Let's talk more Jet GM idiocy

[lancemehl]

Ok, we've beat the Sanchez thing to death, which is a blunder that hasn't even started to fully reveal itself. Sanchez is 27, with ALL the tools to be a steady top 10, winning qb, including big game experience and a doctorate from the school of rock bottom hard knocks.....both of which we strapped him with before letting him walk away. It will actually be MUCH worse than the "O'Brien over Marino folly" since we actually mortgaged the farm to draft the kid, had him, and then......well, you know.

Then, of course, there are the cornerbacks, two of the best in the game, that we could have had twice over with the extra cash we have laying around, but instead decided pass coverage wasnt THAT important.

But lets talk about RB now. They had two guys capable of starting, both 26, and went out and signed a big FA as the third, an accomplished veteran, age 29.

Now they have a 29 year old star on the downside of his career, unhappy with the number of carries he is getting, about 10. He is starting to bitch. Nobody realized this would b an issue on a team with 2 other RBs and a coach who loves to pass....even though he's already been known to bitch about carries in TEN.

He's on year one of a two year contract.

Then there's a beast, the team's best back, a punisher who emerged last year as a JET. He is 26, on year two of a 3 year contract and is also horribly underused and has to be looking for the exit asap....another guy we primed and then force to go seek a more competent football environment.

Then there is Powell, age 26, who was ignored, on the last year of a 4 year contract, who will probably leave and blow up somewhere else.

So, where is the plan exactly? Im just asking.....

Please discuss....

[Obrien2Toon]

Sanchez has looked like himself. He barely had a 50% completion rate.

Put Geno with Kelly and he does at least as good, most likely better.

This has to do with coaching not management

[19andOhWait]

89 turnovers in 4 years as a Jet. Sanchez blew it, good riddance. let the Eagles organization and fans deal with him now. 

 

they paid CJ?K so they want to use him. understandable. Ivory is the better pounder, everyone can see that. I'd chalk that up to the coaches being stubborn. CJ will play out his contract and be gone. 

 

cornerback though, no excuses, Idzik botched that position so so bad. I'm not gonna throw in the towel on Milliner/Mcdougle yet, but damn hes done a poor job with that position group. 

 

his "plan" seems to be: spend wisely in FA, if at all, and build through the draft. but if he swings and misses again in this springs draft, good chance he's a goner 

[FlagmanL11]

There is no plan, spending $7MM this year on Harvin at 1-6 shows that, where Cro could have been resigned for half that.  Granted he did not have the best of years, but they then signed Patterson who went AWOL.  Woody not taking the call from Revis was a smack in the face to all the PSL holders who invested in this team and of course is a huge asset in the Rex def scheme.  Draft picks that don't play kind of ruins the plan to have 10-20 roster spots at or slightly above league minimum.  Don't think CJ was a bad signing, but he was supposed to be a swing back, with 5-10 targets per game on screens.  Problem was Geno could not execute even that.  Powell will be gone as you said, but I doubt he will be any better than 500 yds per year somewhere else, plus I think he was hurt a bit this year. 

 

Harvin will be a FA at the end of the year, what then?  Wilk needs an extension and Revis will be out there again as a FA. When is the plan come March 10th or thereabouts when the 2015 league season opens?????

[Jetsfan80]

Idzik has been better than Tannenbaum when it comes to free agency and trades.  I'll take guys like Decker, Harvin, Ivory and even guys like Antwan Barnes, CJ and that sh*tty $3M corner over overpays on guys like Bart Scott, Holmes, etc. 

 

But Idzik is most certainly terrible so far on drafting, which is what we could not afford.  That's something that requires a dramatic overhaul.  If Idzik isn't fired he needs to justify why he's allowed to choose the surrounding members of the front office around him in order to improve. 

[BroadwayJets]

Idzik has been better than Tannenbaum when it comes to free agency and trades.  I'll take guys like Decker, Harvin, Ivory and even guys like Antwan Barnes, CJ and that sh*tty $3M corner over overpays on guys like Bart Scott, Holmes, etc. 

