What will it take for Izdick to bring in some CB replacements?

[kay_gee]

Are you denying that Wrecks and Izdick are comedy gold, cagey?

you read me like a well loved novel, slats.

[Lil Bit Special]

what will it take for people to stop trying to convince us they're clever/unhappy/disgruntled by using alternate spellings of names?

 

 

Never gay_gee!

 

Hahahahaha...  Im so clever.

[The Crusher]

what will it take for people to stop trying to convince us they're clever/unhappy/disgruntled by using alternate spellings of names?

Word Casey.

- The Flusher

[jgb]

idzik knows the jets aren't making the playoffs this year and didn't want to spend money on retreads. cant really blame him there. if he knew what he knew now yes he would probably have gotten one of those guys to field a respectable defense but this isn't a team that is a piece or two from contention. even if--a big if--geno is the guy, he is going to still be very rough around the edges this year. best case scenario he is still in bottom half of the league. the most reasonable optimistic expectation is he puts it all together for a few games and shows that with more seasoning he can be the type of qb to put the team on his back. but he won't be that way this year and this roster wasn't going anywhere without a qb like that. a couple more years of adding talent, maybe a slightly above-average qb could get it done. but the 2014 jets would need peyton manning to be a team anyone would be worried about this season.

[Bleedin Green]

 

It's too late now.

 

 

Wait are you arguing that DRC isn't a GIANT upgrade over what the jets have starting at CB right now opposite Milliner, if Milliner even plays?

 

 

Giant upgrade, huh?  I see what you did there. 

 

To be clear though, I'll freely admit that all else being equal (although it's clearly not), DRC would most likely be a better player for the Jets this season than Patterson.  That said, the guy was getting crapped all over around these parts back when the Jets brought him in for a visit during FA, and yet now suddenly people are carrying on as if he's some sort of elite top level talent.  He is now what he was then, an alright #2 CB with quite a list of his own problems.

 

That doesn't change that he's probably better than what the Jets currently have as their #2, but it also doesn't change how full of crap some people around here are in completely changing their tune any time they are desperate to justify a position.  The bottom line is that nobody ever came close to talking so highly about DRC as some constantly are now that it fits an anti-Jets narrative.

[Jetsfan80]

I'm a bit confused how the Broncos gave up 40 pts a game last year and all of a sudden Dominic Ridgers Cromartie is now a great player?

 

Yeah I don't get the obsession with this guy either.  Dude is now on his 4th team.  Did the previous three simply make a mistake by letting him go?

 

When DRC was in Arizona from 2008-10 their D was ranked 28th, 14th and 30th in pts allowed and 19th, 20th and 29th in yards allowed, respectively.  Since he left, from 2011-13 they were ranked 17th, 17th and 7th in pts allowed and 18th, 12th and 6th in yards allowed.  

 

After 2010 he was jettisoned for Kevin Kolb and a 2nd rounder.  Yes, Kevin Kolb.

 

These are the "highlights" of his tenure in Philly from 2011-12:  0 interceptions in 2011.  Fined 21K for a hit on Byron Leftwich in the 2012 preseason.  As a result he only earned a 1-year deal with Denver. 

 

The Broncos, after getting torched defensively last season, decided not to give him a new deal.  DRC had 3 interceptions last season, against the following QB's:  Eli Manning, Kirk Cousins, Matt Schaub. 

 

Yeah, I don't know what the Giants saw in this guy to hand him a 5-year deal, but I'm glad he's on the other New York team.

[Il Mostro]

I'm a bit confused how the Broncos gave up 40 pts a game last year and all of a sudden Dominic Ridgers Cromartie is now a great player?

 

And in a contract year to boot.  Elite!

[unbanmadmike1]

Giant upgrade, huh?  I see what you did there. 

 

To be clear though, I'll freely admit that all else being equal (although it's clearly not), DRC would most likely be a better player for the Jets this season than Patterson.  That said, the guy was getting crapped all over around these parts back when the Jets brought him in for a visit during FA, and yet now suddenly people are carrying on as if he's some sort of elite top level talent.  He is now what he was then, an alright #2 CB with quite a list of his own problems.

