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The Big Mo Debate (to trade, or NOT to trade)


Greenseed4

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There is a quiet rumbling on message board mocks about whether or not to pursue the Suh and if that could lead to a Big Mo trade.

Now, all of this hinges on what defensive scheme we'll run under our new head coach...but it begs the question:

With, or without Suh,

in a (still) rebuild year, do you trade a top-10 player from a team's unit of strength (the DL) to potentially upgrade another area on the team through the draft?

And if you do, would you be okay trading him to the Colts, or the Seahawks, or whelp, the Patriots, if it meant you only got this years' first round draft pick?

His pending contract extension is definitely a major factor in all of this. But if you are Pro Mo, what kind of coin are you willing to commit to him? and for how long?

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I just don't understand why we could trade out best defensive player.  We finally have an established DL that is pretty damn good and there is a lot to be said about chemistry.  We have other needs that we need to address like DB, ILB, OLB, WR, OL, and QB.  I can't see trading for a pick for a player that may not even pan out.

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I think this is typical message board nonsense.  You don't sit around thinking about trading him.  You think about getting other players that can perform up to his level.  If someone calls you to inquire, you see what they will offer and ask for more.  If it is ridiculously good you consider it. The idea of letting Mo go and signing Suh is preposterous.  One guy is locked up this year and not a head case.  They other is a nutbag looking for a pay day and probably is even more duplicative of what we have than Mo.  

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You trade him but not to turn around and sign Suh, that would be utterly ridiculous. We have more than enough talent on that line. We could plug Coples there and it wouldnt be much of a fall off with the unit as a whole. We need to start spreading the talent around on this team and he's a bargaining chip. We dont have to trade him solely for draft picks, we can trade him for other talent. We need talent all over the place and I dont see anything wrong with plucking from the overstock worth of talent that we have on the d-line which hasn't had a winning season (as a team) since 2010. 

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I just don't understand why we could trade out best defensive player. We finally have an established DL that is pretty damn good and there is a lot to be said about chemistry. We have other needs that we need to address like DB, ILB, OLB, WR, OL, and QB. I can't see trading for a pick for a player that may not even pan out.

He is not "our best defensive player"

That title goes to #91

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trading mo would be a really bad move.  suh pushed martin around, he is a beast, but his next stomp is a big suspension.

 

just pay mo and get on with life.  the jets have the cap room to easily afford him.  you want to send a message to your locker room that if you perform and lead by a good example, you get paid here

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trading mo would be a really bad move.  suh pushed martin around, he is a beast, but his next stomp is a big suspension.

 

just pay mo and get on with life.  the jets have the cap room to easily afford him.  you want to send a message to your locker room that if you perform and lead by a good example, you get paid here

Trading Mo has nothing to do with Suh. We have Quinton Coples that we can sign to a nice multi year extension that would be pretty affordable and I believe that we could get somewhat comparable results from Coples. Trading Wilk will allow us to get something in return instead of signing him and ultimately losing guys such as Coples in free agency. The guy was playing out of position. Its not his fault that Rex just could not accept that a square peg will not fit into a round hole. There is no need to throw 50 to 60 million to Wilk but in the same sentence talk about all of the quality players and depth that we have on the D line. Why in the world would we sign him when that money could cover 3 players on that same line with money left over to sign a rookie from the draft pick we got in the trade or for the player(s) that we traded for. 

 

Things like that is what separates the good teams from the great teams. The Packers would draft and if some WR became a serious stud and they wanted their "pay day" the Packers will give them every opportunity to get it, either through a trade or straight free agency simply because they were confident that their depth was solid. Karl Dunbar is developing Talent all over the place. We have young guys such as TJ Barnes and IK behind the better known depth guys such as Douzable and Ellis. If you believe as I do in what Karl Dunbar can do with the defensive line then throwing 50 to 60 million at Wilkerson is then a mistake. The moment you do that then you have no room for the up and coming talent Karl is developing because you basically cuffed yourself via a contract that in the scheme of things really wasnt necessary given the current talent, depth and positions coach. 

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Trading Mo has nothing to do with Suh. We have Quinton Coples that we can sign to a nice multi year extension that would be pretty affordable and I believe that we could get somewhat comparable results from Coples. Trading Wilk will allow us to get something in return instead of signing him and ultimately losing guys such as Coples in free agency. The guy was playing out of position. Its not his fault that Rex just could not accept that a square peg will not fit into a round hole. There is no need to throw 50 to 60 million to Wilk but in the same sentence talk about all of the quality players and depth that we have on the D line. Why in the world would we sign him when that money could cover 3 players on that same line with money left over to sign a rookie from the draft pick we got in the trade or for the player(s) that we traded for. 

 

Things like that is what separates the good teams from the great teams. The Packers would draft and if some WR became a serious stud and they wanted their "pay day" the Packers will give them every opportunity to get it, either through a trade or straight free agency simply because they were confident that their depth was solid. Karl Dunbar is developing Talent all over the place. We have young guys such as TJ Barnes and IK behind the better known depth guys such as Douzable and Ellis. If you believe as I do in what Karl Dunbar can do with the defensive line then throwing 50 to 60 million at Wilkerson is then a mistake. The moment you do that then you have no room for the up and coming talent Karl is developing because you basically cuffed yourself via a contract that in the scheme of things really wasnt necessary given the current talent, depth and positions coach. 

