Morrissey Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Adam Dunn who is 38 homers shy of 500 with 462 home runs retired at age 35. He's not even close to a Hall of Famer. Would of loved to see that case study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Adam Dunn who is 38 homers shy of 500 with 462 home runs retired at age 35. He's not even close to a Hall of Famer. Would of loved to see that case study. Dave Kingman was in the same boat. Both Dunn and Kingman will not get in, obviously. They did not meet the threshold. Many fall just short, that is why the threshold remains, and you do not compromise with "close", unless everything else is worthy. Right now, Clemens is the conundrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Dave Kingman was in the same boat. Both Dunn and Kingman will not get in, obviously. They did not meet the threshold. Many fall just short, that is why the threshold remains, and you do not compromise with "close", unless everything else is worthy. Right now, Clemens is the conundrum. but really, if Dunn stayed healthy and didn't completely fall on his face after he turned 30 he could of approached 600 if he played 5 more years, and even then he wouldn't of been a Hall of Fame player. He was a lock for 500 so called threshold. Guess he just didnt want it. Clemens like Bonds is HOFer, not sure what the conundrum is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 but really, if Dunn stayed healthy and didn't completely fall on his face after he turned 30 he could of approached 600 if he played 5 more years, and even then he wouldn't of been a Hall of Fame player. He was a lock for 500 so called threshold. Guess he just didnt want it. Clemens like Bonds is HOFer, not sure what the conundrum is. The conundrum is the writers. And I partially understand it, both are despicable humans. I know you need to separate that from the performance, but is always nice to stick it to an a$$hole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adb280z Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Who should be in the HOF? Rose, McGwire, Bonds, Hodges, Joe Jackson Who clearly don't and should be booted? Mazeroski, Ashburn, Evers, Ervin, about four SSs who batted about 260 and just about all the managers Hodges shouldn't be in the hall. Good but not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sg3 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Hodges shouldn't be in the hall. Good but not enough. Who did pitchers fear facing more? Gil Hodges or the two slapdicks Mazeroski and Ashburn who are already in the HOF, not mention slapdick Biggio who just got in. Not to mention best defensive 1B of his entire generation.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Who did pitchers fear facing more? Gil Hodges or the two slapdicks Mazeroski and Ashburn who are already in the HOF, not mention slapdick Biggio who just got in. Not to mention best defensive 1B of his entire generation.. Just because the veterans committee made a mistake by letting guys like Mazeroski in the hall doesn't mean they should make the same mistake again. Hodges was never in the top 5 in MVP voting in his career. 7th was the closest he ever came. If Keith Hernandez or Don Mattingly are not getting in, neither should Gil Hodges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincenzo69 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Schilling? All he has is his post season numbers, but those are not enough. He never led the league in anything, other than strikeouts. He is Kevin Brown. Mussina, same thing. Nice pitchers but not HOF material. they both should get in. Schilling just based on postseason record and Moose because he has 270 wins during steroid era Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincenzo69 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Who should be in the HOF? Rose, McGwire, Bonds, Hodges, Joe Jackson Who clearly don't and should be booted? Mazeroski, Ashburn, Evers, Ervin, about four SSs who batted about 260 and just about all the managers Rose and Bonds should get in but politically it will never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Going back to 1950, there have been 45 first-ballot guys, and fifty that had to wait. Just look at some of these name that didn't go in on the first ballot. Baseball writers have always been jackasses. The 45 first-ballot players: Al Kaline, Bob Feller, Bob Gibson, Brooks Robinson, Cal Ripken, Carl Yastrzemski, Dave Winfield, Dennis Eckersley, Eddie Murray, Ernie Banks, Frank Robinson, Frank Thomas, George Brett, Greg Maddux, Hank