Glad to hear Namath's opinion again. We gotta hang in there.

[BlakeSpenceBlockedPunt]

Considering the fact that for the first two years of his career (as the #1 pick in the draft) his totals were:

• Record of 8-11-3 as a starter.  A 36% winning percentage.
• 37 TD's and 42 INT's.  7 fumbles. A 48.8.% completion percentage.  

His numbers for the first three complete years as the starting QB:

• 16-16-4 record.
• 63 TD's and 70 INT's.  9 fumbles.  50.2 completion percentage.

 

5 winning years out of 13 as a starter.

 

I guess all things being equal we would have blamed everything on Broadway Joe and been clamoring for a QB change.

 

It's amazing what you learn when you look at the data/facts on a player.

 

When you look at Geno compared to other QB's at the similar stage in their careers he is not too far off base.  He can throw in a throwing league.  He is a pocket passer yet mobile.  He's not crushing our salary cap.  He's 9-11 as a starter.  

 

We may have something here that can work for a long time if we give it a chance to play out.  Look what happened with Namath.  Years 4 and 5 were fantastic.  It takes some time people...

 

 

[JustInFudge]

I wasnt 100% paying attention but I think Namath was a guest on Inside the NFL and he doesnt seem to be  too high on Geno.  He did say, they need more time to evaluate but it sounded like he was very meh, on Geno's overall skills, ability and future in the NFL.

[AFJF]

The game has changed so much that we may as well compare it to Joe Dimaggio's rookie season.  The game favors passing so much that it seems total passing yards records are being broken every year, and now they've added more penalties to make it that much easier on the QB's.

 

My thing with Geno is this...there is chance that he will be a good QB in this league.  Right now, he is not a good QB or he would not be leading the league in turnovers and unable to get it done in the red zone.  When you have a team that is losing games by one score on a weekly basis, a huge upgrade at QB is not necessary.  You just  need a moderate increase in performance from the position.  If Geno had played just a little bit better this season, the Jets could easily be 4-0.  If they were losing the way many predicted, as in multiple TD losses becuase of a terrible CB situation, I'd have no issues sticking with the kid to  let him develop.  Building for the future and all that stuff is wonderful.  I've wanted that from the Jets for years.  Get young players and let them play, grow, and develop.  However, given how difficult it is to win in the NFL, I feel that if you're starting the worst QB in the NFL (based on turnovers and PFF rankings) and you keep losing by one or two scores, you go to the next guy.  Now, is it entirely possible that Michael Vick is worse than Geno Smith? Sure, I'll play that game...maybe he is.  Maybe  he'd turn it over 30 times instead of 25 or so, but until he plays, we don't know.  What we do know, is that he's still playing, and the Jets are still losing.  Let a QB take his lumps when winning is out of the question.  When you're among the best teams in the NFL at running the ball and stopping the run, why not try to upgrade the position and possibly win some of these games?

 

People are acting as if slightly improved QB play would have no impact on the outcome of these games, when in reality it could make all the difference.

[kay_gee]

here's what this thread is going to devolve into:

A: Namath is an alcoholic who played a long time ago so his opinion and knowledge of football is irrelevant! And he's too negative and mean! he hates the Jets!

B: He is our only SB winning QB and has forgotten more about football than most guys will ever know! He's right about a lot of stuff!

A: Rinse

B: Repeat

I am usually on Team B.

[BlakeSpenceBlockedPunt]

The game has changed so much that we may as well compare it to Joe Dimaggio's rookie season.  The game favors passing so much that it seems total passing yards records are being broken every year, and now they've added more penalties to make it that much easier on the QB's.