 

That doesn't change that he's probably better than what the Jets currently have as their #2, but it also doesn't change how full of crap some people around here are in completely changing their tune any time they are desperate to justify a position.  The bottom line is that nobody ever came close to talking so highly about DRC as some constantly are now that it fits an anti-Jets narrative.

I never said DRC was a great player. Everyone with a brain knows that the CB starting opposite Milliner should be Revis, not DRC. But since the utter incompetence and cowardice that is baked in the cake when you're talking about the John Idzik/Woody Johnson Jets has to be taken into account that was never happening and they needed to do something to shore up the position. They didn't. 

[Jetsfan80]

 Everyone with a brain knows that the CB starting opposite Milliner should be Revis, not DRC.

 

Sure.  Spending $12M on a 1-year rental on a guy who hasn't been the same since 2009 and a torn ACL.  That would have fixed us.

[Il Mostro]

Once other GM's see what they have in younger CB's, don't be surprised if the Jets trade for an experienced guy as a short-term fix.

[unbanmadmike1]

Sure.  Spending $12M on a 1-year rental on a guy who hasn't been the same since 2009 and a torn ACL.  That would have fixed us.

What do you mean by fixed? Made them a super bowl team? No. Made them exponentially more competitive and probably at worst a 9 win team? Definitely. Given them actual good defensive personal and not a good DL and Rex's empty statements? Definitely. But it's all good, since they are 30 million under the cap now which is obviously much preferable to being 18 under and having the best CB in the NFL on your team. Because it's the mission of this front office to make the defense as unwatchable and pathetic as the offense was last year!

[Bleedin Green]

I never said DRC was a great player. Everyone with a brain knows that the CB starting opposite Milliner should be Revis, not DRC. But since the utter incompetence and cowardice that is baked in the cake when you're talking about the John Idzik/Woody Johnson Jets has to be taken into account that was never happening and they needed to do something to shore up the position. They didn't. 

 

I never said you did, but I was simply responding to your question to me about my prior statement, which was in reference to how others around here have been suddenly praising DRC in recent times to use as further justification for the Anti-Idzik mantra.  Don't get me wrong, I can totally understand why someone would be unhappy with the way the Jets addressed the CB position this offseason (and I'm far from thrilled with it), but that doesn't change the fact that people trying to build up the likes of DRC as some elite talent are full of crap, and simply looking for excuses to carry on with their excessive whining.  That doesn't mean that's what you're doing, but some around here most certainly are.

[slats]

I never said you did, but I was simply responding to your question to me about my prior statement, which was in reference to how others around here have been suddenly praising DRC in recent times to use as further justification for the Anti-Idzik mantra.  Don't get me wrong, I can totally understand why someone would be unhappy with the way the Jets addressed the CB position this offseason (and I'm far from thrilled with it), but that doesn't change the fact that people trying to build up the likes of DRC as some elite talent are full of crap, and simply looking for excuses to carry on with their excessive whining.  That doesn't mean that's what you're doing, but some around here most certainly are.

 

DRC gets mentioned more than he should because he was the last of the name CBs available this winter to be signed, and Idzik did have him in and let him leave. If he signed at that point, he still would've felt like a consolation prize - while at the same time being a major upgrade over Patterson, and maybe even over Milliner. 

[SouthernJet]

Let's just Bleed Green fellas

 

[Jetlife33]

Uh... one's out for the whole season. The other has a high ankle sprain. So...

When did Mcdougle pass Patterson on the depth chart? And yes Milliner has a high ankle sprain. So.... we're gonna wait for it to heal....

[Jetlife33]

LOL.

Quit making so much sense. It doesnt sit well on this website

Sometimes I just can't help myself, SJ. Sometimes lol

[Jetsfan80]

What do you mean by fixed? Made them a super bowl team? No. Made them exponentially more competitive and probably at worst a 9 win team? Definitely. Given them actual good defensive personal and not a good DL and Rex's empty statements? Definitely. But it's all good, since they are 30 million under the cap now which is obviously much preferable to being 18 under and having the best CB in the NFL on your team. Because it's the mission of this front office to make the defense as unwatchable and pathetic as the offense was last year!

