Kiper's Current Top 10

[T0mShane]

In T0m's defense, he loved Lienart.

 

 

We would have made so many championships together.

[JustInFudge]

Let's not ignore the gator below the post......

Lol

but seriously, Jameis seemed 11x better last season. The team is the reason their winning, not jameis

The same Gator fan that said trade everything for Matthew Stafford and wanted Kelvin Benjamin?

I don't care where they play college ball. If they can help the Jets, bring it. I don't think he can.

[Ex-Rex]

The Jets have Shawn Oakman written all over them.

Only if Rex is still around. I hope for an offensive lineman since it is unlikely Jets will be bad enough for top three pick. Anywhere from 5-to-8 is where I see the 6-10 Jets drafting at. I can't see yet ANOTHER first round pick on defense, especially since they have missed on most of the ones they have takem already. Kyle Wilson, Mo Wilk, Coples, Milliner, Richardson, Pryor and only two of these seem legimate players - Wilk and Richardson. Best go offense and leave the defense til later rounds and they might get lucky.

 

Brandon Scherff!!!  The Jets need help on the 0-line...

Also it would enable the Jets to run the ball with authority again. That is what has been missing in the offense. They run it well sporadically but they need to get back to the ground and pound mentaility since it seems best to make Geno a caretaker, game manager rather than a Brady/Manning type which he is not.

[jgb]

Will LOL hard if we have a top 3 pick and end up taking another DL like Leonard Williams

 

the good teams always go BAP regardless of any other consideration dontcha know?

[BroadwayJets]

The same Gator fan that said trade everything for Matthew Stafford and wanted Kelvin Benjamin?

I don't care where they play college ball. If they can help the Jets, bring it. I don't think he can.

Completely joking. I agree about Jameis 100%, really hasn't played up to expectations this season. Looks decently worse than last year, still one of the best qbs that could be coming out this year but if he's digressing, sends a bad signal. He had the best team around him last year and now it's pretty evident that that was a huge reason why he was so good.

[flgreen]

He's a moron on the field too.  Terrible decision maker and they dont play anyone, so thats a huge concern.  I think he's going to be terrible when he actually has to read a defense, make quick good decisions, go through his progressions and deliver the ball through windows.  I honestly dont think he can do any of those things.  He's a one read QB who still makes stupid mistakes and tries to force everything with arm strength.  Eventually his stupidity has to catch up to him.  He's not going to have an entire town and University covering up for him in the NFL. 

IDK JiF. 

 

Think your watching this kid with your Gator's glasses on.   The player I'm seeing week in and out is the same guy who came back against Auburn (not such a bad team) and scored 21 clutch points in the 4th 1/4, to win by 3.

 

Kids decisions off the field are terrible, but on the field he looks like a monster to me

[CaliforniaJet]

If we pick outside the top ten I want Perriman from Miami. 

[SoFlaJets]

racist

No JiF Shane's no racist but I'll tell you this as bad as it sounds to say it or write it I will anyway because I think you guys know me well enough by now liberal a-hole and all that I am. Me? I want the Jets to have a white QB next. The milky white kind that the NFL loves to have it's officials PROTECT, Guys like Tommy Boy or Peyton or even his autistic little brother. The type of guy that wins SB MVP awards. No more Mexicans or black guys who they allow to get practically killed before they throw a Roughing flag. I like Connor Cook-he even has red hair and frigging freckles

[slats]

the good teams always go BAP regardless of any other consideration dontcha know?

That's what the smart teams do, 100%. Especially in the early rounds. Only exception is the QB position, where you might reach for one of you don't have one, or pass on one if you do. You fill the holes in your roster thru free agency, thereby freeing you up to go BAP thru the first three rounds.

Drafting for need, especially early, is a recipe for a bad draft.

[SoFlaJets]

That's what the smart teams do, 100%. Especially in the early rounds. Only exception is the QB position, where you might reach for one of you don't have one, or pass on one if you do. You fill the holes in your roster thru free agency, thereby freeing you up to go BAP thru the first three rounds.

Drafting for need, especially early, is a recipe for a bad draft.

You mean like picking a second coming of Jack Tatum safety who is looking more and more like the 2nd coming of Kerry Rhodes instead

[slats]

You mean like picking a second coming of Jack Tatum safety who is looking more and more like the 2nd coming of Kerry Rhodes instead

John Idzik's best pick -by far- was as far from a need as possible, and panned here excessively at the time: Sheldon Richardson. The need picks at CB, WR, OL, QB, have all been pretty much crap.

[stevegrunder]

John Idzik's best pick -by far- was as far from a need as possible, and panned here excessively at the time: Sheldon Richardson. The need picks at CB, WR, OL, QB, have all been pretty much crap.