 

But Idzik is most certainly terrible so far on drafting, which is what we could not afford.  That's something that requires a dramatic overhaul.  If Idzik isn't fired he needs to justify why he's allowed to choose the surrounding members of the front office around him in order to improve. 

This. This is it.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

Ok, we've beat the Sanchez thing to death, which is a blunder that hasn't even started to fully reveal itself. Sanchez is 27, with ALL the tools to be a steady top 10, winning qb, including big game experience and a doctorate from the school of rock bottom hard knocks.....both of which we strapped him with before letting him walk away. It will actually be MUCH worse than the "O'Brien over Marino folly" since we actually mortgaged the farm to draft the kid, had him, and then......well, you know.

Then, of course, there are the cornerbacks, two of the best in the game, that we could have had twice over with the extra cash we have laying around, but instead decided pass coverage wasnt THAT important.

But lets talk about RB now. They had two guys capable of starting, both 26, and went out and signed a big FA as the third, an accomplished veteran, age 29.

Now they have a 29 year old star on the downside of his career, unhappy with the number of carries he is getting, about 10. He is starting to bitch. Nobody realized this would b an issue on a team with 2 other RBs and a coach who loves to pass....even though he's already been known to bitch about carries in TEN.

He's on year one of a two year contract.

Then there's a beast, the team's best back, a punisher who emerged last year as a JET. He is 26, on year two of a 3 year contract and is also horribly underused and has to be looking for the exit asap....another guy we primed and then force to go seek a more competent football environment.

Then there is Powell, age 26, who was ignored, on the last year of a 4 year contract, who will probably leave and blow up somewhere else.

So, where is the plan exactly? Im just asking.....

Please discuss....

 

If Sanchize becomes a top ten QB, then we will have something to discuss. Until then?

 

I recall that the reason the Jets went out and got CJ was because of his ability to catch the ball in space and run with it. He was supposed to be LT part 2. Yet the gameplan doesn't seem to incorporate him to his full ability. Go figure.

 

CB -- you're correct. That was a mess. Why they didn't simply re-sign Cro at bargain basement prices is absolutely beyond me. Revis, I get. Price tag was exhorbitant and he had baggage with this team. Not pursuing Rogers-Cromartie was also penny-wise. With the injury to McDougle and Patterson's mental illness, we were totally f'd.

 

Harvin was a good signing.

 

Finally, the biggest issue has always been Geno. If he plays well, we're a lot better team. If he tanks, he takes the team with him. He's been frankly abysmal. We're once again running a crippled offense. Too bad we don't have Stanton , but Vick is showing some life.

[Jetsfan80]

I recall that the reason the Jets went out and got CJ was because of his ability to catch the ball in space and run with it. He was supposed to be LT part 2. Yet the gameplan doesn't seem to incorporate him to his full ability. Go figure.

 

The crux of the matter is that Chris Johnson was a pure speedback who no longer has speed.  That's kind of a problem.  LT was useful because he could do a lot of things to help us even in his early 30's.  He was still shifty and didn't require straight-line speed to be effective. 

 

I don't mind that move, however.  We needed dynamic playmakers on offense and CJ was billed as one.  Any one of us would have made that signing 10 times out of 10. 

[afosomf]

Idzik has been better than Tannenbaum when it comes to free agency and trades.  I'll take guys like Decker, Harvin, Ivory and even guys like Antwan Barnes, CJ and that sh*tty $3M corner over overpays on guys like Bart Scott, Holmes, etc. 

 

But Idzik is most certainly terrible so far on drafting, which is what we could not afford.  That's something that requires a dramatic overhaul.  If Idzik isn't fired he needs to justify why he's allowed to choose the surrounding members of the front office around him in order to improve. 

Really??? 

1) bart scott was a rexey pickup ,remember he was in Scott's driveway barking like an idiot I minute past midnight. Holmes was a turd, but he was SB MVP. 

 

IMO harvin will not be on team next yr. Ivory will not have a long shelf life do to running style. Decker is Ok nothing special.

