Nitwit Itzik will never have Rex bench his QB that he drafted but Is it Vick time? (Merged)

[SAR I]

This is true. Everything needs to happen right for this offense to be successful. One breakdown and we struggle. We need a player that can just take over when others are having down games. The pass to Nelson was awful, but there are teams in this league who have players that can come down with that football.

 

And Brian Winters, my god Rex pull the plug. Try someone else...we've seen enough.

+1

Right now the Jets are a very black/white hot/cold kind of team. We are either really good or really bad in certain areas, either have the best Front 7 in the league or the worst set of WR's in the league, no middle ground. From appearances, it's an Idzik strategy, he's loading up different squads with lots of talent in one shot, not spreading it around too much.

I've allowed myself to relax this season, I have no expectations, I just want to see some positive signs and/or learn which players don't have a future here. In that context, these last two losses were important because we're learning a lot about our head coach and our quarterback and it's not good, brings those issues to a head rather quickly.

SAR I

[Matt39]

+1

Right now the Jets are a very black/white hot/cold kind of team. We are either really good or really bad in certain areas, either have the best Front 7 in the league or the worst set of WR's in the league, no middle ground. From appearances, it's an Idzik strategy, he's loading up different squads with lots of talent in one shot, not spreading it around too much.

I've allowed myself to relax this season, I have no expectations, I just want to see some positive signs and/or learn which players don't have a future here. In that context, these last two losses were important because we're learning a lot about our head coach and our quarterback and it's not good, brings those issues to a head rather quickly.

SAR I

 

The issue here is the offensive line is going to have to be overhauled rather soon. I dont think the organization is accounting for that. I'm not exactly sure how much time Idzik think's he has here....

 

But a Tannenbaum like offseason in 2015 where he starts overcompensating for sh*tty drafting wouldnt surprise me.

[BroadwayJoe12]

This is true. Everything needs to happen right for this offense to be successful. One breakdown and we struggle. We need a player that can just take over when others are having down games. The pass to Nelson was awful, but there are teams in this league who have players that can come down with that football.

 

And Brian Winters, my god Rex pull the plug. Try someone else...we've seen enough.

 

Cutler and Stafford each make that throw about 5 times a game; more often than not Marshall/Jeffery/CJ are blanketed worse than Nelson was.  It was a poor decision to throw into zone coverage like that, but how 6'5" Nelson can't body up 5'11" Fuller is beyond me.  I hope they give all of Decker and Nelson's reps to Salas this week if Decker can't practice, because that kid needs to see the field more.  Nelson is just not a good football player.

 

Geno desperately needs to stop the few boneheaded plays per game, but this is the first QB we've had in a while who's been able to consistently move the offense up and down the field between the 20s.  They need to stop getting cute in the red-zone, run ivory when it's 3rd/4th and short instead of those designed draw plays when the defense is clearly selling out.  If they can manage to not turn the ball over, they can win any game on this schedule save for the Denver game.

[Matt39]

Cutler and Stafford each make that throw about 5 times a game; more often than not Marshall/Jeffery/CJ are blanketed worse than Nelson was.  It was a poor decision to throw into zone coverage like that, but how 6'5" Nelson can't body up 5'11" Fuller is beyond me.  I hope they give all of Decker and Nelson's reps to Salas this week if Decker can't practice, because that kid needs to see the field more.  Nelson is just not a good football player.

 

Geno desperately needs to stop the few boneheaded plays per game, but this is the first QB we've had in a while who's been able to consistently move the offense up and down the field between the 20s.  They need to stop getting cute in the red-zone, run ivory when it's 3rd/4th and short instead of those designed draw plays when the defense is clearly selling out.  If they can manage to not turn the ball over, they can win any game on this schedule save for the Denver game.

 

Id be surprised if Nelson could put up the bar once.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Id be surprised if Nelson could put up the bar once.

