Jets Voice of Reason Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 One question I'd wonder is regarding Idzik's job security. Do people think he'd be green lit to make these moves if Woody was planning on fire him after this year? I'm legitimately not sure because Woody is unpredictable and does illogical things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I am actually looking at in the opposite way-They are using this deal to appease Harvin, and show him that he will be used as an outside guy-which is what he wants. If Harvey fails outside, then they have Kerley locked up and go in a different diction, without giving Kerley extra leverage. Or, they just decided to sign Kerley now. The timing seems too coincidental. Or maybe he is a big locker room influence guy who is in the fire Rex corner, if so you know Idzik will want as many of those guys around come January when the spirited D gets the Jets to 6-10 carrying Rex out the stadium on their shoulders! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Do we still target a WR high in the draft (Cooper) even if we have Decker, Harvin, Kerley? If he is BPA on the board I sure as Hell hope so, if not the whole front office should be fired, you don't reach in the top 10 of the first round, you take BPA regardless of need, look at Sheldon Richardson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 What is the rush to extend a guy at a price that I consider on the high side of fair? Should I do cartwheels for paying market price for this kid? We nickel and dimed everybody throughout the free agency period and now in the middle of a lost season we are suddenly spending. I would have been much happier to spend this money on Andre Roberts or Emmanuel Sanders and been able to go into the season with an NFL level WR corps. Hell we even could have gone into the draft without a pathetic need that caused us to burn 3 picks on complete crap. Let's not re-sign a good player so we can have more money to sign other players like Andre Roberts (basically the exact same guy). JetLogic. There's literally zero reasons to b*tch about this. No one is doing cartwheels over it and no one is expecting you to. But spending time out of a busy day to complain about it? Funny stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 What is the rush to extend a guy at a price that I consider on the high side of fair? Should I do cartwheels for paying market price for this kid? We nickel and dimed everybody throughout the free agency period and now in the middle of a lost season we are suddenly spending. I would have been much happier to spend this money on Andre Roberts or Emmanuel Sanders and been able to go into the season with an NFL level WR corps. Hell we even could have gone into the draft without a pathetic need that caused us to burn 3 picks on complete crap. Maybe this is the only time Idzik can take his time with negotiations, whereas in March you've got a few hours before another team emails better terms to the player. I don't know that Harvin had much of an influence on Kerley's numbers. Kerley's been here for a while and, without the necessary rush we see in early March, his contract was banged out very quickly after the Harvin deal. So this was probably in the works, for approximately these terms, before we picked up Harvin. Technically it's possible that picking up Harvin lowered Kerley's current demand, since 1 week ago the Jets had Decker and no one without him. Yes, that would be Kerley seeking above market value (if there's any truth to what I just made up), but it's not impossible. He knows the Jets tried to draft his replacement and it was a humiliating flop. Also his agent may have already heard behind the scenes "whispers" that another team or two feel Kerley would be a 1000-yd slot receiver if he wasn't saddled by being on the Jets. It may even be true. I think the timing is just that his plan failed and this happened to present itself now. Not that he chose this deal now over Sanders in March, even if that's how it technically played out. The idea was for a Jets draft pick to be in there, not Harvin OR Sanders. But we all see how that's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 The idea was for a Jets draft pick to be in there, not Harvin OR Sanders. But we all see how that's gone. Bingo. If there's anything to complain about on this, it's that none of the mid-round WR's Idzik took have provided any upside whatsoever to make Kerley's presence on the roster unnecessary. In the absence of WR talent available on the roster, and with Harvin's future with the Jets hardly secure, this was a proper move to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Wake me up when Kerley has a Hall of Fame QB throwing to him Not to defend the pats fan, but wake me up when Kerley can return punts like Edelman can, he is considered one of the top punt returners in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Edelman is the best offensive player in the league? That's news to me. Either that or Tx thinks Coples is really ******* good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Either that or Tx thinks Coples is really ******* good. Tom Brady is the Quinton Coples to Joe Montana's JJ Watt. #BreakoutSeason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Not to defend the pats fan, but wake me up when Kerley can return punts like Edelman can, he is considered one of the top punt returners in the game. Edelman is considered one of the top punt returners in the game? He is good. But one of the top? Not to mention that is average is way, way down this year and had major fumbling issues last year with five. That is not indicative of being "one of the top punt returners in the game." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Let's not re-sign a good player so we can have more money to sign other players like Andre Roberts (basically the exact same guy). JetLogic. There's literally zero reasons to b*tch about this. No one is doing cartwheels over it and no one is expecting you to. But spending time out of a busy day to complain about it? Funny stuff. Andre Roberts + Kerley > Kerley I am sorry. I should be more busy bitching about Rex and the team's use of timeouts. I bitch about it because this and the Harvin deal seem to go against every possible theory behind Idzik. If he is sabotaging Rex (no premium in the rent-a-car as Shane said) then this would seem a mistake. If he wanted to succeed with Rex, the team should have had another CB or two and another WR for the start of the season. I didn't want Flowers, but the team is better short term with him. They could have had him the entire season for half of what they are paying Harvin the rest of the way. This may just be getting players you want or it may be a backlash to the press/public bashing Idzik and the swinging a bit toward it not being Ryan's fault. That should be scary to us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Tom Brady is the Quinton Coples to Joe Montana's JJ Watt. #BreakoutSeason Is he also one of the top punt returners in the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Only if Rex returns. yes CB very important in rex's scheme but doesn't matter who the coach is the position needs a serious upgrade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Tom Brady is the Quinton Coples to Joe Montana's JJ Watt. #BreakoutSeason Quinton Coples is a cheating scumbag with the personality of a roof shingle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Andre Roberts + Kerley > Kerley I am sorry. I should be more busy bitching about Rex and the team's use of timeouts. I bitch about it because this and the Harvin deal seem to go against every possible theory behind Idzik. If he is sabotaging Rex (no premium in the rent-a-car as Shane said) then this would seem a mistake. If he wanted to succeed with Rex, the team should have had another CB or two and another WR for the start of the season. I didn't want Flowers, but the team is better short term with him. They could have had him the entire season for half of what they are paying Harvin the rest of the way. This may just be getting players you want or it may be a backlash to the press/public bashing Idzik and the swinging a bit toward it not being Ryan's fault. That should be scary to us all. Any thought that contains a premise that a GM is trying to "sabotage" the coach under them should be immediately discounted and thrown in the trash. Do people REALLY suspect that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Edelman is considered one of the top punt returners in the game? He is good. But one of the top? Not to mention that is average is way, way down this year and had major fumbling issues last year with five. That is not indicative of being "one of the top punt returners in the game." Just because you type it, and believe it does not make it true. Edelman's punt returns single handily beat the Jets in the first game last year. He is always giving the Pats good field position on punts that 99% of other punt returners are fair catching! no he isn't the D Hester threat to score every time, but he shakes, and makes people miss inside a phone booth to turn a punt that would have been fair caught at the 12, and turn it into a return to the 30 more than anyone I ever saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 To those who say Edelman is better, just look at who is throwing him passes. you do have a point there ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Any thought that contains a premise that a GM is trying to "sabotage" the coach under them should be immediately discounted and thrown in the trash. Do people REALLY suspect that? The point is not intentional sabotage. That has been suggested, but is obviously silly. The point is that he is supposedly trying to set things up for "his guy" next season. I don't see how this helps that theory. If Rex is his guy, this offseason is an abomination. If Rex is not, the timing of these moves is puzzling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Just because you type it, and believe it does not make it true. Edelman's punt returns single handily beat the Jets in the first game last year. He is always giving the Pats good field position on punts that 99% of other punt returners are fair catching! no he isn't the D Hester threat to score every time, but he shakes, and makes people miss inside a phone booth to turn a punt that would have been fair caught at the 12, and turn it into a return to the 30 more than anyone I ever saw. I don't think you are watching enough football. It's not just Hester. I'd take Adam Jones, Darren Sproles, Ted Ginn over him too and that's just off the top of my head. Edelman's fumbling issues on punt returns is indicative of his poor judgement in not fair catching when he probably should be. His good returns come at the expense of risking a turnover whenever he's out there. The dude fumbled 5 times last year in 58 chances. That's an incredibly high rate. By comparison, Ginn didn't fumble at all in 52 chances, Sproles hasn't fumbled a punt return chance since 2010, he's fielded about 80 punts in that stretch. Edelman's propensity for fumbling automatically disqualifies him from being considered one of the top returners in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I bitch about it because this and the Harvin deal seem to go against every possible theory behind Idzik. If he is sabotaging Rex (no premium in the rent-a-car as Shane said) then this would seem a mistake. If