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Brandon Scherff


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so you want to start a rookie again next year?

 

Ignoring the problem doesnt make it go away. 

 

I don't know about starting a rookie game 1 but it would be nice to have a real competition.

 

side note If Geno Smith is the starting QB for the Jets in 2015, with no viable alternative, im taking the directv satellite and chucking it off the roof myself. 

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Ignoring the problem doesnt make it go away. 

 

I don't know about starting a rookie game 1 but it would be nice to have a real competition.

 

side note If Geno Smith is the starting QB for the Jets in 2015, with no viable alternative, im taking the directv satellite and chucking it off the roof myself. 

 

No one wants to believe it....but Geno didnt suck in December.

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I am old. I hope the new GM doesn't draft a guard at #6 (and the last time a guard went that high, I was very, very young) just because the Jets have employed crappy GMs this millennium. Drafting a guard that high is dumb.

 

 

Agreed.  A lot of good lineman come out of the draft after Round One.  Unless a guy is Anthony Munoz or something similar, you do not grab him in the top 10.

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No one wants to believe it....but Geno didnt suck in December.

Miami gave up.

 

but with that said I do think Geno is improved.  

 

I don't see him winning or anyone trusting him to win the superbowl tho and thats the whole point.

 

We have been there many times before with QB who were good enough to compete but not win it all.  O'Brian being the standard there.

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Miami gave up.

 

but with that said I do think Geno is improved.  

 

I don't see him winning or anyone trusting him to win the superbowl tho and thats the whole point.

 

We have been there many times before with QB who were good enough to compete but not win it all.  O'Brian being the standard there.

 

I think he only threw one pick over his last 6 games...

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If we go quarterback that's one thing. Outside of that you can argue about the relative short-term needs but the goal is to get a ten-year player in the first round.

ignoring the possibility of a guy not being there at 6 or a trade, who do you take right now?

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With the caveat that I don't know sh*t right now? I like Amari Cooper. You can generally tell who the bankable receivers are.

of course and I agree... Hope the Miami win doesn't cost us..

don't really like either of the QB's

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of course and I agree... Hope the Miami win doesn't cost us..

don't really like either of the QB's

Not really even thinking about quarterback. I look at 6 as being right about the middle of the range where it's even possible to find one. It's above everybody's pay grade honestly.

There's Cooper. If you expect Scherff to start at guard right away and take over at tackle next year that's fine. There are other good tackles too, don't know if any of them is potentially a top five prospect. Corner? There's the Michigan State guy but his numbers aren't close to what Dennard's were, and Dennard wasn't as good a prospect as Milliner was. I don't even know who else is supposed to be good. The combine numbers are really helpful for projecting the defensive front seven players and until then I know what you know there.

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Not really even thinking about quarterback. I look at 6 as being right about the middle of the range where it's even possible to find one. It's above everybody's pay grade honestly.

There's Cooper. If you expect Scherff to start at guard right away and take over at tackle next year that's fine. There are other good tackles too, don't know if any of them is potentially a top five prospect. Corner? There's the Michigan State guy but his numbers aren't close to what Dennard's were, and Dennard wasn't as good a prospect as Milliner was. I don't even know who else is supposed to be good. The combine numbers are really helpful for projecting the defensive front seven players and until then I know what you know there.

I agree completely with the positional value argument , and don't know enough to know if scherff projects to LT, but the guy is impressive in just about every way...

Cooper just seems to have a high floor, and another swing and miss early will be crippling

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Iupoti is a top five guard and a free agent. How about we just do that instead of drafting someone and hoping they develop into Iupoti?

If Scherff projects as a franchise tackle, then draft him. But, he seems to project as a tweener. We have the choice of any draft eligible college player except for five. Surely, we can find one that has a f*cking definitive position.

I agree if that's true of him. I'm only going by what's here, though, rather than games I haven't watched.

If he is a true stud LT prospect I can see the pick, and then trade Ferguson to the highest bidder, even if it's only a 7th rounder due to his 2015+ numbers. Anything is better than nothing. Otherwise, let some other bad NFL team use premiere picks on non-premiere positions we can easily fill in FA and we take a player that no team would ever allow to reach FA.

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That is some Vlad Ducasse talk right there.

