Now that Jimmy Graham is locked-in as a TE with the Franchise Tag....

[Villain The Foe]

Seriously if I was Jimmy, anytime the Saints want me to line up in the slot or outside I'd tell them "Im not a WR". 

 

What do you guys think of the situation? I dont like the fact that they used his social network page as some sort of evidence to confirm something that he was obviously considered. Him being named TE wasn't the point. The point is that on 2/3rd's of the plays he's being used as a WR, something that a title on a twitter page can't show but game film certainly can. 

 

 

Yet again, this is why I never ever get upset at Revis for him being such a shrewd business man. Granted, it does seem pretty cold and standoffish to the fan, but this business is a shrewd one and Jimmy is basically getting used as a WR but being capped by the fact that his position officially is TE. 

 

 

[Greenseed4]

News flash. Jimmy Graham is a TE.

And it's not because his social media says so. It's because he's a TE.

[Arsis]

There is no wr that spends 40% of snaps at tight end. That argument falls flat.

[AFJF]

Revis situation was completely different. I agree 100% on JG. Every time he's supposed to line up anywhere else he should tell em to eff off.

[GKnight83]

Honestly folks all you had to do was listen to the real NFL insiders like Herman Edwards and Bill Polian were saying to know where this was going to land.  The media just pumped this up because they have nothing more to fill the 24/7 multiple station crap they continue to pump.  I mean seriously, if a slot receiver is going to get $6 - $8MM/yr what did you think was going to happen to Graham?

[Bleedin Green]

Oh for ****'s sake, can we stop having to see every single contract-related story used as some sort of justification for Revis' completely unrelated scumbag behavior? The a$$hole is a Patriot now for crying out loud... **** him.

As far as Graham goes, I could at least see the argument being made, but you knew this was how it was going to end up. There's still the chance they could work out a long-term deal soon, and then both sides should be happy.

[Jetsfan80]

 There's still the chance they could work out a long-term deal soon

 

Decker, Graham, Kerley, Amaro sounds great if they don't.

[Integrity28]

Seriously if I was Jimmy, anytime the Saints want me to line up in the slot or outside I'd tell them "Im not a WR". 

 

What do you guys think of the situation? I dont like the fact that they used his social network page as some sort of evidence to confirm something that he was obviously considered. Him being named TE wasn't the point. The point is that on 2/3rd's of the plays he's being used as a WR, something that a title on a twitter page can't show but game film certainly can. 

 

 

Yet again, this is why I never ever get upset at Revis for him being such a shrewd business man. Granted, it does seem pretty cold and standoffish to the fan, but this business is a shrewd one and Jimmy is basically getting used as a WR but being capped by the fact that his position officially is TE. 

 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

 

If Jimmy refuses to line up outside, he becomes a "that's not my job" employee, which ultimately isn't a team player, which ultimately diminishes his stats and his value to the franchise, which ultimately hurts his earnings potential even more than this ruling does.

 

I think it sucks, but it maybe he can make the money up in his longterm contract with them. The best thing he could do at this point, honestly, is play this year and get paid by another team willing to give him TE/WR money. 

[Integrity28]

As for how this relates to Revis? I don't care.

[jgb]

wonder if front offices will tell HCs to keep track of percentage of plays TEs play outside going forward to stay under some magic threshold. this ruling could affect the play on the field which is too bad.

[jgb]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

 

If Jimmy refuses to line up outside, he becomes a "that's not my job" employee, which ultimately isn't a team player, which ultimately diminishes his stats and his value to the franchise, which ultimately hurts his earnings potential even more than this ruling does.

 

I think it sucks, but it maybe he can make the money up in his longterm contract with them. The best thing he could do at this point, honestly, is play this year and get paid by another team willing to give him TE/WR money.

yeah he can still sign a longterm deal, for whatever amount the two sides agree to. He'd get top 5 WR money on the free agency market so this ruling has more to do with who has the leverage in negotiating terms of a longterm deal--advantage: Saints.

[RutgersJetFan]

What do I think? I think I don't care nearly as much about this subject as ESPN wants me to care.

[Il Mostro]

When does Jets' relevant news stat up again?  Its been beyond brutal the past few months. 

[Villain The Foe]

Revis situation was completely different. I agree 100% on JG. Every time he's supposed to line up anywhere else he should tell em to eff off.

I know it wasn't the same, the comment was more on his business acumen. Revis made decisions that ultimately avoided him being stuck in situations like this. When you're used as a WR almost 70% of the time and you're labeled as a different positional player they should have paid him almost 70% of the difference between what a TE is tagged and a WR is tagged. 

