Nitwit Itzik will never have Rex bench his QB that he drafted but Is it Vick time? (Merged)

[Shadetree]

the main reason we're losing games is because of coaching. why are we running a designed QB draw on the 4 yd line on a 3rd and 3? putting Vick in against OAK and GB when we have the ball inside the 10? it makes absolutely no sense. poor play calling and poor game management. i'm a Rex fan but him and his staff aren't doing a good job.

Gotta agree with this.

Morhinweg playcallng was a atrocious ...ivory wAs in beast mode all the way down the field on that drive Nd you get cute with the geno sneak? Offense is disorganized for two games in a row in crucial situations too

[ali]

Bench this fool before he does more damage.  I do not know if Vick can salvage a season in which he has received virtually no practise reps, but I do know he is a hugely more talented player -- even today, at 34 -- than this Geno will ever be -- if you don't believe me, check with the last QB to take the Jets to a Super Bowl and win.  Geno is, simply put, not an NFL starting QB:  he is not one now, nor will he ever possess that unique combination of talent it takes to be one. People will say, but wait, look at this guy or that guy who ultimately made it big.  I say look at what is in front of you right now, and ask yourself seriously:  if you were betting major units on Geno making that pass in the endzone to win the game, would you bet on Geno or (name any real top 10 NFL QB of your choice here)? I do not care if he is Idzik's pick or not.  I was a rabid Jets fan long before I ever heard of this incompetent cheapskate, and I shall continue to be one long after he is gone.  Yes the refs seemed at times to deliberately make calls against the Jets at crucial moments (and I think Rex if he had any balls should raise a hell of a stink over that nullified TD) -- this is after all the second week in a row that refs have played a role in taking away a Jets TD though their own incompetence and possibly malfeasance. But only losers blame refs.  Like Al Davis said, just win baby -- everything else is a waste of my time.  The list of problems ailing the Jets is very long, and I have mentionned them elsewhere -- as have many others.  But I know this:  after watching 40 years of professional football, including 30 years following the Jets at Shea, Giants statium, the Yale Bowl, you name it... I know this:  I know what a winning, AFL-style professional NFL quarterback looks like, and this Geno pretender ain't it. Not even close. The inability of this joke of a professional QB to score in the waning moments of a game against a banged up, half rookie half out of position, cobbled together patched up with spit and bubble gum secondary can never be erased.  Geno is nothing but a bum who needs to be benched now and written off -- permanently.  Even Simms would be a better choice if Vick gets injured.  That's it.  I won't repeat this again, but will now sit back, and watch the season bear me out.

[heymangold]

the only thing i'm blaming Idzik for is not getting a CB and another WR.  

 

not for drafting Geno.

[Apache 51]

We're not winning the Superbowl this year. Vick isn't the long term answer. Might as well let Geno try and improve.

+1

[deucebag]

You cant teach intelligence, time did not stop Kerry Collins from making stupid mistakes,  or Mark Sanchez, or Vince Young, or even Brett Farve... Michael Vick is no savior and is pretty dumb himself, but he knows Marty's offense and had some success with it.  Vick also adds the running element which puts defenses on alert and may help free up these mediocre borderline pro receivers.   Yes it is time for Geno to sit, even for a few games, and if/when Vick gets hurt, Simms gets activated and we see what he can do.   Geno makes some good plays, but his inaccuracy and carelessness are killing him.

[shawn306]

If vick wants to start at this point...whatever.

 

If the Jets were to win one of the next 4 i would be shocked.

 

The offense sucks right now

The defense sucks as well. 

Coaching on both sides has been brutal

 

There have been way too many mistakes on both sides of the ball and the Jets are not a team that can overcome them.

 

They have become a Bruce Coslet "play well enough to lose kind of team"

[CTM]

Vick is going to be worse.

 

Roll with Geno

[Gastineau Lives]

Vick is going to be worse.

 

Roll with Geno

 

Worse? Nah. Not sure how you can be worse than the earliest pick six in MNF history coupled with a ridiculous red zone interception.

 

But you do have to roll with Geno. Without Decker, they're both ****ed anyway.