[#27TheDominator]

Idzik has been better than Tannenbaum when it comes to free agency and trades.  I'll take guys like Decker, Harvin, Ivory and even guys like Antwan Barnes, CJ and that sh*tty $3M corner over overpays on guys like Bart Scott, Holmes, etc. 

 

But Idzik is most certainly terrible so far on drafting, which is what we could not afford.  That's something that requires a dramatic overhaul.  If Idzik isn't fired he needs to justify why he's allowed to choose the surrounding members of the front office around him in order to improve. 

 

Eh.  I never liked the guy, but the Thomas Jones deal worked out pretty well.  Trading for Jenkins, Braylon and Holmes was great.  It was re-signing Holmes that was bad.  Just like what was given up to get Sanchez was not the end of the world, but the extension brutal.  People always forget the good deals that Tannenbaum made - like bringing over Damien Woody.  That was a huge signing and it was far from a no-brainer to think he would be such a beast at RT.

[#27TheDominator]

The crux of the matter is that Chris Johnson was a pure speedback who no longer has speed.  That's kind of a problem.  LT was useful because he could do a lot of things to help us even in his early 30's.  He was still shifty and didn't require straight-line speed to be effective. 

 

I don't mind that move, however.  We needed dynamic playmakers on offense and CJ was billed as one.  Any one of us would have made that signing 10 times out of 10. 

 

False.  Especially if I am one of your 10.  First of all, I don't think Johnson has "lost his speed."  If it were that simple they are idiots for signing him.  I am pretty sure they work these guys out before they sign.  If they didn't, why didn't they?  The problem with Johnson is that they already had backs and he has been a bit of a malcontent in the past.  He is also not a natural receiver, no matter how many balls he has caught in his career.  That can be a problem particularly with our inaccurate QBs.  

 

The most important thing is that the team needed a WR2.  Instead, they drafted a TE and signed an RB.  Johnson has seemed useless splitting out wide and that money probably would have been better spent on a next tier WR like Andre Roberts or James Jones.  The Jets were supposedly interested in Jones and they needed a WR much more than a back.  Maybe Idzik thought one of the picks would step up, but that was his major miscalculation anyway.  That is not even getting into the (lack of) money allocated at CB. 

[jgb]

False.  Especially if I am one of your 10.  First of all, I don't think Johnson has "lost his speed."  If it were that simple they are idiots for signing him.  I am pretty sure they work these guys out before they sign.  If they didn't, why didn't they?  The problem with Johnson is that they already had backs and he has been a bit of a malcontent in the past.  He is also not a natural receiver, no matter how many balls he has caught in his career.  That can be a problem particularly with our inaccurate QBs.  

 

The most important thing is that the team needed a WR2.  Instead, they drafted a TE and signed an RB.  Johnson has seemed useless splitting out wide and that money probably would have been better spent on a next tier WR like Andre Roberts or James Jones.  The Jets were supposedly interested in Jones and they needed a WR much more than a back.  Maybe Idzik thought one of the picks would step up, but that was his major miscalculation anyway.  That is not even getting into the (lack of) money allocated at CB. 

 

how great would decker+djax be

[Jetsfan80]

The most important thing is that the team needed a WR2.  Instead, they drafted a TE and signed an RB.  Johnson has seemed useless splitting out wide and that money probably would have been better spent on a next tier WR like Andre Roberts or James Jones.  The Jets were supposedly interested in Jones and they needed a WR much more than a back.  Maybe Idzik thought one of the picks would step up, but that was his major miscalculation anyway.  That is not even getting into the (lack of) money allocated at CB. 

 

We're not far off on agreement here.  The reason we needed a WR1 and WR2 so badly is failed draft picks.  Tannenbaum whiffed on Hill and Idzik couldn't find an impact WR in a 2014 draft packed to the brim with standout performers. 

 

You can't fix all your problems in free agency, so it's OK that we didn't sign a James Jones-esque guy.  What hurts the most is a draft where we had 12 picks and we pretty much missed on every single one of them.

