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#1 JiF

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 09:29 AM

http://www.nj.com/je...te_a_while.html

 

 

Of all the new players on the Jets’ roster – from rookie safety Calvin Pryor to wide receiver Eric Decker to presumptive backup quarterback Michael Vick – it seems pretty clear that right tackle Breno Giacomini is the most under-the-radar guy in training camp.

A lot of that stems from him playing on the offensive line. But, also, he has remained healthy and productive throughout camp. He has given no indication that there will be a hiccup in his chemistry with right guard and vocal team leader Willie Colon, who last season worked alongside Austin Howard.

Howard’s departure to Oakland in free agency left the Jets needing a new right tackle. General manager John Idzik mined his former employer, the Seahawks, and signed Giacomini. When the Raiders and Jets open the season against each other Sept. 7 at MetLife Stadium, it will be an intriguing opportunity for both Howard and Giacomini to show how well they are fitting in on their new teams.

Establishing chemistry with teammates is important for all players new to an organization, but it is especially important for offensive linemen. Colon and Giacomini got off to a slow start in that regard, because Colon began camp on the physically unable to perform list, due to offseason knee surgery.

Colon spent just three days on the PUP list. Then he and Giacomini got to work on developing a relationship that will be critical to the Jets’ offensive success.

“We communicate really well,” Colon said. “We get each other. We look at tape of practice extra because we understand that if we’re on the same page and we’re doing things right, it all equals success. I love the guy.”

Colon said Giacomini is “a little more raw in certain aspects” than Howard was. And some of that is to be expected, as Giacomini adjusts to a completely different blocking scheme.

Seattle used primarily outside zone running plays, while the Jets do more straight-ahead, power-oriented run blocking than the Seahawks. (You can read more about the differences here.) Probably most importantly, Giacomini has to block in double teams, often with Colon, far more frequently than he had to double-team block in Seattle.

For the most part, the Jets’ coaches have liked how Giacomini is handling the transition.

“Breno’s handled it well,” said assistant offensive line coach Ron Heller. “There are some times where maybe we haven’t been specific enough (with instructions), and he resorted to some of the old technique – not necessarily technique – but philosophical thinking on how to handle things. But we point it out to him, and he goes, ‘Oh, OK, you want it this way.’ And he does that.”

In the Jets’ blocking scheme, because of the double-team blocks, “You’ve got to get to know the guy next to you, so that you’re not both coming off (the line) at the same time (during double-team blocks),” Heller said.

He added that Colon and Giacomini “look like they’ve been playing together for quite a while. It’s been good.”

There is one possible wedge in the Colon-Giacomini relationship. Colon grew up in a housing project near Yankee Stadium and is a diehard Yankees fan. He even has their logo painted on his pickup truck. Giacomini grew up near Boston and roots for the Red Sox.

“We don’t talk too much about it,” Colon said, with a smile, of their baseball rooting interests. “We try to keep a happy home.”


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#2 JiF

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 09:30 AM

http://www.nj.com/je..._stud-hood.html

 

CORTLAND, N.Y. — To the untrained eye, playing offensive line in the NFL appears to mainly involve several-second segments of vicious collisions, one after another, for the duration of a game. This is some of it, sure, at least on a basic level. But thriving as a professional offensive lineman involves delicacy, and the ability to grasp that this is, in many ways, a ballet of sorts — albeit one involving 300-pound men.

Therein lies the next step in the growth of Brian Winters, the Jets’ left guard. Last season, he sputtered as a rookie after being forced into the starting lineup in Week 5 by Vladimir Ducasse’s ineffectiveness.

Winters, a third-round draft pick who played tackle at Kent State, performed well in spots. Mostly, he looked like a rookie.

He allowed 10 sacks, the most among the league’s guards, according to Pro Football Focus. Winters was rated 77th out of 81 guards in the NFL by PFF, including 73rd as a pass blocker and 76th as a run blocker.

PFF’s grades are not gospel, of course. But it was clear Winters needed to progress.

That makes him no different than most rookie offensive linemen. His challenge now: Put Year 1 behind him. In May, he said this season “is going to be a whole different story.”He doubled down on those comments Wednesday, after the Jets’ final training camp practice at SUNY Cortland that was open to the public.

"Without a doubt, I’m 100 percent confident that’s how it’s going to be," said the 6-foot-4, 320-pound Winters. "I feel a lot more further along than last year."

Based on the 26 snaps he played in last Thursday’s preseason opener against the Colts, his coaches agree. They see him distancing himself from last year’s mistakes.

