If The Jets Start 1-9....

[AFJF]

Then you don't remember me at all.

 

After doing this for all the years I have, I have found one thing to be almost universal......when someone finds themselves on the other side of an issue from me, they almost always pull out the "you were a favorite poster, but (now that you're disagreeing with ME!) now you're a meany-mean-pants!  What happened to you man?"

 

Nothing happened.  I'm the exact same poster I was ten years ago, doing the exact same things, passionately defending the viewpoint I hold.

 

And the one thing I will NEVER take from anyone is having my Fandom questioned.  You can call me stupid, ignorant, even fat (cause I am these days), but I will never, ever, have my loyalty to this stupid ass disappointment of a team questioned by homers who reject criticism as disloyalty, analysis as enjoyment of losses, or opinion as some form of bad fandom. 

 

Perhaps I shouldn't have name dropped you in the thread where you and I had just exchanged 50 posts in the last 24 hours.  But fact is, I have no doubt in my mind after our exchanges yesterday that you, in fact, hold the viewpoint I assigned you.  Deny it if you like, or don't.

 

It's not that I don't like you being mean to me, I just don't think this is the place for it.  It's supposed to be a place for Jets fans to root, cheer, argue, debate and all that stuff, but when it spirals in to name calling then I try to back away because I respect the amount of work the mods put in to this and I don't want to be part of the problem.  I get it, you're passionate and you're angry.  So much so, that you may have missed it when I said several times yesterday that I can't make up my mind with Rex.  Some days I want him gone, other days I want him here.  You're painting me as somebody who is so blindly loyal to Rex that I would never dare be critical of him, but that's far from the case.  I look at things objectively.  I give him credit where credit is due, and I criticize him when I feel like he screws up.  Unlike many who hate him, they only talk about the negative, and if anyone dare point out the fact that he has done some things well, it resorts to name calling and TyrannicsaursRex and other super clever names.  I try to call it down the middle.  In my opinion, which I'm entitled to, is that this roster is a steaming pile of garbage that would be losing many games by three TD's or more on a weekly basis.  I believe that doesn't happen because of Rex, and I'm happy to say so.  As far as yesterday, great game-plan, very good execution, but Rex was at fault for not communicating with his coordinators enough.  I believe Dennis Thurman called the play on the 3rd and 19 TD and decided not to bring any pressure.  Rex was pretty animated in talking to him after the score and I think that's why.  That's a failure on Rex's part, he has a head set and he needs to be engaged.  See, I can do that despite the fact that  you imply, after one whole entire conversation, that you know how I would react or what I would say.

[DonCorleone]

As of right now, only a 10 game winning streak would save rex. Not gonna happen. The team is toast and Rex/Geno must go.

I agree but would love for Idzik to be included in that mix.

[Warfish]

It's not that I don't like you being mean to me, I just don't think this is the place for it.  It's supposed to be a place for Jets fans to root, cheer, argue, debate and all that stuff, but when it spirals in to name calling then I try to back away because I respect the amount of work the mods put in to this and I don't want to be part of the problem.

As a point of clarity, "get ****ed with that" is not calling you a name, it's akin to saying "get that stuff out of here" or similar. Albeit more vulgarly, admittedly.

 

I get it, you're passionate and you're angry.

I freely admit, I am frustrated with my fellow fans and simply cannot understand their support of a guy who has not improved over 6 years, makes almost all the same mistakes (some in evidence last night), and yet seems to bear (to many) a surprising lack of responsibility for anything bad that's happened in his tenure, and is so often described as "the only reason" we're not an 0-16 team. 

I don't understand the ongoing blame-deflection, given the past six years of Rex surviving whilst everyone around him gets fired. And I hate not being able to understand something.

 

I look at things objectively.

I would say the same thing, everyone thinks they're objective.....but can any of us be, as invested as we all are?

