Kleckineau Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 For 2 primary reasons: 1. The most successful teams in the NFL don't spend big on free agent corners, they draft and develop their own; 2. We already used a top 10 pick at CB in the draft the previous season, and also had Kyle Wilson, a late 1st rounder, already on the roster. Even so, it was reported that the Jets did look into Vontae Davis, but he stuck with the Colts. Spending big money on an overrated CB like DRC or Munnerlyn, overpaying Revis or bringing in a zone corner like Verner were not optimal choices. We have built up our DL to prepare for bad secondary play, and as that is Rex's expertise, it's up to him to figure it out. Patriots would disagree with that statement no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 Didn't he play outside exclusively at Boise as well? Kind of weird that his career path so far has been nickel. He got here at the height of our corner play. He wasn't going to beat out Cro or Revis. Cover the slot by default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Patriots would disagree with that statement no? And the Broncos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Patriots would disagree with that statement no? And the Broncos. What I should have said was "Spend big on CB and have it pay off." A windfall of cap space and the onus to win now led to those decisions. We had the cap space but not the "1 player away from a title" stars in our eyes. The teams that win titles have by and large drafted and developed their own corners. I believe the Woodson example in Green Bay someone else mentioned was the lone recent instance where that was not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleckineau Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 And the Broncos. Good point and the Seahawks (pretty successful team) also gave Sherman his free agent price a year early to keep him from bolting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Revis was never coming back here- you can argue that we could/should have brought in another CB in free agency though. If it fails Idzik gets the blame for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 The teams that win titles have by and large drafted and developed their own corners. Are you really serious with this nonsense? Do teams that win titles sign free agent WRs, or did Idzik damn us to another 45 years of futility? That would suck. The fact is that teams that win titles do it with a mix of players thru the draft and free agency. They build thru the draft, and fill the gaps thru free agency. Sometimes that gap is a pass rusher, sometimes it's a RB, sometimes it's a CB. There's no one position they specifically grow at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Are you really serious with this nonsense? Do teams that win titles sign free agent WRs, or did Idzik damn us to another 45 years of futility? That would suck. The fact is that teams that win titles do it with a mix of players thru the draft and free agency. They build thru the draft, and fill the gaps thru free agency. Sometimes that gap is a pass rusher, sometimes it's a RB, sometimes it's a CB. There's no one position they specifically grow at home. Teams that win titles have quarterbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Considering Wilson's lack of awareness/ball skills...no idea why we keep playing him at the nickel. He doesn't jump the out route like you need your nickel guys to do. Wilson hasn't made a significant play in 4 years here. So to your point- I agree he should be playing the outside. I guess he's a decent tackler. My point isn't necessarily that he *should* be playing the outside. My point was that it would be reasonable to see Wilson as a not so bad worst case scenario at #2 CB. It appears that they view him as worse than Darrin Walls and possibly Antonio Allen. He may well be worse than those guys, but if the team thought so Patterson seems an odd choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Didn't he play outside exclusively at Boise as well? Kind of weird that his career path so far has been nickel. Not when most of your career you've been playing with Revis and Cro. And nickel corners are extremely important this day in age. And while he's not a superstar, he's a solid player and the least of the Jets concerns. He played outside the year Revis got hurt and the Jets still were top 5 vs. the pass. Last year was the first year the Jets havent had one of the best D's against the pass since Rex has been here. I'm sure he'll find a way and if Babin or Coples can be consistent pass rush threats then everything should be fine. I'm amazed at the hysteria because McDougle is out for the year, to be honest. Who knows if he even could be a big part contributor in year 1? Most people didnt even know who he was when he was draft, myself included. This shouldnt be an end of the world injury. Milliner will be back. If the safeties are playing the way they're being reported to be playing, the D will be just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Teams that win titles have quarterbacks. Yup. Sometimes they draft them, sometimes they sign them as free agents, and sometimes they trade for them, just like any other position on their championship team. Like cornerback! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I like the competition aspect for sure- only concern is Winters was brutal last season(think Vlad actually graded out better). Aboushi was unplayable after the preseason he had last year...it just seems like a total question mark still. If it's a competition between 2 guys who both stink, you need to bring in a vet. Winters was a 3rd round small school prospect. He shouldnt have even started last year. But he did and was terrible, not a shocker by any means, and it was good experience. Its being reported he's playing much better. He looked good vs. the Colts and they were sending the house, every play. Its not crazy to think he'll improve. I dont really see this big hoopla about the OL you're making. It should be fine. The right side has 2 guys who played on SB winning teams. They were good enough for them but now that they're Jets they suck? Even if Winters doesnt improve, 1 player shouldnt break the entire line. Plus, if Geno improves and the new weapons do they're job, that should help the OL too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylekram Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 The interesting things about these arguments is the massive holes in logic that they require to be