he wanted to succeed with Rex, the team should have had another CB or two and another WR for the start of the season. Rex is irrelevant to all of this and I don't see any reason why he SHOULD matter. The GM's job is to acquire talent, keeping the future in mind. Percy Harvin is 27 years old and has a lot of talent. I don't think this move was made purely as a 1-year rental. I see our acquisition of him NOW as being advantageous to waiting until he hits free agency. We get to see how he performs with the team and in the locker room for the next 9 weeks before making a decision on what to offer him. Whether Rex is here or not next year has no bearing on Harvin's future here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Either that or Tx thinks Coples is really ******* good. Coples is another 1st round draft bust by the Jets. However, I do like Kerley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Rex is irrelevant to all of this and I don't see any reason why he SHOULD matter. The GM's job is to acquire talent, keeping the future in mind. Percy Harvin is 27 years old and has a lot of talent. I don't think this move was made purely as a 1-year rental. I see our acquisition of him NOW as being advantageous to waiting until he hits free agency. We get to see how he performs with the team and in the locker room for the next 9 weeks before making a decision on what to offer him. Whether Rex is here or not next year has no bearing on Harvin's future here. He gets $10.5M next year. He is the walking embodiment of a rental. We are spending $7M to give our GM knowledge to make a decision on 2015. That is twice the price of a quality WR or CB. We could have added Flowers AND Roberts for the entire season for what we are spending to help us make a decision. Whether Rex is here or not, that seems to be poor resource allocation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 He gets $10.5M next year. He is the walking embodiment of a rental. We are spending $7M to give our GM knowledge to make a decision on 2015. That is twice the price of a quality WR or CB. We could have added Flowers AND Roberts for the entire season for what we are spending to help us make a decision. Whether Rex is here or not, that seems to be poor resource allocation. The failure to acquire Flowers does not make the Harvin move a poor decision. People are complaining about positive things that are happening currently because of negative things that happened previously. Andre Roberts is a replacement level talent. Harvin can be special. That's why the latter is worth the "rent with an option to buy" pricetag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I don't think you are watching enough football. It's not just Hester. I'd take Adam Jones, Darren Sproles, Ted Ginn over him too and that's just off the top of my head. Edelman's fumbling issues on punt returns is indicative of his poor judgement in not fair catching when he probably should be. His good returns come at the expense of risking a turnover whenever he's out there. The dude fumbled 5 times last year in 58 chances. That's an incredibly high rate. By comparison, Ginn didn't fumble at all in 52 chances, Sproles hasn't fumbled a punt return chance since 2010, he's fielded about 80 punts in that stretch. Edelman's propensity for fumbling automatically disqualifies him from being considered one of the top returners in the game. Edelman has the 3rd most returns this year and isnt even in the top 10 in yards or longest returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Voice of Reason Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 He gets $10.5M next year. He is the walking embodiment of a rental. We are spending $7M to give our GM knowledge to make a decision on 2015. That is twice the price of a quality WR or CB. We could have added Flowers AND Roberts for the entire season for what we are spending to help us make a decision. Whether Rex is here or not, that seems to be poor resource allocation. I don't really think there can be that much of a question that there were a lot of failings this offseason. There were a lot of viable players to invest in that they weren't aggressive enough in pursuing. Most notably, there were a ton more stable WRs to invest in rather than Harvin. At this point, I think he's just trying to make the best out of a bad (self-created) situation. Everything is compounded by the fact that the draft was so bad and the 2013 draft didn't yield much depth either. Personally, I would've rather they just tanked this season completely, but I have absolutely zero confidence in their ability or willingness to acquire successful WRs through the draft so I can live with giving Harvin a shot since I know at least he's talented. I just hope they don't ignore the WR position this upcoming offseason because they're "happy" with their WR. corps as it currently stands. I don't expect Harvin to stay healthy and neither should they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Rex is irrelevant to all of this and I don't see any reason why he SHOULD matter. The GM's job is to acquire talent, keeping the future in mind. Percy Harvin is 27 years old and has a lot of talent. I don't think this move was made purely as a 1-year rental. I see our acquisition of him NOW as being advantageous to waiting until he hits free agency. We get to see how he performs with the team and in the locker room for the next 9 weeks before making a decision on what to offer him. Whether Rex is here or not next year has no bearing on Harvin's future here. Its too little too late for a guy they have no long term interest in. He's not going to be on the Jets next year. You're fooling yourself if you think he is. Idzik did his boys in Seattle a favor by taking