 

1.  Revis wouldn't make us a playoff team or "at minimum" a 9-win team.  Only once when Revis was here did we win more than 9 games.  He wasn't this transcendent force that made us a competitor. 

 

2.  Rex shouldn't need a superstar free agent CB to field an effective defense. 

 

3.  So now the defense of 2014 is the same as the offense of 2013?  What would you be saying right now if we decided to get Revis but did not sign Decker?  You'd be whining and b*tching about how bad the O is gonna be.  This isn't Madden.  The only "quick fix" to a team in the NFL these days is by getting quality QB play.  We gave Geno Smith as many weapons as possible to assist him in that process.  If he fails to take a step up, no one, not Revis, DRC, Vontae Davis, Alterraun Verner, or anyone else is gonna make us competitive.

 

4.  The goal shouldn't be to be "just competitive" anyways.  It's playoffs or bust for this team.  An 8-8/9-7 finish without a postseason appearance is the least optimal option.  A 6-10 (or worse) type of season, while lousy to watch, would probably usher in a new era for the franchise.  Idzik would be able to bring in "his guy" at HC and they'd be able to enter a strong 2015 QB class with a pretty good draft slot. 

[Bleedin Green]

DRC gets mentioned more than he should because he was the last of the name CBs available this winter to be signed, and Idzik did have him in and let him leave. If he signed at that point, he still would've felt like a consolation prize - while at the same time being a major upgrade over Patterson, and maybe even over Milliner. 

 

I don't disagree with you, and that's kind of the point.  Idzik would still be getting criticized just as much if he had signed DRC.  We all know that if the Jets outbid the Giants with a similarly long-term contract, they'd be catching a lot of crap for the deal.  Even ignoring that, we'd still be hearing all about the comments that flooded this board at the time of his visit, which included everything from his inconsistent play, his poor attitude, his hopping around the league, and what was probably the hottest topic at the time, his apparent lack of desire/motivation based on his considering retirement.

 

Signing DRC to a long-term deal wasn't going to make any significant changes to the opinions of anyone about Idzik.

[unbanmadmike1]

1.  Revis wouldn't make us a playoff team or "at minimum" a 9-win team.  Only once when Revis was here did we win more than 9 games.  He wasn't this transcendent force that made us a competitor. 

 

2.  Rex shouldn't need a superstar free agent CB to field an effective defense. 

 

3.  So now the defense of 2014 is the same as the offense of 2013?  What would you be saying right now if we decided to get Revis but did not sign Decker?  You'd be whining and b*tching about how bad the O is gonna be.  This isn't Madden.  The only "quick fix" to a team in the NFL these days is by getting quality QB play.  We gave Geno Smith as many weapons as possible to assist him in that process.  If he fails to take a step up, no one, not Revis, DRC, Vontae Davis, Alterraun Verner, or anyone else is gonna make us competitive.

 

4.  The goal shouldn't be to be "just competitive" anyways.  It's playoffs or bust for this team.  An 8-8/9-7 finish without a postseason appearance is the least optimal option.  A 6-10 (or worse) type of season, while lousy to watch, would probably usher in a new era for the franchise.  Idzik would be able to bring in "his guy" at HC and they'd be able to enter a strong 2015 QB class with a pretty good draft slot. 

 

1. Revis was by far the best player on a team that made 2 AFC championships with the worst QB play in the league. He was also statistically the best CB in the NFL last season. 

2. The jets don't have superstars anywhere so who needs um lol. OK sure. I mean you only have to go look at last year where they were good vs the run and horrible vs the pass, resulting in a bad defense that was ranked in the 20s to know that your statement is wrong. And there is no reason to believe that the secondary will be any better than last year, in fact it might be worse.

3. If they had signed Revis and not Decker I would be saying that they haven't done nearly enough to improve the talent level on this roster, Just like they haven't done nearly enough to improve the talent level on this roster in reality. 

