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Now Milliner goes down!!!

pointman

By pointman
in NY Jets Forum

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ZachEY

ZachEY

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Just out of curiosity, do you guys really think this team as currently constructed were real contenders to win the SB bowl this season? I Before or after these injuries, I thought we had a puncher's chance at a wildcard spot and we had to hope we get hot in the playoffs. But in any scenario, we weren't winning sh*t unless Geno took a major step forward and this shabby O-line performed better. That's still the case now. Geno is the major question mark on this team and this season is all about figuring out if he's capable of being a franchise qb.

 

Seriously look at the teams during Rex's entire tenure here and two things become obvious. 1) He can field a top 5/10 defense each season with a lot of moving parts. Our pass defense was bad last year and we were really bad at forcing turnovers and we still managed to overachieve in wins at the end of the day with a turnover happy QB. Our pass defense is probably going to be bad again this year, but our run defense is still built to be very good. 2) Except for one year, the Jets field bottom ten offenses.consistently.

 

Whether we go anywhere as a franchise still hinders on if our offense can ever get its sh*t together. These two injuries suck hard and I'm disappointed, but keep in mind that we've already fielded top 3-5 defenses before and still haven't won anything.

 

No.  F - this.  Impatience and Impulsivity are the keys to success in the NFL.

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ZachEY

ZachEY

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"Do you really think this is a Super Bowl team?"

Every year we say this

 

And?

 

Unfortunately we can't just decide that this is the year we'll compete for the Super Bowl.  Like everything else in life, doing things the right way takes time.

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Matt39

Matt39

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And?

 

Unfortunately we can't just decide that this is the year we'll compete for the Super Bowl.  Like everything else in life, doing things the right way takes time.

 

With this draft and the state of the offensive line, I can firmly say there are a lot of questions whether this is the right way or not. 

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Larz

Larz

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On the bright side, Milliner missing the next few weeks means both Walls and Lankster get more time. With McDougle out for the season, it's needed, Walls especially. He has a ton of upside and is a FO/PFF darling.

 

no, I heard that if you have an injury in August, it becomes rule 471-6A, which means you can only field 10 players during regular season games on defense, it's basically like a power play

 

sucks, but rex can coach his ass off on defense, so we're good

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Jets Voice of Reason

Jets Voice of Reason

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Ha. Having non terrible players as starters would be a start. Winters can't play, own up to it and move on.

 

Winters. Aboushi. Patterson. At the end of the day, who cares? It's not a QB. The Broncos and Patriots take risks on players because they have ancient HOF qbs and this is their window before Manning or Brady are washed up or retire. If we had a stud QB I say go all in and break that cap space. But we don't. All we have is hope based on a desperate need for a super bowl and hopeful flashes from Geno in games where we were already eliminated from the playoffs.

 

If we had Revis, DRC, Verner, and Davis as our corners we still won't win sh*t unless Geno is a legit qb. We don't know that. He can easily lead the league in turnovers. You guys are acting as if cap space and flexibility just expires at the end of the year if we don't use it and we're just being cheap for the sake of being cheap. News flash, we've tried going all-in on a questionable QB and it turned out to be a decision that handicaps our franchise for years.

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Jets Voice of Reason

Jets Voice of Reason

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I think eventually we'll be fine in the secondary. Amaro looking like Doug Jolley and the offensive line being a mess....is a way bigger concern. There's no excuse for us not coming away with one of the bigger WR's. Ditto guard.

 

This I think is a more legitimate complaint. This draft was stupid deep at WR and we came away with two guys with limited upside and a raw project late in the draft.

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Matt39

Matt39

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Winters. Aboushi. Patterson. At the end of the day, who cares? It's not a QB. The Broncos and Patriots take risks on players because they have ancient HOF qbs and this is their window before Manning or Brady are washed up or retire. If we had a stud QB I say go all in and break that cap space. But we don't. All we have is hope based on a desperate need for a super bowl and hopeful flashes from Geno in games where we were already eliminated from the playoffs.

 

If we had Revis, DRC, Verner, and Davis as our corners we still won't win sh*t unless Geno is a legit qb. We don't know that. He can easily lead the league in turnovers. You guys are acting as if cap space and flexibility just expires at the end of the year if we don't use it and we're just being cheap for the sake of being cheap. News flash, we've tried going all-in on a questionable QB and it turned out to be a decision that handicaps our franchise for years.

 

"If we had a stud QB"

 

We don't. Having Brian Winters and Oday Aboushi playing guard isn't the answer. There are ways to win in this league without having a stud QB...and its by controlling the clock via the run, not turning the ball over and forcing turnovers. This is how we won in 09/10. 

 

Patterson is a scrub. Brian Winters is a scrub...at the end of the day, with the current cap space and the amount of picks we just ahd...there's no excuse for them being starters, regardless of who's playing QB.

