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Stop with the Idzik Hate. I have spoken!

Villain The Foe

By Villain The Foe
in NY Jets Forum

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

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that pretty much sums it up.   The Jets owe Harvin $10M next season if they want to keep him on the team.  

 

Rather than pursue FA's Tate (5 yrs / $31M) or Desean Jackson (3 yrs / $24M) the Jets get Harvin after the season is lost (1+ yrs / $17M)

 

Not true. Its non-guaranteed money meaning that if Harvin can really show-and-prove then they can simply negotiate a new contract. If he doesnt work then you can release him. Something that we couldn't do with Desean if we gave him a contract off the rip. We basically got a "trial run" with Harvin. 

 

 

How about Vick?   What was the point of signing Vick if it wasn't to compete for the QB position?   This is Mark Brunell all over again and the competition was a sham that never happened. 

 

It was to have a back up if Geno went down. Someone more capable than, lets say Kirk Cousins. Geno is a 2nd round pick. They're giving him every opportunity possible, but if it really got bad or if he got hurt then Vick would play. Lets be serious, Mark Brunell was absolutely washed up and wasnt a threat to Mark Sanchez whatsoever. If Mark Sanchez got hurt our best QB would have been Jeremy Kerley. 

 

 

 

 

 

To top it all off Idzik just isn't very good at the draft.   I don't think he understands the process.   It's like he used all 12 picks to prove a point.   what point, I don't know but I know the results aren't very good and half of the picks aren't even on the team.   

 

In all honestly, I could have done as good of a job as Idzik over the past 18 months.   In fact, I would wager that I likely could not have done any worse.    The team is 1-6 with huge holes at the most important positions.   I certainly would not have allowed Greg Salas, David Nelson, or Phillip Adams to be a starter in yr 2 of the LionelRichie regime.    I also would have had a backup plan at QB should Geno not workout.   

You're evaluating this draft less than halfway through the first year and last year wasnt even his scouts. Not making excuses, the only guy to be an impact is Sheldon. The draft picks outside of him have not produced. At the same time draft picks take time so thats the way Im approaching this. 

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

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In his 2 years, Idzik has fielded a team that has so far gone 9-14 and non-competitive in the AFCE.

How does that performance translate into a "heck of a job"?

I dont know where this non-competitive nonsense is coming from. Actually I do...its the frustration of this years record which is understandable. John Idzik unfortunately had to put out a team on the field last year that was rated to be the worst in the league by every "expert" that people love to quote when its in support of their views. With that said, the Jets non-competitiveness was able to produce an 8-8 record with the worst offensive weapons by far in the league. Idzik used this to turn around the cap in his second year going into week 8 he's put together an offense, talent wise can rival the offense that we had going into 2 deep playoff runs. 

 

You're talking about records. Thats more for the coach. Im talking about what Idzik is putting together as a football team and given where his starting point was I commend him for what he's put together so far. He's made mistakes no doubt, but you guys are acting really sensitive about the situation. For every Dimitri Patterson I can name you a Chris Ivory. For Every Mike Goodson I can name you an Eric Decker. On top of the fact that Idzik has shown the ability to recognize his mistake and get rid of it. Goodson got all the help the organization could give him but when it was time to cut bait Idzik cut him. Dimitri Patterson was throwing a fit because of playing time, missed a game and disappeared for a weekend. Idzik made sure that the guys in the locker room never got the feeling that this type of action was okay and he cut him EVEN THOUGH it was putting him in a compromising situation. Unfortunately we also had injuries to the position that didnt help. For what I've seen Idzik do in less than 2 years, record or not, I see him pointing this team in a positive direction. 

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

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It's depressing to see our offensive talent be worse, even though you were hoping for the opposite. Also, smart move leaving off the defensive starters, cause we're way worse talent wise there. 

 

Please. you're alluding that I stayed away from the defense because he some how "f'ed it up". He traded a guy who wasnt team oriented in Revis....a player who would own have of this teams cap if Tanny was still around. He got Sheldon Richardson who is still looking like one of the best talents to come out of that draft class. He is basically covering up the fact that Coples is a bust by signing Antwan Barnes and Babin. Mind you, Barnes looked great in his return this past week. We need a stronger secondary, I never ran from that point. Its valid. Jet fans who hate on Idzik run from the fact that he's produced more for the team talent wise than not. He's put us in better opportunities cap wise to take advantage of such a situation heading into week 8. How many teams out there could have afforded 7 million right now to get Harvin. Better yet, how many teams had our cap problem and basically reversed it in a year? 

 

As for your comment about the talent getting worse on offense. Im liable to block you until the Jets win a Super Bowl with an Idzik built offense, which luckily for you wont be long. 

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

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Great points, Villian; I like the line-up comparisons.