The Jets have given Oday Aboushi snaps with the first team during training camp, but mainly to rest starting right guard Willie Colon’s surgically repaired knee.

Aboushi, a second-year pro, moved from tackle to guard in the spring. He figures to be a top reserve this season. The Jets appear set with the guard combination of Winters and Colon as the starters.

For the coaches to feel better about Winters’ potential, they must see him continue to focus more on the subtlety of his position, rather than just on those vicious collisions.

"Brian had a tendency to play outside the box," said assistant offensive line coach Ron Heller, a former 12-year NFL tackle. "Against these quality defenders, you’ve got to be pretty technically sound, and then — oh, by the way — be a stud. Well, Brian was relying a lot on his stud-hood, if you will. When he would do things with good technique, he plays well. And then sometimes, he gets out of that. He gets caught in the emotion, and it almost turns into a street fight for him. The defenders take advantage of that."

Heller and head offensive line coach Mike Devlin encouraged Winters to settle his nerves and narrow his focus when presented with challenging situations in a game.

"When things get tough, instead of going rogue or something, actually concentrate more on your technique," Heller said.

To this end, Heller said Winters "did everything right" against the Colts — from his footwork to his hand placement.

"He played within the scheme real well," Heller said. "That’s the one thing that we needed him to do, and he’s really been responding well."

The curious thing about Winters last season is that he nailed his technique in drills, and at the beginning of games. Then, Heller said, "It always seemed like, at some point in the game, either he had trouble with a guy or something, and he would just go back to his primal instincts."

To be fair, Winters was in a tough spot last year, forced into the starting lineup at a completely new position. And the players on either side of him — left tackle D’Brickashaw Ferguson and center Nick Mangold — have combined to make eight Pro Bowls.

Perhaps Winters’ confidence waned at points, so his technique lagged.

"Sometimes it’s insecurity," Colon said. "He’s stuck in between two Pro Bowlers. That’s a lot in itself. I think he has to understand that you’re not always going to be the guy to make the play. You’ve got to let your mechanics and how you’re taught make the play for you. That’s all about maturity."

The Jets last season tied for the second-highest sack percentage in the NFL, 8.9 — the frequency with which their quarterbacks were sacked when attempting to pass. Some of that stemmed from rookie quarterback Geno Smith’s inexperience. Some of it also resulted from Winters occasionally forgetting the finer points of his job.

"That’s a big thing — trust your technique," said Jets head coach Rex Ryan. "But what happens sometimes, especially if you struggle or whatever, you go right back to where you were, and it’s almost like technique is out the window. So hopefully, he’s past that."


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#3 faba

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 10:02 AM

I am worried as usual about the depth and the quality of play. Hoping with an improvement with Geno will make them look better.


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#4 bitonti

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 10:05 AM

I am worried as usual about the depth and the quality of play. Hoping with an improvement with Geno will make them look better.

 

 

The only reason anyone is concerned about the OL is because of the QB. 

 

There's a list by Lance Zierlein that puts Green Bay's OL at 3rd overall. Quick can anyone name their best lineman without looking it up? (it's guard Josh Sitton). 

 

But they have worse tackles than the Jets and a second year center who has never played a snap in the NFL. 

 

In other words people rank the OLs because of the QB's. Very few sources look at the line itself without thinking about the overall efficiency of the offense.

 

 I guarantee if the packers were starting Brian Hoyer instead of Aaron Rodgers, no one would rank them 3rd overall. 

 

In short the Jets OL is not as amazing as the 2009 Faneca/Woody super unit but they are good enough to win.

 

As you note in that comment, what the team needs is improved QB play not more and better OL. 


Edited by bitonti, 15 August 2014 - 10:06 AM.

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#5 Jetsfan80

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 10:17 AM

The only reason anyone is concerned about the OL is because of the QB. 

 

There's a list by Lance Zierlein that puts Green Bay's OL at 3rd overall. Quick can anyone name their best lineman without looking it up? (it's guard Josh Sitton). 

 

But they have worse tackles than the Jets and a second year center who has never played a snap in the NFL. 

 

In other words people rank the OLs because of the QB's. Very few sources look at the line itself without thinking about the overall efficiency of the offense.

 

 I guarantee if the packers were starting Brian Hoyer instead of Aaron Rodgers, no one would rank them 3rd overall. 

 

In short the Jets OL is not as amazing as the 2009 Faneca/Woody super unit but they are good enough to win.

