New York Jets Finally Have Balanced Team Rex Ryan Needs

[Arsis]

I just farted so bad that I threw up with didn't exactly help the smell. I framed it and sold it to an art exibit titled "offseason on JetNation.com"

[Maxman]

You've entered the not worthy of response troll stage. Congrats

 

Agreed.

[Maxman]

I just farted so bad that I threw up with didn't exactly help the smell. I framed it and sold it to an art exibit titled "offseason on JetNation.com"

 

Sad but true.

[Sperm Edwards]

yeah, maybe 16th ?   but that team was also very top heavy, this team could also potentially have depth

 

Think it was 13th. Hardly top 5, but it was freaking Sanchez & Schottenheimer.

[Maxman]

I just farted so bad that I threw up with didn't exactly help the smell. I framed it and sold it to an art exibit titled "offseason on JetNation.com"

 

Also I was the winning bidder. Any idea when it will ship?

[32EBoozer]

Sperm Edwards

Moderators

27,559 posts

Posted Today, 11:36 AM

"Throw in Robertson another year more experienced (which is scary),"

I assume you meant Richardson? Not busting chops, but for a few seconds I was wondering if there's a player on the team I was unfamiliar with.

[Sperm Edwards]

Sperm Edwards

Moderators

27,559 posts

Posted Today, 11:36 AM

"Throw in Robertson another year more experienced (which is scary),"

I assume you meant Richardson? Not busting chops, but for a few seconds I was wondering if there's a player on the team I was unfamiliar with.

 

lol, yes I meant Richardson.  Thanks -- fixed.

 

Bringing back Robertson would be scary indeed.

[Bleedin Green]

lol, yes I meant Richardson.  Thanks -- fixed.

 

Bringing back Robertson would be scary indeed.

 

They're pretty much the same player.

[jgb]

Without a stud pass-rusher to speak of on the roster—no player on the team hit double-digit sacks—the Jets never fared worse than eighth in overall defense, including a No. 1 ranking in 2009.

 

 

The odd aspect of the 2013 defense is that while its secondary struggles were well-documented, it was working with one of the best defensive fronts in the NFL.

The combination of Muhammad Wilkerson, Damon Harrison, Sheldon Richardson and Quinton Coples made up the best defensive line Ryan employed in New York by a long shot. Two players—Wilkerson and Calvin Pace—breached the 10-sack mark.

 

 

[Go Jets77]

Jets have had a few balenced teams for Rex and hehas failed.

[jgb]

I think its an interesting question.  is balance better than a dominant unit with a crappy one ?

 

idzik replaced every offensive starter except mangold and ferguson, and has avoided the big splashy free agents in favor of boring old depth for the most part.

 

so will a team with a say top 18 offense and a top 18 defense be better than a #30 offense and a top 10 defense ?

 

balance definitely but the question is how much balance. 16th in both offensive and defense probably isn't going to win a championship.

[Bugg]

The Jets had a higher-ranked offense than that with Sanchez & Schottenheimer.

Jets offense PPG in 2012-28th (Sanchez/Tony form Miami)

2013-29th.(Geno/MM)

Better how?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2013.htm

Further the Jets' Pt. Differential was -97, which was 26th, which would ordinarily mean you can expect a record on average of about 5.4 wins against 10.6 losses. That over a 16 game season is an anomaly. Basically the 2013 Jets record was 2+ games better than their math would have predicted. Would suggest that is luck, and that isn't something you can expect again. Or worse the luck runs out.There were lomg stretches of games were the offense was noncompetitive and put the defense in bad spots, and allowed opponents to play clock and ball control games because the Jets' offense was so awful. Which may mean the defense isn't so talented, merely benefitting from opponents knowing the Jets' offense was utter crap. In fairness over 16 games the defense was what it was.It's simply hard to get a handle on things when an offense is so freaking terrible. Game that stands out as most typical was the Carolina game; Jets' defense was stout all afternoon, and Geno Smith and the offense did nothing in a game that was there for the taking all day. And of course later in the game Carolina took control when the defense wore down.

Now let's assume the defense is better. May be they get a few more turnovers but recall that the often is a function of your opponent's ablity and some luck. And grant a better secondary, so may be some more sacks. Still, the idea Johnson and Decker bridge that gap and Jets again get some luck is a stretch. That is a lot of ifs and buts. Whether the QB is SMith or Vick, said QB figures to turn the ball over and be inaccurate.

Fear is the Jets somehow put lipstick on the pig again, squeak out 7-9 wins, and the scores with a decent defense and pathetic offense look kinda okay. And therefore Woody's love for Rex goes on and Rex lives to coach another year along without a top draft pick next April.This is a very distinct worst case scenario. And it's arguably even likely.