 

My thing with Geno is this...there is chance that he will be a good QB in this league.  Right now, he is not a good QB or he would not be leading the league in turnovers and unable to get it done in the red zone.  When you have a team that is losing games by one score on a weekly basis, a huge upgrade at QB is not necessary.  You just  need a moderate increase in performance from the position.  If Geno had played just a little bit better this season, the Jets could easily be 4-0.  If they were losing the way many predicted, as in multiple TD losses becuase of a terrible CB situation, I'd have no issues sticking with the kid to  let him develop.  Building for the future and all that stuff is wonderful.  I've wanted that from the Jets for years.  Get young players and let them play, grow, and develop.  However, given how difficult it is to win in the NFL, I feel that if you're starting the worst QB in the NFL (based on turnovers and PFF rankings) and you keep losing by one or two scores, you go to the next guy.  Now, is it entirely possible that Michael Vick is worse than Geno Smith? Sure, I'll play that game...maybe he is.  Maybe  he'd turn it over 30 times instead of 25 or so, but until he plays, we don't know.  What we do know, is that he's still playing, and the Jets are still losing.  Let a QB take his lumps when winning is out of the question.  When you're among the best teams in the NFL at running the ball and stopping the run, why not try to upgrade the position and possibly win some of these games?

 

People are acting as if slightly improved QB play would have no impact on the outcome of these games, when in reality it could make all the difference.

 

 

Sure would be nice if our defense would participate.  A turnover perhaps?  A stop when we finally get momentum perhaps?  

[Jetlife33]

Namath is an alcoholic who played a long time ago so his opinion and knowledge of football is irrelevant! And he's too negative and mean! he hates the Jets!

[AFJF]

Sure would be nice if our defense would participate.  A turnover perhaps?  A stop when we finally get momentum perhaps?  

 

Based on the fact that they don't have any CB's in a pass happy league while facing some of the best QB's in said league, I'm gonna give them a little wiggle room.  Apart from Milliner completely screwing the pooch against GB, the DB's have outperformed their expectations.  Geno has a great running game and very good pass protection and even when given time, can't get it done.  Maybe things will get better as Amaro gets worked in and Decker gets healthy.  Once that happens, he'll have three legit targets in Decker/Amaro/Kerley...but up to  now, his performance has been very meh...and they've only needed it to be slightly better than meh.

[dbatesman]

Namath has no use for Rex or Geno, IIRC.

[faba]

When Joe Namath isn't needling the Jets on Twitter or wondering aloud why he still doesn't have a job in the organization, he's out making statements that explain why he doesn't have a job with the organization.

Namath was at the Grand Hyatt in Midtown Manhattan on Tuesday to announce the creation of the Joe Namath Neurological Research at Jupiter Medical Center.

And with brains being the topic of the day, Namath wondered mostly about the brains behind the Jets

With the team in disarray at 1-3 and fans pointing fingers at a mistake-prone quarterback, a head coach who has pledged his loyalty to that quarterback, and a general manager who has fielded a mediocre team while leaving cap space unspent, Namath weighed in, because ... well, living legends always have the answers when their teams are in turmoil.

Then again, when you're the last guy to deliver a Super Bowl championship for a franchise (and that was 45 years ago), you pretty much have permission to rip anyone you want.

Namath on Geno Smith: “From what I’ve seen, and I’ve said this before, I don’t see anything outstanding in his passing ability or his footwork or his speed or his quickness.

Namath on Eric Decker: “If Geno’s offensive line played a little bit better, he’ll play better. If the guys caught every ball they touched, then he’d play better. We bring in a top-notch receiver from Denver [Eric Decker], two times he dropped the ball in the last game that would’ve kept the drive going.”

Namath on Geno Smith cursing out a fan: “I made that mistake. Emotions come out sometimes, man. It’s immature. … You don’t get a lesson until you live through it.”

Namath on Jets unspent cap space: “I heard about this extra money that they have. I don’t know what they’re saving it for myself, looking at the talent they have out there right now. I don’t think [Rex Ryan] has been sabotaged. I think they all want to win. Knowing how to go about it is something that may need to be changed.”

Namath on GM John Idzik: “School’s out. We’d like to have seen a better team out there, better personnel out there in some spots. Wide receiver, defensive backs. Injuries get in the way, ya know, guys haven’t developed that they have picked.

“You got to find the right men to play the game, and why [is it] some teams stay in the hunt more than others year in and year out? It’s the people that are making decisions. It starts at the top.”

[Kleckineau]

He is our only SB winning QB and has forgotten more about football than most guys will ever know! He's right about a lot of stuff!

[Integrity28]

Namath has no use for Rex or Geno, IIRC.

