jgb Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 watch this video from inside jaguars locker room after they knocked off giants. http://now.nfl.com/play/9e6c3b27-c42d-4ed1-914e-430cf9fb10ed?id=9e6c3b27-c42d-4ed1-914e-430cf9fb10ed in a lost season the opportunity to teach a team to fight through adversity is more valuable than a couple draft spots imho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 watch this video from inside jaguars locker room after they knocked off giants. http://now.nfl.com/play/9e6c3b27-c42d-4ed1-914e-430cf9fb10ed?id=9e6c3b27-c42d-4ed1-914e-430cf9fb10ed in a lost season the opportunity to teach a team to fight through adversity is more valuable than a couple draft spots imho yeah. FO types may think about it, or hope for it, by on the level of the CS and the players, no way. Their jobs, and there pride is at stake. What the FO can do to tank a season is, you know, put an inferior QB out there, when the best chance of winning is playing a popular vet. It disheartens the team, and they say things like, I support him because I have no choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 watch this video from inside jaguars locker room after they knocked off giants. http://now.nfl.com/play/9e6c3b27-c42d-4ed1-914e-430cf9fb10ed?id=9e6c3b27-c42d-4ed1-914e-430cf9fb10ed in a lost season the opportunity to teach a team to fight through adversity is more valuable than a couple draft spots imho JAX has what they consider their QB of the future so everything they do this season is building towards that future. Take a look at 2011 Indianapolis when they sucked for luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 yeah. FO types may think about it, or hope for it, by on the level of the CS and the players, no way. Their jobs, and there pride is at stake. What the FO can do to tank a season is, you know, put an inferior QB out there, when the best chance of winning is playing a popular vet. It disheartens the team, and they say things like, I support him because I have no choice JAX has what they consider their QB of the future so everything they do this season is building towards that future. Take a look at 2011 Indianapolis when they sucked for luck. the HC and GM both got canned in Indy for sucking--if such a thing was done on purpose, who instructed them to do it? The owner, who then fired him for doing it? The GM, who was then fired by the owner for doing it? Indy is a perfect example of why team don't suck on purpose--even if it's "good" to do, you still pay with your job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 watch this video from inside jaguars locker room after they knocked off giants. http://now.nfl.com/play/9e6c3b27-c42d-4ed1-914e-430cf9fb10ed?id=9e6c3b27-c42d-4ed1-914e-430cf9fb10ed in a lost season the opportunity to teach a team to fight through adversity is more valuable than a couple draft spots imho I said this in another thread and got ridiculed by the ilk for it. Players need to learn how to win. Especially young teams, like the Jags and the Jets. The idea of tanking a season is ridiculous fan talk that doesnt actually happen. These guys go through hell to play in the NFL. Some of these guys have been fighting their whole life to get a roster spot, finally get their chance and know damn well, its now or never. You think they're going out their playing "soft" and "tanking" for the betterment of a team they might not even play for next season? No. First off, its the NFL. If you go soft, you get hurt. If you get beat, its on tape for ever. These guys have their careers, their next contract, their reputation, along with just a roster spot to think about. They didnt spend an entire offseason preparing, practicing every week, endless meetings, endless conditioning just to go out and tank on Sunday. I could see a GM trying to by benching, trading, cutting their best players...and just playing scrubs but still. Those scrubs are battling for a roster spot or to be seen and make a name. They're not out their "tanking". You really think you can sell a team on tanking for the possibility of high draft pick who may or may not workout? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 JAX has what they consider their QB of the future so everything they do this season is building towards that future. Take a look at 2011 Indianapolis when they sucked for luck. Indy was decimated by injuries and never cared about backing up Peyton with talent and paid for it when they had to start Curtis Painter. No Head Coach, player or GM wants a 1 win season on their record. And like JGB pointed out, people lost their job for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 I said this in another thread and got ridiculed by the ilk for it. Players need to learn how to win. Especially young teams, like the Jags and the Jets. The idea of tanking a season is ridiculous fan talk that doesnt actually happen. These guys go through hell to play in the NFL. Some of these guys have been fighting their whole life to get a roster spot, finally get their chance and know damn well, its now or never. You think they're going out their playing "soft" and "tanking" for the betterment of a team they might not even play for next season? No. First off, its the NFL. If you got soft, you get hurt. If you get beat, its on tape for ever. These guys have their careers, their next contract, their reputation, along with just a roster spot to think about. They didnt spend an entire offseason preparing, practicing every week, endless meetings, endless conditioning just to go out and tank on Sunday. I could see a GM trying to by benching, trading, cutting their best players...and just playing scrubs but still. Those scrubs are battling for a roster spot They're not out their "tanking". You really think you can sell a team on tanking for the possibility of high draft pick who may or may not workout? No. closest thing you can call "tanking" is when HCs call it fast and loss sometimes after a season is done. do a surprise on-sides kick, go for it on 4th down more often, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Indy was decimated by injuries and never cared about backing up Peyton with talent and paid for it when they had to start Curtis Painter. No Head Coach, player or GM wants a 1 win season on their record. And like JGB pointed out, people lost their job for it. The players and coaches will never 'tank' a season or a game; however, at this point in a lost season it's time to get some of the younger players some experience and start the evaluation process for 2015. If they win, great. if not, who cares? The Jets should be giving time to IK Ekmapali, Simms, Enunwa, and any other young player they want to evaluate. These guys aren't even active on game day. Are they really that bad? or, is there just a veteran in front of them that is taking their reps? the season is lost, it's time to look to the future. that means the best 22 may not be on the field which is really what tanking is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 The players and coaches will never 'tank' a season or a game; however, at this point in a lost season it's time to get some of the younger players some experience and start the evaluation process for 2015. If they win, great. if not, who cares? The Jets should be giving time to IK Ekmapali, Simms, Enunwa, and any other young player they want to evaluate. These guys aren't even active on game day. Are they really that bad? or, is there just a veteran in front of them that is taking their reps? the season is lost, it's time to look to the future. that means the best 22 may not be on the field which is really what tanking is. agree with you but that will only happen when the HC has job security. rex wants as few losses on his resume as possible. by the way... if rex wins out the year he is over .500 as an HC by 1 game. believe me he wants that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 agree with you but that will only happen when the HC has job security. rex wants as few losses on his resume as possible. by the way... if rex wins out the year he is over .500 as an HC by 1 game. believe me he wants that. Rex is toeing the company line and positioning himself as a good company man for his next gig. You can tell that the blame game has already started (again btw) and Rex is in full CYA mode. I don't think the record changes anything at this point but the franchise benefits from both playing young guys and losing. Call it want you want but that should be the mindset inside Jets HQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 How about the premise where a head coach is TOLD who his starting QB will be on an upcoming MNF game against the team's most hated rival who are vying for a playoff slot? Oh I know it's a far-fetched unimaginable scenario to actually think that a team would bench a veteran QB who had been playing pretty good and replace him with the player that was benched that he replaced...now THAT would never happen....unless you are the 2014 New York Jets and Mister INT himself; Geno Smith is starting tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
predator_05 Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Lmao, it's like watching a younger, taller, balder version of Pete carroll. Rah rah college football enthusiasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 Rex is toeing the company line and positioning himself as a good company man for his next gig. You can tell that the blame game has already started (again btw) and Rex is in full CYA mode. I don't think the record changes anything at this point but the franchise benefits from both playing young guys and losing. Call it want you want but that should be the mindset inside Jets HQ. yeah it should be. problem is the GM is on the hot seat too and is also in "get as many wins as possible" mode. that's one of reasons teams fire HCs mid-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 How about the premise where a head coach is TOLD who his starting QB will be on an upcoming MNF game against the team's most hated rival who are vying for a playoff slot? Oh I know it's a far-fetched unimaginable scenario to actually think that a team would bench a veteran QB who had been playing pretty good and replace him with the player that was benched that he replaced...now THAT would never happen....unless you are the 2014 New York Jets and Mister INT himself; Geno Smith is starting tonight. idzik isn't fit to judge a junior high talent show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 JAX has what they consider their QB of the future so everything they do this season is building towards that future. Take a look at 2011 Indianapolis when they sucked for luck. You think the Colts tanked on purpose? Then please explain to me why they fired both their GM and HC after the season in which they were allegedly tanking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sourceworx Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 The players and coaches will never 'tank' a season or a game; however, at this point in a lost season it's time to get some of the younger players some experience and start the evaluation process for 2015. If they win, great. if not, who cares? The Jets should be giving time to IK Ekmapali, Simms, Enunwa, and any other young player they want to evaluate. These guys aren't even active on game day. Are they really that bad? or, is there just a veteran in front of them that is taking their reps? the season is lost, it's time to look to the future. that means the best 22 may not be on the field which is really what tanking is. I completely agree with this. I think the fact that Willie Colon and Calvin Pace are still on the field is telling. If Idzik felt secure in his job, he'd have canned Rex, and forced the interim coach to play the young guys. That's how you salvage what's left of a lost season. Instead, Rex is still here, and older players who will gone next year are taking valuable reps away from the young pups. Idzik hasn't stepped in, which makes me think he's worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 