Vick: Ring with Jets would seal legacy (Even if with Geno under center)

[T0mShane]

Needs more Orwell misquotes.

I like you, Doug. We're close friends.

[Jetscode1]

Truth be told, he did. There's probably no one alive on the planet today that actually seen Jim Thorpe play, and for as good as Randall Cunningham was, it wasn't like he showed up in the 4th qtr for the eagles. Just ask the Giants. 

 

Michael Vick was the first of the future "Colin Kaepernick" type QB's. It wasn't the stats that made him revolutionary, it was how defensive coordinators admitted how they didnt now how to game plan for Vick during his early years. To say that you honestly didnt know how to game plan for one man is revolutionary. Vick caused fits when he entered the league. 

 

compares to Bobby Douglas...not sure he revolutionized   anything...

[Villain The Foe]

Mike Vick much fast so he gain yards. Football still such same.

[Villain The Foe]

compares to Bobby Douglas...not sure he revolutionized   anything...

I compare to Billy Dee Williams but I dont drive spaceships and drink Colt45. 

 

Wait, where am I going with this??? Sorry bro, never mind lol. 

[roscoeword]

Never saw Thorpe - but I saw Bobby Douglas, that strapping lefty running qb for the bears. He would have revolutionized the position of qb if he wasn't so terrible.

[Go Jets77]

He's easily the most overrated player in the history of the game. He was fast. Congrats. He was an awful QB that had ONE, count it ONE very good year. 

 

Awful accuracy

 

Terrible pocket awareness

 

Couldn't read a defense to save his life and couldn't go through his progressions

 

Injury prone

 

He didn't nothing for this game

[Larz]

not many people still alive saw thorpe

 

Thorpe began his athletic career at Carlisle in 1907 when he walked past the track and beat all the school's high jumpers with an impromptu 5-ft 9-in jump still in street clothes.^[13] His earliest recorded track and field results come from 1907. He also competed in football, baseball, lacrosse and even ballroom dancing, winning the 1912 intercollegiate ballroom dancing championship.^[14]

Pop Warner was hesitant to allow Thorpe, his best track and field athlete, to compete in a physical game such as football.^[15] Thorpe, however, convinced Warner to let him try some rushing plays in practice against the school team's defense; Warner assumed he would be tackled easily and give up the idea.^[15] Thorpe "ran around past and through them not once, but twice".^[15] He then walked over to Warner and said "Nobody is going to tackle Jim," while flipping him the ball.^[15]

Thorpe gained nationwide attention for the first time in 1911.^[16] As a running back, defensive back, placekicker and punter, Thorpe scored all his team's points—four field goals and a touchdown—in an 18–15 upset of Harvard, a top ranked team in those early days of the National Collegiate Athletic Association.^[15] His team finished the season 11–1. In 1912 Carlisle won the national collegiate championship largely as a result of his efforts – he scored 25 touchdowns and 198 points during the season.^[12]

Carlisle's 1912 record included a 27–6 victory over Army.^[6] In that game, Thorpe's 92-yard touchdown was nullified by a teammate's penalty, but on the next play Thorpe rushed for a 97-yard touchdown.^[17] Future President Dwight Eisenhower, who played against him that season, recalled of Thorpe in a 1961 speech:

"Here and there, there are some people who are supremely endowed. My memory goes back to Jim Thorpe. He never practiced in his life, and he could do anything better than any other football player I ever saw."

[

12

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He was awarded All-American honors in both 1911 and 1912.^[6]

Football was - and would remain - Thorpe's favorite sport.^[18] He competed only sporadically in track and field, even though this turned out to be the sport in which he gained his greatest fame.

In the spring of 1912, he started training for the Olympics. He had confined his efforts to jumps, hurdles and shot-puts, but now added pole vaulting, javelin, discus, hammer and 56 lb weight. In the Olympic trials held at Celtic Park in New York, his all-round ability stood out in all these events and so he riveted a claim to a place on the team that went to Sweden.

