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How is an O-Lineman worthy of a top 5 pick?


GlennFoley

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Think about it.. They block one person for the most part all game.. Even if they turm out amazing at blocking that one person is that really worth a top 5 pick, and a huge contract to go along with it?

What are the chances this D'Brick will be as good as Kareem Mckenzie? Why the hell woudln't we pay McKenzie if we are going to go out, and draft this D'Brick guy?

The Raiders drafted Gallery, and their Oline is still among the worst in football.. You need 5 good olineman to have a good O-line.. We won't have that next year so we might as well get someone who plays a position worthy of a top 5 pick..

The 3 potential hall of famers are gone now(Young, Leinart, and Bush), but maybe we can draft a D'Angello Williams or AJ Hawk.. Someone who has the potential be a Playmaker..

Also its not like good Olineman won't be there in round 2..

I am positive that D'Brickshaw will be a bust here.. Why? because good coaching develops good NFL lineman.. D'Brick could have all the tools in the world, but there is no coach on the Jets staff right now who can maximize his potential..

D'Brick=D'Bust 2

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Think about it.. They block one person for the most part all game.. Even if they turm out amazing at blocking that one person is that really worth a top 5 pick, and a huge contract to go along with it?

What are the chances this D'Brick will be as good as Kareem Mckenzie? Why the hell woudln't we pay McKenzie if we are going to go out, and draft this D'Brick guy?

The Raiders drafted Gallery, and their Oline is still among the worst in football.. You need 5 good olineman to have a good O-line.. We won't have that next year so we might as well get someone who plays a position worthy of a top 5 pick..

The 3 potential hall of famers are gone now(Young, Leinart, and Bush), but maybe we can draft a D'Angello Williams or AJ Hawk.. Someone who has the potential be a Playmaker..

Also its not like good Olineman won't be there in round 2..

I am positive that D'Brickshaw will be a bust here.. Why? because good coaching develops good NFL lineman.. D'Brick could have all the tools in the world, but there is no coach on the Jets staff right now who can maximize his potential..

D'Brick=D'Bust 2

agree,, top 10 picks shouldnt be wasted on OL,,,

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Your best argument against the pick is the Kareem argument. If the organization judges an O Linemen unworthy of a high salary eventhough he has proven himself to be among the best in the league then how can they draft one at number 4 and pay the salary slotted for that spot? I don't necessarily agree, but there is your argument.

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tell that ravens chiefs and seahawks that it's not worth it drafting a LT high in the draft.

All 3 of those teams had/have more then 1 very good offensive lineman..

They also all aren't sure things.. Did you Osi Umeniyoria own Walter Jones when they played?

Or Dweight Freeney run right by Jon Ogden?

The truth is that in todays game DE's are so athletic, and fast that no OT can just line up there, and maul everyone every game..

Its the evoloution of the game.. Thats why sacks have increased so much in the 2000's..

An offensive line is a unit.. With a top 5 draft pick you want to draft a guy that you can build your offense or defense around, not a guy you can build your Oline around..

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Think about it.. They block one person for the most part all game.. Even if they turm out amazing at blocking that one person is that really worth a top 5 pick, and a huge contract to go along with it?

What are the chances this D'Brick will be as good as Kareem Mckenzie? Why the hell woudln't we pay McKenzie if we are going to go out, and draft this D'Brick guy?

The Raiders drafted Gallery, and their Oline is still among the worst in football.. You need 5 good olineman to have a good O-line.. We won't have that next year so we might as well get someone who plays a position worthy of a top 5 pick..

The 3 potential hall of famers are gone now(Young, Leinart, and Bush), but maybe we can draft a D'Angello Williams or AJ Hawk.. Someone who has the potential be a Playmaker..

Also its not like good Olineman won't be there in round 2..

I am positive that D'Brickshaw will be a bust here.. Why? because good coaching develops good NFL lineman.. D'Brick could have all the tools in the world, but there is no coach on the Jets staff right now who can maximize his potential..

D'Brick=D'Bust 2

For every guy like AJ Hawk, there is a guy like Brick to neutralize him. If you can't protect your QB and open lanes (for running AND passing) you can't win.

If this season has taught us anything, protecting your QB is priority one.

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All 3 of those teams had/have more then 1 very good offensive lineman..

They also all aren't sure things.. Did you Osi Umeniyoria own Walter Jones when they played?