[jgb]

Jets offense PPG in 2012-28th (Sanchez/Tony form Miami)

2013-29th.(Geno/MM)

Better how?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2013.htm

Further the Jets' Pt. Differential was -97, which was 26th, which would ordinarily mean you can expect a record on average of about 5.4 wins against 10.6 losses. That over a 16 game season is an anomaly. Basically the 2013 Jets record was 2+ games better than their math would have predicted. Would suggest that is luck, and that isn't something you can expect again. Or worse the luck runs out.There were lomg stretches of games were the offense was noncompetitive and put the defense in bad spots, and allowed opponents to play clock and ball control games because the Jets' offense was so awful. Which may mean the defense isn't so talented, merely benefitting from opponents knowing the Jets' offense was utter crap. In fairness over 16 games the defense was what it was.It's simply hard to get a handle on things when an offense is so freaking terrible. Game that stands out as most typical was the Carolina game; Jets' defense was stout all afternoon, and Geno Smith and the offense did nothing in a game that was there for the taking all day. And of course later in the game Carolina took control when the defense wore down.

Now let's assume the defense is better. May be they get a few more turnovers but recall that the often is a function of your opponent's ablity and some luck. And grant a better secondary, so may be some more sacks. Still, the idea Johnson and Decker bridge that gap and Jets again get some luck is a stretch. That is a lot of ifs and buts. Whether the QB is SMith or Vick, said QB figures to turn the ball over and be inaccurate.

Fear is the Jets somehow put lipstick on the pig again, squeak out 7-9 wins, and the scores with a decent defense and pathetic offense look kinda okay. And therefore Woody's love for Rex goes on and Rex lives to coach another year along without a top draft pick next April.This is a very distinct worst case scenario. And it's arguably even likely.

 

agree completely, which is why i have been saying if we go 8-8 this year it almost certainly means the team improved quite a bit.

[Sperm Edwards]

Jets offense PPG in 2012-28th (Sanchez/Tony form Miami)

2013-29th.(Geno/MM)

Better how?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2013.htm

Further the Jets' Pt. Differential was -97, which was 26th, which would ordinarily mean you can expect a record on average of about 5.4 wins against 10.6 losses. That over a 16 game season is an anomaly. Basically the 2013 Jets record was 2+ games better than their math would have predicted. Would suggest that is luck, and that isn't something you can expect again. Or worse the luck runs out.There were lomg stretches of games were the offense was noncompetitive and put the defense in bad spots, and allowed opponents to play clock and ball control games because the Jets' offense was so awful. Which may mean the defense isn't so talented, merely benefitting from opponents knowing the Jets' offense was utter crap. In fairness over 16 games the defense was what it was.It's simply hard to get a handle on things when an offense is so freaking terrible. Game that stands out as most typical was the Carolina game; Jets' defense was stout all afternoon, and Geno Smith and the offense did nothing in a game that was there for the taking all day. And of course later in the game Carolina took control when the defense wore down.

Now let's assume the defense is better. May be they get a few more turnovers but recall that the often is a function of your opponent's ablity and some luck. And grant a better secondary, so may be some more sacks. Still, the idea Johnson and Decker bridge that gap and Jets again get some luck is a stretch. That is a lot of ifs and buts. Whether the QB is SMith or Vick, said QB figures to turn the ball over and be inaccurate.

Fear is the Jets somehow put lipstick on the pig again, squeak out 7-9 wins, and the scores with a decent defense and pathetic offense look kinda okay. And therefore Woody's love for Rex goes on and Rex lives to coach another year along without a top draft pick next April.This is a very distinct worst case scenario. And it's arguably even likely.

I know you didn't watch the team back then, but the Jets have had higher than the 18th ranked offense with Sanchez & Schottenheimer. Unless you were confused by my bringing up this totally clear fact.

I hope it brings you pleasure to bring up statistics from a team that was gutted, prior to it being retooled, with really an unready rookie and nothing else to play QB. I mean, I guess it does bring you pleasure, since you do it so often I suppose you think it's profound or something. Like the laughable belief that Matt Simms is this great QB just being held back by Ryan for absolutely no reason whatsoever except Wrecks something.

I know you think McCarthy is a good coach. Well, what happened to the 2013 Packers without Aaron Rodgers? With him, McCarthy looks like this super-smart coach on top of everything. Without Aaron Rodgers? Do tell me about point differentials with that team. Here it is:

-7 vs Chicago

-14 vs Philadelphia

-14 vs NYG

tie vs Minnesota

-30 vs Detroit

+1 vs Atlanta without Julio or Roddy and were 3-9 and eliminated

+1 vs Dallas

-6 vs Pittsburgh

-69 point differential in the 8 games without Rodgers. Over 16 games that's a -138 point differential. And a record of 2-5-1 over that 8-game span. That same team with Rodgers, though? 6-2.