accepted. This entire concept about Idzik supposedly just sitting around picking his nose while having absolutely no interest in spending a cent in free agency requires ignoring two fairly significant realities: 1. It requires you to blatantly ignore that the Jets signed arguably the top free agents (at worst, second best) at three positions of need on their offense, the very unit that absolutely everyone agreed needed to be the focus of the Jets' offseason: WR, RB, and QB. To act as if this is not relevant means we should believe that either: had the Jets picked up one of the top-rated CBs while missing out on one of those players, these same folks wouldn't be throwing a fit about that other position now instead, or it is reasonable to expect the Jets to have rebuilt their entire team this past FA. 2. We need to pretend that the other teams in the NFL have little real interest in signing FAs, so the Jets should just be able to sign whoever the hell they want at any given time. It also assumes all players would prefer to play for the Jets over the teams they actually signed with, even if the player decided to sign with them immediately after becoming a FA (e.g., Revis). Not to mention, it's all based on the idea that the other players were all worth as much, but likely even more, money than what ultimately ended up being the top bid for them by the other 31 teams through all of FA. This all of course also assumes that if the Jets were to have outbid the team that the player ended up signing with, that team would not have made another as well. So yes, I suppose if we inexplicably accept all of this as reasonable, then I guess there's a point to be made. That's not even to mention that this thread repeatedly cites incorrectly inflated numbers about the supposed cap space the Jets currently have, while also making baseless claims about how allegedly no other team in the league has anywhere near as much space as they do. right on cue with another pointless lecture.cant believe I wasted 30 seconds reading this same ol john idzik jizz chin scrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Not when most of your career you've been playing with Revis and Cro. And nickel corners are extremely important this day in age. And while he's not a superstar, he's a solid player and the least of the Jets concerns. He played outside the year Revis got hurt and the Jets still were top 5 vs. the pass. Last year was the first year the Jets havent had one of the best D's against the pass since Rex has been here. I'm sure he'll find a way and if Babin or Coples can be consistent pass rush threats then everything should be fine. I'm amazed at the hysteria because McDougle is out for the year, to be honest. Who knows if he even could be a big part contributor in year 1? Most people didnt even know who he was when he was draft, myself included. This shouldnt be an end of the world injury. Milliner will be back. If the safeties are playing the way they're being reported to be playing, the D will be just fine. Me too. These guys don't really care about losing a year of development for our young corner though... this is all about wanting to dump on Idzik for not spending all of the cap on free agents. Losing a depth CB is right in their agenda wheelhouse. I'm looking forward to seeing if Patterson can carve out a useful role. At the end of the day, I completely believe that cornerbacks have been mostly neutered by the rule changes. I think the only way to stop a QB from shredding your secondary, is to have constant pressure on him. Force the ball out early and you don't need $12 million CBs. This season really just became about Rex and his front 7. I feel pretty good about it, given the players we have on that DL, Rex's history as DL coach, and Dunbar. That's a pretty nice collection of player / coach talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Are you really serious with this nonsense? Do teams that win titles sign free agent WRs, or did Idzik damn us to another 45 years of futility? That would suck. The fact is that teams that win titles do it with a mix of players thru the draft and free agency. They build thru the draft, and fill the gaps thru free agency. Sometimes that gap is a pass rusher, sometimes it's a RB, sometimes it's a CB. There's no one position they specifically grow at home. We just watched a team win a Super Bowl in large part due to an entirely homegrown secondary; their starting corners were selected in rounds 5 and 6. Yet we're surprised that Idzik, who came to us from that organization, chooses to draft rather than spend on corners? Yes, teams operate on both the draft and FA's. But Seattle values the draft much higher than many choose to see. They spent a little to get their TE (Miller), acquired Harvin, and signed 2 players on the cheap at DT and OLB. The rest of their starters came out of the draft. Much like Seattle, we traded for a RB (they traded for a bruiser in Lynch, we traded for a bruiser in Ivory), signed a few others, and are going with the draft for the rest of our talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Me too. These guys don't really care about losing a year of development for our young corner though... this is all about wanting to dump on Idzik for not spending all of the cap on free agents. Losing a depth CB is right in their agenda wheelhouse. I'm looking forward to seeing if Patterson can carve out a useful role. At the end of the day, I completely believe that cornerbacks have been mostly neutered by the rule changes. I think the only way to stop a QB from shredding your secondary, is to have constant pressure on him. Force the ball out early and you don't need $12 million CBs. This season really just became about Rex and his front 7. I feel pretty good about it, given the players we have on that DL, Rex's history as DL coach, and Dunbar. That's a pretty nice collection of player / coach talent. Patterson has been a good player in the league when healthy. I dont think you can write him off based on a couple of preseason drives, granted he looked terrible. I'm anxious to see how he responds. You dont stick around the league as long as he has if you cant play at all (like it looked vs. the Colts). This year has always been about 2 things, the front 7 and Geno Smith. McDougle getting injured doesnt change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Patterson has been a good player in the league when healthy. I dont think you can write him off based on a couple of preseason drives, granted he looked terrible. I'm anxious to see how he responds. You dont stick