Matt Millen or John Idzik - who's worse?

[vincenzo69]

Millen has the longer resume of ineptitude but I have a feeling that if Idzik is allowed to stick around for another 2-3 years (and he will) Idzik is going to end up making Matt Millen look like Bill Polian.  The Ford Family let Millen do anything they wanted.  Let's just hope Woody isn't as negligent - though I'm sure he will be.

[T0mShane]

c. Hitler

[JetsFanInDenver]

Idzik has two or maybe three very boneheaded picks. But overall when you add all up he has been average so far and by next season we should have a decent handle on how his first draft class is shaping up.

So any final judgement at this point is premature.

Matt Millen on the other hand ........

[vincenzo69]

Two or three boneheaded picks?  It's more like Idzik has had two picks in 2 years that weren't terrible.  1 out of 12 of Idzik's draft picks this year turned out to be an effective player.  1 out of f*cking 12.  Oh and then there's the sitting on $20+ mil in cap room when our secondary couldn't stop Florida State.

[Sperm Edwards]

 

Two or three boneheaded picks?  It's more like Idzik has had two picks in 2 years that weren't terrible.  1 out of 12 of Idzik's draft picks this year turned out to be an effective player.  1 out of f*cking 12.  Oh and then there's the sitting on $20+ mil in cap room when our secondary couldn't stop Florida State.

 

 

The best thing he did in 2014, in hindsight, was sitting on $20M of cap room.

[JetsFanInDenver]

The best thing he did in 2014, in hindsight, was sitting on $20M of cap room.

 

With all that's been said about him this season for being conservative and not signing the like of DRC et al, I won't be surprised if Idzik is still in charge for him to be more aggressive in spending that cash.

[dbatesman]

I like the cut of vincenzo69's jib.

[Fishooked]

Idzik = literally Hitler

 

Seriously though Matt Millen had the longest tenured crappiest run of any GM in recent memory, you'd have to give Idzik more of a sample size. 

[JustInFudge]

Millen

[flgreen]

With all that's been said about him this season for being conservative and not signing the like of DRC et al, I won't be surprised if Idzik is still in charge for him to be more aggressive in spending that cash.

Yeah, maybe he can sign the equivalent of Patterson at QB

[Integrity28]

Idzik = literally Hitler

 

Seriously though Matt Millen had the longest tenured crappiest run of any GM in recent memory, you'd have to give Idzik more of a sample size. 

 

Literally.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Yeah, maybe he can sign the equivalent of Patterson at QB

 

Here is the thing. He has made value moves to address immediate concerns. Now value moves when they pay out they look great but they also have a higher chance of not materializing. But when that happens the team is not setback by a few seasons like the blunders Tanny made in extending Sanchez and Holmes. The team recovers very quickly and is back in position to move ahead.

 

When the moves work out they tremendously help the organization. Whether it's drafting a player or getting a player via trade and signing him for reasonably priced extension like that of Chris Ivory.

 

So it is a very good strategy. It's the execution of this strategy that needs to be sharpened. Specially the draft where some moves have been baffling. Now I would give a GM a couple more seasons to sharpen the execution.

[Sperm Edwards]

With all that's been said about him this season for being conservative and not signing the like of DRC et al, I won't be surprised if Idzik is still in charge for him to be more aggressive in spending that cash.

 

Point is if he wanted this season to be the Geno Smith Tryout Show, so long as he didn't have a Boyd-like camp.  From that POV it's foolish to go nuts on maxing things out, using up the "cheap" year 1 of new contracts on a QB who hadn't yet shown he can be a legit NFL starter. 

 

Of all the things that didn't go right in player acquisition, the one thing that wasn't screwed up was the (financial) ability to more easily right the ship as early as next season, and do so without awarding otherwise-unworthy extensions to lower the present-year cap number.  So if he is to be replaced, the massive cap flexibility makes the job far more attractive than the year Idzik was hired.

[slats]

Idzik = literally Hitler

 

Seriously though Matt Millen had the longest tenured crappiest run of any GM in recent memory, you'd have to give Idzik more of a sample size.