[

6

]

[Larz]

Olympic career

Thorpe at the 1912 Summer Olympics

For the 1912 Summer Olympics in Stockholm, Sweden, two new multi-event disciplines were included, the pentathlon and the decathlon. A pentathlon, based on the ancient Greek event, had been introduced at the 1906 Summer Olympics. The 1912 version consisted of the long jump, javelin throw, 200-meter dash, discus throw and 1500-meter run.

The decathlon was a relatively new event in modern athletics, although it had been part of American track meets since the 1880s and a version had been featured on the program of the 1904 St. Louis Olympics. The events of the new decathlon differed slightly from the American version. Both seemed appropriate for Thorpe, who was so versatile that he served as Carlisle's one-man team in several track meets.^[6] He could run the 100-yard dash in 10 seconds flat, the 220 in 21.8 seconds, the 440 in 51.8 seconds, the 880 in 1:57, the mile in 4:35, the 120-yard high hurdles in 15 seconds, and the 220-yard low hurdles in 24 seconds.^[6] He could long jump 23 ft 6 in and high-jump 6 ft 5 in.^[6] He could pole vault 11 feet, put the shot 47 ft 9 in, throw the javelin 163 feet, and throw the discus 136 feet.^[6]

Thorpe entered the U.S. Olympic trials for both the pentathlon and the decathlon. He won the awards easily, winning three events, and was named to the pentathlon team, which also included future International Olympic Committee president Avery Brundage. There were only a few candidates for the decathlon team, however, and the trials were cancelled.

His schedule in the Olympics was busy. Along with the decathlon and pentathlon, he competed in the long jump and high jump. The first competition was the pentathlon. He won four of the five events and placed third in the javelin, an event he had not competed in before 1912. Although the pentathlon was primarily decided on place points, points were also earned for the marks achieved in the individual events. He won the gold medal. That same day, he qualified for the high jump final in which he placed fourth, and also took seventh place in the long jump. Even more remarkably, because someone had stolen his shoes just before he was due to compete, he found some discarded ones in a rubbish bin and won his medals wearing them.^[19] He is shown in the 1912 photo wearing two different shoes and extra socks because one shoe was too big.

 

Olympic medal record

Men's athletics Representing the United States Gold 1912 Stockholm Pentathlon Gold 1912 Stockholm Decathlon

 

Thorpe's final event was the decathlon, his first — and as it turned out, his only — Olympic decathlon. Strong competition from local favorite Hugo Wieslander was expected. Thorpe, however, easily defeated Wieslander by more than 700 points. He placed in the top four in all ten events, and his Olympic record of 8,413 points would stand for nearly two decades.^[13] Overall, Thorpe won eight of the 15 individual events comprising the pentathlon and decathlon.

As was the custom of the day, the medals were presented to the athletes during the closing ceremonies of the games. Along with the two gold medals, Thorpe also received two challenge prizes, which were donated by King Gustav V of Sweden for the decathlon and Czar Nicholas II of Russia for the pentathlon. Several sources recount that, when awarding Thorpe his prize, King Gustav said, "You, sir, are the greatest athlete in the world", to which Thorpe replied, "Thanks, King".^[20][21] Contemporary sources from 1912 are lacking, suggesting that the story was apocryphal, however.^[22] The anecdote appeared in newspapers as early as 1948, 36 years after his appearance in the Olympics,^[23] and in books as early as 1952.^[24]

Thorpe's successes had not gone unnoticed at home, and he was honored with a ticker-tape parade on Broadway.^[20] He remembered later, "I heard people yelling my name, and I couldn't realize how one fellow could have so many friends."^[20]

Apart from his track and field appearances, he also played in one of two exhibition baseball games at the 1912 Olympics, which featured two teams composed of U.S. track and field athletes. It was not Thorpe's first try at baseball, as the public would soon learn.