 

In the end, Namath will be proven right.

[BlakeSpenceBlockedPunt]

The teams at the top have consistency at the QB position AND play very good defense.  We've had terrible QB play and declining defensive performance.

[Warfish]

We may have something here that can work for a long time if we give it a chance to play out.  Look what happened with Namath.  Years 4 and 5 were fantastic.  It takes some time people...

Literally word for word the same arguments used to defend starting Mark Sanchez for four season.

So lets get down to it, how many years are you suggesting a QB MUST be given to show proper and appropriate "time" to allow him the chance (no matter how slim) to develop before it's appropriate to judge his poor play or for fans to want to move on and try another option?

Three full seasons then? Four? Five?

Give us the number, because this "Geno is just like Namath/Manning/Christ in their first year" argument is wearing thin.

How many years/games before we can want to move on, please?

[jgb]

namath had wepins

[BlakeSpenceBlockedPunt]

Literally word for word the same arguments used to defend starting Mark Sanchez for four season.

So lets get down to it, how many years are you suggesting a QB MUST be given to show proper and appropriate "time" to allow him the chance (no matter how slim) to develop before it's appropriate to judge his poor play or for fans to want to move on and try another option?

Three full seasons then? Four? Five?

Give us the number, because this "Geno is just like Namath/Manning/Christ in their first year" argument is wearing thin.

How many years/games before we can want to move on, please?

 

More than 20.  No more than 40.  If can't lay claim to QB position by game 40 move on.

 

I like Geno's ability to throw from the pocket, to move around when needed and he has improved last year to this year.  

 

He needs to continue improving to keep his job.

 

But you also have to consider the fact that the other parts of our team have significantly underperformed to a greater degree.  Defense.  Specials.  Just as bad, maybe worse...much more talent.

[jgb]

More than 20.  No more than 40.  If can't lay claim to QB position by game 40 move on.

 

I like Geno's ability to throw from the pocket, to move around when needed and he has improved last year to this year.  

 

He needs to continue improving to keep his job.

 

But you also have to consider the fact that the other parts of our team have significantly underperformed to a greater degree.  Defense.  Specials.  Just as bad, maybe worse...much more talent.

 

the hallmark of rex defenses' have been the big letdown moment i will grant you that, but consider that the team has generally been in those positions because the offense can't score more than 15 points on a regular basis and the defense has been on the field 60%+ of the game.

 

my biggest knock on the defense is its inability to create turnovers. but they have given us a chance in the 4th quarter against packers/lions/bears, so it's hard to say they are one of our biggest problems at the moment.

[Kevin L]

Why does anyone care what a guy with a 50% completion percentage and more career INTs than TDs thinks about our QB?

[kay_gee]

it's like I'm clairvoyant.

[#27TheDominator]

here's what this thread is going to devolve into:

A: Namath is an alcoholic who played a long time ago so his opinion and knowledge of football is irrelevant! And he's too negative and mean! he hates the Jets!

B: He is our only SB winning QB and has forgotten more about football than most guys will ever know! He's right about a lot of stuff!

A: Rinse

B: Repeat

I am usually on Team B.

 

 

The trouble with this place is that we spend too much time repeating and not enough time rinsing. 

[Larz]

joe is in town to stump hyperbaric oxygen chambers

 

he knows getting in the news allows him to do his job and move merch

[jgb]

Why does anyone care what a guy with a 50% completion percentage and more career INTs than TDs thinks about our QB?

 

Johnny Unitas: 290/253, 54.6%

Bart Starr: 152/136, 57.4%

 

was just a different time then. Unitas and Starr wouldn't be considered all time greats or be in the HOF with these numbers today but before advent of West Coast offense and all the rules changes benefitting receivers, these were considered elite numbers.

[Kevin L]

Johnny Unitas: 290/253, 54.6%

Bart Starr: 152/136, 57.4%

was just a different time then. Unitas and Starr wouldn't be considered all time greats or be in the HOF with these numbers today but before advent of West Coast offense and all the rules changes benefitting receivers, these were considered elite numbers.