Hopefully that doesn't happen here.

Of course, if it doesn't happen here, it's unlikely to happen anywhere. So I guess we'd never know.

I could live with that.

[slats]

Here is the thing. He has made value moves to address immediate concerns. Now value moves when they pay out they look great but they also have a higher chance of not materializing. But when that happens the team is not setback by a few seasons like the blunders Tanny made in extending Sanchez and Holmes. The team recovers very quickly and is back in position to move ahead.

 

When the moves work out they tremendously help the organization. Whether it's drafting a player or getting a player via trade and signing him for reasonably priced extension like that of Chris Ivory.

 

So it is a very good strategy. It's the execution of this strategy that needs to be sharpened. Specially the draft where some moves have been baffling. Now I would give a GM a couple more seasons to sharpen the execution.

Sharpened? The guy is terrible.

Any slightly more than casual fan could come up with the same strategy. Everyone here says the same thing regarding every free agent, "yeah, I'd like him, as long as he's not too expensive." It's nothing genius. Neither is the philosophy of building thru the draft.

It's like hiring a contractor who's philosophy is to build houses out of bricks, but he doesn't exactly know how to do any masonry work. Nor, unfortunately, do any of the people he's hired. But his philosophy is solid, and I do like brick houses!

[JetsFanInDenver]

Point is if he wanted this season to be the Geno Smith Tryout Show, so long as he didn't have a Boyd-like camp.  From that POV it's foolish to go nuts on maxing things out, using up the "cheap" year 1 of new contracts on a QB who hadn't yet shown he can be a legit NFL starter. 

 

Of all the things that didn't go right in player acquisition, the one thing that wasn't screwed up was the (financial) ability to more easily right the ship as early as next season, and do so without awarding otherwise-unworthy extensions to lower the present-year cap number.  So if he is to be replaced, the massive cap flexibility makes the job far more attractive than the year Idzik was hired.

 

+1.

 

I still hope he is not fired this next season. A GM does deserve atleast 3-4 years before someone passes judgement on their performance.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Sharpened? The guy is terrible.

Any slightly more than casual fan could come up with the same strategy. Everyone here says the same thing regarding every free agent, "yeah, I'd like him, as long as he's not too expensive." It's nothing genius. Neither is the philosophy of building thru the draft.

It's like hiring a contractor who's philosophy is to build houses out of bricks, but he doesn't exactly know how to do any masonry work. Nor, unfortunately, do any of the people he's hired. But his philosophy is solid, and I do like brick houses!

 

Any GM needs to be given 3-4 season before you can pass judgement on his execution.

 

His first year draft so far has netted us three legit starters in SHeldon Richardson, Chris Ivory, Aboushi. Plus Milliner and Bohanon have contributed when on the field. It definitely is a pretty good draft.

 

While there are aspects of this last  draft that I am disappointed with it's still too early to pass judgement on that draft class. I will wait atleast till the end of next season before we can evaluate with any degree of certainty.

[slats]

Any GM needs to be given 3-4 season before you can pass judgement on his execution.

 

His first year draft so far has netted us three legit starters in SHeldon Richardson, Chris Ivory, Aboushi. Plus Milliner and Bohanon have contributed when on the field. It definitely is a pretty good draft.

 

While there are aspects of this last  draft that I am disappointed with it's still too early to pass judgement on that draft class. I will wait atleast till the end of next season before we can evaluate with any degree of certainty.

Could you stick another needle in my eye? I'm really not sure if the first one hurt or not.

In just two years, he drove the team into the ground. The only pick of note is Richardson. The injury risks he took with Milliner and McDougle are blowing up in his face. His handling of the QB position has been terrible; the Jets will be at square one once again at the most important position on the field next year. His draft with Tannenbaum's staff looks a lot better than the draft with his staff - although the second first rounder that first year helps a lot. What would be the opinion of that first draft without Sheldon?

It's really too bad if the guy isn't getting a fair shake. He's done a poor job thru two years, and the team would be much better served moving on sooner rather than later.