 

Not only that, it also rendered a recent former 1st round pick as useless in Coples. Perhaps Coples would have been useless anyway, but that was the nail in the coffin for Coples.

[CotcheryifyouCan]

winston reminds me more of a byron leftwitch. long delivery when he throws

[JustInFudge]

Completely joking. I agree about Jameis 100%, really hasn't played up to expectations this season. Looks decently worse than last year, still one of the best qbs that could be coming out this year but if he's digressing, sends a bad signal. He had the best team around him last year and now it's pretty evident that that was a huge reason why he was so good.

 

He's no where near the player he was last year with all that talent surrounding him.  And he really wasnt that good to begin with.  He's taking advantage of a cupcake schedule where his team is 100x better than everyone they face.  Its Lienart, all over again.

 

IDK JiF. 

 

Think your watching this kid with your Gator's glasses on.   The player I'm seeing week in and out is the same guy who came back against Auburn (not such a bad team) and scored 21 clutch points in the 4th 1/4, to win by 3.

 

Kids decisions off the field are terrible, but on the field he looks like a monster to me

 

I'm very capable of removing bias and the truth is, I dont really care about FSU.  They're in a joke of a conference and up until last year have been irrelevant for over a decade.  I wanted the Jets to draft Kelvin Benjamin, as an example.  I liked Joyner a lot too.  The only reason they beat Auburn is because they had the ball last.  Again, he's never faced a good to decent defense.  Ever.  ND is terrible and they should have lost that game.  He's not going to be a good pro IMHO.  Just doesnt have the make up and his game is not that refined. 

 

My very first thread on this site was, trade the entire draft for Matthew Stafford.  I hate Georgia more than any other team in the SEC with a passion.  

.

 

No JiF Shane's no racist but I'll tell you this as bad as it sounds to say it or write it I will anyway because I think you guys know me well enough by now liberal a-hole and all that I am. Me? I want the Jets to have a white QB next. The milky white kind that the NFL loves to have it's officials PROTECT, Guys like Tommy Boy or Peyton or even his autistic little brother. The type of guy that wins SB MVP awards. No more Mexicans or black guys who they allow to get practically killed before they throw a Roughing flag. I like Connor Cook-he even has red hair and frigging freckles

 

Black, White, Puerto Rican or Haitian.  I dont give a sh*t.  Just be good.  For once/

[Jack Straw]

Ignoring all of the off the field stuff, I'm not a huge fan of Winston. I don't see him making a ton of "nfl throws" and he looks to chuck it when under pressure. His talent is undeniable, but I think he's overrated at this point.

[Obrien2Toon]

If we pick outside the top ten I want Perriman from Miami.

Not another defensive player

[IPBanBadPosters]

That's what the smart teams do, 100%. Especially in the early rounds. Only exception is the QB position, where you might reach for one of you don't have one, or pass on one if you do. You fill the holes in your roster thru free agency, thereby freeing you up to go BAP thru the first three rounds.

Drafting for need, especially early, is a recipe for a bad draft.

 

I agree with drafting BPA as a general rule of thumb, but if the difference between player A and player B is marginal, and player A plays a position you have strong depth at while player B plays a position that you have zero talent at, I go with player B all day.

[slats]

I agree with drafting BPA as a general rule of thumb, but if the difference between player A and player B is marginal, and player A plays a position you have strong depth at while player B plays a position that you have zero talent at, I go with player B all day.

That's why you address the holes on your roster before the draft thru FA, so you can take better player every time.

[jgb]

That's what the smart teams do, 100%. Especially in the early rounds. Only exception is the QB position, where you might reach for one of you don't have one, or pass on one if you do. You fill the holes in your roster thru free agency, thereby freeing you up to go BAP thru the first three rounds.

Drafting for need, especially early, is a recipe for a bad draft.

Or maybe teams that are already good have the luxury of going pure BAP. Correlation does not equal causation.

[SenorGato]

Tom off course being the racist he is, compared him to Newton but that's not the comparison.  The comparison is Lienart.  Both played with all world talent in a bull sh*t conference (at the time both were/are playing) with the best OL, the best skills players vs. the most cupcake schedule in the NCAA. He has all the time in the world, throwing to wide open guys, who can take a 5 yards out to the house.  They're 100% more talented at every single position the field vs. every single opponent they face.  And Winston when pressing, isnt very good.

 

Leinart is exactly who comes to mind with Winston.

 

That list is depressing but Geno's got this.

 

[slats]

Or maybe teams that are already good have the luxury of going pure BAP. Correlation does not equal causation.

Lol. You're in too much of a rush to disagree. Of course correlation equals causation in this example. The GM who consistently drafts the highest rated prospects regardless of need will produce a more talented roster, and do it faster, than the GM who consistently passes on the better prospects to fill needs. That's simple logic.