[Jetsfan80]

Really??? 

1) bart scott was a rexey pickup ,remember he was in Scott's driveway barking like an idiot I minute past midnight. Holmes was a turd, but he was SB MVP.

 

Signing Holmes wasn't the issue.  Handing him $50M was.  Tannenbaum overpaid way too many people while he was here, including Bart Scott as well as David Harris and, of course, Mark Sanchez.  Idzik did a nice job getting our cap into good shape after the mess Tannenbaum created.  He also did well by not signing people significantly over market price.  For that he deserves credit.  Had he nailed his two drafts our roster would be shaping up quite nicely.  But he didn't and here we are with holes all over the place.

[flgreen]

Signing Holmes wasn't the issue.  Handing him $50M was.  Tannenbaum overpaid way too many people while he was here, including Bart Scott as well as David Harris and, of course, Mark Sanchez.  Idzik did a nice job getting our cap into good shape after the mess Tannenbaum created.  He also did well by not signing people significantly over market price.  For that he deserves credit.  Had he nailed his two drafts our roster would be shaping up quite nicely.  But he didn't and here we are with holes all over the place.

The over paying, and Sanchez, was Mike T's downfall. I understand why they did it. The Jets believed they had a team that could win in all in 2011, or 2012. They gambled on Sanchez developing,keeping the team intact, and bringing in what they thought were the few missing pieces for the championship.

They gambled and lost. Tannenbaum lost his job. Oh well

[Jetsfan80]

The over paying, and Sanchez, was Mike T's downfall. I understand why they did it. The Jets believed they had a team that could win in all in 2011, or 2012. They gambled on Sanchez developing,keeping the team intact, and bringing in what they thought were the few missing pieces for the championship.

They gambled and lost. Tannenbaum lost his job. Oh well

 

Yep.  Idzik's approach in trying to build a contender for the next decade is wise.  The execution, however, has been an abject failure.  Question is whether the removal of Rex, Bradway, and just about everyone else will be enough of a "fix" (assuming Woody selling the team is not an option), or if Idzik needs to go along with them.

[#27TheDominator]

We're not far off on agreement here.  The reason we needed a WR1 and WR2 so badly is failed draft picks.  Tannenbaum whiffed on Hill and Idzik couldn't find an impact WR in a 2014 draft packed to the brim with standout performers. 

 

You can't fix all your problems in free agency, so it's OK that we didn't sign a James Jones-esque guy.  What hurts the most is a draft where we had 12 picks and we pretty much missed on every single one of them.

 

I agree that we are not that far off, but...

 

My point is that we could have fixed our problems in free agency.  Sure we'd still need a QB, but free agency should get you a floor that you can live with.  Starting Nelson/Salas is not a reasonable position for WR2.  They did not need a back and could have easily used the Chris Johnson money on a "James Jones-esque" guy.  They did bring in Jacoby Ford, so it may be more another failure in spotting talent than a failure to allocate resources, but either way, CB and WR were wildly mishandled.

[flgreen]

Yep.  Idzik's approach in trying to build a contender for the next decade is wise.  The execution, however, has been an abject failure.  Question is whether the removal of Rex, Bradway, and just about everyone else will be enough of a "fix" (assuming Woody selling the team is not an option), or if Idzik needs to go along with them.

IMO Idzik has to go if Rex goes. What competent HC candidate will take the job with a lame duck GM. he is really in the crapper with both fans, and the media. That's not going away with out a play off run. They are very far away from a play off run.

Clean house

[Jetsfan80]

IMO Idzik has to go if Rex goes. What competent HC candidate will take the job with a lame duck GM. he is really in the crapper with both fans, and the media. That's not going away with out a play off run. They are very far away from a play off run.

Clean house

 

Not sure what's a more frightening proposition; Idzik trying to hire a new HC or Woody trying to hire a new GM.

[lancemehl]

Don't think CJ was a bad signing, but he was supposed to be a swing back, with 5-10 targets per game on screens.