Aaron, Jackie Robinson, Jim Palmer, Joe Morgan, John Smoltz, Johnny Bench, Kirby Puckett, Lou Brock, Mickey Mantle, Mike Schmidt, Nolan Ryan, Ozzie Smith, Paul Molitor, Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, Reggie Jackson, Rickey Henderson, Robin Yount, Rod Carew, Sandy Koufax, Stan Musial, Steve Carlton, Ted Williams, Tom Glavine, Tom Seaver, Tony Gwynn, Wade Boggs, Warren Spahn*, Willie Mays, Willie McCovey, Willie Stargell 5 second-ballot: Carlton Fisk, Roberto Alomar, Rollie Fingers, Whitey Ford, Yogi Berra 8 third-ballot: Barry Larkin, Catfish Hunter, Craig Biggio, Fergie Jenkins, Gaylord Perry, Juan Marichal, Mel Ott, Ryne Sandberg 4 fourth-ballot: Early Wynn, Harmon Killebrew, Joe DiMaggio**, Robin Roberts 4 fifth-ballot: Don Sutton, Eddie Mathews, Phil Niekro, Roy Campanella 4 sixth-ballot: Billy Williams, Gary Carter, Luis Aparicio, Paul Waner 1 seventh-ballot: Jimmie Foxx 1 eighth-ballot: Hoyt Wilhelm 8 ninth-ballot: Al Simmons, Andre Dawson, Bill Dickey, Dizzy Dean, Hank Greenberg, Joe Medwick, Rich Gossage, Tony Perez 4 tenth-ballot: Don Drysdale, Joe Cronin, Lou Boudreau, Ted Lyons 1 eleventh-ballot: Duke Snider 3 twelfth-ballot: Bob Lemon, Gabby Hartnett, Harry Heilmann 2 thirteenth-ballot: Bruce Sutter, Ralph Kiner 3 fourteenth-ballot: Bert Blyleven, Bill Terry, Rabbit Maranville 1 fifteenth-ballot: Jim Rice 1 sixteenth-ballot: Dazzy Vance * Warren Spahn received a vote in 1958 as an active player (similar to DiMaggio, see note below). However, the B-R HOF results list him as a first ballot in 1973, whereas DiMaggio's 1945 is counted as the first of four times on the ballot. ** An explanation of DiMaggio. The Hall of Fame election process was not always under the same set of rules as it is today. At one time, writers could vote for anyone, including active players. DiMaggio was mentioned on 1 ballot in 1945. He did not receive consideration again until 1953 and 1954. He was elected in 1955, his fourth time receiving at least one vote. At that time, he had only been retired since 1951. Here are his percentages: 1945 BBWAA ( 0.4%) 1953 BBWAA (44.3%) 1954 BBWAA (69.4%) 1955 BBWAA (88.8%) Source: http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?121713-Wait-your-turn&p=2390745#post2390745 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 but really, if Dunn stayed healthy and didn't completely fall on his face after he turned 30 he could of approached 600 if he played 5 more years, and even then he wouldn't of been a Hall of Fame player. He was a lock for 500 so called threshold. Guess he just didnt want it. Clemens like Bonds is HOFer, not sure what the conundrum is. I think the conundrum hates to do with them cheating, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Funny how Bagwell is actually going to get elected in the next couple years whenever he was obviously a steroid guy. It's only cheating if you get caught, I guess. They all belong in. I think most people have forgiven the transgressions of the era, and dare I say, actually MISS it. I know I do. However, the sanctimonious writers are always going to pick and choose worthy players from the steroid era based on whether they think they were on steroids or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Funny how Bagwell is actually going to get elected in the next couple years whenever he was obviously a steroid guy. It's only cheating if you get caught, I guess. They all belong in. I think most people have forgiven the transgressions of the era, and dare I say, actually MISS it. I know I do. However, the sanctimonious writers are always going to pick and choose worthy players from the steroid era based on whether they think they were on steroids or not. Heard Bill Madden yesterday , and he is an anti steroid zealot. Basically said roids are cheating, heard from players he would not name they saw Piazza use. Not clear how he voted on Whitey Ford or Gaylord Perry. If you're going to play detective and deny Piazza you have to put an name to it. or you are a pussy. At a loss how or why he thinks we really know who did or did not use, which is my point. These writers sound like a bunch of bitchy old men demanding the young whippersnappers get off their goddamn lawns. bad news, Bill; storks and the birds and the bees thing is not how babies get made. Heard also Jon Heyman and Buster Olney, who were both incoherent. Olney didn't vote for anyone, which is dumb. Heyman didn't vote for Piazza because of supposed roids, but might do so in the future. And then tap-danced about how he might vote for roid user and mostly only DH David Ortiz. Heyman sounded like