[JetsFanInDenver]

His handling of the QB position has been terrible; the Jets will be at square one once again at the most important position on the field next year.

 

How ? In the past two seasons which QB has been drafted that is helping his team become a contender. Or which FA QB we missed out on that would have made us a contender.

 

His draft with Tannenbaum's staff looks a lot better than the draft with his staff

 

The staff change from 1st draft to the 2nd was very minimal. And its too early to judge this past draft.

[#27TheDominator]

Point is if he wanted this season to be the Geno Smith Tryout Show, so long as he didn't have a Boyd-like camp.  From that POV it's foolish to go nuts on maxing things out, using up the "cheap" year 1 of new contracts on a QB who hadn't yet shown he can be a legit NFL starter. 

 

Of all the things that didn't go right in player acquisition, the one thing that wasn't screwed up was the (financial) ability to more easily right the ship as early as next season, and do so without awarding otherwise-unworthy extensions to lower the present-year cap number.  So if he is to be replaced, the massive cap flexibility makes the job far more attractive than the year Idzik was hired.

 

Then explain Harvin.  Either he ****ed up or he pussied out.  Maybe both.  I would respect him more if he stuck to his guns and kept all the room to next season. 

 

 

The staff change from 1st draft to the 2nd was very minimal. And its too early to judge this past draft.

 

Why? Whose fault was that?  

[Sperm Edwards]

Then explain Harvin.  Either he ****ed up or he pussied out.  Maybe both.  I would respect him more if he stuck to his guns and kept all the room to next season. 

 

 

 

I'm speaking to the $20M people were screaming about since March. No free agents were going to turn Smith into a good QB. If anything they may have helped hide some of his ineptitude as a QB and thus he'd have been given an even longer leash.

 

Harvin explanation (or it's me guessing what was going through Idzik's head):

 

On the surface it seems like it makes no sense. If he wasn't so opposed to getting a star WR, run out of town by his prior team before his contract was up, then he could have picked up Jackson and had him all through camp and all season long.  Except this was the great WR draft of 2014 coming up, so he didn't want to lock himself into a long-term deal for big dollars when the team (in Idzik's view) was about to pick up 1 or 2 new receivers (or WR and a TE) in the upcoming draft for a fraction of Jackson's cost (and without his ego/issues/whatever). The guy he - or the team - really liked (allegedly) was Beckham, if rumors are to be believed. At the time Jackson was available, Beckham wasn't expected to go at #12 so we'd have had a good shot at landing him in our original position.  Even if he didn't get his top option, there was thought to be so much depth that we could still get a starter rounds later. 

 

The problem is that he managed to pick the few WRs who - at best - did absolutely nothing as rookies (at worst, they never will).  So now this master plan of Idzik's is in the toilet.  We're 1-7 and now Seattle's demands for Harvin have dropped down to a conditional 4th/6th if we pick up the tab for the rest of the year.  After the year's over, Seattle will surely cut him, but then we'd have to engage in a bidding war (which is not Idzik's forte, to say the least) and potentially cough up even more guaranteed money than this year's $6-7M, depending on the FA WR market.

 

Then throw in there a little bit of Geno sucks and he wants to give him a last shot with a full receiving corps. As it turns out he got 3 possessions, all resulting in interceptions. lol. But that doesn't change what he wanted it to be. And either way, he has his answer on Smith and gets a tryout (albeit a pretty expensive one) with Harvin.

 

One may not like the explanation, but I believe this to be the explanation nonetheless, if one is to fully remove Woody Johnson's desire for headlines from the equation. 

[#27TheDominator]

I'm speaking to the $20M people were screaming about since March. No free agents were going to turn Smith into a good QB. If anything they may have helped hide some of his ineptitude as a QB and thus he'd have been given an even longer leash.

