Integrity28 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Despite the Browns defense shutting down Cincy last night, if you look at this season the offense (which is made up of no-name talent) is the primary reason that the Browns are winning. I think Shanahan has done an incredible job building an offense that works around a myriad of players with limitations, he seems to understand how to coach to their strengths, and he's done this the better part of his time as an offensive coordinator. He did it successfully with the Redskins, implementing an offense that got the best out of RG3 and then Cousins when he came on in relief. He did it in Houston with Schaub. In my opinion, if the Jets do fire Rex and go the route of hiring yet another rookie head coach, this guy should be a top 3 candidate. He's already one of the better OC's in football, given his track record, he's proven he can win without 1st rounders all over the place, which tells me he can develop and find a place for all levels of talent, and I'm sure there's got to be benefit to having a father who was a head coach. Jay Gruden seems down on Cousins, so it is conceivable that we could trade for him (if we can't sign Hoyer, or perhaps we add both and let them compete, like for real compete, not what went on here this season). Shanahan, plus 2 low-cost, experienced QBs he's had success with would be a good starting point. It allows us to approach the draft without being desperate for a QB. We can address the OL, the secondary, continue to build the WR corps. Bonus would be that Kyle Shanahan could probably turn Amaro into a monster in that offense. Anyway, just some thoughts/observations about candidates... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 hurts to see a team like cleveland winning and looking impressive. they flopped a recent first round pick (trent richardson) and lost their best player for most of the season (josh gordon) and are led by a journeyman QB (brian hoyer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotcheryifyouCan Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Not a bad thought. Didn't he have issues with RGIII tho? Or was that just the case of RGIII being an ass hat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 hurts to see a team like cleveland winning and looking impressive. they flopped a recent first round pick (trent richardson) and lost their best player for most of the season (josh gordon) and are led by a journeyman QB (brian hoyer). Yup. Lends credence to the fact that coaching does in fact matter, and it's not just about "need moar talentz". Seriously though, Shanny's offense has accomplished what it has without their best 3 offensive players: Alex Mack, Josh Gordon and Jordan Cameron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 Not a bad thought. Didn't he have issues with RGIII tho? Or was that just the case of RGIII being an ass hat Issues? I don't think so. Either way, I think RG3 is an issue in general. He'll never materialize into what the lead wants him to. I think Shanny did a good job getting good football out of him, but he had to build the entire offense differently for RG3, and then when he got hurt he flipped the offense mid-season to fit Cousins, and he obviously got great play from him. Much better play than Jay Gruden has gotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Straw Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 So we fire the guy (Rex) who groomed the guy (Pettine) who groomed the guy (Shanahan) we're going to hire? Nice. I don't see how this could possibly go wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Remember when the Browns scored 6 points vs. the Jaguars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obrien2Toon Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 So we fire the guy (Rex) who groomed the guy (Pettine) who groomed the guy (Shanahan) we're going to hire? Nice. I don't see how this could possibly go wrong. Lol, but he was groomed by his dad more than likely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sourceworx Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Personally I'd prefer a guy with head coaching experience. However if we're going to the hot coordinator route, he wouldn't be a bad choice. His father had success as a head coach. He could be someone Kyle would lean on for advice. The guy has gotten a unit that isn't very talented to perform well. He got Cousins to perform very well, something Gruden has failed to do. Hell who knows, maybe he can turn Geno into a decent QB. Not a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunAticcalm Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Jay Gruden seems down on Cousins, so it is conceivable that we could trade for him (if we can't sign Hoyer, or perhaps we add both and let them compete, like for real compete, not what went on here this season). Shanahan, plus 2 low-cost, experienced QBs he's had success with would be a good starting point. It allows us to approach the draft without being desperate for a QB. We can address the OL, the secondary, continue to build the WR corps. Yeah I could definitely roll with this, it's worth a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 Remember when the Browns scored 6 points vs. the Jaguars? The Browns have less talent on their offense than the Jets, a bad game here and there is forgivable. The reality remains that Shanny has built strong offenses around Schaub, Cousins, RG3 and Hoyer. None of which is a good QB. None of which was surrounded with a roster full of weaponzzzz... on top of the QB work, he helped make Arian Foster, he helped make Alfred Morris and he is on his way to making beasts out of Tate, West and Crowell. I think he's as good a candidate as Bevell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 The Browns have less talent on their offense than the Jets, a bad game here and there is forgivable. The reality remains that Shanny has built strong offenses around Schaub, Cousins, RG3 and Hoyer. None of which is a good QB. None of which was surrounded with a roster full of weaponzzzz... on top of the QB work, he helped make Arian Foster, he helped make Alfred Morris and he is on his way to making beasts out of