 

This would have not happened to Revis is what I'm saying. 

[Villain The Foe]

Honestly folks all you had to do was listen to the real NFL insiders like Herman Edwards and Bill Polian were saying to know where this was going to land.  The media just pumped this up because they have nothing more to fill the 24/7 multiple station crap they continue to pump.  I mean seriously, if a slot receiver is going to get $6 - $8MM/yr what did you think was going to happen to Graham?

Thats based on general salary, if you tag a slot receiver it isn't based on top slot receiver money, its based on top receiver money. it should have been no different with Graham, a guy who plays more WR than anything else. To tag him a TE is cool, then he should never play WR for the saints again. I hope thats what he does. 

[Villain The Foe]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

 

If Jimmy refuses to line up outside, he becomes a "that's not my job" employee, which ultimately isn't a team player, which ultimately diminishes his stats and his value to the franchise, which ultimately hurts his earnings potential even more than this ruling does.

 

I think it sucks, but it maybe he can make the money up in his longterm contract with them. The best thing he could do at this point, honestly, is play this year and get paid by another team willing to give him TE/WR money. 

This is true, but I dont think it would hurt his monetary value. He will simply be valued as a TE which is the work that he does, and will be setting the market for being the best TE in the game. If the Saints or another team decide to negotiate a new contract and they would like to use him all over the field then its the responsibility of Grahams agent to get "all over the field" money for Graham.

[Villain The Foe]

wonder if front offices will tell HCs to keep track of percentage of plays TEs play outside going forward to stay under some magic threshold. this ruling could affect the play on the field which is too bad.

Jordan Cameron, after the announcement that Graham lost via his twitter admission, changed his twitter information from "pro bowl TE" to "Pro Bowl pass catcher". 

[slats]

The best thing he could do at this point, honestly, is play this year and get paid by another team willing to give him TE/WR money.

What Would Revis Do?

That's the money play but, obviously, it's risky. ProFootballTalk was speculating that a team expecting a late first rounder next year my pony up an offer sheet (the cost is two first rounders) based on the lower number, but I'll believe that when I see it.

[Integrity28]

What Would Revis Do?

That's the money play but, obviously, it's risky. ProFootballTalk was speculating that a team expecting a late first rounder next year my pony up an offer sheet (the cost is two first rounders) based on the lower number, but I'll believe that when I see it.

 

I have nothing against the Saints, and I think Drew Brees is one of the best athlete/citizens in the game, but I wouldn't mind seeing this blow up in the Saints face for the pure lolz.

[Larz]

an arbitrator gave a 12 page decision

 

that ends the issue

[jorge o8]

please let him go to a crap team see if not winning is what they want, next year he will get paid and i hope is by us!! how many of us can go to their boss and say

'im not doing that,is not my job".  this just keeps TEs and WRs at their pay scale thats all, or next it will be DEs and OLbs wanting more money

[BurnleyJet]

It's the average spread for a Tight End top5 salaries, that Jimmy gets right, but someone will pay him Wide Out money. So over time the pay for these guys will go up, based on the importance of the Tight End in the modern game.

He's going to get 9 or 10 per when he goes Free agent.

[Villain The Foe]

an arbitrator gave a 12 page decision

 

that ends the issue

Good thing I didnt read it and decided to create a thread on it. Surely doesn't end it here on Jetnation! 

[Villain The Foe]

It's the average spread for a Tight End top5 salaries, that Jimmy gets right, but someone will pay him Wide Out money. So over time the pay for these guys will go up, based on the importance of the Tight End in the modern game.

He's going to get 9 or 10 per when he goes Free agent.

"IF" he's ever a free agent. For all that just keep tagging him for 6 million every year until he's out of his prime or you got another guy behind him. Save yourself 4 million dollars. 

[slats]

"IF" he's ever a free agent. For all that just keep tagging him for 6 million every year until he's out of his prime or you got another guy behind him. Save yourself 4 million dollars. 

 

That's not how it works. Assuming the value of his initial franchise tag is $6M, if he's tagged the following year he gets a minimum of a 20% raise - or $7.2M. If the team opts to tag him for a third year, he's awarded the QB franchise value for that season (in other words, he won't be tagged a third year). 

[Larz]

Good thing I didnt read it and decided to create a thread on it. Surely doesn't end it here on Jetnation! 

 

this is all just establishing the framework of his long term deal.  and bad news for all TE's, lol

[Villain The Foe]

That's not how it works. Assuming the value of his initial franchise tag is $6M, if he's tagged the following year he gets a minimum of a 20% raise - or $7.2M. If the team opts to tag him for a third year, he's awarded the QB franchise value for that season (in other words, he won't be tagged a third year). 