 

the question posed was do we sign suh and trade mo

 

I say no

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the question posed was do we sign suh and trade mo

 

I say no

There was a variety of things posed here, such as "with or without Suh" "in a rebuild year do you trade a top 10 player" etc, etc. 

 

You said to simply pay Mo and get on with life, Im saying that no matter the situation (Suh or no Suh) that could end up being a bad signing given how the Jets have really been developing players at that position and the Dline in general. 

 

Im waiting for someone to give me a good reason why throwing 50 to 60 million to a guy who can be replaced is a good move. It sounds to me that people are thinking as fans of the guy and not really as a GM looking at the situation for what it is. We have strength and depth at that position and on that defensive line with arguably the best Dline coach in the business. If we really wanted we could trade him and lock up Harvin. We can trade him and be free to do so many other necessary things in places of need. The development of the players on that Dline makes Wilkerson expendable in a good way. 

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Coples is affordable compared to Mo simply because he is a worse player, with a worse motor and what appears to be a worse attitude.  

Wilkerson is better than Coples. But just because you said "worse player with a worse motor" doesnt mean that Coples is the worst player or is a bad player. He isn't as good as Wilkerson but has a damn good upside. Ik can also come in and do his thing. Two guys who are labeled OLB that are not linebackers. As for Coples attitude, I haven't seen anything that would be detrimental to the organization or the team so the point doesnt matter. I dont see much of a fall of if we plug in Coples with Douzable and IK in that supporting role. 

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Wait a year then decide.

Agreed.  Don't really get the rush to blow our cap room on locking up Wilk when he's still under contract and we can franchise tag him which was not the case with Revis.

 

Holes galore on the roster and we're supposed to sink all our cap room into extending Wilk because Coples would be suuuuuuch a downgrade when he wasn't.

 

Either that or give Ndamkung Suh $80 million.  Way to rebuild guys.

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Agreed.  Don't really get the rush to blow our cap room on locking up Wilk when he's still under contract and we can franchise tag him which was not the case with Revis.

 

Holes galore on the roster and we're supposed to sink all our cap room into extending Wilk because Coples would be suuuuuuch a downgrade when he wasn't.

 

Either that or give Ndamkung Suh $80 million.  Way to rebuild guys.

Exactly! You need to post around here more often. With all the talent on the defensive line along with arguably the best position coach in the game thats doing nothing but developing talent and people want to throw 10's of millions at a guy who can be replaced right now with guys currently on the roster. I could understand if he was the only bright spot on the Dline, but Wilk may no longer be the best player ON THE LINE these days. 

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Wilkerson is better than Coples. But just because you said "worse player with a worse motor" doesnt mean that Coples is the worst player or is a bad player. He isn't as good as Wilkerson but has a damn good upside. Ik can also come in and do his thing. Two guys who are labeled OLB that are not linebackers. As for Coples attitude, I haven't seen anything that would be detrimental to the organization or the team so the point doesnt matter. I dont see much of a fall of if we plug in Coples with Douzable and IK in that supporting role. 

Coples has been good for us so far I don't really get jets fans acting like he's Vernon Gholston.  He had 6.5 sacks last year playing out of position and did a good job filling in on the d-line when Wilk was injured.

 

I want both Wilk and Coples and if we switch to 4-3 I think it would help both players.  Just no need to give Wilk a $100 million contract right now when he could play another 2 years for us without doing anything to extend him other than a franchise tag.

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Coples has been good for us so far I don't really get jets fans acting like he's Vernon Gholston.  He had 6.5 sacks last year playing out of position and did a good job filling in on the d-line when Wilk was injured.

 

I want both Wilk and Coples and if we switch to 4-3 I think it would help both players.  Just no need to give Wilk a $100 million contract right now when he could play another 2 years for us without doing anything to extend him other than a franchise tag.

Exactly. No one is arguing that Wilkerson is a better player than Coples, though its really not Coples fault that he was playing out of position since the end of his rookie season. The point here is that throwing even half of 100 million to a guy who we can replace his production with guys currently on the roster is simply a waste of cap room and a blown opportunity to trade him somewhere like an Atlanta who is in desperate need of such services. If Rex ends up the coach there I can definitely see us trading with ATL and getting their 2nd and 3rd picks in the draft. Thats like them getting 2 draft picks, they'll have a proven player in Wilkerson and they still would have their top 10 pick to pick up an Outside Linebacker. Mix that in with Rex probably signing David Harris to play MLB and Atlanta has a revamped defense with a star on the line, a solid MLB and a rookie top 10 OLB and whatever they decide to do with the secondary. The Jets would have Coples and IK take care of the DE duties, redirect that money that would have went to Wilkerson to lock up Coples, Harrison and Douzable, pick up added talent with that 2nd and 3rd pick and given that we have to spend 90% of that cap money this year maybe even give Harvin that 10 million this year while drafting for his replacement this year if things dont work out for a new contract. 