 

It sucks, I like Nelson a lot as a person, seems like a really great guy in a sea of sh*tty people, but he's just not a good enough player to be anything more than a #4 WR.  Salas and Kerley are both players that you can scheme to be productive between the 20s, as evident last night and as long as we don't try to get too cute in the red-zone, we can manage with those guys should Decker be out.  Nelson offers nothing with the ball in his hands and doesn't play to his lanky-ass frame; at least Salas offers some wiggle when he's got the ball. Good things always seem to happen when he gets involved, minus his drop against the Raiders.  He deserves all of Nelson's snaps. 

[Matt39]

It sucks, I like Nelson a lot as a person, seems like a really great guy in a sea of sh*tty people, but he's just not a good enough player to be anything more than a #4 WR. Salas and Kerley are both players that you can scheme to be productive between the 20s, as evident last night and as long as we don't try to get too cute in the red-zone, we can manage with those guys should Decker be out. Nelson offers nothing with the ball in his hands and doesn't play to his lanky-ass frame; at least Salas offers some wiggle when he's got the ball. Good things always seem to happen when he gets involved, minus his drop against the Raiders. He deserves all of Nelson's snaps.

It's a poor group overall. Probably the slowest overall group of receivers in the league. I feel like we say this every year.

[jgb]

It's a poor group overall. Probably the slowest overall group of receivers in the league. I feel like we say this every year.

 

[BroadwayJoe12]

It's a poor group overall. Probably the slowest overall group of receivers in the league. I feel like we say this every year.

 

We do and Decker's injury just exacerbates it.  Just like when Kerley was injured last year, it's apparent how much more capable our offense is when Decker's in the game.  The annoying thing is that we are one explosive WR away from having an overall well-rounded unit. I'm not talking adding a top 7 talent like CJ, Julio, AJ Green, Nelson, Marshall or Jeffery, but someone like a TY Hilton or  Pierre Garcon.  Fielding Garcon/hilton, Decker and Kerley is significantly better than having to rely on Nelson or Salas to be impact players.  I understand they expected more from Hill or one of the rookies, but relying on rookies is always risky, they should have signed another vet.

[ucrenegade]

I said when the Jets drafted Geno that he be a below average QB. What he had over Sanchez was his running ability but they are both the same kind of QB. Both have the accuracy problems, can't adjust to defenses and are  turnover prone. These are three big flaws if you want to play in the National Football League. Itzek will never have him benched and Ryan will get fired this year.   

I said that too he has great athletic ability but doesn't have the smarts to be a franchise QB..............why won't the jets find a pure pocket passer.......

[Powpow]

Every QB makes mistakes.  Its not an excuse, its reality and young ones are especially prone to it.  When you dont have guys who can get open and you're constantly asked to make plays, mistakes are going to happen at an even higher rate.

 

This isnt Sanchez who would be asked to throw 15 times a game and kill us time and time again, they've got this kid throwing the ball around the field to nobodies, 40+ times a game.

 

It's too much.   

Nobodies?  Decker, Kerley, Cumberland, they aren't really that bad. Actually quite a good efficient trio.  This weaponz argument is lame. And asking a QB to throw the ball...well I never.

How dare MW ask the QB to 'throw' the ball.  Who does he think Geno is? A QB?  Is MW some sort of idiot to expect Geno to actually play like a top flight 2nd round QB?

I mean its just unheard of.   

 

Ask any QB if he'd like the opportunity to throw the ball 35 times a game....see what he says.  Isn't that the QB's job?    

[Powpow]

This is my take, and I believe it's the Jets' take as well. Geno, for all his mistakes, is significantly improved over last year. His accuracy is up, his ypa is up. He needs to be smarter with the ball, yes, no doubt about it. But he's not shell-shocked at this point. He still seems to be playing with confidence. I wouldn't pull him unless I felt like he had given up on himself.

John Idzik is building this team slowly. He's also not particularly invested in the coaching staff, and it probably wouldn't kill him if they had a losing record and he had the opportunity to put his own people in place. But he'll want to use this year to see if Geno can be the guy. Like IJ said, they're not heavily invested in him. He's a second round pick. If he doesn't demonstrate a significant upturn in his decision making over the course of the year, they're free to dive head first back into the QB market.