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Jets Voice of Reason

Jets Voice of Reason

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"If we had a stud QB"

 

We don't. Having Brian Winters and Oday Aboushi playing guard isn't the answer. There are ways to win in this league without having a stud QB...and its by controlling the clock via the run, not turning the ball over and forcing turnovers. This is how we won in 09/10. 

 

Patterson is a scrub. Brian Winters is a scrub...at the end of the day, with the current cap space and the amount of picks we just ahd...there's no excuse for them being starters, regardless of who's playing QB.

 

Tampa Bay and Baltimore. Great. So you're suggesting that our paradigm should continue to be emulating two defensive teams out of the last like 20 years or so to try to win without a franchise QB before they even implemented all the rule changes to make passing easier and defending against the pass harder? Seattle I guess you can argue, but Russell Wilson isn't a scrub.

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Matt39

Matt39

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Tampa Bay and Baltimore. Great. So you're suggesting that our paradigm should continue to be emulating two defensive teams out of the last like 20 years or so to try to win without a franchise QB before they even implemented all the rule changes to make passing easier and defending against the pass harder? Seattle I guess you can argue, but Russell Wilson isn't a scrub.

 

You're not counter arguing what I'm saying. We all realize the importance of the QB position(still think Geno can be good enough) but that doesn't give Idzik a pass for having downright terrible starters at important positions. Long term success obviously is QB dependent, but keeping the team competitive year to year involves having the other pieces in place. We can win games with Geno Smith. It's going to be pretty difficult to win with a porous oline and Dolphins/Browns castoffs in the secondary.

 

If its only about having a franchise QB..what the hell are we paying Idzik for?

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Jets Voice of Reason

Jets Voice of Reason

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You're not counter arguing what I'm saying. We all realize the importance of the QB position(still think Geno can be good enough) but that doesn't give Idzik a pass for having downright terrible starters at important positions. Long term success obviously is QB dependent, but keeping the team competitive involves having the other pieces in place. We can win games with Geno Smith. It's going to be pretty difficult to win with a porous oline and Dolphins/Browns castoffs in the secondary.

 

If its only about having a franchise QB..what the hell are we paying Idzik for?

 

I don't disagree. I think our guard situation and our corners are pretty subpar overall. I think Brick and Mangold are declining in production. Our linebackers are old and slow. But to me, when you start listing all our holes, in addition the WR hole they tried filling with Decker, they weren't doing it all in one year in a way that works for us long-term.

 

I would've liked them to land Davis, but they tried and didn't manage to sign him. DRC has an inconsistent history and is a risky long-term signing. Revis is a short-term rental and wouldn't be a long-term solution. I don't know why they didn't go after Verner.  Is Captain munnerlyn a big upgrade? I don't know why they didn't try to upgrade the guard position outside of Dozier.

 

My point still is that all of it really doesn't matter long-term or this year really if Geno doesn't pan out or we are unable to find another franchise QB.

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Matt39

Matt39

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I don't disagree. I think our guard situation and our corners are pretty subpar overall. I think Brick and Mangold are declining in production. Our linebackers are old and slow. But to me, when you start listing all our holes, in addition the WR hole they tried filling with Decker, they weren't doing it all in one year in a way that works for us long-term.

 

I would've liked them to land Davis, but they tried and didn't manage to sign him. DRC has an inconsistent history and is a risky long-term signing. Revis is a short-term rental and wouldn't be a long-term solution. I don't know why they didn't go after Verner.  Is Captain munnerlyn a big upgrade? I don't know why they didn't try to upgrade the guard position outside of Dozier.

 

My point still is that all of it really doesn't matter long-term or this year really if Geno doesn't pan out or we are unable to find another franchise QB.

 

I hear you...but doing some looking back...this Jets draft class was at best, strange. The way we all thought they'd attack it rounds 1-4 is pretty different than what they actually came away with. There were studs to be had early. I like Mcdougle and it sucks he got hurt again...but jesus that was a reach. Amaro just looks like a doof. And the Saunders pick was as bizarre as it gets, frankly.

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Jets Voice of Reason

Jets Voice of Reason

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I hear you...but doing some looking back...this Jets draft class was at best, strange. The way we all thought they'd attack it rounds 1-4 is pretty different than what they actually came away with. There were studs to be had early. I like Mcdougle and it sucks he got hurt again...but jesus that was a reach. Amaro just looks like a doof. And the Saunders pick was as bizarre as it gets, frankly.

 

Yep, I was very meh on this draft class and so far Idzik has never moved a draft pick up or down. I think that's a bit of a problem since we're going to end up cutting some draft picks and we really ended up with a really mediocre haul overall and would've rather moved up to actually land a WR. It's a slap in the face that in a draft class with Watkins, Evans, OBJ, Lee, Cooks, Montcrief, Richardson, Matthews, Benjamin, Bryant etc. we ended up with a two guys in the fourth round who have limited upsides and a raw guy in Enunwa with questionable hands. Why didn't we take a flier on a size-speed prospect or even one of the guys i mentioned. It's beyond me. As a franchise we can't scout QBs, never take WRs high, can't draft TEs, and have typically neglected safeties and guards. I'm thinking Bradshaw has got to be a common link in a lot of these issues...