[Larz]

All-Around Champion

After his victories at the Olympic Games in Sweden, on September 2, 1912, he returned to Celtic Park, the home of the Irish American Athletic Club, in Queens, New York (where he had qualified four months earlier for the Olympic Games), to compete in the Amateur Athletic Union's All-Around Championship. Competing against Bruno Brodd of the Irish American Athletic Club and J. Bredemus of Princeton University, he won seven of the ten events contested and came in second in the remaining three. With a total point score of 7,476 points, Thorpe broke the previous record of 7,385 points set in 1909, (also set at Celtic Park), by Martin Sheridan, the champion athlete of the Irish American Athletic Club.^[25] Sheridan, a five-time Olympic gold medalist, was present to watch his record broken, approached Thorpe after the event and shook his hand saying, "Jim, my boy, you're a great man. I never expect to look upon a finer athlete." He told a reporter from The New York World, "Thorpe is the greatest athlete that ever lived. He has me beaten fifty ways. Even when I was in my prime, I could not do what he did today."^[26]

[Larz]

Baseball free agent

Because the minor league team that last held Jim Thorpe's contract had disbanded in 1910, he found himself in the rare position of being a sought after free agent at the major league level during the era of the reserve clause, and thus had a choice of baseball teams for which to play.^[32] In January 1913, he turned down a starting position with the American League cellar-dwelling St. Louis Browns, choosing instead to join the 1912 National League champion New York Giants, who, with Thorpe playing in 19 of their 151 games, would repeat as the 1913 National League champions. Immediately following the Giants' October loss in the 1913 World Series, Thorpe and the Giants joined the Chicago White Sox for a world tour.^[33] Barnstorming across the United States and then around the world, Thorpe was the celebrity of the tour.^[34] Thorpe's presence increased the publicity, attendance and gate receipts for the tour. He met with Pope Pius X and Abbas II Hilmi Bey (the last Khedive of Egypt), and played before 20,000 people in London including King George V. While in Rome, he was filmed wrestling with another baseball player on the floor of the Colosseum (although no known copy of that film has survived).

[Larz]

Baseball, football, and basketball

Thorpe signed with the New York Giants baseball club in 1913 and played sporadically with them as an outfielder for three seasons. After playing in the minor leagues with the Milwaukee Brewers in 1916,^[35] he returned to the Giants in 1917 but was sold to the Cincinnati Reds early in the season. In the "double no-hitter" between Fred Toney of the Reds and Hippo Vaughn of the Chicago Cubs, Thorpe drove in the winning run in the 10th inning.^[36] Late in the season, he was sold back to the Giants. Again, he played sporadically for them in 1918 before being traded to the Boston Braves on May 21, 1919, for Pat Ragan. In his career, he amassed 91 runs scored, 82 runs batted in and a .252 batting average over 289 games.^[37] He continued to play minor league baseball until 1922.

But Thorpe had not abandoned football either. He first played professional football in 1913 as a member of the Indiana-based Pine Village Pros, a team that had a several-season winning streak against local teams during the 1910s.^[38] He then signed with the Canton Bulldogs in 1915. They paid him $250 ($5,828 today) a game, a tremendous wage at the time.^[39] Before signing him Canton was averaging 1,200 fans a game, but 8,000 showed up for his debut against the Massillon Tigers.^[39] The team won titles in 1916, 1917, and 1919. He reportedly ended the 1919 championship game by kicking a wind-assisted 95-yard punt from his team's own 5-yard line, effectively putting the game out of reach.^[39] In 1920, the Bulldogs were one of 14 teams to form the American Professional Football Association (APFA), which would become the National Football League (NFL) two years later. Thorpe was nominally the APFA's first president, but spent most of the year playing for Canton and a year later was replaced as president by Joseph Carr.^[40] He continued to play for Canton, coaching the team as well. Between 1921 and 1923, he helped organize and played for the Oorang Indians (LaRue, Ohio), an all-Native American team.^[41] Although the team's record was 3–6 in 1922,^[42] and 1–10 in 1923,^[43] he played well and was selected for the Green Bay Press-Gazette's first All-NFL team in 1923, which would later be formally recognized by the NFL as the league's official All-NFL team in 1931).^[44]

Thorpe never played for an NFL championship team. He retired from professional football at age 41,^[9] having played 52 NFL games for six teams from 1920 to 1928.^[45]

World Famous Indians letterhead.