There are a lot of factors at play here. The Jets' weapons do suck. The play calling in the redzone has been way too cute. When the front office is evaluating the kid, they're well aware of everything going on around him. And they're going to want to continue to evaluate him.

Who cares about Geno being the only 'franchise' QB on the roster.  That's as meaningless as this post. And he's improved huh? Yes, somewhat and he's also on target to commit 32-40 turnovers for the year at this rate. Now thats entertainment!  

[CobraVerde]

Vick is not a solution. Im not looking to make the playoffs just this year im looking to win consistently year in and out for the next decade. Vick is a band aid to keep the ship running in case geno gets hurt. this isnt his team he isnt going to make it happen. stop being typical crazy fans so early in the year. please wait till the bye to start flipping out,,,

[Powpow]

Vick is not a solution. Im not looking to make the playoffs just this year im looking to win consistently year in and out for the next decade. Vick is a band aid to keep the ship running in case geno gets hurt. this isnt his team he isnt going to make it happen. stop being typical crazy fans so early in the year. please wait till the bye to start flipping out,,,

By the bye we will be 2-8 and you can say bye bye to the season

[Irish Jet]

It's a poor group overall. Probably the slowest overall group of receivers in the league. I feel like we say this every year.

 

Kerley is criminally underrated though.

 

If he played in one of those pad-stat passing systems he'd be an all pro. He'd also get his flags then too. 

[slats]

Who cares about Geno being the only 'franchise' QB on the roster.  That's as meaningless as this post. And he's improved huh? Yes, somewhat and he's also on target to commit 32-40 turnovers for the year at this rate. Now thats entertainment!

Turnovers are your concern, and you want to replace Geno with Vick? How does that work?

[Bleedin Green]

Curious if anywhere in all of this, anyone has actually come up with an explanation as to why the supposed answer for replacing a QB who has sucked for just over a year is to switch to one who has sucked for 13 years.  This isn't a defense of Geno mind you, he's terrible, it's that Vick is awful too and has been for 10 times as long.  It's not exactly a coincidence that every play he's been on the field for this season has been an unmitigated disaster.  In truth, the respective defenses of each player are really no different than each other, it just seems to differ between fans which player's failures they choose to accept.

 

I totally get being unhappy with Geno, but I guess I simply can't see the reason behind clamoring for Vick to be out there, as if that's going to be any less unwatchable.  Would seem to be the ultimate example of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Green DNA]

Michael Vick is turnover machine, he has a rocket for an arm but is inaccurate.  Geno has a chance to improve, while Vick is what he is, so I don't get the logic in bringing in Vick.  If we do, we will have a plethora of Vick sucks, start Simms threads by week 8. 

[JetsFanInDenver]

Curious if anywhere in all of this, anyone has actually come up with an explanation as to why the supposed answer for replacing a QB who has sucked for just over a year is to switch to one who has sucked for 13 years.  This isn't a defense of Geno mind you, he's terrible, it's that Vick is awful too and has been for 10 times as long.  It's not exactly a coincidence that every play he's been on the field for this season has been an unmitigated disaster.  In truth, the respective defenses of each player are really no different than each other, it just seems to differ between fans which player's failures they choose to accept.

 

I totally get being unhappy with Geno, but I guess I simply can't see the reason behind clamoring for Vick to be out there, as if that's going to be any less unwatchable.  Would seem to be the ultimate example of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

The backup QB is always the most favorite player on a losing team. That's the only reason i can think of.

 

Other than that this infatuation with Vick makes no sense. He is not the long term solution at his age. He is not in his prime. In the last two seasons he has turned the ball over a lot more than his usual numbers indicate. And nowadays he gets jersey tackled. There is nothing to see here. Except he is a backup QB with name recognition.

 

There is no way Vick is an upgrade over Geno at this point. The only way Geno is replaced is if he regresses exponentially like say a Josh Freeman.

[JustInFudge]

Nobodies?  Decker, Kerley, Cumberland, they aren't really that bad. Actually quite a good efficient trio.  This weaponz argument is lame. And asking a QB to throw the ball...well I never.

