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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Chris Ivory is underrated. There, I said it.


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29 replies to this topic

#1 Jetsfan80

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 07:10 AM

No, Chris Ivory can't catch passes.  We'll start there.  In a system that requires having pass-catching RB's, Ivory fails miserable in this department (just 5 career catches).  He also has an injury history.  These are things everyone knows about him so we can move on.

 

I prefer to look at Ivory does well.  Run with the football.  You know, what a starting-caliber running back does about 15-25 times a game. 

 

Beyond the 4.6 ypc he boasted last year (4.9 for his career), Ivory also passes the advanced metrics test.

 

In 2013, According to PFF, Ivory was 3rd in the NFL in missed tackles per rushing attempt behind Ben Tate and Joique Bell:  https://www.profootb...-premium-stats/

 

He also had 280 yards after contact on runs to the outside, a 4.44 yards after contact per carry rate that ranked him 2nd in the NFL behind Andre Ellington:  https://www.profootb...tackles-part-2/

 

Now, to be fair, FootballOutsiders has Ivory and Bilal Powell ranked about the same as runners last year (-8.3 % DVOA for Ivory, -8.7 % for Powell), in the "about average" ballpark.  But FO also ranks the Jets O-line 21st in overall run-blocking, and was particularly bad at blocking for runs to the inside, where Ivory spends most of his time.  When he was able to run to the outside where he had space, the PFF numbers paint a picture of him being quite difficult to bring down.

 

All in all he's been worth the 4th round pick we jettisoned to get him thus far, and is an excellent position to do what he does best while Chris Johnson and Powell worry about the pass-catching duties.


Edited by Jetsfan80, 29 August 2014 - 07:12 AM.

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#2 T0mShane

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 07:15 AM

Strong take.
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#3 freestater

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 08:18 AM

yes, good write-up. I know his history hasn't shown it, but I recall a couple plays in the Gints game he took little screen passes to the outside for some good gains.


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#4 JiF

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 08:38 AM

Outside of DL, the RB's are the best unit on the team.

 

I like Ivory, definitely didnt like the trade initially but he won me over with his maniac running style.  He runs with such a reckless abandon, I fear for his life and those trying to tackle him.


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#5 JayKwaz

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 09:00 AM

He has looked faster this preseason to me.
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#6 Jetsfan80

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 09:01 AM

Strong take.

 

Top 15 RB this year.  He'll be running a lot more to the right side with Howard gone.


Edited by Jetsfan80, 29 August 2014 - 09:02 AM.

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#7 slats

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 09:06 AM

No, Chris Ivory can't catch passes.  We'll start there.  In a system that requires having pass-catching RB's, Ivory fails miserable in this department (just 5 career catches).  He also has an injury history.  These are things everyone knows about him so we can move on.


Lol. So when he's healthy enough to get on the field and passes aren't bouncing off his hands, he's awesome. Got it.
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#8 Jetsfan80

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 09:24 AM

Lol. So when he's healthy enough to get on the field and passes aren't bouncing off his hands, he's awesome. Got it.

 

I already covered that.  Your refusal to see what he DOES bring to the table is astounding.  We've literally never had a RB like him; no fear and able to punish defenders.  He's Marshawn Lynch lite.  Meanwhile guys like Thomas Jones and even the great Curtis Martin basically took what the OL gave them.


Edited by Jetsfan80, 29 August 2014 - 09:25 AM.

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#9 bitonti

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 09:27 AM

he actually caught a screen against the NYG

 

The problem with Ivory is staying healthy. He's properly rated because he can't seem to stay on the field for multiple weeks at a stretch. If he stayed healthy all 16 games, yes he'd probably be a special RB.

 

As it stands, splitting reps with Johnson and Powell is probably the best thing for this player. He's never proven he can be more than a part time starter. 


Edited by bitonti, 29 August 2014 - 09:27 AM.

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#10 slats

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 09:46 AM

I already covered that.  Your refusal to see what he DOES bring to the table is astounding.  We've literally never had a RB like him; no fear and able to punish defenders.  He's Marshawn Lynch lite.  Meanwhile guys like Thomas Jones and even the great Curtis Martin basically took what the OL gave them.


You covered that as if it's perfectly reasonable to brush off the fact that he can't catch anything but an injury bug. Players in general have no value at all if they can't get on the field, and starting RBs need to be able to catch the football. When Chris Ivory is lined up in the backfield, the defense knows the team isn't attempting a screen pass. That's a liability. He's supposed to be a power back, but the Jets needed to employ Sheldon Richardson in that role last year.

He does have a punishing and fearless style to running the football. He's exciting to watch when he gets going, I'll certainly give you that. But that style of play also -unfortunately- leads to some of his injury issues.