Thats what I get for playing madden all the time. 

[neckdemon]

the man will make 7 million dollars this year. even if I try I can't feel bad for him.

[Sperm Edwards]

the man will make 7 million dollars this year. even if I try I can't feel bad for him.

 

Yeah, but the extra millions any team would be willing to pay him as a FA - including New Orleans, probably - are going to go to other players on the Saints' roster.  Better for them, but worse for Graham.

 

On the open market he'd get millions more, but he's still not going to get the average of the top 5 paid WRs.  Right or wrong in teams assessing his relative value, I don't see Graham getting $14M/year.  Even though he lines up in the slot so much, how many slot WRs get $14M/year? Zero. Harvin is the closest, and while he did up in the slot 60% of the time when Seattle picked him up, the rest of the time he usually lined up further out rather than closer in. Plus he sometimes lines up in the backfield.  And he's a deadly returner.  Significant reasons why he was paid so much.  Totally different from Graham.  And Harvin was massively overpaid by Seattle because they've been unable to draft or pick up a special WR for many years despite numerous attempts.  Couple of pretty good WRs (one of which they just let go of in FA), and a bunch of high-paid pass-catching flops for the money paid: Houshmandzadeh, Mike Williams, Rice, Miller (TE) most notably.

 

I don't know when Graham will get locked up long-term, but I think his number would up closer to $10-11M (potentially, but not necessarily, on the lower end of that on New Orleans, since they have him over a barrel somewhat with the tag).  That would still put him way over the top for TE money, which seems correct.  But he's just not getting top 5 WR money. The top 2 WRs get north of $16M.  Average of a top 5 that includes those 2 is not happening.

[Villain The Foe]

Yeah, but the extra millions any team would be willing to pay him as a FA - including New Orleans, probably - are going to go to other players on the Saints' roster.  Better for them, but worse for Graham.

 

On the open market he'd get millions more, but he's still not going to get the average of the top 5 paid WRs.  Right or wrong in teams assessing his relative value, I don't see Graham getting $14M/year.  Even though he lines up in the slot so much, how many slot WRs get $14M/year? Zero. Harvin is the closest, and while he did up in the slot 60% of the time when Seattle picked him up, the rest of the time he usually lined up further out rather than closer in. Plus he sometimes lines up in the backfield.  And he's a deadly returner.  Significant reasons why he was paid so much.  Totally different from Graham.  And Harvin was massively overpaid by Seattle because they've been unable to draft or pick up a special WR for many years despite numerous attempts.  Couple of pretty good WRs (one of which they just let go of in FA), and a bunch of high-paid pass-catching flops for the money paid: Houshmandzadeh, Mike Williams, Rice, Miller (TE) most notably.

 

I don't know when Graham will get locked up long-term, but I think his number would up closer to $10-11M (potentially, but not necessarily, on the lower end of that on New Orleans, since they have him over a barrel somewhat with the tag).  That would still put him way over the top for TE money, which seems correct.  But he's just not getting top 5 WR money. The top 2 WRs get north of $16M.  Average of a top 5 that includes those 2 is not happening.

I think you're right. I think Graham was looking for 9 to 10 million a year. I dont think he was never looking for top WR money, he just knew that he's more valuable than the 6 or 7 million he'll be getting this year. He was fighting more for getting a new deal rather than being franchised. If he would have one that arbitration the Saints probably would have struck a new long term deal in order to not pay him franchise WR money.

[BurnleyJet]

We payed Holmes 9 per...

[#27TheDominator]

this is all just establishing the framework of his long term deal.  and bad news for all TE's, lol

 

 

Actually it is good news for all TE's.  It's bad news for WR's in TE's bodies that are drafted with the TE label. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Without getting into the merits or demerits of the whole tagging system, if the designation was really more accurate they'd designate slot WRs separately from flankers/split ends, in which case Graham's tag amount wouldn't be all that much different than as a TE no matter how the ruling came down. 

[SenorGato]

NFL: 9238212792479473947349734373793975

 

Players: 0

 

There's just about zero things that bring me more joy than an NFL team getting to save a couple million on a technicality. To think a man who, clearly, outworked Graham in life would be forced to pay him a couple million extra bucks to catch a foozeball...*wipes sweat from brow*....Not to mention any salary cap ramifications! 

[SenorGato]

It is unfortunate but on a serious note - Graham actually is a TE.

 

 

Seriously if I was Jimmy, anytime the Saints want me to line up in the slot or outside I'd tell them "Im not a WR". 

 

 

 

That would be awesome until he realizes that a living prole is a replaceable prole!