Really? It doesnt seem like anyone told him. lol Thats a lot of cash for 5-10 targets a game. What about Powell at 400,000?

[lancemehl]

89 turnovers in 4 years as a Jet. Sanchez blew it, good riddance. let the Eagles organization and fans deal with him now.

And four playoff wins and a 37-31 record.....are we really still doing this? Ok I understand. GIve it a couple of weeks and youll see that those turnovers were because his receivers are guys who are mowing lawns right now.

[lancemehl]

Sanchez has looked like himself. He barely had a 50% completion rate.

Put Geno with Kelly and he does at least as good, most likely better.

This has to do with coaching not management

Are u kidding? 59% in two games...not exactly "barely 50" lol Monday he was 20 for 37 over 300 yards, 2 tds no picks. They scored 45 points. He has a 97.7 rating. You really cant spin that. And the MOST important thing---Hes 2-0. Thats 39-31 career, better than ANY Jet QB ever.

Im sad to say also that this argument will only get worse for you. The kid is gonna roll.

Geno would do better than 330 2td 0int ? Really? Really? When did Chip Kelly become so magical? lol smh

[lancemehl]

Idzik has been better than Tannenbaum when it comes to free agency and trades. I'll take guys like Decker, Harvin, Ivory and even guys like Antwan Barnes, CJ and that sh*tty $3M corner over overpays on guys like Bart Scott, Holmes, etc.

But Idzik is most certainly terrible so far on drafting, which is what we could not afford. That's something that requires a dramatic overhaul. If Idzik isn't fired he needs to justify why he's allowed to choose the surrounding members of the front office around him in order to improve.

Better than Tannebum? Wow!

[Jetsfan80]

Better than Tannebum? Wow!

 

Not at all a shocking statement to make, and it doesn't say much.  As soon as the Rex era started Tannenbaum's drafts went down the tubes AND he put us in a crippling cap position.  Idzik being slightly better puts him on the cusp of getting fired as well.

[slats]

And four playoff wins and a 37-31 record.....are we really still doing this? Ok I understand. GIve it a couple of weeks and youll see that those turnovers were because his receivers are guys who are mowing lawns right now.

Even the ones he threw to defensive linemen?

[lancemehl]

If Sanchize becomes a top ten QB, then we will have something to discuss. Until then?

I recall that the reason the Jets went out and got CJ was because of his ability to catch the ball in space and run with it. He was supposed to be LT part 2. Yet the gameplan doesn't seem to incorporate him to his full ability. Go figure.

CB -- you're correct. That was a mess. Why they didn't simply re-sign Cro at bargain basement prices is absolutely beyond me. Revis, I get. Price tag was exhorbitant and he had baggage with this team. Not pursuing Rogers-Cromartie was also penny-wise. With the injury to McDougle and Patterson's mental illness, we were totally f'd.

Harvin was a good signing.

Finally, the biggest issue has always been Geno. If he plays well, we're a lot better team. If he tanks, he takes the team with him. He's been frankly abysmal. We're once again running a crippled offense. Too bad we don't have Stanton , but Vick is showing some life.

Hes already number 4.

Harvin was a panic move.

Nobody told CJ he was gonna be a third down back.

What could Vick playing well possibly do for us?

[slats]

Not at all a shocking statement to make, and it doesn't say much.  As soon as the Rex era started Tannenbaum's drafts went down the tubes AND he put us in a crippling cap position.  Idzik being slightly better puts him on the cusp of getting fired as well.

The year before the Rex era started, he drafted Vernon Gholston #6 overall, and his 2011 draft was one of his best. Of course, he had an advantage during the Mangini years because he always had a higher draft position.

[lancemehl]

Even the ones he threw to defensive linemen?

No not those. I shouldve said "many". Theres no doubt he was mentally destroyed here at the end. The good news is we now have 6 more Eagles games to answer all of the Sanchez questions. lol

[lancemehl]

False. Especially if I am one of your 10. First of all, I don't think Johnson has "lost his speed." If it were that simple they are idiots for signing him. I am pretty sure they work these guys out before they sign. If they didn't, why didn't they? The problem with Johnson is that they already had backs and he has been a bit of a malcontent in the past. He is also not a natural receiver, no matter how many balls he has caught in his career. That can be a problem particularly with our inaccurate QBs.