I think he's the most overrated guy on the team, and I fully expect him to essentially be Chris Johnson's backup this season - even if they start him the first play of the game out of "respect." He's a great guy to have to bang out the clock at the end of a game, and hopefully the Jets get a few leads this year so they can put him to use.
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#11 Jetsfan80

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 10:10 AM

You covered that as if it's perfectly reasonable to brush off the fact that he can't catch anything but an injury bug. Players in general have no value at all if they can't get on the field, and starting RBs need to be able to catch the football. When Chris Ivory is lined up in the backfield, the defense knows the team isn't attempting a screen pass. That's a liability. He's supposed to be a power back, but the Jets needed to employ Sheldon Richardson in that role last year.

He does have a punishing and fearless style to running the football. He's exciting to watch when he gets going, I'll certainly give you that. But that style of play also -unfortunately- leads to some of his injury issues.

I think he's the most overrated guy on the team, and I fully expect him to essentially be Chris Johnson's backup this season - even if they start him the first play of the game out of "respect." He's a great guy to have to bang out the clock at the end of a game, and hopefully the Jets get a few leads this year so they can put him to use.

 

The fact that teams know he isn't in there to catch passes, yet can't stop him even then, proves his worth.  How can he possibly be "overrated" in your eyes?  He's considered by most to be exactly what you say he is; a complimentary back.

 

I think we'll see Ivory and CJ on the field together a lot this year, with CJ lined up all over the place.  It's exciting to think about.


Edited by Jetsfan80, 29 August 2014 - 10:12 AM.

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#12 slats

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 10:34 AM

The fact that teams know he isn't in there to catch passes, yet can't stop him even then, proves his worth.  How can he possibly be "overrated" in your eyes?  He's considered by most to be exactly what you say he is; a complimentary back.
 
I think we'll see Ivory and CJ on the field together a lot this year, with CJ lined up all over the place.  It's exciting to think about.


He was brought in to be the starter, not a complementary back. He was Idzik's own little Marshawn Lynch. Yet, the much-maligned Bilal Powell gained more all-purpose yards than Ivory last year. When Chris Johnson became available, John Idzik didn't hesitate to spend the money for him. John Idzik spent money! They recognize that Ivory is unreliable due to his constant injury tweaks, and his hands are even less reliable. Brushing those things aside to assert that he's underrated is incredibly silly to me. And if the organization felt the same way you do, Chris Johnson wouldn't be here.

You overrate him, just like you do country music.
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#13 Jetsfan80

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 10:36 AM

You overrate him, just like you do country music.

 

I created a Violent Femmes pandora station though.


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#14 slats

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 10:41 AM

I created a Violent Femmes pandora station though.


That's a start. I love Pandora. My Brian Jonestown Massacre station has been getting a lot of play, lately. Although it tried to play Hotel California, I set a land speed record thumbing that sh*t down.
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#15 pedro55

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 02:11 PM

The fact that teams know he isn't in there to catch passes, yet can't stop him even then, proves his worth.  How can he possibly be "overrated" in your eyes?  He's considered by most to be exactly what you say he is; a complimentary back.

 

I think we'll see Ivory and CJ on the field together a lot this year, with CJ lined up all over the place.  It's exciting to think about.

 

  He had 800 yards rushing last season.  That's not a guy who teams can't stop.  that's a guy who is an avg back.    


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#16 Gastineau Lives

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 02:32 PM

  He had 800 yards rushing last season.  That's not a guy who teams can't stop.  that's a guy who is an avg back.    

 

4.6 a carry. Tied with Matt Forte for eighth. That's not a guy that is unstoppable but not an average back unless you choose to look through the ass end of the telescope.


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#17 Jetsfan80

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 02:39 PM

Ahem.
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#18 Villain The Foe

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 02:41 PM

Ahem.

Diggin in the crates huh? 


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#19 freestater

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 05:00 PM

Ahem.

:headbang:


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#20 Matt39

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 05:02 PM

I made this thread a year ago.


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#21 yanks9596

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 05:41 PM

Throw away the statistics, Chris Ivory just makes it happen out there. He is the most relentless RB the Jets have had in a very, very long time. Always have been a fan of his style of play. The downside is that he will get nicked up, but I'll take it any day of the week.
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#22 Jettington

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 06:03 PM

Ivory reminds me of Lynch.


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#23 Lil Bit Special

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 06:06 PM

run hard until you get to the endzone.  Then celebrate.  Thanks.


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#24 Jet Nut

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 06:33 PM

He had 800 yards rushing last season.  That's not a guy who teams can't stop.  that's a guy who is an avg back.


If you're too dumb to look at the number of carries, ignore 4.6 per and the way he carried the ball.

Nothing about this says average.
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#25 Jetsfan80

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 07:06 PM

Lol. So when he's healthy enough to get on the field and passes aren't bouncing off his hands, he's awesome. Got it.

 

Correct.


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