Tate, West and Crowell. I think he's as good a candidate as Bevell. Agreed. I''ll take young Shanny all day every day over Bevell and that boring 1930's offense he calls. He's as good of a candidate if your looking at the coordinators ranks, as any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Despite the Browns defense shutting down Cincy last night, if you look at this season the offense (which is made up of no-name talent) is the primary reason that the Browns are winning. I think Shanahan has done an incredible job building an offense that works around a myriad of players with limitations, he seems to understand how to coach to their strengths, and he's done this the better part of his time as an offensive coordinator. He did it successfully with the Redskins, implementing an offense that got the best out of RG3 and then Cousins when he came on in relief. He did it in Houston with Schaub. In my opinion, if the Jets do fire Rex and go the route of hiring yet another rookie head coach, this guy should be a top 3 candidate. He's already one of the better OC's in football, given his track record, he's proven he can win without 1st rounders all over the place, which tells me he can develop and find a place for all levels of talent, and I'm sure there's got to be benefit to having a father who was a head coach. Jay Gruden seems down on Cousins, so it is conceivable that we could trade for him (if we can't sign Hoyer, or perhaps we add both and let them compete, like for real compete, not what went on here this season). Shanahan, plus 2 low-cost, experienced QBs he's had success with would be a good starting point. It allows us to approach the draft without being desperate for a QB. We can address the OL, the secondary, continue to build the WR corps. Bonus would be that Kyle Shanahan could probably turn Amaro into a monster in that offense. Anyway, just some thoughts/observations about candidates... I endorse this post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Robbins Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I'm with you except for trying to go after Cousins. He was serviceable early on at times, but he's been brutal this year and last. Even while he's throwing 3 picks and getting benched for McCoy, I still see people suggesting him as a legitimate trade option. If we're looking to bring in competition, I'd be much more comfortable with Bradford or Locker. Maybe even Matt Moore (he's scheduled to be a FA, correct?). I'd be fine with Hoyer as well, although I tend to think the Browns will keep him around. One of those options along with a draft pick would be an improvement over the dumpster fire we have now. That being said, I agree that Kyle Shanahan should be near the top of our list as a possible HC. He seems to get the most out of his players by building an offense around what he has, which is something we've lacked for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OuttaSightPF Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Despite the Browns defense shutting down Cincy last night, if you look at this season the offense (which is made up of no-name talent) is the primary reason that the Browns are winning. I think Shanahan has done an incredible job building an offense that works around a myriad of players with limitations, he seems to understand how to coach to their strengths, and he's done this the better part of his time as an offensive coordinator. He did it successfully with the Redskins, implementing an offense that got the best out of RG3 and then Cousins when he came on in relief. He did it in Houston with Schaub. In my opinion, if the Jets do fire Rex and go the route of hiring yet another rookie head coach, this guy should be a top 3 candidate. He's already one of the better OC's in football, given his track record, he's proven he can win without 1st rounders all over the place, which tells me he can develop and find a place for all levels of talent, and I'm sure there's got to be benefit to having a father who was a head coach. Jay Gruden seems down on Cousins, so it is conceivable that we could trade for him (if we can't sign Hoyer, or perhaps we add both and let them compete, like for real compete, not what went on here this season). Shanahan, plus 2 low-cost, experienced QBs he's had success with would be a good starting point. It allows us to approach the draft without being desperate for a QB. We can address the OL, the secondary, continue to build the WR corps. Bonus would be that Kyle Shanahan could probably turn Amaro into a monster in that offense. Anyway, just some thoughts/observations about candidates... this is an interesting prospect. My question is this... why do we need another HC, wit zero experience, who we can sign cheap? And why do we need two cheap options at QB? I don't have a better idea, but if there is ever a time to spend it's now. I want the highest paid head coach in 2015. Harbaugh, Saban, Gruden... a real game changer who can create a culture of winning. I know this isn't the most desirable landing spot for an elite candidate... but if you consider: A ridiculous salary, highest paid in the NFL A top 3 draft pick in every round (maybe even #1 overall... if Rex really puts his heart into it LOL) 50-60 million in cap room And a bunch of contracts that are structured in a way that we are not really handcuffed to anyone, and at the same time make a bunch of our guys desirable trade bait. And the chance to turn around one of the worst franchises in pro sports... under the bright lights of NYC. A chance to be a legend! Why is it so crazy? If the fat salary is there, no one will criticize an elite candidate for taking the job. There is such a thing as an offer that can't be refused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 this is an interesting prospect. My question is this... why do we need another HC, wit zero experience, who we can sign cheap? And why do we need two cheap options at QB? I don't have a better idea, but if there is ever a time to spend it's now. I want the highest paid head coach in 2015. Harbaugh, Saban, Gruden... a real game changer who can create a culture of winning. I know this isn't the most desirable landing spot for an elite candidate... but if you