 

As you note in that comment, what the team needs is improved QB play not more and better OL. 

 

 

Rodgers missed 7 games last year and Eddie Lacy ran for 1,178 yards and 11 TD's, so I don't think the "it's all about the QB" argument works here.  A better way to approach it is by saying they are very good at run blocking (Ranked 5th by FootballOutsiders) but perhaps lacking in pass blocking (26th).

 

The only issue with these numbers is pass-blocking numbers tend to get skewed.  Seattle had the very worst pass-protecting line in the NFL last year on FO.  That's perhaps by virtue of the fact that Seattle handed Russell Wilson a lot of 3rd & long situations last season.  Plus they were facing a lot of very good pass rushers in the NFC West.  Likewise, Rodgers tends to hold onto the football a lot in the Packer offense.  Both QB's know they can make plays with their feet so they can better navigate those scenarios.

 

If you have a mobile QB who can extend plays (like we do) it can offset poor pass protection. 


Edited by Jetsfan80, 15 August 2014 - 10:21 AM.

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#6 peebag

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 10:19 AM

The only reason anyone is concerned about the OL is because of the QB. 

 

There's a list by Lance Zierlein that puts Green Bay's OL at 3rd overall. Quick can anyone name their best lineman without looking it up? (it's guard Josh Sitton). 

 

But they have worse tackles than the Jets and a second year center who has never played a snap in the NFL. 

 

In other words people rank the OLs because of the QB's. Very few sources look at the line itself without thinking about the overall efficiency of the offense.

 

 I guarantee if the packers were starting Brian Hoyer instead of Aaron Rodgers, no one would rank them 3rd overall. 

 

In short the Jets OL is not as amazing as the 2009 Faneca/Woody super unit but they are good enough to win.

 

As you note in that comment, what the team needs is improved QB play not more and better OL. 

 

I don't know - what I saw during the 1st preseason game did not fill me with enthusiasm about OL play....they got smoked several times.


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#7 #27TheDominator

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 10:35 AM

Rodgers missed 7 games last year and Eddie Lacy ran for 1,178 yards and 11 TD's, so I don't think the "it's all about the QB" argument works here.  A better way to approach it is by saying they are very good at run blocking (Ranked 5th by FootballOutsiders) but perhaps lacking in pass blocking (26th).

 

The only issue with these numbers is pass-blocking numbers tend to get skewed.  Seattle had the very worst pass-protecting line in the NFL last year on FO.  That's perhaps by virtue of the fact that Seattle handed Russell Wilson a lot of 3rd & long situations last season.  Plus they were facing a lot of very good pass rushers in the NFC West.  Likewise, Rodgers tends to hold onto the football a lot in the Packer offense.  Both QB's know they can make plays with their feet so they can better navigate those scenarios.

 

If you have a mobile QB who can extend plays (like we do) it can offset poor pass protection. 

 

 

I love this.  Eddie Lacy gets 1435 yards from scrimmage and 11 TDs and it is proof his OLine is worthy of #3 overall.  Chris Johnson gets 1422 yards from scrimmage and 10 TDs and it is proof he is done.  Of course Lacy got a full 101 more total yards rushing at .2 more ypc.  Massive difference!


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#8 bitonti

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 10:37 AM

Rodgers missed 7 games last year and Eddie Lacy ran for 1,178 yards and 11 TD's, so I don't think the "it's all about the QB" argument works here 

 

Last year is gone. its not the same line as last year. Starting center Evan Dietrich-Smith is on Tampa Bay. Bryan Bulaga is back after missing the entire season. BUt he's playing RT which is not where he has been playing. That's 2 of the 5 starting positions changed wholesale. Backup Don Barclay (who actually played alot last year, at multiple positions) tore his ACL. 

 

Are they a pretty good line? Sure. Are they top 3? Hell no.

 

Could they be top 3 in the future if it all comes together? Maybe. 

 

They don't have a Joe Thomas or a Jason Peters. They don't have a Mike Iupati and Joe Staley. Heck they don't even have a Brick or Mangold. The only reason anyone thinks that line is awesome is because of the skills and the offensive system. 


Edited by bitonti, 15 August 2014 - 10:38 AM.

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#9 Jetsfan80

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 10:39 AM

I love this.  Eddie Lacy gets 1435 yards from scrimmage and 11 TDs and it is proof his OLine is worthy of #3 overall.  Chris Johnson gets 1422 yards from scrimmage and 10 TDs and it is proof he is done.  Of course Lacy got a full 101 more total yards rushing at .2 more ypc.  Massive difference!