 

In my opinion, which I'm entitled to, is that this roster is a steaming pile of garbage that would be losing many games by three TD's or more on a weekly basis.  I believe that doesn't happen because of Rex, and I'm happy to say so.

Which is not much different in it's meaning from saying "Rex was the only reason last night was close, how the Pats have 1000% of our talent, and without Rex it would have been 52-3 final instead of being close".

So in point of fact, you do hold the opinion, albeit stated slightly differently, that I believed you did.

I didn't think I was being unfair, tbqh.

[jack48]

Here is how I look at it.  Normally after two good years and two blah years, I would say give the coach one more year.  But if you are bringing in a new GM, you have to give him the choice.  Plus, Rex really seemed to lose it at the end of year four.  He looked like a frightened squirrel blubbering through those end of the year press conferences.  They kept him:  so be it.  I am not saying that Rex cannot coach.  I think he is really a DC and nothing more, but with the right people he might go somewhere and have success.   Lots of guys can coach.  And last year's bogus 8-8 record notwithstanding, I think it was a mistake to keep him when Idzik came in.  He can coach. I just do not want him coaching here any longer.

[AFJF]

As a point of clarity, "get ****ed with that" is not calling you a name, it's akin to saying "get that stuff out of here" or similar. Albeit more vulgarly, admittedly.

 

I freely admit, I am frustrated with my fellow fans and simply cannot understand their support of a guy who has not improved over 6 years, makes almost all the same mistakes (some in evidence last night), and yet seems to bear (to many) a surprising lack of responsibility for anything bad that's happened in his tenure, and is so often described as "the only reason" we're not an 0-16 team. 

I don't understand the ongoing blame-deflection, given the past six years of Rex surviving whilst everyone around him gets fired. And I hate not being able to understand something.

 

I would say the same thing, everyone thinks they're objective.....but can any of us be, as invested as we all are?

 

Which is not much different in it's meaning from saying "Rex was the only reason last night was close, how the Pats have 1000% of our talent, and without Rex it would have been 52-3 final instead of being close".

So in point of fact, you do hold the opinion, albeit stated slightly differently, that I believed you did.

I didn't think I was being unfair, tbqh..

 

I'm objective.  That's why despite the fact that I don't like Geno, rather than come on here and simply say "he sucks" like a lot of people do, I acknowledge the fact that he doesn't have an ideal situation.  Inconsistent blocking and lack of consistency with his top target due to injuries.  Some of his turnovers have been backbreaking, but not really his fault.  See...objective.

[Warfish]

I'm objective.  That's why despite the fact that I don't like Geno, rather than come on here and simply say "he sucks" like a lot of people do, I acknowledge the fact that he doesn't have an ideal situation.  Inconsistent blocking and lack of consistency with his top target due to injuries.  Some of his turnovers have been backbreaking, but not really his fault.  See...objective.

/shrug

Maybe you're right, we should just agree to disagree, because I just can't reconcile the ongoing narrative I'm getting from you of "not Rex's fault" and "not Geno's fault" here.

I don't and can't agree with such a total and utter lack of accountability, as I see it.

I feel like it's Groundhog Day, and I'm back debating Pennington and herm, or Sanchez, or Magnini, etc.

Wasted years wasted away waiting for these guys to "get their fair chance", years after we knew who and what these gusy were, as if they've been treated unfairly or bear no responsibility for their own job performance.

/facepalm, ok, nuff' said.

[T0mShane]

/shrug

Maybe you're right, we should just agree to disagree, because I just can't reconcile the ongoing narrative I'm getting from you of "not Rex's fault" and "not Geno's fault" here.

I don't and can't agree with such a total and utter lack of accountability, as I see it.

I feel like it's Groundhog Day, and I'm back debating Pennington and herm, or Sanchez, or Magnini, etc.

Wasted years wasted away waiting for these guys to "get their fair chance", years after we knew who and what these gusy were, as if they've been treated unfairly or bear no responsibility for their own job performance.

/facepalm, ok, nuff' said.