Another interesting stat is that until GB's all-world QB got injured, the DEFENSE had given up 20 points or less in 4 of the 6 games. Rodgers gets injured and they suddenly can't repeat that feat ONCE for the rest of the season. Or was that all the fault of Dom Capers because McCarthy only coaches half the team or something?

A bad QB is everything. A great QB makes a sh*tty coach look way, way better than he is. It can even make a mediocre head coach into a champion, which causes people to claim he's so much better or smarter than he really is.

It's amazing, though. A team finishes 8-8. If there's a high negative point differential, the one thing a normal fan would do is point to the coaching and say it was a good job with a team that was obviously inferior on paper. Literally every team in the league with that point differential finished with between 2 and 4 wins. The Jets win 8 and of all the things being criticized it's the coaching job. Simply amazing. If it was any team other than the Jets doing this, the same Wrecks-Rex-sux crew here would be hailing that head coach as having done one hell of a job with a bunch of garbage that his GMs left him to work with.

As a fan I'd be more pissed off at a coach like McCarthy who just gave the perfect argument for firing him outright. His whole coaching career is "I had Aaron Rodgers. Before him I had Brett Favre. With neither, I couldn't muster up a single 2-point win in half a football season."

I don't think you know who's good or who's bad. You just know who has a QB with gaudy passing numbers and think it's the same thing.

[flgreen]

Lol

 

 

?????

[Bugg]

I know you didn't watch the team back then, but the Jets have had higher than the 18th ranked offense with Sanchez & Schottenheimer. Unless you were confused by my bringing up this totally clear fact.

I hope it brings you pleasure to bring up statistics from a team that was gutted, prior to it being retooled, with really an unready rookie and nothing else to play QB. I mean, I guess it does bring you pleasure, since you do it so often I suppose you think it's profound or something. Like the laughable belief that Matt Simms is this great QB just being held back by Ryan for absolutely no reason whatsoever except Wrecks something.

I know you think McCarthy is a good coach. Well, what happened to the 2013 Packers without Aaron Rodgers? With him, McCarthy looks like this super-smart coach on top of everything. Without Aaron Rodgers? Do tell me about point differentials with that team. Here it is:

-7 vs Chicago

-14 vs Philadelphia

-14 vs NYG

tie vs Minnesota

-30 vs Detroit

+1 vs Atlanta without Julio or Roddy and were 3-9 and eliminated

+1 vs Dallas

-6 vs Pittsburgh

-69 point differential in the 8 games without Rodgers. Over 16 games that's a -138 point differential. And a record of 2-5-1 over that 8-game span. That same team with Rodgers, though? 6-2.

Another interesting stat is that until GB's all-world QB got injured, the DEFENSE had given up 20 points or less in 4 of the 6 games. Rodgers gets injured and they suddenly can't repeat that feat ONCE for the rest of the season. Or was that all the fault of Dom Capers because McCarthy only coaches half the team or something?

A bad QB is everything. A great QB makes a sh*tty coach look way, way better than he is. It can even make a mediocre head coach into a champion, which causes people to claim he's so much better or smarter than he really is.

It's amazing, though. A team finishes 8-8. If there's a high negative point differential, the one thing a normal fan would do is point to the coaching and say it was a good job with a team that was obviously inferior on paper. Literally every team in the league with that point differential finished with between 2 and 4 wins. The Jets win 8 and of all the things being criticized it's the coaching job. Simply amazing. If it was any team other than the Jets doing this, the same Wrecks-Rex-sux crew here would be hailing that head coach as having done one hell of a job with a bunch of garbage that his GMs left him to work with.

As a fan I'd be more pissed off at a coach like McCarthy who just gave the perfect argument for firing him outright. His whole coaching career is "I had Aaron Rodgers. Before him I had Brett Favre. With neither, I couldn't muster up a single 2-point win in half a football season."

I don't think you know who's good or who's bad. You just know who has a QB with gaudy passing numbers and think it's the same thing.

Rodgers getting hurt makes the point yet again that without a decent QB you aren't likley to be competitive.Right now there is not a decent QB on the Jets roster.

Yes, on occasion in the Pick 6/Schitty exacta the Jets were occasionally adequate.

It is fair to say that the differential thing may point to a good coaching job. It is also fair to say it might be a result of some luck or some combination of both. What is undeniable is that it's not likely to happen again. And if the Jets continue to be 25th or worse in PPG they aren't winning anything that matters in the AFC.