 

Harvin explanation (or it's me guessing what was going through Idzik's head):

 

On the surface it seems like it makes no sense. If he wasn't so opposed to getting a star WR, run out of town by his prior team before his contract was up, then he could have picked up Jackson and had him all through camp and all season long.  Except this was the great WR draft of 2014 coming up, so he didn't want to lock himself into a long-term deal for big dollars when the team (in Idzik's view) was about to pick up 1 or 2 new receivers (or WR and a TE) in the upcoming draft for a fraction of Jackson's cost (and without his ego/issues/whatever). The guy he - or the team - really liked (allegedly) was Beckham, if rumors are to be believed. At the time Jackson was available, Beckham wasn't expected to go at #12 so we'd have had a good shot at landing him in our original position.  Even if he didn't get his top option, there was thought to be so much depth that we could still get a starter rounds later. 

 

The problem is that he managed to pick the few WRs who - at best - did absolutely nothing as rookies (at worst, they never will).  So now this master plan of Idzik's is in the toilet.  We're 1-7 and now Seattle's demands for Harvin have dropped down to a conditional 4th/6th if we pick up the tab for the rest of the year.  After the year's over, Seattle will surely cut him, but then we'd have to engage in a bidding war (which is not Idzik's forte, to say the least) and potentially cough up even more guaranteed money than this year's $6-7M, depending on the FA WR market.

 

Then throw in there a little bit of Geno sucks and he wants to give him a last shot with a full receiving corps. As it turns out he got 3 possessions, all resulting in interceptions. lol. But that doesn't change what he wanted it to be. And either way, he has his answer on Smith and gets a tryout (albeit a pretty expensive one) with Harvin.

 

One may not like the explanation, but I believe this to be the explanation nonetheless, if one is to fully remove Woody Johnson's desire for headlines from the equation. 

 

 

That sounds like the explanation to me and if it is, then either he's a puss or we are keeping Harvin next year. 

[JetsFanInDenver]

Then explain Harvin.  Either he ****ed up or he pussied out.  Maybe both.  I would respect him more if he stuck to his guns and kept all the room to next season. 

 

 

 

The answer is both. I am not sure if the directive for doing something came from ownership. But whether it was media pressure or ownership he did whimp out on that one. But i am not complaining. I hope we can keep Harvin for sometime at bargain basement rates.

 

 

 

Why? Whose fault was that?

 

My point was there was hardly any change between 1st and 2nd rounds so i cannot blame FO personnel for the presently awful looking 2nd draft. For me i would wait another season before I pass judgement on the 2nd draft.

[#27TheDominator]

My point was there was hardly any change between 1st and 2nd rounds so i cannot blame FO personnel for the presently awful looking 2nd draft. For me i would wait another season before I pass judgement on the 2nd draft.

 

Right, but then what Slats says still stands.  People cut him some slack in 2013 because he didn't have his staff in place.  With all year to assemble a staff he loses a couple of guys, some left, they weren't even dumped and brings Graves aboard.  Where are his trusted scouts?  It seemed like business as usual.  

[JetsFanInDenver]

Right, but then what Slats says still stands.  People cut him some slack in 2013 because he didn't have his staff in place.  With all year to assemble a staff he loses a couple of guys, some left, they weren't even dumped and brings Graves aboard.  Where are his trusted scouts?  It seemed like business as usual.  

 

That's beside the point. For me its too early to judge how good the 2014 draft was in the first place.

[afosomf]

Between Millen and Idzik, like choosing syphilis or Gonoreah

[vincenzo69]

Between Millen and Idzik, like choosing syphilis or Gonoreah

But at least catching syphilis or Gonorhea can be fun.  Watching a John Idzik roster is about as fun as getting shot.

[vincenzo69]

That's beside the point. For me its too early to judge how good the 2014 draft was in the first place.

Really?  The 4th round pick and 6th round picks aren't even on the roster.  The 1st round pick is a slow JAG Safety that makes Eric Smith look fast.  The 3rd round CB already has a torn ACL and he plays a speed position.  The only effective player out of the entire draft we've gotten so far is Amaro.  The 2014 draft makes the 2010 draft look successful.

 

Calvin Pryor is such an abomination.  We passed up Cooks and Kelvin Benjamin for him.  Clinton-Dix was the pick if Idzik wanted a Safety most people with even casual draft knowledge knew that Clinton-Dix was the better Safety.  Even Johnny Football would have made more sense.