Or Dweight Freeney run right by Jon Ogden?

The truth is that in todays game DE's are so athletic, and fast that no OT can just line up there, and maul everyone every game..

Its the evoloution of the game.. Thats why sacks have increased so much in the 2000's..

An offensive line is a unit.. With a top 5 draft pick you want to draft a guy that you can build your offense or defense around, not a guy you can build your Oline around..

You don't buid a UNIT without a cornerstone. Every good O-line needs the cornerstone to build around it, that is the leader, that makes the rest of the players better. Great players make normal players very good players, they elevate those around them.

That is teh value of a tremendous O-lineman. Whether D-Brick is that or not is debateable. What is not, is that you don't need a great O-lineman compared to other positions.

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If you guys fail to see the value of offensive linemen, you just don't understand this game

Amen.

I can understand the arguement in terms Guards and Centers. Good coaching can turn them into quality/All-pro caliber players if they have a good combination of intangibles and physical ability already (i.e Chiefs All Pro LG Brian Waters).

However, Tackles...specifically Left Tackles...if you want to find a good one...meaning one that can anchor your oline for years like say a Willie Roaf, Orlando Pace, Walter Jones, or Jonathan Ogden then you best be prepared to invest a 1st rd pick on one.

This upcoming draft is unusually deep at OT. So if the Jets pass on Ferguson (a rare talent at the position...uncommon athletic ability for an LT) then you guys can probably nab one early in rd 2. So i think I think the original poster has a point somewhat in that the Jets don't necessarily need to take Ferguson with their 1st pick. But to belittle the worth of Olinemen in the draft, particularly the first round, isn't smart.

Building a stellar line isn't going to happen in one draft. You find you rock and then add other pieces in the following yrs via FA/Draft until you have a solid unit. That's one thing about the Chiefs, they place very high importance on having a quality OLine and have so since '89.

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If you guys fail to see the value of offensive linemen, you just don't understand this game

Amen.

I can understand the arguement in terms of Guards and Centers. Good coaching can turn them into quality/All-pro caliber players if they have a good combination of intangibles and physical ability already (i.e Chiefs All Pro LG Brian Waters).

However, Tackles...specifically Left Tackles...if you want to find a good one...meaning one that can anchor your oline for years like say a Willie Roaf, Orlando Pace, Walter Jones, or Jonathan Ogden then you best be prepared to invest a 1st rd pick on one.

This upcoming draft is unusually deep at OT. So if the Jets pass on Ferguson (a rare talent at the position...uncommon athletic ability for an LT) then you guys can probably nab one early in rd 2. So i think the original poster has a point somewhat in that the Jets don't necessarily need to take Ferguson with their 1st pick. But to belittle the worth of Olinemen in the draft, particularly the first round, isn't smart.

Building a stellar oline isn't going to happen in one draft. You find you rock and then add other pieces in the following yrs via FA/Draft until you have a solid unit. That's one thing about the Chiefs, they place very high importance on having a quality OLine and have so since '89.

EDIT!: Sorry for the Triple Post Guys!

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I don't dispute the value of paying that kind of money to a premiere LT. BUT at this point D'Brick is a premiere PROSPECT. Shell out this kind of money ($20M sign bonus) for a premiere LT after you KNOW he's premiere, not for the potential of premiere after getting over his learning curve.

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Munoz, Ogden, Pace, Jumbo, Jacoby et all all were in place for Super Bowl teams. Yes, you can find OL help late in the draft(I'm not even sure Jacoby was drafted). But guys with thes pedigrees like Walter Jones mean their teams can protect their QB's blind side and depend on him blowing his guy back for some tough yards. This "OL doesn't matter" is how QBs and RBs are ineffective, hurt or both.

if Bush or leinart drops into the Jets laps, great. If not D'Brick or someone like him would be a solid way to improve a unit that Bradway and Edwards treated with indifference while they loaded up on questionable DBs and DL guys by the truckload.

This board and the old country was loaded with contempt for picks like Dan Koppen, Logan Mankins, Dave Diehl, and Chris Snee; why haven't the Jets drafted anyone like that in forever? Instead we got Coleman, Rhodes, Miller, Mcgraw, Harper, Pagel, Puoha, et al-none of whom is anything better than average, and many of these picks sucked. may be our QB wouldnt' ahev turned into a kewpee doll and Martin might not have been hurt either.