Until 2005, most of Thorpe's biographers were unaware of his basketball career^[46] until a ticket discovered in an old book that year documented his career in basketball. By 1926, he was the main feature of the "World Famous Indians" of LaRue which sponsored traveling football, baseball and basketball teams. "Jim Thorpe and His World-Famous Indians" barnstormed for at least two years (1927–28) in parts of New York and Pennsylvania as well as Marion, Ohio. Although pictures of Thorpe in his WFI basketball uniform were printed on postcards and published in newspapers, this period of his life was not well documented.

[Larz]

Honors

Thorpe as backfield coach for Indiana, 1915

Thorpe's monument, featuring the quote from Gustav V ("You, sir, are the greatest athlete in the world."), still stands near the town named for him, Jim Thorpe, Pennsylvania.^[11] The grave rests on mounds of soil from Thorpe's native Oklahoma and from the stadium in which he won his Olympic medals.^[64]

Thorpe's achievements received great acclaim from sports journalists, both during his lifetime and since his death. In 1950 an Associated Press poll of almost 400 sportswriters and broadcasters voted Thorpe the "greatest athlete" of the first half of the 20th century.^[65] That same year, the Associated Press named Thorpe the "greatest American football player" of the first half of the century.^[66] In 1999, the Associated Press placed him third on its list of the top athletes of the century, following Babe Ruth and Michael Jordan.^[67]ESPN ranked Thorpe seventh on their list of best North American athletes of the century.^[68]

Thorpe was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1963, one of seventeen players in the charter class.^[69] Thorpe is memorialized in the Pro Football Hall of Fame rotunda with a larger-than-life statue. He was also inducted into halls of fame for college football, American Olympic teams, and the national track and field competition.^[12]

President Richard Nixon, as authorized by U.S. Senate Joint Resolution 73, proclaimed Monday, April 16, 1973, as "Jim Thorpe Day" to promote the nationwide recognition of Thorpe.^[70] In 1986, the Jim Thorpe Association established an award with Thorpe's name. The Jim Thorpe Award is given annually to the best defensive back in college football. The annual Thorpe Cup athletics meeting is named in his honor.^[71] The United States Postal Service issued a 32¢ stamp on 3 February 1998 as part of the Celebrate the Century stamp sheet series

[Larz]

In a poll of sports fans conducted by ABC Sports, Thorpe was voted the Greatest Athlete of the Twentieth Century out of 15 other athletes including Muhammad Ali, Babe Ruth, Jesse Owens, Wayne Gretzky, Jack Nicklaus, and Michael Jordan.^[3][4]

[Larz]

told you I was a thorpe geek, lol

[Villain The Foe]

He's easily the most overrated player in the history of the game. He was fast. Congrats. He was an awful QB that had ONE, count it ONE very good year. 

 

Awful accuracy

 

Terrible pocket awareness

 

Couldn't read a defense to save his life and couldn't go through his progressions

 

Injury prone

 

He didn't nothing for this game

He's had much more than just one good year. He's had 3 good years with Atlanta. 

[Villain The Foe]

In a poll of sports fans conducted by ABC Sports, Thorpe was voted the Greatest Athlete of the Twentieth Century out of 15 other athletes including Muhammad Ali, Babe Ruth, Jesse Owens, Wayne Gretzky, Jack Nicklaus, and Michael Jordan.^[3][4]

Can you pull up his youtube highlights for me? lol.

[Go Jets77]

He's had much more than just one good year. He's had 3 good years with Atlanta. 

No.

 

No he didn't. It'spbvious your a fanboy so I don't know why I'm bothering. 

 

But he's been an awful QB his entire career. He never completed more than 56% of his passes and never threw for more than 2500 yards and 20 TD's. He gave you a few highlights but was a bad QB. 