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Jolot

Jolot

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Yep, I was very meh on this draft class and so far Idzik has never moved a draft pick up or down. I think that's a bit of a problem since we're going to end up cutting some draft picks and we really ended up with a really mediocre haul overall and would've rather moved up to actually land a WR. It's a slap in the face that in a draft class with Watkins, Evans, OBJ, Lee, Cooks, Montcrief, Richardson, Matthews, Benjamin, Bryant etc. we ended up with a two guys in the fourth round who have limited upsides and a raw guy in Enunwa with questionable hands. Why didn't we take a flier on a size-speed prospect or even one of the guys i mentioned. It's beyond me. As a franchise we can't scout QBs, never take WRs high, can't draft TEs, and have typically neglected safeties and guards. I'm thinking Bradshaw has got to be a common link in a lot of these issues...

some really good insight from both you guys honestly , but don't forget if we would've traded up we would've lost that bet with Mehta #priorities
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RSJ

RSJ

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Yep, I was very meh on this draft class and so far Idzik has never moved a draft pick up or down. I think that's a bit of a problem since we're going to end up cutting some draft picks and we really ended up with a really mediocre haul overall and would've rather moved up to actually land a WR. It's a slap in the face that in a draft class with Watkins, Evans, OBJ, Lee, Cooks, Montcrief, Richardson, Matthews, Benjamin, Bryant etc. we ended up with a two guys in the fourth round who have limited upsides and a raw guy in Enunwa with questionable hands. Why didn't we take a flier on a size-speed prospect or even one of the guys i mentioned. It's beyond me. As a franchise we can't scout QBs, never take WRs high, can't draft TEs, and have typically neglected safeties and guards. I'm thinking Bradshaw has got to be a common link in a lot of these issues...

 

The common link is Woody Johnson.

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Matt39

Matt39

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Yep, I was very meh on this draft class and so far Idzik has never moved a draft pick up or down. I think that's a bit of a problem since we're going to end up cutting some draft picks and we really ended up with a really mediocre haul overall and would've rather moved up to actually land a WR. It's a slap in the face that in a draft class with Watkins, Evans, OBJ, Lee, Cooks, Montcrief, Richardson, Matthews, Benjamin, Bryant etc. we ended up with a two guys in the fourth round who have limited upsides and a raw guy in Enunwa with questionable hands. Why didn't we take a flier on a size-speed prospect or even one of the guys i mentioned. It's beyond me. As a franchise we can't scout QBs, never take WRs high, can't draft TEs, and have typically neglected safeties and guards. I'm thinking Bradshaw has got to be a common link in a lot of these issues...

 

Agreed. I'll take some solace in the fact the Jets liked the kid the Cardinals grabbed in the 3rd who's apparently tearing up camp(speedy wideout). I think Pryor will be fine...but with how that first round is shaping out he better be freakin Polamaulu.

 

Benjamin was the guy I really wanted. SIze/speed freak with actual real life production. Matchup problem, can catch poorly thrown footballs, chain mover and touchdown scorer. Oh well.

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ylekram

ylekram

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The draft picks panning out does not change whether or not the strategy is correct.

 

 

The draft picks panning out is the strategy. If Idzik can't draft, he's gone. Anyone can do what he's doing...but you have to know how to draft.

the strategy wasn't the correct strategy for 2014. not in my opinion. people reference teams like the steelers and the giants. build thru the draft. great strategy, if you can pull it off. problem was that the jets had more holes than draft picks could fill. not to mention 50m in cap space to improve. a more experienced gm would have signed a competent starting guard, corner, safety, back-up qb, and wide receiver. idzik brought in 2 of the 5, with plenty of cash left over, leaving incompetent starters at the positions, and limiting his draft flexibility at the same time. this was the year to fill holes in free agency to field a competitive team. next year and years after, you can then use the draft for depth and eventual starter replacements as your primary tool for players

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T0mShane

T0mShane

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Agreed. I'll take some solace in the fact the Jets liked the kid the Cardinals grabbed in the 3rd who's apparently tearing up camp(speedy wideout). I think Pryor will be fine...but with how that first round is shaping out he better be freakin Polamaulu.

Benjamin was the guy I really wanted. SIze/speed freak with actual real life production. Matchup problem, can catch poorly thrown footballs, chain mover and touchdown scorer. Oh well.

IMO, Idzik treated the last two drafts like he was building from Ground Zero and didn't take a run at any specific player because there were needs at literally every position. I imagine that as he progresses and the roster takes a more coherent shape, he'll target players and positions with more urgency and invest his resources in spots where it's prudent at that time. Why burn picks and dollars on players when you don't even know if you have a QB yet?

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