consider: A ridiculous salary, highest paid in the NFL A top 3 draft pick in every round (maybe even #1 overall... if Rex really puts his heart into it LOL) 50-60 million in cap room And a bunch of contracts that are structured in a way that we are not really handcuffed to anyone, and at the same time make a bunch of our guys desirable trade bait. And the chance to turn around one of the worst franchises in pro sports... under the bright lights of NYC. A chance to be a legend! Why is it so crazy? If the fat salary is there, no one will criticize an elite candidate for taking the job. There is such a thing as an offer that can't be refused. Most head coaching hires are first-time head coaches. I'm not saying we need that, it's just a reality. My comment that the QBs would be cheap is also just a reality. Cousins may not cost much in a trade after how much he sucked this year, and frankly you don't want to trade a lot for him. Hoyer is going to be one of the better FA options available, but he shouldn't cost so much money that you are locked into him for the next 5 years. So, in the case of both of these specific guys, cheap is good. It gets us veteran experience, capable players and improves the QB room substantially. It also allows us to draft a rookie QB and not force him onto the field, so yeah, you want that type of situation to be "cheap" if you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Despite the Browns defense shutting down Cincy last night, if you look at this season the offense (which is made up of no-name talent) is the primary reason that the Browns are winning. I think Shanahan has done an incredible job building an offense that works around a myriad of players with limitations, he seems to understand how to coach to their strengths, and he's done this the better part of his time as an offensive coordinator. He did it successfully with the Redskins, implementing an offense that got the best out of RG3 and then Cousins when he came on in relief. He did it in Houston with Schaub. In my opinion, if the Jets do fire Rex and go the route of hiring yet another rookie head coach, this guy should be a top 3 candidate. He's already one of the better OC's in football, given his track record, he's proven he can win without 1st rounders all over the place, which tells me he can develop and find a place for all levels of talent, and I'm sure there's got to be benefit to having a father who was a head coach. Jay Gruden seems down on Cousins, so it is conceivable that we could trade for him (if we can't sign Hoyer, or perhaps we add both and let them compete, like for real compete, not what went on here this season). Shanahan, plus 2 low-cost, experienced QBs he's had success with would be a good starting point. It allows us to approach the draft without being desperate for a QB. We can address the OL, the secondary, continue to build the WR corps. Bonus would be that Kyle Shanahan could probably turn Amaro into a monster in that offense. Anyway, just some thoughts/observations about candidates... You really need to have a conversation or two with Redskins fans on Cousins and Shanny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbone Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Browns are 4th in the league in terms of how many points per game they give up and 6th in total points. That's a fairly important factor as to why they are 6-3. Granted, they do give up a good amount of yards, but they've done a good job of not giving up points. Some quick back of the envelope numbers: Shanahan Averages since 2010: Total Yards: 11.6, Pass Yds: 13.8, Rush Yds: 14.2 & Total Points: 17.8 Jets Averages since 2010: Total Yds: 21.4, Pass Yds: 28.6, Rush Yds: 9.2 & Total Points: 22 Obviously he's much better at creating an offense that can get yards through the passing game, which no doubt is extremely important in today's NFL, but in terms of rushing and points, its marginal. Over the last 5 seasons Shanahan coached offenses have scored approximately 1.8 more ppg than the Jets. Considering how awful our offenses have been the past few years (which really skew the numbers IMO) I'd like to see stronger numbers in that area. Especially when you consider he is an offensive guy and I'm comparing him to a defensive minded team (in theory) who has been utterly inept on the offensive side of the ball. I don't see a top 3 head coach candidate. Maybe in the future, but now? That's a difficult proposition for me to accept. Kid has the pedigree and bloodline for it, so I'm sure he'll get his opportunities in the near future. Just don't see it happening in the next year. But I'm open minded and a persuasive argument might sway me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Yup. Lends credence to the fact that coaching does in fact matter, and it's not just about "need moar talentz". Seriously though, Shanny's offense has accomplished what it has without their best 3 offensive players: Alex Mack, Josh Gordon and Jordan Cameron. yup imagine what happens if they come back healthy ... Possible SB run since that defense is playing lights out right now and Pettine has the blue prints on how to stop Manning and Brady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OuttaSightPF Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Most head coaching hires are first-time head coaches. I'm not saying we need that, it's just a reality. My comment that the QBs would be cheap is also just a reality. Cousins may not cost much in a trade after how much he sucked this year, and frankly you don't want to trade a lot for him. Hoyer is going to be one of the better FA options available, but he shouldn't cost so much money that you are locked into him for the next 5 years. So, in the case of both of these specific guys, cheap is good. It gets us veteran experience, capable players and improves the QB room substantially. It also allows us to draft a rookie QB and not force him onto the field, so yeah, you want that type of situation to be "cheap" if you will. At 6-3, with the potential to win 9 or 10 games this season the Hoyer dream is over. He won't be a free agent in 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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