How dare MW ask the QB to 'throw' the ball.  Who does he think Geno is? A QB?  Is MW some sort of idiot to expect Geno to actually play like a top flight 2nd round QB?

I mean its just unheard of.   

 

Ask any QB if he'd like the opportunity to throw the ball 35 times a game....see what he says.  Isn't that the QB's job?    

 

Decker cant stay healthy.  If Kerley and Cumberland are your go-to receivers, you WR's suck something awful.

 

And I think its cute what you're doing with the "throw the ball" thingy and the QB but when you're playing the worst run defense in the league throwing it 43 times with a turnover prone QB, its stupid.  Kind of like this stupid post you made.

[GimmeShelter]

Decker cant stay healthy.  If Kerley and Cumberland are your go-to receivers, you WR's suck something awful.

 

And I think its cute what you're doing with the "throw the ball" thingy and the QB but when you're playing the worst run defense in the league throwing it 43 times with a turnover prone QB, its stupid.  Kind of like this stupid post you made.

Which is why we need a legite replacement for Rex.

[Matt39]

fwiw on the pick 6 Colon absolutely wiffed on his assignment. It's a dumb call to begin with on the second play of the game having your QB throw a blind screen off of a spin move...but there's no real decision making on that type of screen pass, you dont tuck it on a screen. If everyone doesnt execute their assignment, it's a play that can easily end in disaster.

[RutgersJetFan]

Who cares about Geno being the only 'franchise' QB on the roster.  That's as meaningless as this post. And he's improved huh? Yes, somewhat and he's also on target to commit 32-40 turnovers for the year at this rate. Now thats entertainment!  

 

We really don't know if that's the case yet. It's been 3 games. If we are projecting that this is his trajectory for 2014 then we're saying he's on track to have a worse season than last year and one of the worst seasons for a Jets quarterback ever. Call me crazy but I really do not think he is that terrible. I'm not saying he's good, I just don't think he's as bad as he's been. The only way to know is to keep playing him, and Vick isn't better enough to think he'll win us any more games. Not with the way this entire team has been playing.

[BroadwayJoe12]

fwiw on the pick 6 Colon absolutely wiffed on his assignment. It's a dumb call to begin with on the second play of the game having your QB throw a blind screen off of a spin move...but there's no real decision making on that type of screen pass, you dont tuck it on a screen. If everyone doesnt execute their assignment, it's a play that can easily end in disaster.

 

Not trying to absolve Geno if the int, but it also looked as if CJ just sat whereas Geno seemed to want to lead him.  It's something he should have dirted, but as you mentioned, it's a blind screen after faking the bubble screen to the opposite side, he has to trust his players are in the right position.  

 

As you alluded to earlier, I also don't recall many throws where Geno wasn't on point or leading his receiver. His accuracy has greatly increased since last season and the few overthrows that I've seen have both been to Cumberland where he cuts his route off short and tries to leap for it, instead of continuing to run underneath the ball.  The camera has flashed back to Geno each time and you see him frustratingly telling him to keep running.

[Matt39]

Not trying to absolve Geno if the int, but it also looked as if CJ just sat whereas Geno seemed to want to lead him.  It's something he should have dirted, but as you mentioned, it's a blind screen after faking the bubble screen to the opposite side, he has to trust his players are in the right position.  

 

As you alluded to earlier, I also don't recall many throws where Geno wasn't on point or leading his receiver. His accuracy has greatly increased since last season and the few overthrows that I've seen have both been to Cumberland where he cuts his route off short and tries to leap for it, instead of continuing to run underneath the ball.  The camera has flashed back to Geno each time and you see him frustratingly telling him to keep running.

 

Cumberlands a lazy ass route runner. I've held out hope for him...but he's a jag.

[Jetsfan80]

If we are projecting that this is his trajectory for 2014 then we're saying he's on track to have a worse season than last year and one of the worst seasons for a Jets quarterback ever. 

 

And if that ends up being the case might as well play our way into Brett Hundley territory.

[RutgersJetFan]

And if that ends up being the case might as well play our way into Brett Hundley territory.