I get that but 7 seasons under 50%. 7. Just don't get why people treat him like an authority on good quarterbacking.

[jgb]

I get that but 7 seasons under 50%. 7. Just don't get why people treat him like an authority on good quarterbacking.

 

Marc Trestman college stats (he never played in NFL): 0/1, 24.2%

[The Crusher]

here's what this thread is going to devolve into:

A: Namath is an alcoholic who played a long time ago so his opinion and knowledge of football is irrelevant! And he's too negative and mean! he hates the Jets!

B: He is our only SB winning QB and has forgotten more about football than most guys will ever know! He's right about a lot of stuff!

A: Rinse

B: Repeat

I am usually on Team B.

 

45 years later and the guy is STILL the face of the franchise.  Tells you enough if your listening.  

[RutgersJetFan]

Extensions for everyone!

[SoFlaJets]

Do you notice how this is becoming an issue more and more as the season digresses?  

 

 

Namath on Jets unspent cap space: “I heard about this extra money that they have. I don’t know what they’re saving it for myself, looking at the talent they have out there right now. I don’t think [Rex Ryan] has been sabotaged. I think they all want to win. Knowing how to go about it is something that may need to be changed.”

 

Namath on GM John Idzik: “School’s out. We’d like to have seen a better team out there, better personnel out there in some spots. Wide receiver, defensive backs. Injuries get in the way, ya know, guys haven’t developed that they have picked.

 

“You got to find the right men to play the game, and why [is it] some teams stay in the hunt more than others year in and year out? It’s the people that are making decisions. It starts at the top.”

 

and the tippy top is NOT the GM, it's the owner who is more concerned about political football than pigkin football and it's a shame and it also SHOWS

[Il Mostro]

I saw Joe on CNBC yesterday.  He was primarily speaking about efforts to reduce head trauma injuries and rehab from those injuries.  Of course they asked him about domestic abuse, Goodell and the Geno situation.  He seemed waffled on any comments regarding the Jets.  It seemed like they had trouble getting him off the set after a break -- he was off camera but the hosts had to tell him "no, we're done".  I had visions of his Suzy Kolber routine but for the financial news crowd. My childhood hero is a bonafide ass clown.

[kay_gee]

45 years later and the guy is STILL the face of the franchise.  Tells you enough if your listening.  

 

 

seriously.

[kay_gee]

 

and the tippy top is NOT the GM, it's the owner who is more concerned about political football than pigkin football and it's a shame and it also SHOWS

 

 

 

I think everyone is now aware that Woody put both Idzik and Rex into a situation that they are making the best of but are deeply uncomfortable in. Idzik will outlast Rex and everyone knows it, but it is absolutely ridiculous that it's come to this.

[kelticwizard]

I saw Joe on CNBC yesterday.  He was primarily speaking about efforts to reduce head trauma injuries and rehab from those injuries.  Of course they asked him about domestic abuse, Goodell and the Geno situation.  He seemed waffled on any comments regarding the Jets.  It seemed like they had trouble getting him off the set after a break -- he was off camera but the hosts had to tell him "no, we're done".  I had visions of his Suzy Kolber routine but for the financial news crowd. My childhood hero is a bonafide ass clown.

 I think he waffles on the Jets because he really liked Sanchez and said so repeatedly.  Geno is the guy they got to replace Sanchez and Namath hasn't emotionally come around to him yet.  As for getting off the set, it really seems like a lack of professionalism at CNBC.  Joe has been making TV appearances for a long time, I think he grasps the concept of getting off the set and leaving.

[kay_gee]

I saw Joe on CNBC yesterday. He was primarily speaking about efforts to reduce head trauma injuries and rehab from those injuries. Of course they asked him about domestic abuse, Goodell and the Geno situation. He seemed waffled on any comments regarding the Jets. It seemed like they had trouble getting him off the set after a break -- he was off camera but the hosts had to tell him "no, we're done". I had visions of his Suzy Kolber routine but for the financial news crowd. My childhood hero is a bonafide ass clown.

I wouldn't worry about getting off set. if you don't have an ear piece in or don't know exactly what they need you for (common with guests), it's hard to know what's going on. probably just a miscommunication - live TV was one of the most chaotic things I ever did. who knows, Joe might have asked if he had to hang around any longer.