[Jack Straw]

The fact that Sperm had to write an essay (a well-worded one at that) trying to make sense of the Idzik trade is proof in and of itself that the trade made absolutely no sense then, and less sense now.

 

In the future, Idzik should use this as a litmus test prior to making deals; If he can't explain the rationale behind the trade/signing/transaction in one sentence, then it probably doesn't make sense and he shouldn't do it.

 

 

[JetsFanInDenver]

Really?  The 4th round pick and 6th round picks aren't even on the roster.  The 1st round pick is a slow JAG Safety that makes Eric Smith look fast.  The 3rd round CB already has a torn ACL and he plays a speed position.  The only effective player out of the entire draft we've gotten so far is Amaro.  The 2014 draft makes the 2010 draft look successful.

 

Calvin Pryor is such an abomination.  We passed up Cooks and Kelvin Benjamin for him.  Clinton-Dix was the pick if Idzik wanted a Safety most people with even casual draft knowledge knew that Clinton-Dix was the better Safety.  Even Johnny Football would have made more sense.

 

Hindsight is 20/20. At that point of time a lot of people had Pryor graded ahead of Haha. Not many people thought that highly of Benjamin. That why he lasted till the 27 th pick. After the JETS a multitude of teams passed over Benjamin.

 

Pryor may appear slow because he is an instinctive player that maybe thinking too much. But with more experience and reps I expect to see a different player as the season goes on and he benefits from a 2nd training camp. We will see if it materializes.

 

Evans and Enunwa may still turn out to be very good to great players.

 

I am not saying so far 2014 draft looks stellar. I have my issues with it as well. But I will repeat still too early to pass judgement.

[vincenzo69]

Hindsight is 20/20. At that point of time a lot of people had Pryor graded ahead of Haha. Not many people thought that highly of Benjamin. That why he lasted till the 27 th pick. After the JETS a multitude of teams passed over Benjamin.

 

Pryor may appear slow because he is an instinctive player that maybe thinking too much. But with more experience and reps I expect to see a different player as the season goes on and he benefits from a 2nd training camp. We will see if it materializes.

 

Evans and Enunwa may still turn out to be very good to great players.

 

I am not saying so far 2014 draft looks stellar. I have my issues with it as well. But I will repeat still too early to pass judgement.

Enough with this garbage "hindsight is 20/20".  So sick of it.  Just because ignorant Jets fans liked the Vick and D'Mitri Patterson signings and drafting Pryor over Clinton-Dix, Cooks and Kelvin Benjamin rationalizes nothing.  Pryor sucks.  He's not as bad as Kyle Wilson or Vernon Gholston.  The problem is he's not good either and we passed up so very good players at positions of need for him.

 

Pryor is a glorified Eric Smith.  He's average at best at covering people and can be burned pretty easily.  You can't really improve on speed he is what he is unless he takes steroids I suppose.  Pryor just hits hard - that's pretty much all he does.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Enough with this garbage "hindsight is 20/20".  So sick of it.  Just because ignorant Jets fans liked the Vick and D'Mitri Patterson signings and drafting Pryor over Clinton-Dix, Cooks and Kelvin Benjamin rationalizes nothing.  Pryor sucks.  He's not as bad as Kyle Wilson or Vernon Gholston.  The problem is he's not good either and we passed up so very good players at positions of need for him.

 

Pryor is a glorified Eric Smith.  He's average at best at covering people and can be burned pretty easily.  You can't really improve on speed he is what he is unless he takes steroids I suppose.  Pryor just hits hard - that's pretty much all he does.

 

Hindsight is overrated. Crystal ball's very useful.

[slats]

Detroit was wise to hold onto Matt Millen beyond two years.

[BroadwayJoe12]

I wonder what a figurative Hitler would be like.

[T0mShane]

The fact that Sperm had to write an essay (a well-worded one at that) trying to make sense of the Idzik trade is proof in and of itself that the trade made absolutely no sense then, and less sense now.

Sperm issues essays ordering coffee at the Dunkin Donuts drive-through.