 

 

Jet fans live in a world where potential is more real than reality.

[AFJF]

/shrug

Maybe you're right, we should just agree to disagree, because I just can't reconcile the ongoing narrative I'm getting from you of "not Rex's fault" and "not Geno's fault" here.

I don't and can't agree with such a total and utter lack of accountability, as I see it.

I feel like it's Groundhog Day, and I'm back debating Pennington and herm, or Sanchez, or Magnini, etc.

Wasted years wasted away waiting for these guys to "get their fair chance", years after we knew who and what these gusy were, as if they've been treated unfairly or bear no responsibility for their own job performance.

/facepalm, ok, nuff' said.

 

In my case it's definitely not a lack of accountability, it's more of an acknowledgement that I'm not a fan who feels like I know everything.  When I watch Geno Smith, he looks completely overmatched by NFL defenses 99% of the time.  He looks like he doesn't belong in the league and probably a guy that should just be cut now.  However, there are people who I believe to be more knowledgeable than me when it comes to talent evaluation.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Maybe I have a better eye for talent than the Jets scouts/coaches/GM and they're crazy for not cutting him.  But, I give them the benefit of the doubt and try to figure out why exactly he's still on the team.  Then I look and see the things I mentioned.  Poor pass blocking, not a lot of weapons, etc.. 

 

I do fully realize that with the internet and forums  and stat sites with constant access to analysis and in-depth coverage that a lot of fans feel as though they are more qualified than anyone in an NFL front office.  They're enraged because their team (not just the Jets) has  a general manager that isn't making the moves that they know to be the right ones. I always think those people look silly and I don't want to be one of them.  I'll offer my opinion that I personally believe Geno is terrible, but I'm not going to completely dismiss the opinions of the executives.  I think it's realizing that I don't know everything that allows me to be as objective as I am.

[dbatesman]

The irony of Jets fandom is that real fans will tolerate losing indefinitely as long as someone they like is at the helm, while fake fans just want to win, regardless of personnel.

[AVM]

If only it were that easy.  We'll win against Buffalo and upset KC to get some fans jumping back on the bandwagon, only to fall flat against a terrible Steelers team.  3-7 at the bye.

 

We'll somehow beat just enough teams to draft 7th or 8th.

[IPBanBadPosters]

1-9 is more realistic a possibility than most here think it is. There's this belief around here that teams like Buffalo and Miami should be penciled in as automatic wins, but I'm sure that's the way those teams are looking at the Jets right now. Our next 3 games - a Bills team that frankly looks better than we do, KC @ Arrowhead, and a Pittsburgh team that despite being bad this season always seems to beat us anyway - are each more likely to be losses than wins IMO.

[stevegrunder]

The irony of Jets fandom is that real fans will tolerate losing indefinitely as long as someone they like is at the helm, while fake fans just want to win, regardless of personnel.

 

More true words may never have been spoken.

 

#Iwant2TailgateWithMyCoach

[Warfish]

The irony of Jets fandom is that real fans will tolerate losing indefinitely as long as someone they like is at the helm, while fake fans just want to win, regardless of personnel.

Unhappy with Rex, now you're a "fake fan".

Nice to see some things, regardless of which forum, never change.

smh

[AVM]

1-9 is more realistic a possibility than most here think it is. There's this belief around here that teams like Buffalo and Miami should be penciled in as automatic wins, but I'm sure that's the way those teams are looking at the Jets right now. Our next 3 games - a Bills team that frankly looks better than we do, KC @ Arrowhead, and a Pittsburgh team that despite being bad this season always seems to beat us anyway - are each more likely to be losses than wins IMO.

If we were 5-2 or 4-3, sure...penciling them in as wins would be a mistake.

I think you confuse pessimism that this team will even screw up its draft slot with optimism that they're any good. It's a bottom 3 in the league talent team, but they'll blind squirrel their way to a few wins.

[ali]

it is the obvious.