[Matt39]

Geno is going to be throwing picks if he's asked to drop back 40+ times throwing to the likes of David Nelson.

[ZachEY]

For all those who say its da weaponzz why not start vick and when he stinks you will know whether its da weaponzzz or the qb. Geno fans should be begging for vick to get a start if youre so confident geno is better.

That is, of course, only if the goal of "Geno fans" is primarily to prove you et al wrong.

[New York Mick]

Nope.

This year is still about evaluating Geno, who is the only potential franchise QB on the roster. Barring a complete capitulation in his play to the point where it would be merciful to take him out, you ride the year out with him at QB. We're not hugely invested in him and we don't have to be. If he isn't good enough over the 16 games then you replace him.

Even if Vick was an upgrade and I'm far from convinced he would be, no one will want would feel comfortable going into next season with him as the starter.

If we crash with Geno. Draft a QB.

Geno sucks. Evaluation over.

[pointman]

Vick is terrible.

[RSJ]

The biggest joke all summer was that Geno gave the Jets a better chance to win than Vick.

[LWC611]

As a fan I hope you are wrong, but that seems like a valid statement after his performance tonight

I know smith was not good tonight, but it bothers me that the only receiver that has the ability to get open consistently and actually make plays for him is Kerley!!!  Yes he has made mistakes, but we really need to find another receiver can get open... 

[Klecko73isGod]

That is, of course, only if the goal of "Geno fans" is primarily to prove you et al wrong.

 

Actually I want the Jets to win. Starting Michael Vick precludes that possibility. 

[DonCorleone]

We're not winning the Superbowl this year. Vick isn't the long term answer. Might as well let Geno try and improve.

You are assuming he will improve. Unfortunately, he is just not stopping the continuous mistakes. How many seasons do we throw away for the benefit of one?

[JustInFudge]

Vick sucks and starting him does absolutely nothing for this team.  Nothing.

 

So maybe he's good enough to squeak into the playoffs?  Then what?  You commit to him again next season?

 

No.  Let Geno play it out.  He's got talent.  You have to let him work this sh*t out.  The weaponz are terrible.  You cant ask him to throw the ball over the field when you're starting WR is David Nelson.

 

Ivory should have had 25 carries last night.  

[faba]

Vick sucks and starting him does absolutely nothing for this team.  Nothing.

 

So maybe he's good enough to squeak into the playoffs?  Then what?  You commit to him again next season?

 

No.  Let Geno play it out.  He's got talent.  You have to let him work this sh*t out.  The weaponz are terrible.  You cant ask him to throw the ball over the field when you're starting WR is David Nelson.

 

Ivory should have had 25 carries last night.  

Dumb mistakes in a QB are not going to overcome talent- Geno keeps making them

[faba]

Also Vick is the not the answer

[JustInFudge]

Dumb mistakes in a QB are not going to overcome talent- Geno keeps making them

 

Every QB makes mistakes.  Its not an excuse, its reality and young ones are especially prone to it.  When you dont have guys who can get open and you're constantly asked to make plays, mistakes are going to happen at an even higher rate.

 

This isnt Sanchez who would be asked to throw 15 times a game and kill us time and time again, they've got this kid throwing the ball around the field to nobodies, 40+ times a game.

 

It's too much.   

[jgb]

"If" the officials call the PA the right way early the jets have a chance to win. "If" should be scoop n' score gets called properly jets have a chance to win. "If" punt isn't botched jets have a chance to win. Can play ifs all night that put the jets back in the game.

If jets don't spot Chicago a td first ten seconds of game, if jets can score a td in 2 rather than 1 red zone trips, can play ifs all night that out the jets back in the game.

[RSJ]

Competition.

[jgb]

Every QB makes mistakes. Its not an excuse, its reality and young ones are especially prone to it. When you dont have guys who can get open and you're constantly asked to make plays, mistakes are going to happen at an even higher rate.

This isnt Sanchez who would be asked to throw 15 times a game and kill us time and time again, they've got this kid throwing the ball around the field to nobodies, 40+ times a game.

It's too much.