around the league as long as he has if you cant play at all (like it looked vs. the Colts). This year has always been about 2 things, the front 7 and Geno Smith. McDougle getting injured doesnt change that. I'm not writing him off, it's preseason week 1. He had a bad showing. He's here for a reason, I'll let it play out. Bold is absolute truth. McDougle is a guy I just wanted to see get reps. He's intriguing to me, but he'll be back next year and at least he got through most of camp this year. So he won't be starting next year like a 2nd year rook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 If you really want to simplify it if we do not get improved QB play and less turnovers this season is going nowhere. The strength of this defense up front has to step up and cover the secondary. People have short memories that our secondary last year was mediocre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Kyle Wilson has 3 career interceptions and a total of 20 return yards off of those picks. He's not a good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Kyle Wilson has 3 career interceptions and a total of 20 return yards off of those picks. He's not a good player. If you look at the INT's around the league, not too many come by the way of nickel/slot corners. Kyle's a good player, not great. He plays an important role on the defense and he plays it well. Not everyone is a pro-bowler. Role players are important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 If you look at the INT's around the league, not too many come by the way of nickel/slot corners. Kyle's a good player, not great. He plays an important role on the defense and he plays it well. Not everyone is a pro-bowler. Role players are important. He does nothing well. I don't know what you are watching but Wilson is not a good player. He has zero ball skills for a position that requires it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 For 2 primary reasons: 1. The most successful teams in the NFL don't spend big on free agent corners, they draft and develop their own; 2. We already used a top 10 pick at CB in the draft the previous season, and also had Kyle Wilson, a late 1st rounder, already on the roster. Even so, it was reported that the Jets did look into Vontae Davis, but he stuck with the Colts. Spending big money on an overrated CB like DRC or Munnerlyn, overpaying Revis or bringing in a zone corner like Verner were not optimal choices. We have built up our DL to prepare for bad secondary play, and as that is Rex's expertise, it's up to him to figure it out. I agree with everything you've stated except the Revis part. No one is overpaying for Revis. Revis is worth the money that he gets thats the difference between him and a guy who is overrated such as a DRC. Not that we should have gone after Revis, but Revis is worth 12 million a year because he shuts down every receiver no matter the name. If you're running a scheme that requires more of a zone-type corner or running a defense with safeties constantly over the top then I totally understand not seeking his services, but if you're just putting a CB on the opposing teams top receiver, following him all over the field then there's simply no better CB in the league STILL than Revis. Revis is worth 12 million dollars, NE isn't overpaying him if they use him to the best of his ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 He does nothing well. I don't know what you are watching but Wilson is not a good player. He has zero ball skills for a position that requires it. Boring redundant conversation that I don't feel like arguing about again...shouldn't have took the bait. Agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Boring redundant conversation that I don't feel like arguing about again...shouldn't have took the bait. Agree to disagree. Guys that cant cover well(or have the tendency to get burnt by guessing/overplaying) can usually make up for it by having a nose for the football...Wilson just doesnt do either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Didn't he play outside exclusively at Boise as well? Kind of weird that his career path so far has been nickel. Yes - when you never have a vague clue of where the ball is ... being closer to one sideline would help out. But that might simply upgrade him to horsesh*t from horrible. We're going to need more help than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Guys that cant cover well(or have the tendency to get burnt by guessing/overplaying) can usually make up for it by having a nose for the football...Wilson just doesnt do either. He is terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Kyle Wilson has no ball skills awareness - bad attributes to have in a CB- hah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Kyle Wilson has no ball skills awareness - bad attributes to have in a CB- hah He runs like he's on an electric football board. It takes him like 20 minutes to turn around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrunder Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I am not sure why everyone is so bent out of shape over the corners. Rex has shown the ability to make Filet Mignon out of minced meat, we are fine as long as Rex is running the D. He has a serious weapon at his disposal in the D line, and he will scheme around our CB weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I am not sure why everyone is so bent out of shape over the corners. Rex has shown the ability to make Filet Mignon out of minced meat, we are fine as long as Rex is running the D. He has a serious weapon at his disposal in the D line, and he will scheme around our CB weakness. Have you ever actually eaten a filet mignon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Kyle Wilson has no ball skills awareness - bad attributes to have in a CB- hah Also bad attributes for an aspiring JN mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor99 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Have you ever actually eaten a filet mignon? We all know you're a 'lil smoky kind of guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Mostro Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Have you ever actually eaten a filet mignon? Wild or farmed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Have you ever actually eaten a filet mignon? Have you though? You strike me as someone who turned vegan for a girlfriend, and after she left you just kept with it out of habit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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