The last time we had a dominant LG, Pete Kendall, we were good.

Our RBs ran better, our WRs caught more passes, our QB stayed up-right longer.

Since then, trying to scrape by with Adrian Clarke, or the easy-to-find late round heroes that you speak of, or the second-rate second-round (discount, bargain OG) pick...The team can improve it's offensive play by upgrading the OL and setting it up for continued success.

IF you can get that handled in this free agency for $6M a pop, that's great. The job is yours. If Brick were to go down, what's the contingency plan? Ijalana? Move Breno over? What happens if Mangold gets injured again? The two new guys get to receive blocking assignments from Dalton Freeman?

Scherff is a LT, who at the very worst becomes a pro-bowl OG/RT

If he's a pure, true LT then that's one thing. Left tackles are much, much more valuable than guards; if not because of reality onto the field, then because they're more expensive to sign and because the top draft-day LT prospects don't last as long into their drafts as do the top guards.

If he projects to guard it is foolishness to take him at #6 and use a bust like Ducasse as justification. You ignored the whole post you quoted. You really podon't notice that teams that draft top guards let them hit free agency all the time? If guard was a premiere position like QB, WR, etc then this would be a rarity rather than commonplace. Also that none of the game's top guards were taken with top 10 picks and would defy you to find an era where this wasn't the norm. It is poor use of a far more valuable resource.

More than 90% of the game's top guards were found in either the last few picks of round 1 or outside round 1 outright. And those are just the draft day numbers, which ignores that most of these players can be acquired in free agency or by trading a low draft pick away.

When those types of trends stare you in the face, the last thing a multi-holed franchise does is use the 6th overall pick on a guard -- a position where the #6 pick is NEVER required to fill.

It's almost as though the "for" opinion is if one doesn't advocate taking a guard at #6 then it's tantamount to saying the position is totally unimportant and an afterthought.

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If he's a pure, true LT then that's one thing. Left tackles are much, much more valuable than guards; if not because of reality onto the field, then because they're more expensive to sign and because the top draft-day LT prospects don't last as long into their drafts as do the top guards.

If he projects to guard it is foolishness to take him at #6 and use a bust like Ducasse as justification. You ignored the whole post you quoted. You really podon't notice that teams that draft top guards let them hit free agency all the time? If guard was a premiere position like QB, WR, etc then this would be a rarity rather than commonplace. Also that none of the game's top guards were taken with top 10 picks and would defy you to find an era where this wasn't the norm. It is poor use of a far more valuable resource.

More than 90% of the game's top guards were found in either the last few picks of round 1 or outside round 1 outright. And those are just the draft day numbers, which ignores that most of these players can be acquired in free agency or by trading a low draft pick away.

When those types of trends stare you in the face, the last thing a multi-holed franchise does is use the 6th overall pick on a guard -- a position where the #6 pick is NEVER required to fill.

It's almost as though the "for" opinion is if one doesn't advocate taking a guard at #6 then it's tantamount to saying the position is totally unimportant and an afterthought.

 

I understand the crux of this argument.  If he's a Guard, #6 is too high.  If he's a LT, #6 is fine.

So let me fix this up; he's a LT.  

 

He's been a LT for the last three years, and was considered a first round OT prospect LAST year before he decided to return to school for his senior year.  

All he did since then was win the Outland Trophy (for college's best interior lineman).  

 

The driving force behind supporting him is the idea that if he didn't work out at LT, we still have a potentially dominant player for the next ten years.  It would be disappointing to have spent such a high draft pick on an interior player, or a RT even.  But he wouldn't just crap out.  If we swing for the fences (so to speak) on a QB, WR, or DE/OLB  and they don't pan out there is no backup plan.  They would just "develop" on the bench.  Scherff gets to develop on the field, making immediate contributions.  

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That's oldhead talk.  since 2000 the Jets have had 5 picks in the top ten.  Dwayne Robertson, Vernon Gholston, Mark Sanchez and Dee Milliner.  The only other top ten pick we had was D'Brickashaw Ferguson.  He's also the only one to ever make a probowl.  If Scherff can play OT at a high level for many years, he's an awesome pick.  If he can't cut it at OT and moves inside to Guard and plays at a high level there for many years, he still a great pick.  Better than Robertson, Gholston Sanchez and Milliner anyway.  Its a pick with little gamble and no real downside.  For a team that has QB issues and a crap offense, shoring up a shaky Oline should be the first priority.