It's déjà vu all over again. Wake me up in 5 years when the new front office finally admits geno stinks

[Jet Nut]

I said when the Jets drafted Geno that he be a below average QB. What he had over Sanchez was his running ability but they are both the same kind of QB. Both have the accuracy problems, can't adjust to defenses and are turnover prone. These are three big flaws if you want to play in the National Football League. Itzek will never have him benched and Ryan will get fired this year.

Ugh which pick was due to accuracy issues?

[jgb]

That is, of course, only if the goal of "Geno fans" is primarily to prove you et al wrong.

Obviously winning games doesn't concern them maybe they are already hoping for a high draft pick so idzck can get da weaponzzz for their precious. News flash: jets first rounder will be another cb

[slats]

Nope.

 

This year is still about evaluating Geno, who is the only potential franchise QB on the roster. Barring a complete capitulation in his play to the point where it would be merciful to take him out, you ride the year out with him at QB. We're not hugely invested in him and we don't have to be. If he isn't good enough over the 16 games then you replace him.

 

Even if Vick was an upgrade and I'm far from convinced he would be, no one will want would feel comfortable going into next season with him as the starter.

 

If we crash with Geno. Draft a QB.

This is my take, and I believe it's the Jets' take as well. Geno, for all his mistakes, is significantly improved over last year. His accuracy is up, his ypa is up. He needs to be smarter with the ball, yes, no doubt about it. But he's not shell-shocked at this point. He still seems to be playing with confidence. I wouldn't pull him unless I felt like he had given up on himself.

John Idzik is building this team slowly. He's also not particularly invested in the coaching staff, and it probably wouldn't kill him if they had a losing record and he had the opportunity to put his own people in place. But he'll want to use this year to see if Geno can be the guy. Like IJ said, they're not heavily invested in him. He's a second round pick. If he doesn't demonstrate a significant upturn in his decision making over the course of the year, they're free to dive head first back into the QB market.

There are a lot of factors at play here. The Jets' weapons do suck. The play calling in the redzone has been way too cute. When the front office is evaluating the kid, they're well aware of everything going on around him. And they're going to want to continue to evaluate him.

[BlakeSpenceBlockedPunt]

I live in Philly, watch a ton of football and haven't missed a NYJ snap (preseason, regular or post) in well over 25 years.  There is no question that Geno is a superior player to Vick at this particular moment.  In my mind there is no reason to change QB's.

 

Since Vick has come back to football he has been a mediocre at best QB that turns the ball over much more than Geno (see data and link below).

 

In fact, you can say his turnovers are worse considering many of them are fumbles vs. interceptions, meaning you give the opponent the ball closer to your end zone than if you throw a pass down field that is intercepted.

 

The guy doesn't have it anymore.  Geno is a progressing, ascending QB that is a very good thrower of the football.  In this modern NFL where passing the ball is key we need a QB that can throw the ball effectively.  Geno has showed outstanding potential.  There isn't a throw he can't make.  Vick is a mobile QB that doesn't have it anymore in a league where mobile QB's are a dying breed.

 

I've seen Vick play a lot and he is not the answer.  Stop it with the belief that Vick is the answer.  The answer lies in sticking with Geno and him continuing to grow and improve.  It would help if Marty would run the ball a bit more (Ivory was great last night)...

 

See the excerpt below for data that supports what I'm saying (here's link to full article http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2013/2/11/3974912/breaking-down-michael-vicks-turnovers-draft:

 

Which brings us to Michael Vick.

Vick has been criticized heavily during his time with the Eagles for being careless with the ball and turning it over. In the last two seasons Vick has thrown 24 interceptions and put the ball on the turf 21 times. That is pretty staggering considering he has only played 23 games.

[Tony The Wiz]

Vick sucks and starting him does absolutely nothing for this team.  Nothing.

 

So maybe he's good enough to squeak into the playoffs?  Then what?  You commit to him again next season?

 

No.  Let Geno play it out.  He's got talent.  You have to let him work this sh*t out.  The weaponz are terrible.  You cant ask him to throw the ball over the field when you're starting WR is David Nelson.

 

Ivory should have had 25 carries last night.  

Sorry to say the weapons are not terrible. We have a great running game and Decker was like getting a receiver in the draft. It is to bad that he got injured but this is on two people and that is our QB and our offensive coordinator. What ever happen to the play action pass from a QB since the running game was doing so good? Marty was a bad hire especially having a mediocre QB.  

