Who would you rather, Idzik or Tanny?

[#27TheDominator]

You should be a professional talent evaluater considering you can label draft picks as busts 4 games into there rookie season.

 

You can't judge Saunders and Boyd?  Dixon and George are on other teams, we can't judge that?  Enunwa is a player at a position of weakness where we have injury concerns (Decker, Nelson) - and he sits on the practice squad while the team brings in another team's 6th rounder (Powell), bust (Graham) and UDFA stiff (Owusu).  Can we judge these players?  That is almost half the draft.

[BurnleyJet]

I still think this is totally about preparing for the next Coach. Idzik's coach. Watch the Jets spend Big next off season when "His Boy" is in place.

[Lizard King]

I don't personally care that he's cutting picks and turning the roster over, but what is a little concerning is that he wasn't picking best player available this year, he had been picking specific positions and that is not encouraging.

[JerryK]

My opinion of Tanny's personality is based on what I saw of him on Hard Knocks, which I *admit* was limited and could have been manipulated by the show's producers.  

But here it is:    He's a nice guy, but he's a poor negotiator and he overpays.

 

Idzik won't overpay, so that's good.  Now that he has a bucket of money, does he have the charisma (or whatever unknown negotiating prowess it takes) to sign great players?

Insufficient data. I need 2 more seasons to find out, and I'm willing to wait.

 

But one thing's for sure.. Idzik is under enormous media pressure to win EVERY year, and he doesn't cave to that pressure and dump his wallet open.  For better or worse, I respect his resolve.

[#27TheDominator]

Again, I apologize I also wasn't aware that a good quality GM was supposed to bat .750 in the draft to be acceptable? Or is it .500, .400??

 

Whats the number of the 12 draft picks that should have already proven to be long term players for us from the 2014 draft for you to be satisfied with Idzik?

 

What do other organizations bat in the draft?

 

The draft always will be a crap shoot, but the more at bats you have the more of a chance you have at landing, Sherman's, and Wilson's, and Thurmans, and Chancellor's and Thomas's.... all in mid to late rounds. Oh wait that's the legion of boom and there superbowl champion QB. But I'm sure the way that team was built was a fluke. The Raiders way of just throwing money at the problem has a much better track record. Ask Dennis Allen.

 

 

Okay.  You can't totally kill the 2014 draft just yet.  I agree with that, but you can certainly be concerned with the fact that more than half the picks will not see the field this year in any capactiy. That is particularly worrying considering that most of them - Saunders, IK, Reilly, Dixon seemed to be chosen with any eye towards special teams ability.  If there are developmental picks and they don't all develop fine, but when they are cut outright it is a problem.  Either the picks just suck or it was stupid to try for 12 because you can't carry that many.  Maybe both. 

[jgb]

My opinion of Tanny's personality is based on what I saw of him on Hard Knocks, which I *admit* was limited and could have been manipulated by the show's producers.  

But here it is:    He's a nice guy, but he's a poor negotiator and he overpays.

 

Idzik won't overpay, so that's good.  Now that he has a bucket of money, does he have the charisma (or whatever unknown negotiating prowess it takes) to sign great players?

Insufficient data. I need 2 more seasons to find out, and I'm willing to wait.

 

But one thing's for sure.. Idzik is under enormous media pressure to win EVERY year, and he doesn't cave to that pressure and dump his wallet open.  For better or worse, I respect his resolve.

 

I think Tanny suffered from target fixation: he decided who he wanted and then he would not be beaten for his guy. Idzik, based on a tiny sample size, makes his own determination of value and that's it. I believe you need a balanced approach--come up with a value, but allow that number to move based on current market forces.

[slats]

I don't personally care that he's cutting picks and turning the roster over, but what is a little concerning is that he wasn't picking best player available this year, he had been picking specific positions and that is not encouraging.

Yes, this is a concern. If you're building thru the draft, you stick to a BAP philosophy. That's the only way to do it. I thought that's why we brought this adult into the room. Instead, the Jets drafted 3 WRs and 2 CBs -obvious positions of need- and none of them are contributing this year.

