Holly S#$% Cimini being positive.. Jets can be special if Geno Smith flourishes

[slats]

Yeah but think about how awesome it will be when we win it all this year?

I just want Rex to be coach for life. If I have to endure a Super Bowl victory to get there, so be it.

[The Crusher]

I just want Rex to be coach for life. If I have to endure a Super Bowl victory to get there, so be it.

 

 

Personally I don;t think Rex has a shot to win it all until he puts the weight back on. Better get him a life long extension ASAP. 

[#27TheDominator]

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[kelticwizard]

This is an interesting point--who is the worst QB in the league that if he was on roster last year, the Jets would've made the playoffs? I think with Kyle Orten we win 10 games last season.

We've all seen Kyle Orton play well in this league.  But don't forget, he's also the guy with the losing record who got benched so TimTebow can take the team to the playoffs.

[Jetfan13]

" I can be rich if I  hit the lotto".

[stoicsentry]

*A second year QB who played like the worst QB in the NFL last year until the last 2 weeks of the season in meaningless games against bad defenses. 

 

The Browns were the 10th ranked scoring defense.

[Matt39]

Worth noting Tavon Austin just basically said he doesn't know how to read the Rams playbook.

Geno's a work in progress people. The WVU offense was pretty simple.

Or it could just be Schottenheimers fault.

[AFJF]

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Ranking the IF's....

 

3)  June 5th, 1944.....IF the weather lets up a little bit, we might be able to get our boys out of those Higgins boats and on to the beaches to take Europe back from Hitler.

 

2)  December 17th, 1903...IF we manage to get this heavier than air machine to lift off the ground, we can change the course of history

 

1)  July 22, 2014....IF Geno Smith flourishes, the Jets could be special.

 

Sounds about right to me.

[Sperm Edwards]

Worth noting Tavon Austin just basically said he doesn't know how to read the Rams playbook.

Geno's a work in progress people. The WVU offense was pretty simple.

Or it could just be Schottenheimers fault.

 

Didn't Austin get like a 6 on his Wonderlic or something?

[Thor99]

Besides obviously "nothing," what do you base this on?

It's based on Rex's history. He always pulls his QB too early.

[ZachEY]

Ranking the IF's....

 

3)  June 5th, 1944.....IF the weather lets up a little bit, we might be able to get our boys out of those Higgins boats and on to the beaches to take Europe back from Hitler.

 

2)  December 17th, 1903...IF we manage to get this heavier than air machine to lift off the ground, we can change the course of history

 

1)  July 22, 2014....IF Geno Smith flourishes, the Jets could be special.

 

Sounds about right to me.

 

Where does, "if Lincoln decides to spend the night at home" fit in?

[Matt39]

Didn't Austin get like a 6 on his Wonderlic or something?

Kid can't even read

[Sperm Edwards]

Kid can't even read

 

Looked it up. I was wrong: he got a 7.

 

How is it even possible to get a 7 out of 50 on a test where it's mostly multiple choice questions?

[AFJF]

Where does, "if Lincoln decides to spend the night at home" fit in?

Can't say for sure, but clearly nowhere near "If Geno Smith flourishes".

[ZachEY]

Looked it up. I was wrong: he got a 7.

 

How is it even possible to get a 7 out of 50 on a test where it's mostly multiple choice questions?

 

I taught psych 101 in the spring at a below average institution.  7 is tough... But you'd be surprised.

[Sperm Edwards]

I taught psych 101 in the spring at a below average institution.  7 is tough... But you'd be surprised.

 

Bad as that is, how many got a 7 after their agents prepared them to take it weeks in advance? How many had anything on the line (not to mention made public)?

All that kind of makes a 7 worse for an NFL prospect.

[ZachEY]

Bad as that is, how many got a 7 after their agents prepared them to take it weeks in advance? How many had anything on the line (not to mention made public)?

All that kind of makes a 7 worse for an NFL prospect.

 

I disagree with this premise.  My students who failed had far greater consequences than Tavon Austin who, was drafted only one spot behind his wonderlic score.  Likely as high as he was ever going to go.

 

Obviously the NFL doesn't care much.

[Sperm Edwards]

I disagree with this premise.  My students who failed had far greater consequences than Tavon Austin who, was drafted only one spot behind his wonderlic score.  Likely as high as he was ever going to go.