he really hand't considered any of this until he was confronted by noted tough interviewer Joe Benigno. Did he think no one was going to ask him to explains his stupidity? All 3 of these guys are highly paid professionals supposedly. Simple fact is these guys have set themselves up as some kind of priesthood win in fact many of them are a clown college. MLB needs to step in and take it away form them or minimize their role. This is a disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 Funny how Bagwell is actually going to get elected in the next couple years whenever he was obviously a steroid guy. It's only cheating if you get caught, I guess. They all belong in. I think most people have forgiven the transgressions of the era, and dare I say, actually MISS it. I know I do. However, the sanctimonious writers are always going to pick and choose worthy players from the steroid era based on whether they think they were on steroids or not. And that is the sad truth. I was listening to Felger and Holley talk about Pedro and Felger was ranting about how Pedro was adamant in his news conference about professing how he was clean. Felger was saying that is makes him skeptical. Holley asked him what did he see/hear or reasoning for being skeptical of Pedro. He said he was skeptical of everyone from the era. So he is guilty because he played and dominated during the era. Plus, he is guilty for merely playing in the era. I am in agreement with Bugg. Something needs to be done. It is a farce. I will be surprised if Olney loses his vote and/or suspended like Lebatard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adb280z Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Who did pitchers fear facing more? Gil Hodges or the two slapdicks Mazeroski and Ashburn who are already in the HOF, not mention slapdick Biggio who just got in. Not to mention best defensive 1B of his entire generation.. Never said Mazeroski or Ashburn should be in. Biggio is deserving, 290 HRs from 2nd base, Hodges a pure power guy only hit 370. Biggio also had 668 doubles where Hodges had 295. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adb280z Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Heard Bill Madden yesterday , and he is an anti steroid zealot. Basically said roids are cheating, heard from players he would not name they saw Piazza use. Not clear how he voted on Whitey Ford or Gaylord Perry. If you're going to play detective and deny Piazza you have to put an name to it. or you are a pussy. At a loss how or why he thinks we really know who did or did not use, which is my point. These writers sound like a bunch of bitchy old men demanding the young whippersnappers get off their goddamn lawns. bad news, Bill; storks and the birds and the bees thing is not how babies get made. Heard also Jon Heyman and Buster Olney, who were both incoherent. Olney didn't vote for anyone, which is dumb. Heyman didn't vote for Piazza because of supposed roids, but might do so in the future. And then tap-danced about how he might vote for roid user and mostly only DH David Ortiz. Heyman sounded like he really hand't considered any of this until he was confronted by noted tough interviewer Joe Benigno. Did he think no one was going to ask him to explains his stupidity? All 3 of these guys are highly paid professionals supposedly. Simple fact is these guys have set themselves up as some kind of priesthood win in fact many of them are a clown college. MLB needs to step in and take it away form them or minimize their role. This is a disgrace. Olney abstained from voting which is much better than submitting a blank ballot which costs everyone. http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/22889190/gaylord-perry-spitballs-totally-different-from-ped-use Would he cast a Hall of Fame ballot for a player linked to steroids? "Oh, not for a long time. I would wait, wait, wait. I guess (I would) when my brain gets old and forgives them.'' ... In terms of ethics and cheating, how much difference is there between throwing a spitter and using steroids? "There's a tremendous amount. You try things, you try to improve (in looking for a small edge). Back in the 1960s and 70s, we played hard. We had a good time.'' A lot of these writers are complete hypocrites. They voted in a known cheater but won't vote in someone based on sketchy rumors. And Heyman and Bill Madden have both said they'd probably vote for Ortiz because there's no evidence disregarding that he was on the original list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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