[JetsFanInDenver]

So here are the JETS fans reactions

 

When Tanny is the GM:

 

He is clueless, we are always in salary cap hell, trades away draft picks, when was the last time we had all the picks in a draft, always overpays, wish we had a guy who would negotiate and so on.

 

So when the JETS hire Idzik as the GM:

 

The reactions are why is he managing the salary cap so conservatively,  he has too many draft picks, he did not overpay for that CB and wish we had a guy who could throw some money around, always has to negotiate to get the best deal possible. Wish we had a Tanny at the helm.

[jgb]

So here are the JETS fans reactions

 

When Tanny is the GM:

 

He is clueless, we are always in salary cap hell, trades away draft picks, when was the last time we had all the picks in a draft, always overpays, wish we had a guy who would negotiate and so on.

 

So when the JETS hire Idzik as the GM:

 

The reactions are why is he managing the salary cap so conservatively,  he has too many draft picks, he did not overpay for that CB and wish we had a guy who could throw some money around, always has to negotiate to get the best deal possible. Wish we had a Tanny at the helm.

 

let's all take a pilgrimage to roscoe's diner

[stevegrunder]

Tanny's flaw was he did not recognize that he did not have a HC in Rex who could make organizational decisions. The reason Tanny spent the way he did, and re-upped is because the whole organization thought they were closer than they really were, and saw it as a window. Hell, Rex was telling everyone that.

 

Tanny with a HC who was better at organization direction, and not so vested in one side of the ball, might have been a good combo, kind of like Paoli and Bellicheck.

 

Idzik is just a dolt. And its not a surprise either, Woody limited the talent pool by making GM decisions before hiring a GM. No good candidate is going to deal with that crap.

 

Idzik is in way over his head, and it is likely too late for him to succeed. He will likely get another year, but if Geno does not magically become pretty good, he is screwed. You don't get good QB's in FA, and you won't draft one who will be good right away.

[jgb]

I'm sure they tried to trade some of those picks, but if the offers weren't good enough you have to have the balls to walk away from the table. Just like the players we didn't sign in the offseason. Idzik has to build a reputation as a negotiator. If he gets the label of push over then other teams will prey on us. There were multiple offers for Revis and he held out for a top 20 pick which is the value he put on Revis. Eventually that idiot in Tampa paid up and we landed Richardson.

As for the picks who have been cut, or injured, look at the Seattle drafts from when Idzik was part of their front office. The 1st rounder is a bust, 2nd rounder solid, 3rd and 4th only last 2 seasons, 5th solid, 6th Richard Sherman JACKPOT!!!!!!!!!

That's the way it goes. You need to chip away at the stone and bring in any player who you think can help and see who sticks.

So Idzik's strategy is to hold out for an idiot come along. What about when there isn't one?

[jgb]

That's not what I said. The guy in Tampa was an idiot, just because.

I agree with this philosophy. I wouldn't have traded Revis for a 2nd rounder, and from what I read there were a ton of offers in that range. For that price I'd keep him. But if you put a top 20 on the table, it's a no brainer.

They also said there were weeks of negotiation regarding Ivory. The Saints wanted a 3rd or better. Idzik was stuck on a 5th. But he compromised and got us a guy who is unquestionably performing as a top 10 back this season for a 4th rounder. Excellent negotiation. Reminds me of what Seattle did with Lynch.

Those were good trades but to be fair neither of them were critical moves. Getting CB help was and he slow played it the same way. He had time to work a deal to move Revis and to get ivory. Free agents sign when they get the offer they want. Idzik needs to learn situational negotiation.

[billo83]

I'm sure they tried to trade some of those picks, but if the offers weren't good enough you have to have the balls to walk away from the table. Just like the players we didn't sign in the offseason. Idzik has to build a reputation as a negotiator. If he gets the label of push over then other teams will prey on us. There were multiple offers for Revis and he held out for a top 20 pick which is the value he put on Revis. Eventually that idiot in Tampa paid up and we landed Richardson.