The most important thing is that the team needed a WR2. Instead, they drafted a TE and signed an RB. Johnson has seemed useless splitting out wide and that money probably would have been better spent on a next tier WR like Andre Roberts or James Jones. The Jets were supposedly interested in Jones and they needed a WR much more than a back. Maybe Idzik thought one of the picks would step up, but that was his major miscalculation anyway. That is not even getting into the (lack of) money allocated at CB.

Bingo. Agreed.

[lancemehl]

Four years ago we lost our second straight AFC title game. Now we're 2-8 talking about cleaning house. I dont see how you can defend that. They f---- blew it! Tannebum blew it. And Idzig his completing the job. We needed a tweak....... Ironically what we needed was a pass rush, now thats all we have.

Holmes, Burress, Sporano, Tebow.......they f---- blew it. Its that simple. lol

[FlagmanL11]

Really? It doesnt seem like anyone told him. lol Thats a lot of cash for 5-10 targets a game. What about Powell at 400,000?

5-10 Targets on screens plus 10-15 rushing attempts... at least that is how it was presented last spring. 

[jack48]

There is no plan, spending $7MM this year on Harvin at 1-6 shows that, where Cro could have been resigned for half that.  Granted he did not have the best of years, but they then signed Patterson who went AWOL.  Woody not taking the call from Revis was a smack in the face to all the PSL holders who invested in this team and of course is a huge asset in the Rex def scheme.  Draft picks that don't play kind of ruins the plan to have 10-20 roster spots at or slightly above league minimum.  Don't think CJ was a bad signing, but he was supposed to be a swing back, with 5-10 targets per game on screens.  Problem was Geno could not execute even that.  Powell will be gone as you said, but I doubt he will be any better than 500 yds per year somewhere else, plus I think he was hurt a bit this year. 

 

Harvin will be a FA at the end of the year, what then?  Wilk needs an extension and Revis will be out there again as a FA. When is the plan come March 10th or thereabouts when the 2015 league season opens?????

They offered Cro less than he made two years ago--which is perfectly fair since he sucked.  He left, tried the market, and wound up taking less  from Zona.  So?

[Villain The Foe]

89 turnovers in 4 years as a Jet. Sanchez blew it, good riddance. let the Eagles organization and fans deal with him now. 

 

they paid CJ?K so they want to use him. understandable. Ivory is the better pounder, everyone can see that. I'd chalk that up to the coaches being stubborn. CJ will play out his contract and be gone. 

 

cornerback though, no excuses, Idzik botched that position so so bad. I'm not gonna throw in the towel on Milliner/Mcdougle yet, but damn hes done a poor job with that position group. 

 

his "plan" seems to be: spend wisely in FA, if at all, and build through the draft. but if he swings and misses again in this springs draft, good chance he's a goner 

wow

[Long Island Leprechaun]

Hes already number 4.

Harvin was a panic move.

Nobody told CJ he was gonna be a third down back.

What could Vick playing well possibly do for us?

 

Mark's #4? Based on what criteria? How many hot dogs he can eat?

 

Harvin was the opposite of a panic move. It was frankly too deliberate and lacking in urgency. It was all about value and not about timing.

 

CJ was expected to come in and catch the ball as well as run. CJ of course wanted to be numero uno. Ivory is better as a lead back.

 

Vick playing well can win games. For most organizations, that's the priority. Show me an organization that looks forward to losing so they can garner draft picks and I'll show you a bunch of guys out of jobs. Unless the "us" you refer to is the fans who are happy to tank a season for a high draft pick. It isn't anybody on the Jets.

[bitonti]

Even the ones he threw to defensive linemen?

 

it takes a special kind of sh*tty to get picked off throwing a screen pass. Geno does it too.