Something has to be done about the drafting..last years draft was atrocious. One thing I do not understand is when idyzik came over, he kept bradway and co. in place? I've seen new GMs keep HCs (I think?) but is it common for new GMs to keep the scouting dept? Did he bring in ANY new blood? Maybe cleaning house there is a smart move?

Thanks man. I think that draft picks take time. Im not giving up on Calvin Pryor or Jace Amaro. Im actually seeing a lot of promise in Amaro too. What he has to clean up are the dropped balls. And you can tell that it isn't a "Stephen Hill" thing where he's simply an athlete and not a football player, its more of him trying to run before he secures the pass. Idzik does seem to have this knack for banking on talent that has injury history which I can understand when you're trying to add depth to a football team. He's trying to strike gold by taking a flyer on someone who may be able to turn it around. Problem is outside of Chris Ivory, all of these other guys have really been hitting the injury bug (Dee Milliner, Dimitri Patterson, Dexter McDougle, Antwan Barnes and now Percy Harvin). 

 

With that, to say that I'm not satisfied that he's turned the Jets around from being one of the oldest, slowest teams to one of the youngest, fastest teams in the league with much cap room would be a lie. Im simply not over reacting like a lot of these Jet fans from the 1-6 record. This is a process, not Madden. 

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

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If John Idzik had a solid franchise QB then this hate wouldn't even be around. The Seahawks strikes gold with Russell Wilson and all of a sudden it was like the Seahawks have been geniuses forever. Yet they're still making mistakes as all teams.

 

They took a chance by giving a 1st rounder to Minnesota for Percy Harvin and letting Golden Tate go. Percy Harvin is a Jet right now and Golden Tate is making Calvin Johnson's injury not look so bad. Outside of Lynch and Avril the Seahawks haven't been good at all in free agency. How did Sidney Rice work out? They benched Matt Flynn after giving him a nice size contract. He was making almost 8 million to ride the bench. What made it better? Great drafting, from round 1 to 7....literally. 

 

John Idzik has to draft well in order for the hate not to matter. He's shown potential. Sheldon Richardson was not a popular pick. No one disagrees today. Dexter McDougle I really feel could be something, but ACL tears are very tricky. 

 

Idzik does need to seriously hit in the draft though. I think that when its said and done, Jace Amaro is going to work. Hopefully Pryor will as well. 

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Shadetree

Shadetree

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Thanks man. I think that draft picks take time. Im not giving up on Calvin Pryor or Jace Amaro. Im actually seeing a lot of promise in Amaro too. What he has to clean up are the dropped balls. And you can tell that it isn't a "Stephen Hill" thing where he's simply an athlete and not a football player, its more of him trying to run before he secures the pass. Idzik does seem to have this knack for banking on talent that has injury history which I can understand when you're trying to add depth to a football team. He's trying to strike gold by taking a flyer on someone who may be able to turn it around. Problem is outside of Chris Ivory, all of these other guys have really been hitting the injury bug (Dee Milliner, Dimitri Patterson, Dexter McDougle, Antwan Barnes and now Percy Harvin).

With that, to say that I'm not satisfied that he's turned the Jets around from being one of the oldest, slowest teams to one of the youngest, fastest teams in the league with much cap room would be a lie. Im simply not over reacting like a lot of these Jet fans from the 1-6 record. This is a process, not Madden.

I'm not a fan of amaro...hands like feet. Too many big drops. He gets a pass cause he's a rookie, but how many players "cure" the dropsies? I don't think many...it's a natural talent, either you have hands or not. His madden rating is gonna suck!! Haha

You haven't added your opinion on the scouting dept.? Am I to assume you like them because you like idyzik? im tolerating idzik, liked the harvin deal, but the scouting dept has me concerned.

Also...why did he keep the scouting dept? Did he bring ANYONE in? Seattle people? ANYONE!?!?

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ylekram

ylekram

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I think they are. We are renting Harvin right now. And his salary isn't guaranteed next year until he makes the 53 man roster, which means we can have him throughout this year, have him go through camp and the entire preseason. John Idzik worked this trade just now. At the worst we lose a 4th rounder for a guy who before was traded to the seahawks was THIRSTING to get this guy. Now that we have him it seems like people are hating because Idzik did it. 

THIRSTING to get this guy- yet within a year  seattle was THIRSTING to get rid of him. kinda tells you something. for the record, I am not against the trade, however ,it screams of the santonio trade. whats the over/under of how many jets he punches in the face?

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

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I'm not a fan of amaro...hands like feet. Too many big drops. He gets a pass cause he's a rookie, but how many players "cure" the dropsies? I don't think many...it's a natural talent, either you have hands or not. His madden rating is gonna suck!! Haha

You haven't added your opinion on the scouting dept.? Am I to assume you like them because you like idyzik? im tolerating idzik, liked the harvin deal, but the scouting dept has me concerned.

Also...why did he keep the scouting dept? Did he bring ANYONE in? Seattle people? ANYONE!?!?