As for the picks who have been cut, or injured, look at the Seattle drafts from when Idzik was part of their front office. The 1st rounder is a bust, 2nd rounder solid, 3rd and 4th only last 2 seasons, 5th solid, 6th Richard Sherman JACKPOT!!!!!!!!!

That's the way it goes. You need to chip away at the stone and bring in any player who you think can help and see who sticks.

 

The problem is that Idz is too extreme the other way. From what I read, he has the reputation of not budging an inch. That will hurt him when it comes to making trades or signing FA's. Do you think other GM's or player reps are going to want to bother with a guy that with that kind of rep? That's probably why he wasn't able to trade up even with a boat load of picks.

 

So he wasn't able to trade up, and the CB talent has actually gotten worse from last season despite having over 20 million cap space. Plus he didn't do enough at the WR position. All of this is bad enough but the fact that he was banking on a rookie draft pick to take over the CB2 slot (eventually taking over for the injury prone and never was Patterson) is ludicrous to say the least. He's too extreme in the opposite direction from Tanny, and is incompetent in this role IMO. Hope I'm wrong. 

[jgb]

We could have outbid any other team and could have had ANY player we wanted in free agency. Timing had nothing to do with it. Overpaying effects your team down the road. You have to run your team factoring in multiple seasons at once.

My point is your can't go to an auction and raise your paddle once and only once at the beginning and hope to win. Ivory and Revis were not auctions they were one on one negotiations. Big difference.

[legler82]

Tanny can make the picks and Idzik the contracts.

[Smashmouth]

Well, the Jets needed a WR for their young QB. S was a head scratcher, even though Pryor might have a nice career.  The 2 WR's that were taken in the 1st round after Pryor are having very strong years, Benjamin and Cooks.  Teddy Bridgewater looked very good too.  Jordan Matthews too.  Dennard, they guy I wanted, playing really well in Cinci.

 

FWIW and I dont think it really matters much but every Safety taken after Pryor in the 1st has more tackles than him. 

This team has needed WR's VIA THE DRAFT for 10 years through Tanny and now Idzik yet we continue to ignore them in the first 3 rounds. The WR situation became even more of a glaring weakness during the Rex Years yet we still refuse to draft one and keep reaching in the later rounds. In a league where passing the football continues to become more prevalent the Jets just continue to go in the wrong direction. In a league where teams surround their QB's with super talent the Jets are still in the "pick off the scrap heap" discussion while our QB's get very little help. Sure Decker is a solid WR but he not a match up nightmare like a Maclin who was there for the taking with a decent offer. A tandem of Maclin and Decker would have totally transformed this offense and gave us a real read on Geno instead we have Sanchez part 2 and I cant help but think if we get another QB the same crap happens...... when Geno totally fails did we didn't do these guys a huge disservice and just terribly fail at developing 2 QB's ?

[Smashmouth]

Tanny can make the picks and Idzik the contracts.

Under Parcells Tanny was fantastic working the cap. This was not about his math skills it was about a guy trying to emulate  Parcells and he just could not do it since Parcells was a master at filling in holes on our roster

[Smashmouth]

Tanzik or Idznny

 

same crap different day

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

Yes, this is a concern. If you're building thru the draft, you stick to a BAP philosophy. That's the only way to do it. I thought that's why we brought this adult into the room. Instead, the Jets drafted 3 WRs and 2 CBs -obvious positions of need- and none of them are contributing this year.

 

Best player available applies to the first couple of rounds, not to the late rounds where we took most of those guys. Hitting on any pick is a function of ability and opportunity. As you get deeper in the draft the talent disparities diminish and need becomes more of a consideration.

[Smashmouth]

Best player available applies to the first couple of rounds, not to the late rounds where we took most of those guys. Hitting on any pick is a function of ability and opportunity. As you get deeper in the draft the talent disparities diminish and need becomes more of a consideration.

Been saying this for years this BAP bullsh*t is just that bullsh*t