 

Obviously the NFL doesn't care much.

 

 

I wasn't aware, from your post, that the students prepared for the test at all.

Technically (at least as I understand it) you're not supposed to prepare for an IQ test in the first place. But you'd know more about this than I.

[ZachEY]

I wasn't aware, from your post, that the students prepared for the test at all.

Technically (at least as I understand it) you're not supposed to prepare for an IQ test in the first place. But you'd know more about this than I.

 

You can't really prepare for an IQ test.  It's novel information.  It's a measure of verbal and visual/spatial skills, as opposed to academic ability/content.

[Sperm Edwards]

You can't really prepare for an IQ test.  It's novel information.  It's a measure of verbal and visual/spatial skills, as opposed to academic ability/content.

 

But some of an IQ test is that as well, as much as it strives to do otherwise. For example, there are a bunch of algebra questions on the Wonderlic, as I recall seeing from samples. A person can definitely get better at that by practicing.  If it was an innate skill that you either have or you don't, they wouldn't spend so much time teaching it to students.  There are also vocabulary questions (word A is a synonym/antonym/unrelated to word B). That is also knowledge rather than innate intelligence. It is assumed that by these guys' ages that they would know this stuff cold and therefore testing how they use it is testing intelligence. But it isn't really, because that's just an assumption.

 

Some IQ tests are - and again, I'm not a psych guy and don't have your exposure to this stuff - and they include puzzles, spatial awareness, memory, and logic problems.  But I've seen those more in kids' IQ tests. The adults' IQ tests - specifically the Wonderlic that the NFL players take - don't have those.  Or maybe they do but I've never seen it.  Question 17 is never "Arrange these puzzle pieces together. You have 2 minutes."  Or showing them 3 objects on a page and then showing them 8 objects on the next page and asking them to pick which ones were the 3 on the prior one. 

 

Sample questions I've seen are a lot of algebra, reducing fractions, and some math logic problems. Also vocabulary/analogy stuff like I mentioned above, which are really only measuring intelligence if one is starting with the premise that everyone knows what the words mean to begin with.  But since that's not the case, knowledge is being tested just as much as are reasoning/analysis skills.

 

It's also my understanding that, at least for kids, they throw the results in the garbage if the kid has taken the same type of test within the past certain number of months. Presumably they do this because taking one prior is seen as an advantage (i.e. a practice test, or preparation).

[Lizard King]

I'm a firm believer in contrarianism ....I see it work far too much to be coincidental- and when the entire sample of executives has Geno as the worst quarterback in the league, it's a good sign.

[ZachEY]

But some of an IQ test is that as well, as much as it strives to do otherwise. For example, there are a bunch of algebra questions on the Wonderlic, as I recall seeing from samples. A person can definitely get better at that by practicing.  If it was an innate skill that you either have or you don't, they wouldn't spend so much time teaching it to students.  There are also vocabulary questions (word A is a synonym/antonym/unrelated to word B). That is also knowledge rather than innate intelligence. It is assumed that by these guys' ages that they would know this stuff cold and therefore testing how they use it is testing intelligence. But it isn't really, because that's just an assumption.

 

You're right that "some IQ tests" are that as well.  But, the argument I'm making is based on the industry standard IQ test, and pretty much one of four that hold any weight in the field.  The Wonderlic is a measure of intelligence, but it is NOT an IQ test in the sense that it does not map or measure the principles of intelligence as developed by Cattell (what that means is another conversation but he's pretty much the person who formulated our understanding of intelligence.)  So, the Wonderlic is something that is given by employers as a measure of intelligence, which has some correlation to IQ, but is far from a true measure of it.  FWIW, 20 on a wonderlic is considered average.

 

Even on the standard IQ tests, there is some word knowledge and information knowledge, but these are not things that are necessarily taught in school, but more things you would be exposed to.  Which, brings up some questions of cultural sensitivity of the tests, of course.  But, there is no high level math.  In fact, the only math that does exist is basic word problems which are used to access your processing speed (SANCHEZ!!!!) and memory more than your arithmetic ability.