Agreed.   Just take a look at Seattle's stats this year.  1st in rush offense, 27th in pass offense.  That's what a great OL can do for you.  Make the other team commit more people to the run, that frees up receivers and limits the risk of an interception.  Marshawn was not great until he got to Seattle, now look at him.  Also remember those Shanahan Denver teams, it didn't matter who you put behind that line they were going to lead the league in rushing.

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Agreed.   Just take a look at Seattle's stats this year.  1st in rush offense, 27th in pass offense.  That's what a great OL can do for you.  Make the other team commit more people to the run, that frees up receivers and limits the risk of an interception.  Marshawn was not great until he got to Seattle, now look at him.  Also remember those Shanahan Denver teams, it didn't matter who you put behind that line they were going to lead the league in rushing. 

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I am old. I hope the new GM doesn't draft a guard at #6 (and the last time a guard went that high, I was very, very young) just because the Jets have employed crappy GMs this millennium. Drafting a guard that high is dumb.

I'm old too, but I think this is the best way for us to field a competitive team again.   Great OLs are the hallmark of championship teams.  If you can run and protect your QB your chance for success go up dramatically no matter who you play against.  Football is still won in the trenches particularly when you get into the playoffs.  Since out DL is stacked, let's plug the holes with talent at OL, not just JAGs.

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I am a big OL fan. But there's several drawbacks to the Scherff at 6 idea

 

 Zack Martin to Scherff is a comparison that makes sense. He will start right away, be a stud, and is a safe pick. Like Martin, Scherff may or may not grade out as a top 5 pick in terms of physical upside.  Unlike Martin, Scherff appears to be big timing the Senior Bowl. I think that's  a mistake. The ghost of Robert Gallery haunts the Iowa OL. Bulaga has been ok at RT (hurt a bunch) but the stat for Scherff that will determine his value is going to be arm length.

 

But the only reason it makes a damn bit of diff in Dallas is because of Tony Romo. 

 

the Jets worst need, by far, is QB. Adding another stud, even if he's a PRO Bowl LT (idealistic best case) doesn't change their fate on game day.  For example the Browns have Joe Thomas blocking for Hoyer/Manziel that's not a problem that needs more OL to fix. MORE and Better Offensive line doesn't fix the Jets. 

 

QB should be the target, even if there isn't supposedly a perfect prospect available. If it's Petty or some other "reach" so be it. I wish the Jets had "reached" on Bridgewater, Carr, Jimmy G last year. Give the team a chance.  They need another live body at the position. Winston would be a huge luxury i don't think he makes it to 6 and could just play baseball. 

 

Other needs: CB is a tire fire. WR will be a problem after they cut Harvin. even tho IK and his 12 snaps a game are ok, OLB is not ideal having Pace/Babin getting all those snaps.

 

for me, best "Reach" QB, Amari Cooper, Randy Gregory or Shane Ray pick might make more sense than a Scherff pick.

 

 OL is like 10th on the list of needs. They need to replace Colon mostly and a Winters vs Dozier training camp battle could be interesting. at least to me. 

 

and finally I did not float the Mangold to LG idea but it is somewhat interesting. Why mess with success. He's the best center in football. 

 

Good well reasoned post,  but I'm fine with going OL (Scherff) with the 6th pick.  In Cleveland Joe Thomas is just one part of the equation.  The Browns were 17th in Rushing offense (below average), so they weren't dominant like a Seattle who was #1.   BTW Seattle was 27th in passing.  If you put Hoyer in a situation like Seattles, I think he'd have alot more success as would many other QBs.   Strong running teams give up less sacks, interceptions and force defenses to respect the run freeing up receivers.   I agree with the other needs, but I think we have some excellent, young OLBs available in Free Agency that will contribute right away, CBs not as many.  Regarding QB, we need to go FA as well as draft one. 

 

In a nutshell, if we draft Scherff, I see us:

 

Free Agency - CB, QB, OLB

Draft - OLB, QB, CB

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