4. Again, this isn't baseball, teams turn around in one season ALL THE TIME by using their resources to effectively fill holes and bring in good players to improve the talent level on the roster. They didn't do that. It all comes back to the fact that this team is just not talented enough and they didn't use the resources they had to improve the roster NEARLY as well they should have, in fact, they didn't use a lot of those resources (cap dollars) at all!

[Matt39]

DRC isn't a retread...he's a damn good man corner

[Jetsfan80]

1. Revis was by far the best player on a team that made 2 AFC championships with the worst QB play in the league. He was also statistically the best CB in the NFL last season. 

 

2. The jets don't have superstars anywhere so who needs um lol. OK sure. I mean you only have to go look at last year where they were good vs the run and horrible vs the pass, resulting in a bad defense that was ranked in the 20s to know that your statement is wrong. And there is no reason to believe that the secondary will be any better than last year, in fact it might be worse.

 

3. If they had signed Revis and not Decker I would be saying that they haven't done nearly enough to improve the talent level on this roster, Just like they haven't done nearly enough to improve the talent level on this roster in reality. 

 

4. Again, this isn't baseball, teams turn around in one season ALL THE TIME by using their resources to effectively fill holes and bring in good players to improve the talent level on the roster. They didn't do that. It all comes back to the fact that this team is just not talented enough and they didn't use the resources they had to improve the roster NEARLY as well they should have, in fact, they didn't use a lot of those resources (cap dollars) at all!

 

 

1. Revis was by far the best player on a team that made 2 AFC championships with the worst QB play in the league. He was also statistically the best CB in the NFL last season.  And the Tampa Bay Bucs went 4-12 with the almighty Revis in tow.

 

2. The jets don't have superstars anywhere so who needs um lol. OK sure. I mean you only have to go look at last year where they were good vs the run and horrible vs the pass, resulting in a bad defense that was ranked in the 20s to know that your statement is wrong. And there is no reason to believe that the secondary will be any better than last year, in fact it might be worse.  The Jets drafted an impact safety in the 1st round who has the look of a player.  Last I checked, safeties are part of the secondary.  They also have a DL featuring the 2013 DROY and a legit star in Wilkerson.  A great DL and a ballhawking safety is a recipe for creating turnovers, something the Jets have struggled with in the past.  The secondary can't get any worse than last year, when Antonio Cromartie was ranked among the league's worst CB's.

 

 

3. If they had signed Revis and not Decker I would be saying that they haven't done nearly enough to improve the talent level on this roster, Just like they haven't done nearly enough to improve the talent level on this roster in reality.  Exactly.  The Jets sign the top WR on the market but because they didn't also get the top CB on the market, to you, they aren't improving the talent on the roster.  Because we live in a universe where that makes sense, and one where a team can sign anyone they want like Madden, regardless of whether the player fits a scheme or his pricetag matches his talent.

 

4.  Again, this isn't baseball, teams turn around in one season ALL THE TIME by using their resources to effectively fill holes and bring in good players to improve the talent level on the roster. They didn't do that. It all comes back to the fact that this team is just not talented enough and they didn't use the resources they had to improve the roster NEARLY as well they should have, in fact, they didn't use a lot of those resources (cap dollars) at all!  Name one team in the last 10 years that went from having negative net points to a Super Bowl contender in one offseason.  One.

 

[Jetsfan80]

DRC isn't a retread...he's a damn good man corner

 

4 different teams in a 5 year period.  Sounds an awful lot like a retread.

[unbanmadmike1]

1. Revis was by far the best player on a team that made 2 AFC championships with the worst QB play in the league. He was also statistically the best CB in the NFL last season.  And the Tampa Bay Bucs went 4-12 with the almighty Revis in tow.

 

This isn''t relevant. Revis played great last year. Sure he can't single handedly make a bad team good but he was still great. I guess you'd rather have that 12M sit in woody's pocket this season while sh*tty QB's make the Jets secondary look bad again?