[Thor99]

Honors

Thorpe as backfield coach for Indiana, 1915

Thorpe's monument, featuring the quote from Gustav V ("You, sir, are the greatest athlete in the world."), still stands near the town named for him, Jim Thorpe, Pennsylvania.^[11] The grave rests on mounds of soil from Thorpe's native Oklahoma and from the stadium in which he won his Olympic medals.^[64]

Thorpe's achievements received great acclaim from sports journalists, both during his lifetime and since his death. In 1950 an Associated Press poll of almost 400 sportswriters and broadcasters voted Thorpe the "greatest athlete" of the first half of the 20th century.^[65] That same year, the Associated Press named Thorpe the "greatest American football player" of the first half of the century.^[66] In 1999, the Associated Press placed him third on its list of the top athletes of the century, following Babe Ruth and Michael Jordan.^[67]ESPN ranked Thorpe seventh on their list of best North American athletes of the century.^[68]

Thorpe was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1963, one of seventeen players in the charter class.^[69] Thorpe is memorialized in the Pro Football Hall of Fame rotunda with a larger-than-life statue. He was also inducted into halls of fame for college football, American Olympic teams, and the national track and field competition.^[12]

President Richard Nixon, as authorized by U.S. Senate Joint Resolution 73, proclaimed Monday, April 16, 1973, as "Jim Thorpe Day" to promote the nationwide recognition of Thorpe.^[70] In 1986, the Jim Thorpe Association established an award with Thorpe's name. The Jim Thorpe Award is given annually to the best defensive back in college football. The annual Thorpe Cup athletics meeting is named in his honor.^[71] The United States Postal Service issued a 32¢ stamp on 3 February 1998 as part of the Celebrate the Century stamp sheet series

Looks like Rondo Hatten.

[RutgersJetFan]

Looks like Rondo Hatten.

 

I think that's the one time that Dredd actually did take his helmet off.

 

[pdxgreen]

The guy gave women herpies and under the name Ron Mexico.  Certainly, there has to be something

groundbreaking there.  Geno, don't do like Michael does.  Don't give women herpies now.

[pedro55]

He's easily the most overrated player in the history of the game. He was fast. Congrats. He was an awful QB that had ONE, count it ONE very good year. 

 

Awful accuracy

 

Terrible pocket awareness

 

Couldn't read a defense to save his life and couldn't go through his progressions

 

Injury prone

 

He didn't nothing for this game

 

  This is what I don't understand.  He revolutionized the game and Coordinators worried about game planning for a QB who pretty much played half a season every year.  Anybody that ever watched Atlanta would know he sucked as a QB.  He would have open receivers and come nowhere close to hitting them.  He would run first and never care about passing.  He also would run first and wind up hurt.    

 

  Vick was always Hype.   Maybe he would have become a great QB if he put everything together over the years, but his Prime years were spent out of the NFL. So by the time he could have maybe put it all together, he wasn't playing.    It would be like Kapernick playing a couple more years and then going off to prison instead of playing the prime years of his career.     That's not revolutionizing the game, that's a young kid who screwed up, did bad things,  and never reached his potential in the game.   Because nobody in their right mind could say Vick was actually a good QB.  He had one great year, and most of the rest of his career he was a guy who could run, but sucked when it came to actually needing to be a QB.

 

  I also don't get the "ring" comment and even if he was on the bench.  Why say it ?  It's PR.   Who would ever say winning a ring while rinding the bench seals your legacy?   That makes no sense at all.    Great for the team, but does nothing for your legacy if you really had nothing to do with it.  I mean Drew Bledsoe won a Ring back in 2001 from the bench. At least he can say he helped them win the Championship game.  But really,  why would anybody claim "your legacy" changed because of watching from the bench?

[Thor99]

I think that's the one time that Dredd actually did take his helmet off.

 

Is that the one where the crims changed their faces to look like the Three Stooges? I forgot how much I love that book.

Also, if there is one person on this board who knew who Rondo Hatten was, I knew it would be you.

[Integrity28]

http://sportslistoftheday.com/2011/12/11/sports-list-of-the-day-3/

cliff battles revolutionized the position, truth be told

year/career rushing yards/career rushing TD's

1. Michael Vick 2001 5,174 32

2. Randall Cunningham 1985 4,928 35

3. Steve Young 1985 4,239 43

4. Fran Tarkenton 1961 3,674 32

5. Steve McNair 1995 3,590 37

6. Cliff Battles 1937 3,511 23

7. Donovan McNabb 1999 3,459 29

8. John Elway 1983 3,407 33

9. Tobin Rote 1950 3,128 37

10. Spec Sanders 1946 2,900 33

11. Kordell Stewart 1995 2,874 38

The forward pass revolutionized the position. A QB that runs instead is not revolutionary, it's basically calling on the past to hide the inability to throw.