You fill needs as best as you can thru free agency, and select the best prospects in the draft.

[Pac]

I see JiF is very active in this thread.  Now I don't know any of the names in the first post and haven't watched 1 play of college football in years but I do know JiF is not to be trusted.  I vividly recall him working himself up into a lather in the draft thread when we picked Brian Winters.  Called it "a great move" and "watch this guy" blah blah..

 

Just a friendly public service announcement...  carry on.

[Shadetree]

Because he might be wrong about winters doesn't mean he's wrong.

BAP=Gurley

....and he should (might?) be there for us.

[jgb]

Lol. You're in too much of a rush to disagree. Of course correlation equals causation in this example. The GM who consistently drafts the highest rated prospects regardless of need will produce a more talented roster, and do it faster, than the GM who consistently passes on the better prospects to fill needs. That's simple logic.

You fill needs as best as you can thru free agency, and select the best prospects in the draft.

 

talented but unbalanced. you can't win with 6 pro bowl running backs and drek everywhere else. a little secret for ya: no team go pure BAP. sure it sounds good and a lot of GMs like to say it, and in an ideal world if FA breaks perfectly than yes you can go pure BAP, but as a practical matter it doesn't exist. you admitted that BAP has an exception for QB, so even you agree that there is no such thing as "pure BAP." even when you agree, you still have to disagree. because like, who knows man.

[Matt39]

Everyone's on the Jameis sucks bandwagon now I see.

[slats]

talented but unbalanced. you can't win with 6 pro bowl running backs and drek everywhere else. a little secret for ya: no team go pure BAP. sure it sounds good and a lot of GMs like to say it, and in an ideal world if FA breaks perfectly than yes you can go pure BAP, but as a practical matter it doesn't exist. you admitted that BAP has an exception for QB, so even you agree that there is no such thing as "pure BAP." even when you agree, you still have to disagree. because like, who knows man.

The best ones do go BAP consistently. The odds are stacked against the the BAP being a RB six times in a row. The law of averages balances out the team - as does addressing needs thru free agency, something I've repeated and you've ignored. You can make the case to draft a QB regardless, too. That's how the Packers wound up with Aaron Rogers. Worked out for them. The smart guys stick to their board. The skittish guys draft for need, and put together a lesser product as a result.

Or maybe teams that are already good have the luxury of going pure BAP. Correlation does not equal causation.

Teams get already good by drafting the best players, not by passing over the best players to fill needs. The idea that you're going to improve your team faster (if at all) by passing over better prospects for immediate needs is ridiculous. That's how bad teams (and bad GMs) fall further behind.

[IPBanBadPosters]

That's why you address the holes on your roster before the draft thru FA, so you can take better player every time.

 

Ideally yes, but rarely do you fill all of your holes through FA unless you're already a very complete team.

 

Because he might be wrong about winters doesn't mean he's wrong.

BAP=Gurley

....and he should (might?) be there for us.

 

^ This is another example of why pure BPA is nonsensical. If we waste a top 3-5 pick on a RB it will be perfectly symptomatic of SOJ dysfunction.

 

talented but unbalanced. you can't win with 6 pro bowl running backs and drek everywhere else. a little secret for ya: no team go pure BAP. sure it sounds good and a lot of GMs like to say it, and in an ideal world if FA breaks perfectly than yes you can go pure BAP, but as a practical matter it doesn't exist. you admitted that BAP has an exception for QB, so even you agree that there is no such thing as "pure BAP." even when you agree, you still have to disagree. because like, who knows man.

 

+1, good post.

 

Everyone's on the Jameis sucks bandwagon now I see.

 

I've been driving that bandwagon for some time now.

[slats]

Ideally yes, but rarely do you fill all of your holes through FA unless you're already a very complete team.

 

You can target your primary needs in free agency whether or not you're a "complete team." If you're that full of holes, going BAP only makes that much more sense. Setting yourself up so that you have to take a WR or a CB in the first or second round is a recipe for draft disaster.

 

^ This is another example of why pure BPA is nonsensical. If we waste a top 3-5 pick on a RB it will be perfectly symptomatic of SOJ dysfunction.

 

Players get rated partially based on their position, and RB's have been downgraded in recent years. A RB would only emerge as a top 3-5 BAP type pick in an extremely weak draft.

 

+1, good post.

No it's not. It's one of those slippery-slope hypotheticals that has no real meaning in the real world.

[jgb]

The best ones do go BAP consistently. The odds are stacked against the the BAP being a RB six times in a row. The law of averages balances out the team - as does addressing needs thru free agency, something I've repeated and you've ignored. You can make the case to draft a QB regardless, too. That's how the Packers wound up with Aaron Rogers. Worked out for them. The smart guys stick to their board. The skittish guys draft for need, and put together a lesser product as a result.