 

2. The jets don't have superstars anywhere so who needs um lol. OK sure. I mean you only have to go look at last year where they were good vs the run and horrible vs the pass, resulting in a bad defense that was ranked in the 20s to know that your statement is wrong. And there is no reason to believe that the secondary will be any better than last year, in fact it might be worse.  The Jets drafted an impact safety in the 1st round who has the look of a player.  Last I checked, safeties are part of the secondary.  They also have a DL featuring the 2013 DROY and a legit star in Wilkerson.  A great DL and a ballhawking safety is a recipe for creating turnovers, something the Jets have struggled with in the past.  The secondary can't get any worse than last year, when Antonio Cromartie was ranked among the league's worst CB's.

 

Even if Pryor becomes a good player which I agree is likely, what about the other 11 draft picks who have literally made zero impact so far in TC? Free pass? 

 

 

3. If they had signed Revis and not Decker I would be saying that they haven't done nearly enough to improve the talent level on this roster, Just like they haven't done nearly enough to improve the talent level on this roster in reality.  Exactly.  The Jets sign the top WR on the market but because they didn't also get the top CB on the market, to you, they aren't improving the talent on the roster.  Because we live in a universe where that makes sense, and one where a team can sign anyone they want like Madden, regardless of whether the player fits a scheme or his pricetag matches his talent.

 

There is a reason they had 40 million of cap space going into the offseason. They were a terrible team with awful talent and no matter how you slice it there were resources unused and misused. 

 

4.  Again, this isn't baseball, teams turn around in one season ALL THE TIME by using their resources to effectively fill holes and bring in good players to improve the talent level on the roster. They didn't do that. It all comes back to the fact that this team is just not talented enough and they didn't use the resources they had to improve the roster NEARLY as well they should have, in fact, they didn't use a lot of those resources (cap dollars) at all!  Name one team in the last 10 years that went from having negative net points to a Super Bowl contender in one offseason.  One.

 

Can I name teams that went from negative net points to a solid not-unwatchable 10 win competitive team that could have a chance to make the playoffs? Because if thats what we were looking at at with the Jets this season, you wouldn't be hearing a negative word from me. Instead we're looking at a team that even the most optimistic posters around here think will win less games than it did last season. And they had more than enough resources to get there.

[Matt39]

4 different teams in a 5 year period. Sounds an awful lot like a retread.

Cover man corner he's one of the best in football. The Eagles played zone and was a silly ...he was very good for the Broncos last year.

[Clementi49]

Milliner and McDougle would of been nice to see them start the season. Agh well Rex will figure it out.

[Jetsfan80]

Cover man corner he's one of the best in football. The Eagles played zone and was a silly ...he was very good for the Broncos last year.

 

Then why did they only sign him to a 1-year deal and let him walk?

 

FootballOutsiders has their pass D ranked 21st overall last season.  And against # 1 WR's they were ranked 17th.  When you factor in the lack of elite receiving options in the AFC West (Are Keenan Allen, Dwayne Bowe and whoever the Raiders trotted out elite?) that looks even worse.

 

He's just not worth the kind of coin the Giants handed him.  He probably would have been a decent/good # 2 CB for us but was he worth nearly $8M per?

[sourceworx]

Cover man corner he's one of the best in football. The Eagles played zone and was a silly ...he was very good for the Broncos last year.

So good that they let him leave in FA.

[Il Mostro]

4 different teams in a 5 year period.  Sounds an awful lot like a retread.

 

 

That sounds like a REJECT.

[Jetsfan80]

 

 

 

 

1.  This isn''t relevant. Revis played great last year. Sure he can't single handedly make a bad team good but he was still great. I guess you'd rather have that 12M sit in woody's pocket this season while sh*tty QB's make the Jets secondary look bad again?

 

So Revis had little impact on the Bucs yet you think Revis would make us a "minimum 9-win team?"  My point is very relevant.  CB's just don't matter that much.  Pass rush is much more valuable, and soon enough we'll need to pay Sheldon Richardson and Muhammad Wilkerson big coin.

 

 

 

2.  Even if Pryor becomes a good player which I agree is likely, what about the other 11 draft picks who have literally made zero impact so far in TC? Free pass? 

