healthy colossal bust keeps getting paid millions to suck ass for years to come isn't exactly the solution to that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 ok let me rephrase he's a world class athlete that also risks his brain, unlike the rest of us. yes and he earned his millions. So you're trying to tell me I couldn't be Roger Clemens or Barry Bonds or DeMarcus Ware and so on no matter how many steroids I took? What if I was like...reeeeeaaaaalllly good in HS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 It must suck getting paid like a King to play a childs sport. Tough life, man. Tough life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 he also risks his brain, unlike the rest of us. Well, I'm in territory sales and live in Florida where drivers are terrible, driving up I-95 which is a death trap, all day long, so I risk my life daily. He risks his life 16 days out of the year...maybe a few more if he's lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 I get what you're saying there, which is why I agree with there being more health-based clauses put into place to protect players. Having a seriously injured player whose contract is expiring still be screwed, while the completely healthy colossal bust keeps getting paid millions to suck ass for years to come isn't exactly the solution to that problem. I'm less willing to pretend the NFL bending players over the table and raping them over concussions didn't happen than you are. Players went that route and got manhandled. Everyone knows it - nobody cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Maybe if you didn't delete out 75% of a post, you would be able to understand why this entire concept was explained to you, as simply as possible. But then again, it's kind of fun watching you attempt to mock the intelligence of others while showing an ongoing failure of basic reading comprehension. It's the staple of every Gato argument. Other people coming across as thoughtful and intelligent sure is an insecurity trigger for you. The "I'll take pot-shots at you acting intelligent, so I seem more intelligent" posturing is the staple of every BG argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Well, I'm in territory sales and live in Florida where drivers are terrible, driving up I-95 which is a death trap, all day long, so I risk my life daily. He risks his life 16 days out of the year...maybe a few more if he's lucky. I get out of bed every day, so I risk my life even more than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 Maybe if you didn't delete out 75% of a post, you would be able to understand why this entire concept was explained to you, as simply as possible. But then again, it's kind of fun watching you attempt to mock the intelligence of others while showing an ongoing failure of basic reading comprehension. It's the staple of every Gato argument. Me not including the rest of your post =/= me not comprehending your post. You're just not saying anything worthwhile - I know it is possible for people to lose their jobs for any number of reasons. Companies can't just tear up contracts willy nilly like the NFL is allowed to do. Perhaps I'm wrong and they can. :shrugs: At the very minimum they should report contract numbers differently, preferably in a far more honest manner. "Darrelle Revis signs 1/16 million dollar deal with the Bucs" would have been infinitely more honest than "Darrelle Revis signs 6/96 deal" for instance...instead we have people insisting that he should be extremely happy that the deal allowed for him to get 2/32. It's seriously something that makes me laugh out loud - it's truly absurd and we let it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 Other people coming across as thoughtful and intelligent sure is an insecurity trigger for you. The "I'll take pot-shots at you acting intelligent, so I seem more intelligent" posturing is the staple of every BG argument. This is true. I'm not saying stupid sh*t here (well...not completely pointless stupid sh*t) - we're just very well conditioned to not take it seriously. It's completely understandable to me. This is not something that could happen in a day with some dummy ranting about it once in a while on a NY Jets message board - it's taken over 200 years to fatten up, dumb down, and suck the fight out of the American people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I get out of bed every day, so I risk my life even more than you. I don't believe this. Not even slightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 It must suck getting paid like a King to play a childs sport. Tough life, man. Tough life. Most NFL players don't get paid like a king. I'll assume you are trolling, because as big a fan of football as you pretend to be, you've got to be at least somewhat aware of the average career span, earnings, and post-NFL health and financial issues players face. Most of these guys play a couple years, are lucky to break into the millions and have to make it last their lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 We'd need to eliminate revenue sharing too then. Free for all. I don't know, baseball's system seems to be working to create a more level playing field. More teams have won the World Series in the last 30 years than have won Super Bowls or NBA titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I don't believe this. Not even slightly. I can back it up with percentages. On 87.3% of Wednesdays, for example, I get out of bed 93.4% of the time. In between my bedroom and my bathroom I encounter an average of 17 obstacles, 68% of which could be argued as lethal in 37.9% of courts in 47% of the states in the United States. Once I am in the bathroom I am 117.4% at risk. Especially if I've eaten any dairy that is over 2% fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I don't know, baseball's system seems to be working to create a more level playing field. More teams have won the World Series in the last 30 years than have won Super Bowls or NBA titles. That isn't a metric for their being a "level playing field". IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 This is the best discussion about labor theory that I've ever seen. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 That isn't a metric for their being a "level playing field". IMO But isn't it the most important one? The whole idea of parity is that any team can win at any time. That seems more plausible if a sport is generating more different champions IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 I think it's funny to call it a child's game. I'm sure the only thing holding children back from dominating professional sports leagues is the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I just see that employees are beaten down everywhere, and the worst part is that they are generally OK with it. The NFL (and sports in general) offers a very real, relatively transparent microcosm. OTOH, I get why I should not think this way. It's not practical. When in Rome... Not being homeless is an attractive option to many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Other people coming across as thoughtful and intelligent sure is an insecurity trigger for you. The "I'll take pot-shots at you acting intelligent, so I seem more intelligent" posturing is the staple of every BG argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 Not being homeless is an attractive option to many. Pretty much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 and have to make it last their lifetime. Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 20,000 posts! Now 20,001! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 But isn't it the most important one? The whole idea of parity is that any team can win at any time. That seems more plausible if a sport is generating more different champions IMO. I think the minor league system in baseball supports that though. Football probably needs that...it's just the sport is so unique it's tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Well, I'm in territory sales and live in Florida where drivers are terrible, driving up I-95 which is a death trap, all day long, so I risk my life daily. He risks his life 16 days out of the year...maybe a few more if he's lucky. This. That stretch of 95 between West Palm and Miami is terrifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I think it's funny to call it a child's game. I'm sure the only thing holding children back from dominating professional sports leagues is the law. Yeah. Another crooked rule. Poor kids have to risk their careers making millions for the NCAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Here's a question I don't know the answer to: Who makes more per year, players (salaries, bonuses) or the owner (profit)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sourceworx Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 ok let me rephrase he's a world class athlete that also risks his brain, unlike the rest of us. yes and he earned his millions. He certainly has. And I don't knock him for that one bit. But I also don't pity him for risking his brain, or for having to uproot his family to make that money. People sacrifice much worse for a hell of a lot less compensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 Yeah. Another crooked rule. Poor kids have to risk their careers making millions for the NCAA. Whoa. Nice. I'd like to see eligibility rules changed. I bet Carlos Rodon wishes he could have left school after his freshman year. Clowney definitely wanted to leave as a sophomore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Other people coming across as thoughtful and intelligent sure is an insecurity trigger for you. The "I'll take pot-shots at you acting intelligent, so I seem more intelligent" posturing is the staple of every BG argument. The Trolling Ape is trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Me not including the rest of your post =/= me not comprehending your post. You're just not saying anything worthwhile - I know it is possible for people to lose their jobs for any number of reasons. Companies can't just tear up contracts willy nilly like the NFL is allowed to do. Perhaps I'm wrong and they can. :shrugs: At the very minimum they should report contract numbers differently, preferably in a far more honest manner. "Darrelle Revis signs 1/16 million dollar deal with the Bucs" would have been infinitely more honest than "Darrelle Revis signs 6/96 deal" for instance...instead we have people insisting that he should be extremely happy that the deal allowed for him to get 2/32. It's seriously something that makes me laugh out loud - it's truly absurd and we let it happen. Except you made comments that were reliant on me not having made points that I already had, which is the only reason I brought it up... no point in arguing in circles about that now though. Regardless, I think there's a pretty substantial difference between thinking there needs to be changes to the entire way contracts are handled, and pretending like this entire structure is screwing over the players at every turn, with no benefits to them. Try as you might to paint them as such, they're not martyrs here. The players agreed to the power that's given to the teams in order to get other things that they wanted in return (i.e., bonuses). The problem is that when we hear the players complaining, it's about everything else they want to have given, without any concessions on their part. The world simply does not work that way. If you think that the bonus structures in NFL contracts is not enough to offset the benefits provided to the teams, I could see that logic, but you can't expect for those still to exist if the teams are receiving no benefits in return for them paying out large sums of money in advance. Like I said in an earlier post, you're essentially talking about tearing up the entire CBA and starting from scratch. That's fine, but it means going back to the negotiating table and both sides making concessions to come to an agreement. To gleefully take a big sum of up-front cash that was given to you mostly due to the power that is given to the teams in NFL contracts, then crying fowl the moment those same concessions come back to bite you in the ass, is awfully disingenuous. That is my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Me not including the rest of your post =/= me not comprehending your post. You're just not saying anything worthwhile - I know it is possible for people to lose their jobs for any number of reasons. Companies can't just tear up contracts willy nilly like the NFL is allowed to do. Perhaps I'm wrong and they can. :shrugs: At the very minimum they should report contract numbers differently, preferably in a far more honest manner. "Darrelle Revis signs 1/16 million dollar deal with the Bucs" would have been infinitely more honest than "Darrelle Revis signs 6/96 deal" for instance...instead we have people insisting that he should be extremely happy that the deal allowed for him to get 2/32. It's seriously something that makes me laugh out loud - it's truly absurd and we let it happen. Oh, and to be clear, since I forgot to mention this, I don't disagree that the entire concept of things like the Revis dealing being 6/96 was nonsense. But that has just as much to do with the agents as anyone else. Those guys are all about doing everything in their power to inflate the numbers just to make themselves look better, even if it's complete BS. But it's not like Revis didn't know what the deal he was signing really was, everyone knew what it was as soon as the details came out (i.e., no guarantees). Of course if contracts were fully guaranteed I think we all know there's no way in the world the contract he got last year would have looked anything like 6/96. In truth the agents probably prefer this current structure, as I'm pretty sure they make more of their money off of new deals, not their clients staying on old deals. That probably doesn't help matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 But isn't it the most important one? The whole idea of parity is that any team can win at any time. That seems more plausible if a sport is generating more different champions IMO. Until the NFL can somehow address the whole QB-centric nature of the league though, it's a tough comparison to make to any other sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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