Exactly. If that's the case then just tank the season. There's no honor in going down swinging when you're cleaning house next year anyways.

[Powpow]

Turnovers are your concern, and you want to replace Geno with Vick? How does that work?

It works just fine.  Vick brings experience, red zone experience. He brings a winning attitude, he's a seasoned professional, he gives the team a much better chance to win. Isnt that the whole point? We have a solid nucleus on defense, a decent group on offense - we need a leader, a QB that can score points.  As much as I despise Geno, it would actually benefit him to WATCH

Vick play as he sits on the bench.  Personally, I don't think he has the maturity to handle the demotion.  

[Powpow]

We really don't know if that's the case yet. It's been 3 games. If we are projecting that this is his trajectory for 2014 then we're saying he's on track to have a worse season than last year and one of the worst seasons for a Jets quarterback ever. Call me crazy but I really do not think he is that terrible. I'm not saying he's good, I just don't think he's as bad as he's been. The only way to know is to keep playing him, and Vick isn't better enough to think he'll win us any more games. Not with the way this entire team has been playing.

Vick is exactly what this team needs now.  Its sinking - fast. Rex is on the hot seat. The schedule is brutal. By the break we could easily be 2-8 and we're on our way.  Vick could at least get us to .500 after the first 10 games and run a string when the schedule lets up later in the year.  We could end up 10-6 and in the playoffs if Vick takes over soon.  Or let Geno play it out, stink his way through the first 10 games, go 2-8, say sayonara to the playoffs, and in the last 6 games Jets go 4-2.  Record under Geno 6-10.  Oh but he played so well down the stretch. He really improved. And he had no weapons, and the schedule was so hard and MW was not molding him and and and and and .......  

[RutgersJetFan]

Vick is exactly what this team needs now.  Its sinking - fast. Rex is on the hot seat. The schedule is brutal. By the break we could easily be 2-8 and we're on our way.  Vick could at least get us to .500 after the first 10 games and run a string when the schedule lets up later in the year.  We could end up 10-6 and in the playoffs if Vick takes over soon.  Or let Geno play it out, stink his way through the first 10 games, go 2-8, say sayonara to the playoffs, and in the last 6 games Jets go 4-2.  Record under Geno 6-10.  Oh but he played so well down the stretch. He really improved. And he had no weapons, and the schedule was so hard and MW was not molding him and and and and and .......  

 

This season is a wash. 10-6 is not happening no matter who starts. Vick isn't bringing a passing game with him, and the reason you don't put Vick in now is that once you pull that trigger, there's no going back. Throwing in the towel on Geno may very well happen, but risk/reward is a real thing, and it's just dumb to conclude that this is what you're dealing with after 3 starts. With all that has been accomplished in tracking the game, we know that is simply not the way the game works.

[Powpow]

This season is a wash. 10-6 is not happening no matter who starts. Vick isn't bringing a passing game with him, and the reason you don't put Vick in now is that once you pull that trigger, there's no going back. Throwing in the towel on Geno may very well happen, but risk/reward is a real thing, and it's just dumb to conclude that this is what you're dealing with after 3 starts. With all that has been accomplished in tracking the game, we know that is simply not the way the game works.

Its not '3 starts' you have to draw a conclusion. You now have 19 starts to get a sense of what Geno brings to the table. Whats dumb is to think Geno has any greater upside than he has displayed.  That's a fact jack. It may not be the way YOU think the game is played but others do. Numerous 1st and 2nd round QB's just didn't pan out and were benched and or released QUICKLY.  The NFL is a different animal now for QB's. The rules favor their success. There is little patience now for the newbie QB.  Either put up or shut up.  Vick will eventually take over, its inevitable. Rex knows he has to do something drastic. Ye of little faith.

[dbatesman]

Its not '3 starts' you have to draw a conclusion. You now have 19 starts to get a sense of what Geno brings to the table. Whats dumb is to think Geno has any greater upside than he has displayed. That's a fact jack. It may not be the way YOU think the game is played but others do.

He's got you there, RJF.

[RutgersJetFan]

He's got you there, RJF.