And what is absoulutely fair to say is that for what ever the reasons the offense of the NY Jets under Rex Ryan has been mostly terrible. Decker and Johnson will no doubt help. But Ryan has the habit of bringing in guys who have decent resumes (Mason, Holmes, Edwards, Burress) only to see their careers practically end here. Deckeer and Johnson will be different because....?

[Smashmouth]

give Ryan an offense and we win the next 10 SB's

I was thinking more like 15

[use2Jet]

I know you didn't watch the team back then, but the Jets have had higher than the 18th ranked offense with Sanchez & Schottenheimer. Unless you were confused by my bringing up this totally clear fact.

I hope it brings you pleasure to bring up statistics from a team that was gutted, prior to it being retooled, with really an unready rookie and nothing else to play QB. I mean, I guess it does bring you pleasure, since you do it so often I suppose you think it's profound or something. Like the laughable belief that Matt Simms is this great QB just being held back by Ryan for absolutely no reason whatsoever except Wrecks something.

I know you think McCarthy is a good coach. Well, what happened to the 2013 Packers without Aaron Rodgers? With him, McCarthy looks like this super-smart coach on top of everything. Without Aaron Rodgers? Do tell me about point differentials with that team. Here it is:

-7 vs Chicago

-14 vs Philadelphia

-14 vs NYG

tie vs Minnesota

-30 vs Detroit

+1 vs Atlanta without Julio or Roddy and were 3-9 and eliminated

+1 vs Dallas

-6 vs Pittsburgh

-69 point differential in the 8 games without Rodgers. Over 16 games that's a -138 point differential. And a record of 2-5-1 over that 8-game span. That same team with Rodgers, though? 6-2.

Another interesting stat is that until GB's all-world QB got injured, the DEFENSE had given up 20 points or less in 4 of the 6 games. Rodgers gets injured and they suddenly can't repeat that feat ONCE for the rest of the season. Or was that all the fault of Dom Capers because McCarthy only coaches half the team or something?

A bad QB is everything. A great QB makes a sh*tty coach look way, way better than he is. It can even make a mediocre head coach into a champion, which causes people to claim he's so much better or smarter than he really is.

It's amazing, though. A team finishes 8-8. If there's a high negative point differential, the one thing a normal fan would do is point to the coaching and say it was a good job with a team that was obviously inferior on paper. Literally every team in the league with that point differential finished with between 2 and 4 wins. The Jets win 8 and of all the things being criticized it's the coaching job. Simply amazing. If it was any team other than the Jets doing this, the same Wrecks-Rex-sux crew here would be hailing that head coach as having done one hell of a job with a bunch of garbage that his GMs left him to work with.

As a fan I'd be more pissed off at a coach like McCarthy who just gave the perfect argument for firing him outright. His whole coaching career is "I had Aaron Rodgers. Before him I had Brett Favre. With neither, I couldn't muster up a single 2-point win in half a football season."

I don't think you know who's good or who's bad. You just know who has a QB with gaudy passing numbers and think it's the same thing.

 

Your admiration for Rex has you really reaching here.

 

Using McCarthy's situation when losing Rodgers is just silly. When you have a player at the QB position of the caliber of Rodgers, taking up as much cap as he does, and having the entire franchise revolving around him from the players you bring in, to the offense, the defensive strategy, no coach can really overcome that, none.

 

Mind you, I am not saying McCarthy is great, or even very good, but this is a really, really silly point to try to make a case for Ryan. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Rodgers getting hurt makes the point yet again that without a decent QB you aren't likley to be competitive.Right now there is not a decent QB on the Jets roster.

Yes, on occasion in the Pick 6/Schitty exacta the Jets were occasionally adequate.

It is fair to say that the differential thing may point to a good coaching job. It is also fair to say it might be a result of some luck or some combination of both. What is undeniable is that it's not likely to happen again. And if the Jets continue to be 25th or worse in PPG they aren't winning anything that matters in the AFC.

And what is absoulutely fair to say is that for what ever the reasons the offense of the NY Jets under Rex Ryan has been mostly terrible. Decker and Johnson will no doubt help. But Ryan has the habit of bringing in guys who have decent resumes (Mason, Holmes, Edwards, Burress) only to see their careers practically end here. Deckeer and Johnson will be different because....?

 

I didn't say they were adequate.  Rather, it was that even with Schottenheimer & (a bad & inexperienced) Sanchez, the Jets managed better than the #18 offense.  No other inferences were drawn.

 

The rest of it is you making stuff up.  

 

• Edwards' career didn't end here. It ended elsewhere. When he was last playing for the Jets - despite only having Sanchez throwing it on a run-first team - he was still productive (900 yds + 7 TDs). His career died in San Fran with Harbaugh.