[JustInFudge]

Sorry to say the weapons are not terrible. We have a great running game and Decker was like getting a receiver in the draft. It is to bad that he got injured but this is on two people and that is our QB and our offensive coordinator. What ever happen to the play action pass from a QB since the running game was doing so good? Marty was a bad hire especially having a mediocre QB.

Ivory, Decker, Kerley and a bag of sh*t. With Decker injured, that bag of sh*t is one fire.

[BlakeSpenceBlockedPunt]

It's time to stop talking about Mike Vick as some sort of super QB that we have waiting in the wings.  He is not.  His last good year was 2004.

 

Since he returned to the league his record as a starting QB is 20-22 (47.6%).  Geno is 9-10 (47.4%).  Geno is progressing.  Vick regressing.

 

Mike Vick is a TO machine (Int's and fumbles).  Take a look at this from his time with the Eagles:  http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2013/2/11/3974912/breaking-down-michael-vicks-turnovers-draft

 

A short snippet is here:

 

Vick has been criticized heavily during his time with the Eagles for being careless with the ball and turning it over. In the last two seasons Vick has thrown 24 interceptions and put the ball on the turf 21 times. That is pretty staggering considering he has only played 23 games.

 

I'm much more concerned with the fact that we have coaches that have been doing this for a very long time and we consistently make the same mistakes which hurt us time and again.  From my view Geno has clearly performed better relatively speaking than our coaching staff.

 

Move on from this narrative.  What we should be discussing is why our team looks so disorganized and undisciplined so often.  Truth is Rex and his staff are not going a good enough job right now.

 

That is our issue.

 

 

[SAR I]

Let me start by saying we are a work-in-progress, a young team in Year 2 of a 4 year rebuild.

That said, Mike Vick has the same downside as Geno Smith (turnovers) and 3x the upside as Geno Smith (experience, smarts) so once current management makes the decision that Geno Smith is never going to be The Man, we should move on to Mike Vick for sheer entertainment value.

Either way, we're a middling .500 team. The only important things to accomplish this season:

1. Validate whether Geno Smith is a potential Franchise QB or not.

2. Validate that Rex Ryan is growing into a complete NFL HC or not.

3. Validate that John Idzik is drafting well and developing into a strong GM or not.

4. Validate that key young players are developing into future strong starters nor not.

Whether we win 8 games or win 6 games doesn't really matter.

SAR I

[SAR I]

The Jets' weapons do suck. The play calling in the redzone has been way too cute. When the front office is evaluating the kid, they're well aware of everything going on around him. And they're going to want to continue to evaluate him.

The lack of offensive playmakers since 2011 kills this team in two ways:

1. We can't win more than 8 games no matter how hard we try.

2. We can't accurately judge our young QB's ability as he is handicapped.

This happened with Sanchez, it's happening with Smith, we haven't had a decent set of quality offensive playmakers out there since 2010. It's like Rex thinks we don't need any.

SAR I

[SenorGato]

No on Vick and I'm not sure Idzik would stop a Smith benching. Geno's earned time. Last night was the worst he's looked all year.  

[#27TheDominator]

Does anybody notice how much worse Geno's accuracy is when Decker is out?  I tend to think that Nelson is a just a crappy route runner and tends to settle in the wrong spot.  Some of it is probably a lack of familiarity and practice time, but he sure looks better throwing to Decker than Nelson. 

[Matt39]

The lack of offensive playmakers since 2011 kills this team in two ways:

1. We can't win more than 8 games no matter how hard we try.

2. We can't accurately judge our young QB's ability as he is handicapped.

This happened with Sanchez, it's happening with Smith, we haven't had a decent set of quality offensive playmakers out there since 2010. It's like Rex thinks we don't need any.

SAR I

 

This is true. Everything needs to happen right for this offense to be successful. One breakdown and we struggle. We need a player that can just take over when others are having down games. The pass to Nelson was awful, but there are teams in this league who have players that can come down with that football.

 

And Brian Winters, my god Rex pull the plug. Try someone else...we've seen enough.