Im so so with the scouting dept. Everyone here know that I wanted Phillip Gaines (CB) who actually looked great in his first start with the Chiefs and Jordan Matthews (WR) who's shown promise with the Eagles. I also thought that adding Ryan Shazier to the mix would be good given that Coples is a pipe dream and Davis will be taking over Harris. I have to admit, I really liked the McDougle pick up, a nice consolation for passing on Gaines. Jace Amaro I think will be solid. 

 

I think in 3 years Amaro will be a solid TE in the league, McDougle will also be solid, its something about him that I like. I do think that Shaq Evans will be on this team contributing as well. Do I think that I could have had a better draft? Yes. I felt strongly about the guys I considered. I honestly can't judge the scouts right now. This was their first draft. Calvin Pryor could be a bust or he could be the next Kam Chancellor. We certainly wont find out this year for sure. 

 

And Idzik fired the scouting department that was hear after the 2013 draft. The scouts we have now are his guys. 

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Matt39

Matt39

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So, Idzik traded for a talented malcontent who's all but guaranteed to strangle out Geno and other teammates/coaches and probably isnt a long term solution for the team and now he's good at his job?

 

No.

 

Kind of wish we just drafted one of the good receivers.

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

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THIRSTING to get this guy- yet within a year was seattle was THIRSTING to get rid of him. kinda tells you something. for the record, I am not against the trade, however ,it screams of the santonio trade. whats the over/under of how many jets he punches in the face?

Hindsight is the best sight. When people were thirsting for Harvin  none of us knew about his problems in minnesota. Maybe someone did, but no one posted it. When he was traded to the hawks I didnt see anyone talking about his off the field issues. Now all of a sudden we're talking bout a team getting "rid of him" and how it "tells us something"? Im glad you're not against the trade, Braylon Edwards was a problem in Cleveland, he wasnt here. Matter of Fact, for years people wanted the Jets to resign Bray. Holmes was a problem towards the end, but when he wasnt the #1 and he was our #2 he was solid. 

 

I guess what I'm saying is, I dont care what his problems where in seattle or Minnesota because I didnt know about it along with the other people who was thirsting to get such a dynamic player. All I'm saying is that now that we have the 26 year old Percy Harvin he seems to be a problem because it was John Idzik who did it. 

 

It's Ridiculous. Not "you", I'm just saying in general. 

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kay_gee

kay_gee

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So, Idzik traded for a talented malcontent who's all but guaranteed to strangle out Geno and other teammates/coaches and probably isnt a long term solution for the team and now he's good at his job?

 

No.

 

 

There is absolutely no down side to the Harvin trade. A conditional pick for a guy they don't even have to keep, who they can use to test Geno and figure out much faster and with much less doubt who he is? Win.

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

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Kind of wish we just drafted one of the good receivers.

 

Sure would have a lot more sense that trading for a WR who hates everyone and everyone hates, who's forced his way off 2 teams, when you're 1-6 with the worst QB in the league.

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

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There is absolutely no down side to the Harvin trade. A conditional pick for a guy they don't even have to keep, who they can use to test Geno and figure out much faster and with much less doubt who he is? Win.

 

I think the assumption he's going to help Geno is the issue here.  He might, if something miraculously changes with his personality.  

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

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There is absolutely no down side to the Harvin trade. A conditional pick for a guy they don't even have to keep, who they can use to test Geno and figure out much faster and with much less doubt who he is? Win.

Exactly. There is only the potential for upside here. Harvin provides much more than he could possibly take away. Evaluating Geno with Decker/Harvin/Kerley is better than Holmes/Hill/Kerley. Getting a playmaker in his prime years isn't bad. And we could always negotiate a contract with him if we like what we see the next half of the season or simply cut him if we dont. 

 

What I do find absolutely unbelievable is how people talk about how Idzik is sitting on 24 million dollars and is doing nothing, then they're bitching about trading for Harvin and spending 7 million to do so. lol. 

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

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Exactly. There is only the potential for upside here. Harvin provides much more than he could possibly take away. Evaluating Geno with Decker/Harvin/Kerley is better than Holmes/Hill/Kerley. Getting a playmaker in his prime years isn't bad. And we could always negotiate a contract with him if we like what we see the next half of the season or simply cut him if we dont. 

 

Evaluating Geno from week 1 with proper weapons would have been the way to go about it.  Not now, at 1-6.   This is a waste.  But whatever.   It will be fun to watch.

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Matt39

Matt39

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Pretty much every single WR the Jets had a chance to get, hasnt disappointed so far this season.

 

I dont want Gastineau hunting me down but Cooks has kind of been imo. 

 

Benjamin, Robinson, Adams, Matthews im sure I'm missing some. Ellington gets on the field for the NIners, Bryant just scored on a bomb for the Steelers.

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