 

Yeah true.  One of several reasons Eddie Lacy won't be on any of my fantasy teams....


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#10 faba

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 10:39 AM

First rankings of offensive line I pay no attention to- i go by what I can tell as amateur that can be- the Jets were average last year-Brick and mangold both not playing as good as they once were.


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#11 Jetsfan80

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 10:41 AM

First rankings of offensive line I pay no attention to- i go by what I can tell as amateur that can be- the Jets were average last year-Brick and mangold both not playing as good as they once were.

 

I'd like to see if they can get back to where they were when they're not having to make up for growing pains of a rookie LG....


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#12 bitonti

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 10:48 AM

this is a good thread for this link

 

http://grantland.com...geoff-schwartz/

 

About how LeCharles Bentley has started an offensive line school (and Larry Warford's success was in part due to how he worked there in the time between the draft and his rookie season). 

 

Willie Colon is mentioned as working with Bentley this offseason. 


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#13 Jetsfan80

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 11:08 AM

this is a good thread for this link

 

http://grantland.com...geoff-schwartz/

 

About how LeCharles Bentley has started an offensive line school (and Larry Warford's success was in part due to how he worked there in the time between the draft and his rookie season). 

 

Willie Colon is mentioned as working with Bentley this offseason. 

 

Good read.  We'll see if it pays off for Colon.


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#14 JiF

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 12:45 PM

The only reason anyone is concerned about the OL is because of the QB. 

 

There's a list by Lance Zierlein that puts Green Bay's OL at 3rd overall. Quick can anyone name their best lineman without looking it up? (it's guard Josh Sitton). 

 

But they have worse tackles than the Jets and a second year center who has never played a snap in the NFL. 

 

In other words people rank the OLs because of the QB's. Very few sources look at the line itself without thinking about the overall efficiency of the offense.

 

 I guarantee if the packers were starting Brian Hoyer instead of Aaron Rodgers, no one would rank them 3rd overall. 

 

In short the Jets OL is not as amazing as the 2009 Faneca/Woody super unit but they are good enough to win.

 

As you note in that comment, what the team needs is improved QB play not more and better OL. 

 

Meh, we had the best line in the league with Sanchez, so its not completely dependent on your QB.  That said, it certainly helps, a lot.  Thats why I think we're going to see better line play because I expect Geno to get much better.  Factor in some continuity, granted Breno is new...but reports are the Winters is playing much better, Colon is solid, Breno was good enough for the Seahawks and then you have 2 probowlers.  Couple that with another year in the system, better weaponz and I dont think the line will be an issue at all.


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#15 JiF

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 12:50 PM

this is a good thread for this link

 

http://grantland.com...geoff-schwartz/

 

About how LeCharles Bentley has started an offensive line school (and Larry Warford's success was in part due to how he worked there in the time between the draft and his rookie season). 

 

Willie Colon is mentioned as working with Bentley this offseason. 

 

Thanks for posting, its nice to see that at 31 Colon is still trying to get better.  Big fan of that guy.  He's nasty, a leader and seems to love being a Jet.


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#16 bitonti

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 01:03 PM

Rodgers missed 7 games last year 

 

so I thought about this some more and the fact that Rodgers got hurt doesn't exactly work in the GB's line favor. 


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#17 Jetsfan80

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 01:05 PM

so I thought about this some more and the fact that Rodgers got hurt doesn't exactly work in the GB's line favor. 

 

Right, and that's a valid reason not to like their o-line.  But basing the media's perception of an o-line purely on the QB is simply untrue. 


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#18 Larz

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 09:24 PM

they better get colon, winters and giacomini ironed out

 

3rd and 16 is tough sledding for any offense

 

the penalties tonight were absurd.  rex has to bench some guys to send a message


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#19 dbatesman

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 09:29 PM

they better get colon, winters and giacomini ironed out
 
3rd and 16 is tough sledding for any offense
 
the penalties tonight were absurd.  rex has to bench some guys to send a message


The penalties didn't bother me. The Bengals took a swing at one of ours, so
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#20 Matt39

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 09:35 PM

Breno was a penalty machine in Seattle. Might as well sign Richie for entertainment purposes.
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#21 peebag

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 10:27 PM

Breno was a penalty machine in Seattle. Might as well sign Richie for entertainment purposes.

 

F*ck no - get real.


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