The players and coaches will never 'tank' a season or a game; however, at this point in a lost season it's time to get some of the younger players some experience and start the evaluation process for 2015. If they win, great. if not, who cares? The Jets should be giving time to IK Ekmapali, Simms, Enunwa, and any other young player they want to evaluate. These guys aren't even active on game day. Are they really that bad? or, is there just a veteran in front of them that is taking their reps? the season is lost, it's time to look to the future. that means the best 22 may not be on the field which is really what tanking is. YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 the HC and GM both got canned in Indy for sucking--if such a thing was done on purpose, who instructed them to do it? The owner, who then fired him for doing it? The GM, who was then fired by the owner for doing it? Indy is a perfect example of why team don't suck on purpose--even if it's "good" to do, you still pay with your job. I thought that was pretty obvious. On paper it does the team no good to win. But the coach in particular, who's getting fired, wants his career record in his prior stop to be better rather than worse. Otherwise the only benefit he can point to is to say, "See? Even when I knew I was getting canned I still did the franchise a (long-term) solid by tanking for better draft picks in a no-win situation." I suppose a new GM would appreciate that, in some fantasy scenario that doesn't exist. Seems it will do said coach (or GM) more to have a better overall record heading into interview season. Makes me think that Idzik is returning. Otherwise why would he want the team to lose more? Assuming he shares the belief that the team is more likely to win games with Vick in the final month, one could argue he just wants to give his draft pick 5 more starts. But there's nothing that will happen over the final month that will - or that should - alter the offseason goal of acquiring a new QB. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit, but I think Idzik realizes this by now. If they score 40 ppg the rest of the way behind a great passing attack with Geno still in there (lol) he still needs to get the best QB he can get his hands on this offseason. If Idzik really thought he was getting fired, he'd want the team to win more games for any future potential GM job (that will never materialize ever if he's fired after these 2 seasons here). Ryan can't be excited to have Geno in there, so it's believable that the call came from above I suppose. (It's also believable that the order was not given, and Ryan wants to take Idzik down with him and believes starting Geno is the best way to have that happen). The former seems more likely, so I think Idzik wants the better draft picks and therefore gave the order. No way of knowing for certain either way. But that's my guess as of today, having heard or read none of the rumors so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Ryan can't be excited to have Geno in there, so it's believable that the call came from above I suppose. (It's also believable that the order was not given, and Ryan wants to take Idzik down with him and believes starting Geno is the best way to have that happen). The former seems more likely, so I think Idzik wants the better draft picks and therefore gave the order. No way of knowing for certain either way. But that's my guess as of today, having heard or read none of the rumors so far. Idzik also seeing if Geno can serve as a backup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Idzik also seeing if Geno can serve as a backup Could be, I suppose, but that's getting decided in camp next summer, not December of the prior year. If we take a QB high, the #2 will be (or should be) a so-so veteran should the rookie show he's ready. If some good veteran QB who's expected to start for the next 2-3 years minimum materializes, and for some inexplicable reason he chooses the Jets, then his backup should be a rookie (or at best a rookie battles it out with Geno). But Geno's not solidifying even the #2 job no matter what happens the last 5 games. Or he shouldn't, anyway. We already went down that road after Dec 2013; fool me once & all that. Really, if one is thinking upside of playing him, IMO it's to entice another team into giving up a better low-round pick for him in trade. Someone who liked him coming out of school and think his failures are the fault of his surroundings and that he might be salvageable as a starter. Skeletor used to pick up other teams' fairly recent high pick busts on the cheap, thinking his genius could make them the players they were thought to be when scouted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 This isnt the California Penal League Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Could be, I suppose, but that's getting decided in camp next summer, not December of the prior year. If we take a QB high, the #2 will be (or should be) a so-so veteran should the rookie show he's ready. If some good veteran QB who's expected to start for the next 2-3 years minimum materializes, and for some inexplicable reason he chooses the Jets, then his backup should be a rookie (or at best a rookie battles it out with Geno). But Geno's not solidifying even the #2 job no matter what happens the last 5 games. Or he shouldn't, anyway. We already went down that road after Dec 2013; fool me once & all that. Really, if one is thinking upside of playing him, IMO it's to entice another team into giving up a better low-round pick for him in trade. Someone who liked him coming out of school and think his failures are the fault of his surroundings and that he might be salvageable as a starter. Skeletor used to pick up other teams' fairly recent high pick busts on the cheap, thinking his genius could make them the players they were thought to be when scouted. Maybe Geno is just better in the cold lol But yeah, overall I agree. This is his last chance to really prove himself. Maybe he does by playing okay but ultimately