 

1 training camp and 2 preseason games and you're already writing off 10 rookies.  I should probably just stop wasting my time here but I'm a glutton for punishment.

 

 

3.  There is a reason they had 40 million of cap space going into the offseason. They were a terrible team with awful talent and no matter how you slice it there were resources unused and misused. 

 

Oh, so Idzik was supposed to turn a "terrible team with awful talent" into a contender by throwing money at the problem.  Because that's worked before.  Would you prefer we operated like the Raiders did?

 

 

4.  Can I name teams that went from negative net points to a solid not-unwatchable 10 win competitive team that could have a chance to make the playoffs? Because if thats what we were looking at at with the Jets this season, you wouldn't be hearing a negative word from me. Instead we're looking at a team that even the most optimistic posters around here think will win less games than it did last season. And they had more than enough resources to get there.

 

Right, you can't name one.  Thought so.  You just keep recycling the tired old lines without showing a hint that you could have done better than Idzik has these past 2 offseasons.  You're a whiner.

[Matt39]

So good that they let him leave in FA.

Yeah because they signed a better one. Would have loved for us to gone after Talib...who's another excellent man corner.

[AFJF]

Cover man corner he's one of the best in football. The Eagles played zone and was a silly ...he was very good for the Broncos last year.

 

I think Denver would have had  him cover the other team's #1 guy more often if he was one of the best.  Apparently he spent A LOT of time with the opponent's #2 WR and struggled vs. the 1's.

[Jetsfan80]

Yeah because they signed a better one. Would have loved for us to gone after Talib...who's another excellent man corner.

 

We keep talking about all these corners on the market that were brought in to be # 1 corners and paid like it.  None of these teams had drafted a corner top 10 the year before, and most of them were contending teams.  Meaning we'd have had to overpay to bring in a # 1 CB when we might already have one on the roster.

 

Seems like Idzik wasn't comfortable with that and it's simply odd that this has become such a major knock against him.

[unbanmadmike1]

 

 

So Revis had little impact on the Bucs yet you think Revis would make us a "minimum 9-win team?"  My point is very relevant.  CB's just don't matter that much.  Pass rush is much more valuable, and soon enough we'll need to pay Sheldon Richardson and Muhammad Wilkerson big coin.

 

Actually the Bucs were probably around as good as the jets last year and they just got unlucky. At least if you believe point differential and DVOA... Richardson is 3 years away from getting paid. That isn't soon. And Wilkerson will get his money. Again, they have THIRTY MILLION DOLLARS under the cap. 

 

 

 

1 training camp and 2 preseason games and you're already writing off 10 rookies.  I should probably just stop wasting my time here but I'm a glutton for punishment.

 

Stop making excuses. There are rookies all over the league who are opening eyes in training camp in and in preseason games and showing good signs. Why are you pretending that NONE of the 11 draft picks who aren't named Calvin Pryor are doing that for the Jets isn't a perfectly legitimate thing to worry about?

 

 

Oh, so Idzik was supposed to turn a "terrible team with awful talent" into a contender by throwing money at the problem.  Because that's worked before.  Would you prefer we operated like the Raiders did?

 

The raiders brought in sh*tty players and their GM got fired. I guess it's too much to expect that a GM know what players to bring in... I mean that's only their job and all. Why is there this moronic idea that it's somehow matters how you acquire a player, not how good player they are. GM's have to use all available tools the draft AND free agency to improve the team. One isn't inherently better than another. 

 

 

 

Right, you can't name one.  Thought so.  You just keep recycling the tired old lines without showing a hint that you could have done better than Idzik has these past 2 offseasons.  You're a whiner.

 

I wasn't a GM candidate that I know of so the idea of me doing a worse or better job than idzik is pretty much a dumb comparison. He's compared to his peers, other GM's. Not to internet posters. And against those other GM's the idea that he's doing a good job is foolishness and backed up by nothing.  

 

[Bleedin Green]

Again, they have THIRTY MILLION DOLLARS under the cap. 

 

 

I'm curious, do you think if you just keep repeating this over and over again it will somehow magically become true?  I mean, come on, is $21 million seriously not enough to complain about all on its own?