a malcontent off their hands who could possibly stand in the way of another SB run. It's that and Idzik realizing that he royally ****ed up this offseason and now he's trying to do right for the fans by getting someone that is at least entertaining to watch since their really isnt a reason to watch a Jets Football game. They're the biggest bore in the league. Idzik hates the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoeword Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 roscoeword, on 21 Oct 2014 - 10:33 PM, said: they did it to appease Kerley, so he won't feel bad that we reached out to Harvin... the way we gave Sanchez an extension when we reached out to Peyton I don't believe this at all. Since when do we need to appease an underperforming slot receiver with a reputation for being a good teammate? Are we really worried about his psychological well being? I mean, what was going to happen, he was going to play worse? That's quite a way to make a living. Any other positions you need to check, mentally? I wasn't serious with my post that they did it to appease Kerley.. was just kidding, but thanks for responding and acknowledging my existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I don't really think there can be that much of a question that there were a lot of failings this offseason. There were a lot of viable players to invest in that they weren't aggressive enough in pursuing. Most notably, there were a ton more stable WRs to invest in rather than Harvin. At this point, I think he's just trying to make the best out of a bad (self-created) situation. Everything is compounded by the fact that the draft was so bad and the 2013 draft didn't yield much depth either. Personally, I would've rather they just tanked this season completely, but I have absolutely zero confidence in their ability or willingness to acquire successful WRs through the draft so I can live with giving Harvin a shot since I know at least he's talented. I just hope they don't ignore the WR position this upcoming offseason because they're "happy" with their WR. corps as it currently stands. I don't expect Harvin to stay healthy and neither should they. That is what I am afraid of. The one thing Idzik had going for him was steadfastly staying the course even when things were not going our way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Ok, don't go over it. Just tell me which letters Kerley and Harvin are. Thx. Just as he was used in Seattle and Minnesota, Harvin will play the Z and also a lot out of the slot. While Kerley is predominantly a slot guy, he's shown the ability to be the flanker as well. Seattle used Baldwin, Kearse and Harvin pretty interchangeably between the Z and slot, which is exactly what we'll probably do. Considering Harvin and Kerley can play both, it's all about getting your best receivers on the field as much as possible and that's Decker, Harvin and Kerley. As for Cimini's notion that he can't stretch the field or you have to orchestrate ways to get him the ball, just watch Harvin play when Favre was there, he stretched the field plenty. I think Seattle just wanted to run an extremely rush-oriented style of football and Harvin running verticals was not part of their philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Just as he was used in Seattle and Minnesota, Harvin will play the Z and also a lot out of the slot. While Kerley is predominantly a slot guy, he's shown the ability to be the flanker as well. Seattle used Baldwin, Kearse and Harvin pretty interchangeably between the Z and slot, which is exactly what we'll probably do. Considering Harvin and Kerley can play both, it's all about getting your best receivers on the field as much as possible and that's Decker, Harvin and Kerley. As for Cimini's notion that he can't stretch the field or you have to orchestrate ways to get him the ball, just watch Harvin play when Favre was there, he stretched the field plenty. I think Seattle just wanted to run an extremely rush-oriented style of football and Harvin running verticals was not part of their philosophy. Cimini doesn't know anything about football. All that a$$hole does is parrot nonsense fed to him from other equally football illiterate morons like Gary Myers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rillo Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I'm happy with this, now go lock up MO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 That is what I am afraid of. The one thing Idzik had going for him was steadfastly staying the course even when things were not going our way. What if Schneider called Idzik and Idzik just said, hey, why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 What if Schneider called Idzik and Idzik just said, hey, why not? What if Idzik has been replaced by a giant bug from outer space that has been operating inside a suit made from his own skin? And what if he only lives on sugar water now because of it? AND, what if Idzik got that call when his sugar was low at that EXACT moment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 What if Idzik has been replaced by a giant bug from outer space that has been operating inside a suit made from his own skin? And what if he only lives on sugar water now because of it? AND, what if Idzik got that call when his sugar was low at that EXACT moment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obrien2Toon Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Was on board with resigning Kerley until we got Harvin. Now I'm assuming Harvin is just a rental. Why not see how Harvin fits before resigning Kerley. It's not like there is going to be a huge market for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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