[ucrenegade]

There was no need to cut any of the CB's he had on the roster.  He had plenty and he could have  used his picks and cap space on other positions on defense...why did he cut those CB's and replace them with other CB's if he thought he could get it done with a waterboy?

 

You're wrong about that too...Rex drafts every player and signs every free agent.

I believe some were cut because carrying 30 db's on your roster isn't a smart thing to do but you know wrecks. He was prob told he needed to let some go so we could get other roster positions filled.

[ucrenegade]

1-9 is more realistic a possibility than most here think it is. There's this belief around here that teams like Buffalo and Miami should be penciled in as automatic wins, but I'm sure that's the way those teams are looking at the Jets right now. Our next 3 games - a Bills team that frankly looks better than we do, KC @ Arrowhead, and a Pittsburgh team that despite being bad this season always seems to beat us anyway - are each more likely to be losses than wins IMO.

yep if anything history tells us we split with miami and buffalo.............kc is going to kill us same with pitt

 

i say best case we go 6-10

most likely 4-12

worst case 1-15

 

miss playoffs 4 years in a row.............wrecks needs to go.

[stevegrunder]

yep if anything history tells us we split with miami and buffalo.............kc is going to kill us same with pitt

 

i say best case we go 6-10

most likely 4-12

worst case 1-15

 

miss playoffs 4 years in a row.............wrecks needs to go.

 

2 games against Buf

2 games against Mia

Minn

Tenn

Pitts

KC

 

Those are 8 "winnable" games.

 

We won't win them all, but we could win 5 or 6 of them for sure. Even the NE game at home is winnable, considering we should have beaten them in NE.

 

It would not shock me at all to see the Jets win 7 games and keep Rex.

[bitonti]

Unhappy with Rex, now you're a "fake fan".

 

 

We are all real fans. Except for the Pats fans in the forum, they can go screw

 

the other side of this "it's everyone's fault but Rex" line that you guys are attacking is that this franchise has fired HC roughly every 5 years for the last 40 years. Firing people doesn't guarantee improvement.

 

There was a time not too long ago we all had our pitchforks and torches out for Schotty. They replaced him with Sparano. Things actually can (and do) get worse. 

[peebag]

We are all real fans. Except for the Pats fans in the forum, they can go screw

 

the other side of this "it's everyone's fault but Rex" line that you guys are attacking is that this franchise has fired HC roughly every 5 years for the last 40 years. Firing people doesn't guarantee improvement.

 

There was a time not too long ago we all had our pitchforks and torches out for Schotty. They replaced him with Sparano. Things actually can (and do) get worse. 

So if the Jets win 3 or 4 games total this year and the team "plays with heart", would you be ok with Rex coming back?

 

Not me.

[Scott Dierking]

 They replaced him with Sparano. 

REX replaced him with Sparano, remember. Rex.

[Warfish]

We are all real fans. Except for the Pats fans in the forum, they can go screw

 

the other side of this "it's everyone's fault but Rex" line that you guys are attacking is that this franchise has fired HC roughly every 5 years for the last 40 years. Firing people doesn't guarantee improvement.

 

There was a time not too long ago we all had our pitchforks and torches out for Schotty. They replaced him with Sparano. Things actually can (and do) get worse. 

 

Absolutely agree.  New HC is no guarantee of success.

 

With that said:

 

1999-2000  Parcells left, Groh in, Team improved by 1 win (From 8-8 to 9-7)

 

2000-2001 Groh left, Edwards in, Team improved by 1 win (From 9-7 to 10-6)

 

2005-2006  Edwards left, Mangini in, Team improved by 6 wins (From 4-12 to 10-6)

 

2008-2009 Mangini left, Ryan in, Team improved by 0 wins (from 9-7 to 9-7 w/ an AFCCG)

 

Our record since Parcells left is that when our coach is down, we replace him, and we get better.

 

Sure, Idzik could hire the next Kotite. 