Teams get already good by drafting the best players, not by passing over the best players to fill needs. The idea that you're going to improve your team faster (if at all) by passing over better prospects for immediate needs is ridiculous. That's how bad teams (and bad GMs) fall further behind.

 

i think probably the best teams go more BAP because the best teams generally have few glaring needs. so again, it's a chicken and egg kind of thing. but i also think BAP is a spectrum. every team obviously has a board with everyone ranked, and teams with more needs allow more flex on that board in positions of serious need than those with less holes. so ya, good teams will generally stick more to the script.

[jgb]

 

 

No it's not. It's one of those slippery-slope hypotheticals that has no real meaning in the real world.

 

i just think it is a little simplistic to believe there is a GM out there who does nothing on draft day and just reads the next name on the list because hey, if you are going BAP there is no work left to be done. just cross off the names that are called like bingo and call the highest guy left when it is your turn because each pick has no affect on later picks since you're just going down the list with zero consideration to team makeup. you got a CB in round one? doesn't matter, no reshuffle of the board necessary because if it's another CB at the top of the list when round 2 comes along, we go BAP so what's it matter? these teams must only need one secretary with "The List" and a single phone in the war room with instructions to call the GM on the golf course only if someone inquires about a trade.

[jgb]

Ideally yes, but rarely do you fill all of your holes through FA unless you're already a very complete team.

 

 

Reminds me of an old joke. A physicist, a chemist and an economist are stuck on a desert island with no food for three days. A can of soup washes on shore but they have no way to open it. The physicist says, "Let's drop it from the palm tree and use the force of gravity to split it open." The chemist says, "We could make a fire and put the can into it so that the heat increases the pressure in the can and it bursts open." The economist shakes his head, "Gentlemen, both of those methods will waste most of the soup. All we have to due is assume we have a can opener..."

[slats]

i think probably the best teams go more BAP because the best teams generally have few glaring needs. so again, it's a chicken and egg kind of thing. but i also think BAP is a spectrum. every team obviously has a board with everyone ranked, and teams with more needs allow more flex on that board in positions of serious need than those with less holes. so ya, good teams will generally stick more to the script.

If you pass on the better prospects to fill specific needs, you'll never be one of the good teams - you'll consistently just fall further behind them.

[jgb]

If you pass on the better prospects to fill specific needs, you'll never be one of the good teams - you'll consistently just fall further behind them.

 

i think there is a middle ground. i'm not saying a smart team should take #50 on it's board over #1 just because #50 fills a need. but if the choice is between #1 and #3? yeah, #3 might make sense if there is a need there and #1 is a luxury pick at a position of strength. Besides, i'm not sure every team ranks every player in absolute linear order. More likely that many guys are put into groups, especially outside of the first or second tier of prospects, and then need and prior picks plays a bigger part when deciding who from that group you will pick.

[slats]

i think there is a middle ground. i'm not saying a smart team should take #50 on it's board over #1 just because #50 fills a need. but if the choice is between #1 and #3? yeah, #3 might make sense if there is a need there and #1 is a luxury pick at a position of strength. Besides, i'm not sure every team ranks every player in absolute linear order. Just as likely that many guys are put into "groups," especially outside of the first or second tier of prospects, and then need and prior picks plays a bigger part when deciding who from that group you will pick.

Then you fall a little bit behind at a time.

If the top pick on your board is a position of strength, you're in position down the road to trade a player or let a player go rather than pay him. There are all sorts of factors involved in drafting the best players. Getting stronger or staying strong are both important. John Idzik's best pick in two years was at a position of strength. You don't let that kind of thing stand in the way of drafting a potential stud.

Once you get out of the top 100 guys or so, then you can start filling needs as the separation between players gets cloudier. But those first three rounds should be BAP all the way, and that's what the smart guys do.

[jgb]

Then you fall a little bit behind at a time.

If the top pick on your board is a position of strength, you're in position down the road to trade a player or let a player go rather than pay him. There are all sorts of factors involved in drafting the best players. Getting stronger or staying strong are both important. John Idzik's best pick in two years was at a position of strength. You don't let that kind of thing stand in the way of drafting a potential stud.

Once you get out of the top 100 guys or so, then you can start filling needs as the separation between players gets cloudier. But those first three rounds should be BAP all the way, and that's what the smart guys do.

 

yeah i wasn't referring to #1 overall, I was referring to top guy left when it's your turn in a given round. sounds like we are actually agreeing?

 

ps: you keep saying that's what the smart guys do--says who? you already said QB was the exception, do these smart guys also agree?