[T0mShane]

Also, if there is one person on this board who knew who Rondo Hatten was, I knew it would be you.

Gay

[slats]

aight. I'll live with that. When I look back at his ATL years and I hear how coordinators confirmed that they displayed serious concern when it came to playing the falcons because of the impending embarrassment that Vick could impose on their defense...I think the coaches at that time would say that there was something different about this kid, something that could revolutionize the game. He had that something that would cause other coaches around the league to look for it, so they would look at a dual threat kid from Nevada with a funny last name (Kaepernick) differently, or a former 6'5 Tight End that was converted into a QB (Logan Thomas) with a rocket arm (though inconsistent) and see that with some proper coaching his potential is limitless. Look at a guy from west Virginia that had the traits (Geno Smith). 

 

Michael Vick's ability impacted the game in a revolutionary way because the league responded. I see the result of it today.

Yeah, no.

Vick is/was a unique player with his speed at the position, but there's been no revolution. It's not like fast kids are trying to play QB instead of WR or CB because Michael Vick. Teams aren't taking chances on guys like Kaepernick or Geno because Michael Vick, either, they're taking those chances because the number of great pocket passers is far less than the number of NFL franchises - so teams have to be creative. And they're taking these guys with second and third rounders, not first overall picks. Andrew Luck was the best QB prospect since Peyton, but if Vick had truly engineered a revolution Johnny Manzeil would've held that honor. But when his draft rolled around, the guy with the potential to be a great pocket passer went early, and the scrambler went in the 20s.

[Thor99]

Gay

So judgmental.

[Sperm Edwards]

"A lot of things happened to me but that's in the past now" is my personal favorite, particularly when the event happened three days earlier.

 

Or the way it's framed, like things just happened to happen to him, like someone who unluckily was in the wrong place at the wrong time.  The only thing unlucky with his past was that he got caught. 

[T0mShane]

Or the way it's framed, like things just happened to happen to him, like someone who unluckily was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The only thing unlucky with his past was that he got caught.

And then the inevitable Blaming Of The Haters

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

told you I was a thorpe geek, lol

I can copy/paste a bunch of Wikipedia word sh*t about fusion and it doesn't make me a nuclear physics geek.

[dbatesman]

I can copy/paste a bunch of Wikipedia word sh*t about fusion and it doesn't make me a nuclear physics geek.

Around here, I think just using the word "fusion" would suffice.

[T0mShane]

So glad we can finally rap about nuclear fusion without fear of anti-intellectual reproach here.

[Thor99]

So glad we can finally rap about nuclear fusion without fear of anti-intellectual reproach here.

Going to a SUNY school for seven years doesn't make you an intellectual.

[Bugg]

Or the way it's framed, like things just happened to happen to him, like someone who unluckily was in the wrong place at the wrong time.  The only thing unlucky with his past was that he got caught.

We do root for laundry. Eric Barton, for example, was a very bad guy at Maryland that was indulged and coddled because he was seen as potentially an NFL linebacker. I could never root for him. I hope he now lives in a fridge box under a highway overpass.That would be too good for him.

Happened to Vick? Some PR douchebag fed him that idea. Why the passive verb? Did the dogs knock on his door and ask for him to do those things? The dogs made him do it. There was nothing voluntary on Vick's part, it was some kind of 3rd party out of body experience.

Vick is a total piece of s___. Would rather watch Smith go 0-16 than see Vick ever get on the sideline.

[RutgersJetFan]

Is that the one where the crims changed their faces to look like the Three Stooges? I forgot how much I love that book.

Also, if there is one person on this board who knew who Rondo Hatten was, I knew it would be you.

Homages to him pop up in the most random places. I know The Rocketeer is a bit campy but I always enjoyed the stuff like having the Hatten lookalike in there.

[RutgersJetFan]

So glad we can finally rap about nuclear fusion without fear of anti-intellectual reproach here.

GZA raps about nuclear fusion. And you are no GZA sir.