 

Or he could hire the next Parcells.

 

Or most likely, he hires someone in-between, who takes this 4-year non-winning team and makes it a winner....at least at first.

 

That's our track record.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

We are all real fans. Except for the Pats fans in the forum, they can go screw

the other side of this "it's everyone's fault but Rex" line that you guys are attacking is that this franchise has fired HC roughly every 5 years for the last 40 years. Firing people doesn't guarantee improvement.

There was a time not too long ago we all had our pitchforks and torches out for Schotty. They replaced him with Sparano. Things actually can (and do) get worse.

They can get and are getting worse under Rex too. Of course change isn't guaranteed to produce improvement but the evidence is mounting against the alternative. Quickly.

[ucrenegade]

2 games against Buf

2 games against Mia

Minn

Tenn

Pitts

KC

 

Those are 8 "winnable" games.

 

We won't win them all, but we could win 5 or 6 of them for sure. Even the NE game at home is winnable, considering we should have beaten them in NE.

 

It would not shock me at all to see the Jets win 7 games and keep Rex.

That would be like the jets to torment us like this...............SOJ if i ever saw.

[dbatesman]

We are all real fans. Except for the Pats fans in the forum, they can go screw

 

the other side of this "it's everyone's fault but Rex" line that you guys are attacking is that this franchise has fired HC roughly every 5 years for the last 40 years. Firing people doesn't guarantee improvement.

 

There was a time not too long ago we all had our pitchforks and torches out for Schotty. They replaced him with Sparano. Things actually can (and do) get worse.

 

here's a question

if the Jets fire mangini

who are they gonna get who is guarunteed to be any better?

isn't that the whole reason Mangini was hired in the first place? i.e. if great head coaches with experience were just sitting around waiting to be hired, no one would hire the Mangini's of the world.

[Scott Dierking]

They can get and are getting worse under Rex too. Of course change isn't guaranteed to produce improvement but the evidence is mounting against the alternative. Quickly.

MLH is my new favorite poster

[Scott Dierking]

 

Give him credit, over the years, he learned how to spell guarantee

[faba]

Going to be one hell of a press conference on bye week with Idzik- must hear what he  has to say.

[Scott Dierking]

Going to be one hell of a press conference on bye week with Idzik- must hear what he  has to say.

He does owe the fans that. He needs to be more accessible.

[slats]

1-9 is more realistic a possibility than most here think it is. There's this belief around here that teams like Buffalo and Miami should be penciled in as automatic wins, but I'm sure that's the way those teams are looking at the Jets right now. Our next 3 games - a Bills team that frankly looks better than we do, KC @ Arrowhead, and a Pittsburgh team that despite being bad this season always seems to beat us anyway - are each more likely to be losses than wins IMO.

  

If that belief exists around here, it's by people lurking, not posting. The only time I read stuff like that is from people afraid they'll win those games (and more), resulting in Rex being retained.

2008-2009 Mangini left, Ryan in, Team improved by 0 wins (from 9-7 to 9-7 w/ an AFCCG)

 

Our record since Parcells left is that when our coach is down, we replace him, and we get better.

I know you added in that w/ an AFCCG there, but going from 9-7 to 11-8 while simultaneously replacing Brett Favre with a rookie Mark Sanchez seems like quite the improvement to me.

[faba]

He does owe the fans that. He needs to be more accessible.

Yes another thing we can rip him more is not coming out to address the media and fans over the course of the season. We should get some answers to all that has gone wrong.

[Scott Dierking]

  

If that belief exists around here, it's by people lurking, not posting. The only time I read stuff like that is from people afraid they'll win those games (and more), resulting in Rex being retained.

I know you added in that w/ an AFCCG there, but going from 9-7 to 11-8 while simultaneously replacing Brett Favre with a rookie Mark Sanchez seems like quite the improvement to me.

Whoever thought that we would be reminiscing about 2009 as the good old years?