 

• Holmes is a total douchebag.  His career truly ended with his lisfranc injury, which no WR has ever really recovered from (he would be the first, as far as I know). What team he played for when getting injured is a lame thing to point at.  Why not blame Belichick for ending the career of Chad Johnson? It's more accurate than any of these. Hey, technically he ended the career of Randy Moss according to your criteria. 

 

• Plaxico Burress's career ended on the Giants. Everyone knows this, apparently, except you. He was past the playing prime of 90% of NFL players by the time he got out of jail. Letdown as he was as an acquisition, he still had 8 TDs. A feat he never accomplished in 5 seasons with Pittsburgh or in half his seasons for the Giants.

 

• Mason's career was over no matter where he went.  It happens to all players, which any NFL fan ought to know. Law of averages suggests that you have a higher percentage of betting incorrectly a certain percentage of the time when you add a WR at age 37, and unfortunately Ryan asked for him and got stung.  Meanwhile, though, Mason was playing for the veteran minimum so it was hardly a major investment and stopped us from adding literally no one else (hell, we didn't pick him up until August).  I suppose it's Ryan's fault that Mason turned 37, though, as well. Besides, he wasn't that productive in his last year in Baltimore either despite starting every game. Which is why they let him go, apparently. They wanted a younger, faster starter.  The Jets wanted a slot receiver who wasn't their regular starter once Burress was caught up. Those first few games the Jets were actually plenty productive. Who cares if Mason, specifically, was the recipient of yards instead of someone else? Then your criticism would be not getting enough out of those players at that time. 

 

But your assessments of when Mason's and Braylon's careers ended is ludicrous. When the last year of value was before getting to the Jets, Ryan ended his career.  When the last year of value was ON the Jets, Ryan ended his career.

 

Incidentally Tomlinson's career was ended pretty definitively while playing for that well respected Norv Turner.  It was resurrected - which is pretty rare at all for a RB past 30 anyway - on the Ryan Jets.

 

You should spend less of your life as an angry man. You are enraged by things that plague every NFL team and are even lashing into things you'd praise if they occurred on other teams (like winning despite a stiff at QB, or even reaching .500 with such an inferior overall roster). And the past 2 seasons the roster certainly lacked more than just a QB (to the extent that the blindly-loyal Sanchez fans still felt it was the fault of everyone else that he wasn't even average QB). On top of that, expensive starters the team was locked into either got old, got injured, or they bet on the wrong guys while passing up on their replacements in the draft.  Or - like Sanchez - they just threw gobs of money on a player who they should have known was bad and would always be, no matter what glimpses he may have shown in practice or in some games.  I have little doubt Tannenbaum's reply, in March of 2012, was that even if Sanchez didn't live up to hopes he could still manipulate things enough to add whoever we needed.  Which of course is no stroke of mathematical genius; it would just require extending/guaranteeing current players even further past their productivity warrants.  Remember the calls for us to extend Sanchez further in the spring of 2013 so we could clear up a little more cap room? I do. Luckily, Tannenbaum was fired, because that's what had a good chance of occurring.

 

You know all that occurred with the roster the past 2 seasons.  Including the team having nothing but Stephen Hill to start opposite Santonio Holmes - who then got injured early on top of that - and to some this was the design of the head coach. The same head coach who didn't want Hill in the first place (let alone to use 3 draft picks on him), and who said so right after he was drafted. But that the head coach's boss, who was supposedly really his lackey, went and did just that anyway. And that somehow this piece, in any way, fits into the puzzle some have created.

[slats]

It is fair to say that the differential thing may point to a good coaching job. It is also fair to say it might be a result of some luck or some combination of both. What is undeniable is that it's not likely to happen again. And if the Jets continue to be 25th or worse in PPG they aren't winning anything that matters in the AFC.

 

There was definitely some luck involved, mostly bad for the Jets. That point differential was no doubt related to the Jets #31 ranking in turnover differential. The interceptions thrown by Geno are well documented, but the Jets recovered a league-low 2 fumbles on defense all last year. While I'd like to see a little more focus on forcing and recovering fumbles from this defense, it's pretty obvious that recovering just two fumbles is some bad luck with the bouncing of the football. The Jets were so bad on both sides of the stat last year, that there should be good reason to expect improvement. A lot of improvement, I'd hope. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Your admiration for Rex has you really reaching here.

 

Using McCarthy's situation when losing Rodgers is just silly. When you have a player at the QB position of the caliber of Rodgers, taking up as much cap as he does, and having the entire franchise revolving around him from the players you bring in, to the offense, the defensive strategy, no coach can really overcome that, none.

 

Mind you, I am not saying McCarthy is great, or even very good, but this is a really, really silly point to try to make a case for Ryan. 

 

I don't have admiration for Ryan at all. He just isn't as bad as people are making out, and he's being judged as a coach on the same plane as those who have far better talent at the most important position. Never mind how many of those teams the Jets have beaten, or how far the team has gotten at times, despite this obvious handicap.