[HessStation]

45 years later and the guy is STILL the face of the franchise.  Tells you enough if your listening.  

 

I had a buddy who (also a Jets fan) I saw on FB with a Milliner jersey. Bwahahahaha. That's how bad it is. A ******* Milliner jersey. I was in Dicks I was thinking about get the baby a cute little Jets jersey. All they had was Geno's. And I thought to myself, no ******* way. First he sucks. And second his dick is all over the internet. Thought better than to put on the little guy's back. True story. *shrugs 

[HessStation]

Wilkerson could kind of be that face of the franchise I guess. Of course they don't want to lock him in long term though. Of course!!! LOL. They ******* suck. 

[SoFlaJets]

I think everyone is now aware that Woody put both Idzik and Rex into a situation that they are making the best of but are deeply uncomfortable in. Idzik will outlast Rex and everyone knows it, but it is absolutely ridiculous that it's come to this.

But it's no 'new' thing KG, this has been the way that Woody runs the Jets, HE is the guy who does the hiring and the firing. Remember when Miami beat us the last game of the season and made the playoffs and Woody so so pissed that he made Tannenbaum call Mangini up at 3 in the morning to fire him? He never does it the way that other teams do it, the new General Manager or Head Coach is almost always forced to keep certain guys. People like Terry Bradway who was the GM and decided that he wanted to be closer to home so Woody moved him into the scouting dept. Bob Sutton was another guy who we were all baffled by. The last TOTAL disaster year  when almost everybody got sh!tcanned Woody was left with 1 guy to sit next to him and answer questions from the press otherwise Rex would have been fired too. 

 

The truth was that NOBODY even WANTED the job as the GM for the NYJ, Johnson had to send out a headhunter because no executive in his right mind would want to be TOLD what to do and who to hire and not be allowed to build a pro football team by hiring the people that HE wants around him. It's a system that is ready-made for failure.

 

Also, and I'm sorry but anybody who publicly states this:   http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/01/woody-johnson-prefers-romney-win-over-winning-season-from-jets/ has his priorities messed up. The best thing that could ever happen for us Jets fans is that the new commish whoever it is, comes in and takes a look at the way that the Jets have been run over the past few years and that there is an investigation to determine what the problem is. If Woody Johnson can't afford to field a pro-level NFL franchise in the NUMBER ONE MARKET in the world than somebody else should be given that opportunity. And...we Jets fans (especially those who go to the games) deserve to get their money's worth.

[kay_gee]

But it's no 'new' thing KG, this has been the way that Woody runs the Jets, HE is the guy who does the hiring and the firing. Remember when Miami beat us the last game of the season and made the playoffs and Woody so so pissed that he made Tannenbaum call Mangini up at 3 in the morning to fire him? He never does it the way that other teams do it, the new General Manager or Head Coach is almost always forced to keep certain guys. People like Terry Bradway who was the GM and decided that he wanted to be closer to home so Woody moved him into the scouting dept. Bob Sutton was another guy who we were all baffled by. The last TOTAL disaster year when almost everybody got sh!tcanned Woody was left with 1 guy to sit next to him and answer questions from the press otherwise Rex would have been fired too.

The truth was that NOBODY even WANTED the job as the GM for the NYJ, Johnson had to send out a headhunter because no executive in his right mind would want to be TOLD what to do and who to hire and not be allowed to build a pro football team by hiring the people that HE wants around him. It's a system that is ready-made for failure.

Also, and I'm sorry but anybody who publicly states this: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/01/woody-johnson-prefers-romney-win-over-winning-season-from-jets/ has his priorities messed up. The best thing that could ever happen for us Jets fans is that the new commish whoever it is, comes in and takes a look at the way that the Jets have been run over the past few years and that there is an investigation to determine what the problem is. If Woody Johnson can't afford to field a pro-level NFL franchise in the NUMBER ONE MARKET in the world than somebody else should be given that opportunity. And...we Jets fans (especially those who go to the games) deserve to get their money's worth.

you know I was agreeing with you, right? lol