 

Some IQ tests are - and again, I'm not a psych guy and don't have your exposure to this stuff - and they include puzzles, spatial awareness, memory, and logic problems.  But I've seen those more in kids' IQ tests. The adults' IQ tests - specifically the Wonderlic that the NFL players take - don't have those.  Or maybe they do but I've never seen it.  Question 17 is never "Arrange these puzzle pieces together. You have 2 minutes."  Or showing them 3 objects on a page and then showing them 8 objects on the next page and asking them to pick which ones were the 3 on the prior one. 

 

True IQ tests measure, as I mentioned above, visual/spatial and verbal skills, but also speed of processing and memory.  The reason you see this more in kids IQ test is because you see kids given actual IQ tests and adults given a much simpler, much quicker test that as I mention above, has some correlation to IQ as opposed to being a true IQ test.  Actual adult IQ tests, the ones that are given to college students looking for extra time or psychiatric inpatients looking for housing placement, are essentially the same as the child ones you're speaking of, just more age appropriate.  

 

To your original point then, you can prepare a person for a test like the Wonderlic, but it would take months and months.  Because there are alegra questions, maybe 2-3, how long do you think it would take to teach Tavon Austin basic algebra, all that for under %5 of the test?

 

Sample questions I've seen are a lot of algebra, reducing fractions, and some math logic problems. Also vocabulary/analogy stuff like I mentioned above, which are really only measuring intelligence if one is starting with the premise that everyone knows what the words mean to begin with.  But since that's not the case, knowledge is being tested just as much as are reasoning/analysis skills.

 

Vocab has been determined to not be merely academic.  There's more to vocab than you learn in school.  Again, this bears some questions of cultural sensitivity, but those questions will likely never be solved.

 

It's also my understanding that, at least for kids, they throw the results in the garbage if the kid has taken the same type of test within the past certain number of months. Presumably they do this because taking one prior is seen as an advantage (i.e. a practice test, or preparation).

 

This is true, but the reasoning behind this is more so because if you give a kid a standardized IQ test within a few years, it's likely that he's taking the exact same test.  So he's seeing identical questions, not just similar ones.

 

See bold.  But tl;dr version is:

 

1) The Wonderlic isn't an actual IQ test.

2) The child versions you're thinking of are.

3) They make adult versions of the child versions you're thinking of.

[jack48]

"We're not playing yet -- we're not in the stadium yet, people aren't in the stands -- but Geno is a strongly improved player at this point," quarterbacks coach David Lee said.

 

This is very heartening to hear. I never heard anyone say that about Mark Sanchez. All we ever heard is how hard he worked and he knew the playbook backwards.

....but not forwards

[Jetsfan80]

Cimini must have read Max's "Positivity Only" thread and was inspired.

[Sperm Edwards]

See bold.  But tl;dr version is:

 

1) The Wonderlic isn't an actual IQ test.

2) The child versions you're thinking of are.

3) They make adult versions of the child versions you're thinking of.

 

Understood.

 

I still think taking a bunch of practice Wonderlic tests will yield a better score. Even if they don't necessarily learn a thing, they'd at least learn to skip onto the next (fast + easy) question.

 

More to the point, as easy as some of these questions are, I'd wager a high percentage of players who scored super-poorly never actually answered every question.  Even obviously smarter individuals who merely scored in the 20s, like Peyton Manning, I bet got hung up on 1 or 2 questions that (in a timed exam) he would have been better off skipping for now and coming back to after answering all the easy ones that can be answered in 2-10 seconds.

They're not all multiple choice, so if you have under 30 seconds left and it's only enough time to just fill in "B" for the remaining questions you never got to, you'd end up leaving fill in the blank questions with no answers at all.  And they could be really, really simple ones like "If red is to apple, then yellow is to _____." Even a 7-scorer like Austin would likely stand a good chance of answering that correctly. Better chance than he has of guessing a 5-choice multiple choice question right. But he has a zero chance of answering it correctly if it's question #49 and he never got that far.  

 

Taking practice Wonderlic tests, I believe, could help immensely in this regard at a minimum, and it has nothing to do with a crash course in fractions, vocabulary/word roots, or algebra-based word problems. Because it's a timed exam (where one has less than 15 seconds to answer each question), it's a test in test-taking not just a test of intelligence.

[jgb]

I'm a firm believer in contrarianism ....I see it work far too much to be coincidental- and when the entire sample of executives has Geno as the worst quarterback in the league, it's a good sign.

 

not for nothing but that same group of guys also think tebow is not an nfl qb