 

You're the one who is reaching, though, and apologizing for someone else who you'd consider an awful coach if he was employed by the Jets.  With this one player, the team is a superbowl contender (once even a superbowl winner).  Without him, the otherwise identical team can't win a single game by 2 measly points.  Hell, even his defense falls apart without Rodgers.  How can that possibly point to him being even a mediocre head coach by your standards?  The answer is that he's not Ryan and he doesn't coach for the Jets.

 

Hell, you even make up nonsense about Rodgers eating up a disproportionate amount of the salary cap last season, which is absolutely ludicrous.  Aaron Rodgers had a LOWER cap number on the 2013 Packers ($12M) than Darrelle Revis had on the 2013 Jets ($13M).  Eat that. 

[use2Jet]

I don't have admiration for Ryan at all. He just isn't as bad as people are making out, and he's being judged as a coach on the same plane as those who have far better talent at the most important position. Never mind how many of those teams the Jets have beaten, or how far the team has gotten at times, despite this obvious handicap.

 

You're the one who is reaching, though, and apologizing for someone else who you'd consider an awful coach if he was employed by the Jets.  With this one player, the team is a superbowl contender (once even a superbowl winner).  Without him, the otherwise identical team can't win a single game by 2 measly points.  Hell, even his defense falls apart without Rodgers.  How can that possibly point to him being even a mediocre head coach by your standards?  The answer is that he's not Ryan and he doesn't coach for the Jets.

 

Hell, you even make up nonsense about Rodgers eating up a disproportionate amount of the salary cap last season, which is absolutely ludicrous.  Aaron Rodgers had a LOWER cap number on the 2013 Packers ($12M) than Darrelle Revis had on the 2013 Jets ($13M).  Eat that. 

 

I don't think he is as bad as many make him out to be either, and have readily admitted that. He is just not good enough.

 

And looking at one year in a contract and how much cap they take up in one year is not telling the whole story. I can tell from your posts that you are smarter than that, you just want to defend Ryan at all costs.

 

BS that you don't love him, you go out of your way to defend and excuse everything the guy has done with the exception of a few pointless things.

[Sperm Edwards]

I don't think he is as bad as many make him out to be either, and have readily admitted that. He is just not good enough.

 

And looking at one year in a contract and how much cap they take up in one year is not telling the whole story. I can tell from your posts that you are smarter than that, you just want to defend Ryan at all costs.

 

BS that you don't love him, you go out of your way to defend and excuse everything the guy has done with the exception of a few pointless things.

 

What's bull is your claim that Aaron Rodgers was eating up SO much cap room on the Packers; essentially your point is they couldn't assemble even a mediocre squad around him because there was no cap room left after him. But of course, there is zero merit to this, as he had a relatively low cap number (for a player of his ability and resume). He even had a lower cap number than Revis had on the Jets, while playing the entire season for the Bucs.  

I have little option but to believe you know nothing about anything about this team or any other, and therefore resort to making things up with the hope that no one calls you out on it. 

[use2Jet]

What's bull is your claim that Aaron Rodgers was eating up SO much cap room on the Packers; essentially your point is they couldn't assemble even a mediocre squad around him because there was no cap room left after him. But of course, there is zero merit to this, as he had a relatively low cap number (for a player of his ability and resume). He even had a lower cap number than Revis had on the Jets, while playing the entire season for the Bucs.

I have little option but to believe you know nothing about anything about this team or any other, and therefore resort to making things up with the hope that no one calls you out on it.

Lol, I'll chalk this one up to "I'm too prideful to admit I'm wrong"

[Sperm Edwards]

Lol, I'll chalk this one up to "I'm too prideful to admit I'm wrong"

 

As in, you made a definitive - never mind ludicrious - statement that the Packers weren't compete without Rodgers because he was eating up too much cap space? Only to find that Revis - who wasn't even on the Jets - had a higher cap number FOR the Jets than Rodgers had?

[jgb]

As in, you made a definitive - never mind ludicrious - statement that the Packers weren't compete without Rodgers because he was eating up too much cap space? Only to find that Revis - who wasn't even on the Jets - had a higher cap number FOR the Jets than Rodgers had?

 

the whole rogers debate here points to one thing: you gotta go all out every other year in the draft to find a franchise QB. i think idzik understands this. this season is geno's one and only shot to prove he belongs. i am glad adults are in charge for a change.

[use2Jet]

As in, you made a definitive - never mind ludicrious - statement that the Packers weren't compete without Rodgers because he was eating up too much cap space? Only to find that Revis - who wasn't even on the Jets - had a higher cap number FOR the Jets than Rodgers had?