losing out and giving us a nice 5th round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Maybe Geno is just better in the cold lol But yeah, overall I agree. This is his last chance to really prove himself. Maybe he does by playing okay but ultimately losing out and giving us a nice 5th round pick. I think even if he proves himself it gets him nothing. He's not getting handed a starting job or a backup job in 2015. Maybe it'll cause the Jets to not cut him in March, but if he's terrible he still won't get the #2 QB job here and might not even get the #3 job depending on who else we pick up through the draft and FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBallhawk Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Anybody that actually thinks teams/players "give up" just so they can get a high draft choice must be absolutely stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Mostro Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Geno will be fitted for a UPS uni right after the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 I think even if he proves himself it gets him nothing. He's not getting handed a starting job or a backup job in 2015. Maybe it'll cause the Jets to not cut him in March, but if he's terrible he still won't get the #2 QB job here and might not even get the #3 job depending on who else we pick up through the draft and FA. I hope you're right and have two great options at QB next season. Niether of the two being Geno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 watch this video from inside jaguars locker room after they knocked off giants. http://now.nfl.com/play/9e6c3b27-c42d-4ed1-914e-430cf9fb10ed?id=9e6c3b27-c42d-4ed1-914e-430cf9fb10ed in a lost season the opportunity to teach a team to fight through adversity is more valuable than a couple draft spots imho When I was a little kid I rooted for draft position...hell, maybe even in to young adulthood...once I learned what an absolute crapshoot the draft was, I'll never be happy about a loss again. Not to say the draft spot isn't the silver lining, but if it's my team I want them to win. Especially against the fins. I can't imagine sitting there and cheering for the Dolphins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 closest thing you can call "tanking" is when HCs call it fast and loss sometimes after a season is done. do a surprise on-sides kick, go for it on 4th down more often, etc. I always view that as more a desperation, what do we have to lose type of scenario...but I could see it. The players and coaches will never 'tank' a season or a game; however, at this point in a lost season it's time to get some of the younger players some experience and start the evaluation process for 2015. If they win, great. if not, who cares? The Jets should be giving time to IK Ekmapali, Simms, Enunwa, and any other young player they want to evaluate. These guys aren't even active on game day. Are they really that bad? or, is there just a veteran in front of them that is taking their reps? the season is lost, it's time to look to the future. that means the best 22 may not be on the field which is really what tanking is. I agree with the premise,. play the kids, see what they got. However, there is more incentive for them to see what a guy like Harvin and TJ Graham can do as they're assessing the roster for next season. They've clearly got a ton more potential than Enunwa and will get much more out of them getting snaps than someone who has a like 5% of making it in the NFL. OL is risky. You'd love to see what Dozier can do ahead of Colon or Giacomini but if he's not ready, you could be putting players at risk. Simms? I've seen what he's got and he's not an NFL QB. IK and Reilly are the guys you'd like to see get more snaps. Pace is shot and Harris should be cut next season. So getting creative with the LB'ers, especially with assuming Coples will be moving into Mo Wilk's spot till he's healthy...its a perfect time to give them some run. They've been doing it with the secondary, more out of necessity but at least they're giving some good playing time to those guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 When I was a little kid I rooted for draft position...hell, maybe even in to young adulthood...once I learned what an absolute crapshoot the draft was, I'll never be happy about a loss again. Not to say the draft spot isn't the silver lining, but if it's my team I want them to win. Especially against the fins. I can't imagine sitting there and cheering for the Dolphins. The Jets have a chance to ruin their season for the second season in a row. I'm rooting for that. I hate the ******* Dolphags with all my heart and soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Isn't the real question, as it has been suggested on this board, "Do NFL teams "punt" seasons, or undermine their own Head Coaches"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 there's no point rooting for draft position when there's no faith in the team to make a good pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 I hope you're right and have two great options at QB next season. Niether of the two being Geno. you eliminated that possibility by the inclusion of the adjective "great" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 there's no point rooting for draft position when there's no faith in the team to make a good pick ...or for the coaches to properly develop them once they get here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallinPB Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Good to tank in the NBA, not the NFL. The difference of a couple picks in the NBA talent wise is enormous while you may be able to get the same caliber player in the NFL with the 4th pick and the 14th pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Jax just drafted a QB. Being in a position to evaluate the QBs isn't a concern for them. When you don't have a quarterback, that's all that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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