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You guys make it sound like you need a Willy Roaf, Jon Ogden, Orlando Pace, Walter Jones, etc.. to go to the superbowl..

I don't see any of those 4 players on the Pats..

If you want to build an offense you follow the Colts method.. They drafted the skill players first (Harrison, Manning, James), and then very quietly built/developed a very good Oline.. They did it without top 5 picks as well..

Look at the Patriots, or the Broncos, or the Falcons.. I don't believe they have any olineman who were top 10 draftpicks..

Plus I thought other then that game in Miami Adrian Jones was solid at Left Tackle.. He needs to get a little bit bigger, but for the most part he held his ground.. I didn't see Schobel(a premier pass rusher on the Bills) got anywhere near the QB going up against Jones..

Maybe we can draft a top guard in the 2nd round, and have Morley start in place of Gragg/Fatbini next year..

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You guys make it sound like you need a Willy Roaf, Jon Ogden, Orlando Pace, Walter Jones, etc.. to go to the superbowl..

I don't see any of those 4 players on the Pats..

If you want to build an offense you follow the Colts method.. They drafted the skill players first (Harrison, Manning, James), and then very quietly built/developed a very good Oline.. They did it without top 5 picks as well..

Look at the Patriots, or the Broncos, or the Falcons.. I don't believe they have any olineman who were top 10 draftpicks..

Plus I thought other then that game in Miami Adrian Jones was solid at Left Tackle.. He needs to get a little bit bigger, but for the most part he held his ground.. I didn't see Schobel(a premier pass rusher on the Bills) got anywhere near the QB going up against Jones..

Maybe we can draft a top guard in the 2nd round, and have Morley start in place of Gragg/Fatbini next year..

I think Adrian Jones will end up being a very good NFL left tackle.

But thats not what we're disputing here. What your saying is Left tackles arent that important, and thats not true.

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You guys make it sound like you need a Willy Roaf, Jon Ogden, Orlando Pace, Walter Jones, etc.. to go to the superbowl..

I don't see any of those 4 players on the Pats..

If you want to build an offense you follow the Colts method.. They drafted the skill players first (Harrison, Manning, James), and then very quietly built/developed a very good Oline.. They did it without top 5 picks as well..

Look at the Patriots, or the Broncos, or the Falcons.. I don't believe they have any olineman who were top 10 draftpicks..

Plus I thought other then that game in Miami Adrian Jones was solid at Left Tackle.. He needs to get a little bit bigger, but for the most part he held his ground.. I didn't see Schobel(a premier pass rusher on the Bills) got anywhere near the QB going up against Jones..

Maybe we can draft a top guard in the 2nd round, and have Morley start in place of Gragg/Fatbini next year..

agree again,, u have better chance of solid OL in later rounds than stud skill player,,,

get the skill position if pickin in top10,,always,,,

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O/T are the stuff you need to succeed in the NFL. If yoou can draft a high quality one, you do. No 2 ways about it.

Look at Coles this year. Are you telling me he was so much worse then his last time around here, 3 years ago? No. The issue was the all our Q/Bs were under pressure from the snap, and they never had a chance to get Lav the ball. We had no running game, because as soon as Curtis or Cedric got the handoff, the defensive linemen were already in the backfield.

Get me a solid line. We have decent talent at the skill positions already. But we need a line, badly.

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O/T are the stuff you need to succeed in the NFL. If yoou can draft a high quality one, you do. No 2 ways about it.

Look at Coles this year. Are you telling me he was so much worse then his last time around here, 3 years ago? No. The issue was the all our Q/Bs were under pressure from the snap, and they never had a chance to get Lav the ball. We had no running game, because as soon as Curtis or Cedric got the handoff, the defensive linemen were already in the backfield.

Get me a solid line. We have decent talent at the skill positions already. But we need a line, badly.

thjats right its important, but u can get in lower rounds

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I think Adrian Jones will end up being a very good NFL left tackle.

But thats not what we're disputing here. What your saying is Left tackles arent that important, and thats not true.

Offensive line is important, but its not something you have to build with 1st round draft choices.. Especially top 5 picks..

In the Jets case, when you have bad Wide Recivers, Bad QB, Bad HB you really don't have the luxury of taking an offensive lineman with a top 5 pick..

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O/T are the stuff you need to succeed in the NFL. If yoou can draft a high quality one, you do. No 2 ways about it.