Lol, holy friggin agenda batman

[Bleedin Green]

I didn't say they were adequate.  Rather, it was that even with Schottenheimer & (a bad & inexperienced) Sanchez, the Jets managed better than the #18 offense.  No other inferences were drawn.

 

The rest of it is you making stuff up.  

 

• Edwards' career didn't end here. It ended elsewhere. When he was last playing for the Jets - despite only having Sanchez throwing it on a run-first team - he was still productive (900 yds + 7 TDs). His career died in San Fran with Harbaugh.

 

• Holmes is a total douchebag.  His career truly ended with his lisfranc injury, which no WR has ever really recovered from (he would be the first, as far as I know). What team he played for when getting injured is a lame thing to point at.  Why not blame Belichick for ending the career of Chad Johnson? It's more accurate than any of these. Hey, technically he ended the career of Randy Moss according to your criteria. 

 

• Plaxico Burress's career ended on the Giants. Everyone knows this, apparently, except you. He was past the playing prime of 90% of NFL players by the time he got out of jail. Letdown as he was as an acquisition, he still had 8 TDs. A feat he never accomplished in 5 seasons with Pittsburgh or in half his seasons for the Giants.

 

• Mason's career was over no matter where he went.  It happens to all players, which any NFL fan ought to know. Law of averages suggests that you have a higher percentage of betting incorrectly a certain percentage of the time when you add a WR at age 37, and unfortunately Ryan asked for him and got stung.  Meanwhile, though, Mason was playing for the veteran minimum so it was hardly a major investment and stopped us from adding literally no one else (hell, we didn't pick him up until August).  I suppose it's Ryan's fault that Mason turned 37, though, as well. Besides, he wasn't that productive in his last year in Baltimore either despite starting every game. Which is why they let him go, apparently. They wanted a younger, faster starter.  The Jets wanted a slot receiver who wasn't their regular starter once Burress was caught up. Those first few games the Jets were actually plenty productive. Who cares if Mason, specifically, was the recipient of yards instead of someone else? Then your criticism would be not getting enough out of those players at that time. 

 

But your assessments of when Mason's and Braylon's careers ended is ludicrous. When the last year of value was before getting to the Jets, Ryan ended his career.  When the last year of value was ON the Jets, Ryan ended his career.

 

Incidentally Tomlinson's career was ended pretty definitively while playing for that well respected Norv Turner.  It was resurrected - which is pretty rare at all for a RB past 30 anyway - on the Ryan Jets.

 

You should spend less of your life as an angry man. You are enraged by things that plague every NFL team and are even lashing into things you'd praise if they occurred on other teams (like winning despite a stiff at QB, or even reaching .500 with such an inferior overall roster). And the past 2 seasons the roster certainly lacked more than just a QB (to the extent that the blindly-loyal Sanchez fans still felt it was the fault of everyone else that he wasn't even average QB). On top of that, expensive starters the team was locked into either got old, got injured, or they bet on the wrong guys while passing up on their replacements in the draft.  Or - like Sanchez - they just threw gobs of money on a player who they should have known was bad and would always be, no matter what glimpses he may have shown in practice or in some games.  I have little doubt Tannenbaum's reply, in March of 2012, was that even if Sanchez didn't live up to hopes he could still manipulate things enough to add whoever we needed.  Which of course is no stroke of mathematical genius; it would just require extending/guaranteeing current players even further past their productivity warrants.  Remember the calls for us to extend Sanchez further in the spring of 2013 so we could clear up a little more cap room? I do. Luckily, Tannenbaum was fired, because that's what had a good chance of occurring.

 

You know all that occurred with the roster the past 2 seasons.  Including the team having nothing but Stephen Hill to start opposite Santonio Holmes - who then got injured early on top of that - and to some this was the design of the head coach. The same head coach who didn't want Hill in the first place (let alone to use 3 draft picks on him), and who said so right after he was drafted. But that the head coach's boss, who was supposedly really his lackey, went and did just that anyway. And that somehow this piece, in any way, fits into the puzzle some have created.

 

Thank you for saving me the effort of saying a lot of the same.  The Edwards one is definitely the most laughably absurd of all the claims, especially considering that Edwards last 1 and 1/2 seasons in Cleveland were considered quite a mess (there's a reason they traded him after all), and then Edwards' only full season in NY was the second best of his career, and substantially better than everything he did after that once off of the Jets.

 

Holmes I could at least see the argument for, even if I do agree with a number of the points you made about that situation, but Edwards is just beyond absurd.

[Sperm Edwards]

the whole rogers debate here points to one thing: you gotta go all out every other year in the draft to find a franchise QB. i think idzik understands this. this season is geno's one and only shot to prove he belongs. i am glad adults are in charge for a change.

 

No doubt. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Lol, holy friggin agenda batman

 

I would say that to you, since you need to resort to making things up to support yours.

[Bleedin Green]

There was definitely some luck involved, mostly bad for the Jets. That point differential was no doubt related to the Jets #31 ranking in turnover differential. The interceptions thrown by Geno are well documented, but the Jets recovered a league-low 2 fumbles on defense all last year. While I'd like to see a little more focus on forcing and recovering fumbles from this defense, it's pretty obvious that recovering just two fumbles is some bad luck with the bouncing of the football. The Jets were so bad on both sides of the stat last year, that there should be good reason to expect improvement. A lot of improvement, I'd hope. 

 

There are a few other things I find interesting about this luck agenda that some are trying to push.  The first being that nobody has any interest in applying any sort of similar logic to other team's throughout the league or analyzing similar situations, but we're supposed to believe it's just the Jets who were oh so lucky.  There's also the fact that this whole thing was trying to be sold by some on this site before anyone even realized the point differential (or the number yet even existed, as the season was still ongoing), and instead was simply citing single games.  So that is what it all really comes back to, which is the fact that this all started because, God forbid, the Jets dared to actually successfully win two different games within the final seconds.  It is these two games that those selling the luck angle often fall back on, except for there's one massive problem with that; in one of those two games that the Jets were supposedly "lucky" to win, the only reason the Jets didn't already have the game won long before that was because of bad luck (or really, bad officiating), which is the only thing that kept their opponents (the Pats) in the game.  So we're supposed to believe the Jets entire season was lucky because one late game call went for the Jets instead of against them for a change?

 

It's also worth noting that the Jets won all but one game all season long in which they scored more than 14 points (20 points vs the Panthers).  That's pretty much the entire dividing line of their win-loss record.  Not sure what's so lucky about that.

[Bleedin Green]

the whole rogers debate here points to one thing: you gotta go all out every other year in the draft to find a franchise QB. i think idzik understands this. this season is geno's one and only shot to prove he belongs. i am glad adults are in charge for a change.

 

Absolutely agree 100%, which is actually also the reason I disagree with you on the Geno/Vick thing.  I simply don't have any faith in Vick, and this is obviously Geno's one shot to prove he can be the guy (just as it should be), so I figure they might as well go all in on the guy.  Now if I really thought Vick made the Jets into a contender I might think differently, but I don't believe that at all, so I'd much rather the Jets be 100% sure on Geno by this season's end than anything else.  We had enough of this "I don't know, maybe he might possibly be the guy" horse crap with Sanchez, and Penny before him.  Now is the time to find out for sure and go from there.

[Bleedin Green]

Aaron Rodgers had a LOWER cap number on the 2013 Packers ($12M) than Darrelle Revis had on the 2013 Jets ($13M).  Eat that. 

 

LOL, holy sh*t.  Forget even any implications that it may have on this specific argument, that fact is absolutely f'n insane.  Wow.

[#27TheDominator]

And what is absoulutely fair to say is that for what ever the reasons the offense of the NY Jets under Rex Ryan has been mostly terrible. Decker and Johnson will no doubt help. But Ryan has the habit of bringing in guys who have decent resumes (Mason, Holmes, Edwards, Burress) only to see their careers practically end here. Deckeer and Johnson will be different because....?

 

Are you seriously comparing Mason and Burress to Decker?  Mason's career was over before he came to the Jets and Burress was how many years out of the league?  I can see the corallary with Johnson, but to lump Decker in with those stiffs is silly.  Maybe you can say Holmes, but Holmes was a malcontent that they got on the cheap and stupidly overpaid.  Having a guy's career end on your team is not a sign of bad coaching, it is a sign that the coach has been dealing with guys that don't belong in the league. 

[slats]

Absolutely agree 100%, which is actually also the reason I disagree with you on the Geno/Vick thing.  I simply don't have any faith in Vick, and this is obviously Geno's one shot to prove he can be the guy (just as it should be), so I figure they might as well go all in on the guy.  Now if I really thought Vick made the Jets into a contender I might think differently, but I don't believe that at all, so I'd much rather the Jets be 100% sure on Geno by this season's end than anything else.  We had enough of this "I don't know, maybe he might possibly be the guy" horse crap with Sanchez, and Penny before him.  Now is the time to find out for sure and go from there.

 

This is 100% my position as well at the QB position. We know Vick isn't the long term answer, might as well find out if Geno might be. I probably would've taken a QB before the 6th round this year, but that -to me- suggests that they actually have a little faith in the guy. If he doesn't show dramatic improvement with a year under his belt and an improved cast around him, they'll invest heavily at the position again next year. And that's exactly what they should be doing.