Look at Coles this year. Are you telling me he was so much worse then his last time around here, 3 years ago? No. The issue was the all our Q/Bs were under pressure from the snap, and they never had a chance to get Lav the ball. We had no running game, because as soon as Curtis or Cedric got the handoff, the defensive linemen were already in the backfield.

Get me a solid line. We have decent talent at the skill positions already. But we need a line, badly.

What are you smoking? We have decent talent at the skill positions? Who? Brooks Bollinger? Justin McCariens? Coles has lost a step.. Chad and Curtis are shells of themselves.. Cedric Houston looks promising, but worthy of a starting job at this point in his career..

You can argue that the skill players were what made the offensive line look bad... Notice how our offense was better after Curtis was put on IR?

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It's not so much that the Jets should or sholdn't take a LT with he top pick; they don't bother taking any OL guys at all in the early rounds under this regime.

There aren't many surprises or lucky finds int he late rounds at these positions. You aren't going to build a great or even decent OL with Crapvaka,Yovonivitz, Goodwin and Mo, Larry and Curly off the street. And that's been the MO of Bradway/Edwards.

Bradway has never drafted an OL as high as Chris Snee or Logan Mankins-2nd and 1st rounders.I believe Koppen was a midrounder. So when you say the Pats don't build the OL through the draft you're simply wrong. In fact, McKenize might bwe the highest Bradway's ever taken an OL, and everyone else -Jones, Goodwin, Crapvaka, Yovonivitz-were after the 5th. Again, all the while the Jets wre loading up in the DB and DL instead of getting Mankins, Diehl, Snee, Koppen-the building blocks of a good offense. .

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What are you smoking? We have decent talent at the skill positions? Who? Brooks Bollinger? Justin McCariens? Coles has lost a step.. Chad and Curtis are shells of themselves.. Cedric Houston looks promising, but worthy of a starting job at this point in his career..

You can argue that the skill players were what made the offensive line look bad... Notice how our offense was better after Curtis was put on IR?

Glenn I suggest that you look at the line play when you suggest that they played better without Curtis. You REALLY thought they blocked decently?

Please tell me this isn't so. NO-One can NOT argue that the skill players made the line look bad. They EARNED that distinction.

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Offensive line is important, but its not something you have to build with 1st round draft choices.. Especially top 5 picks

No, but if Oline is a need and you have a rare Talent at OT...particularly an LT... sitting there amongst the top 5 picks then you don't pass him up. Doing so will only set your franchise back.

As I said earlier in my triple post, qaulity Interior Olinemen you can find in the mid to later rounds. Brian Waters was undrafted and Will Shields was a 3rd rd pick. But Left Tackles are the exception. It's a premium position in this league. You look around the league and you'd be hard-pressed to find an All_pro caliber left tackle that wasn't drafted in the 1st rd, let alone on the first day of the draft.

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It's not so much that the Jets should or sholdn't take a LT with he top pick; they don't bother taking any OL guys at all in the early rounds under this regime.

There aren't many surprises or lucky finds int he late rounds at these positions. You aren't going to build a great or even decent OL with Crapvaka,Yovonivitz, Goodwin and Mo, Larry and Curly off the street. And that's been the MO of Bradway/Edwards.

Bradway has never drafted an OL as high as Chris Snee or Logan Mankins-2nd and 1st rounders.I believe Koppen was a midrounder. So when you say the Pats don't build the OL through the draft you're simply wrong. In fact, McKenize might bwe the highest Bradway's ever taken an OL, and everyone else -Jones, Goodwin, Crapvaka, Yovonivitz-were after the 5th. Again, all the while the Jets wre loading up in the DB and DL instead of getting Mankins, Diehl, Snee, Koppen-the building blocks of a good offense. .

I don't think you realize that taking this D'Brick fella would be the biggest risk in the draft..

You are not only wasting your pick on him, but you're breaking the bank for him assuming that he will be Jon Ogden.. If you're picked in the top 5 as an Olineman you better be Jon Ogden

The last 2 top 5 OT haven't lived up to the expectations.. Robert Gallery and Mike Williams have been underwhelming to say the least.. I don't see much of a difference in D'Brickashaw.. Obviously D'Brickashaw didn't have the college career that Walter Jones and Orlando Pace had..

SouthernJet is the only one with common sense on this board..

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