 

There's so many things that we could do just by trading Wilk rather than signing him and losing all of the talent that we developed simply because we handcuffed ourselves to one guy. 

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Exactly. No one is arguing that Wilkerson is a better player than Coples, though its really not Coples fault that he was playing out of position since the end of his rookie season. The point here is that throwing even half of 100 million to a guy who we can replace his production with guys currently on the roster is simply a waste of cap room and a blown opportunity to trade him somewhere like an Atlanta who is in desperate need of such services. If Rex ends up the coach there I can definitely see us trading with ATL and getting their 2nd and 3rd picks in the draft. Thats like them getting 2 draft picks, they'll have a proven player in Wilkerson and they still would have their top 10 pick to pick up an Outside Linebacker. Mix that in with Rex probably signing David Harris to play MLB and Atlanta has a revamped defense with a star on the line, a solid MLB and a rookie top 10 OLB and whatever they decide to do with the secondary. The Jets would have Coples and IK take care of the DE duties, redirect that money that would have went to Wilkerson to lock up Coples, Harrison and Douzable, pick up added talent with that 2nd and 3rd pick and given that we have to spend 90% of that cap money this year maybe even give Harvin that 10 million this year while drafting for his replacement this year if things dont work out for a new contract. 

 

There's so many things that we could do just by trading Wilk rather than signing him and losing all of the talent that we developed simply because we handcuffed ourselves to one guy. 

If we trade Wilk to the Falcons and the #6 pick to Philly so they can get Mariota we could potentially end up with 4 first round picks the next 2 years.  That's not bad.

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If we trade Wilk to the Falcons and the #6 pick to Philly so they can get Mariota we could potentially end up with 4 first round picks the next 2 years.  That's not bad.

I'd trade down but I'm not sure if Philly would trade down for Mariota. Then again with the type of offense Chip runs they just might. Maybe we could take their pick and they can package Foles as well! 

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Wilkerson is better than Coples. But just because you said "worse player with a worse motor" doesnt mean that Coples is the worst player or is a bad player. He isn't as good as Wilkerson but has a damn good upside. Ik can also come in and do his thing. Two guys who are labeled OLB that are not linebackers. As for Coples attitude, I haven't seen anything that would be detrimental to the organization or the team so the point doesnt matter. I dont see much of a fall of if we plug in Coples with Douzable and IK in that supporting role. 

 

They are both FAs at the same time.  Nobody would prefer Coples to Wilkerson.  Until we know what they cost we can't really tell what the right move is, but Coples has been adequate, WIlkerson excellent.  Coples played down plenty and he never "broke out".  He didn't move to OLB until Richardson came around.

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They are both FAs at the same time.  Nobody would prefer Coples to Wilkerson.  Until we know what they cost we can't really tell what the right move is, but Coples has been adequate, WIlkerson excellent.  Coples played down plenty and he never "broke out".  He didn't move to OLB until Richardson came around.

"Coples played down plenty"???? The only year that Coples played down was his rookie season, the next two years he was a "converted" OLB. He's only been in the league for 3 years and been out of position for 2 of them. Yeah he moved to OLB when Richardson came in, that was only following his own rookie season.  You make it sound like the guy has been in the league for 3 years THEN got his position changed when the new guy came in. 16 games isn't "plenty" on anyones list, especially when you have more games played out of position. 

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IMHO, the players the Jets need to explore trading away are Brick Ferguson and Damon Harrison.

Brick Ferguson is best utilized in Pass protection while being a liability in run blocking. What sense does it make to have a player like this on a team with a QB who needs the protection of a solid running game. I believe one of the reasons the Jets are so bad at short yardage pick ups on offense is due to the fact that everyone knows they will run behind the Right Side of their offensive line. It's been that way even when the Jets were leading the league in rushing.

I think the Jets should look at trading Ferguson to a team like the Bears or the Saints.

As for Damon Harrison, this should only be explored if the Jets can resign Kenrick Ellis . Harrison is the type of NT who is a premier clog against the run but will have to fall into a sack. Ellis has the ability to clog the middle of a defense and get to the QB on a consistent basis.

Both these players have value around the league at Premium Positions which could bring back quality draft picks to fill areas of need on the team.

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Wilkerson is better than Coples. But just because you said "worse player with a worse motor" doesnt mean that Coples is the worst player or is a bad player. He isn't as good as Wilkerson but has a damn good upside. Ik can also come in and do his thing. Two guys who are labeled OLB that are not linebackers. As for Coples attitude, I haven't seen anything that would be detrimental to the organization or the team so the point doesnt matter. I dont see much of a fall of if we plug in Coples with Douzable and IK in that supporting role. 

He does not have a negative attitude.  Intimations are that he may not be as enthusiastic as they like all the time.  That can change.  The guy is a sweetheart.

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IMHO, the players the Jets need to explore trading away are Brick Ferguson and Damon Harrison.

Brick Ferguson is best utilized in Pass protection while being a liability in run blocking. What sense does it make to have a player like this on a team with a QB who needs the protection of a solid running game. I believe one of the reasons the Jets are so bad at short yardage pick ups on offense is due to the fact that everyone knows they will run behind the Right Side of their offensive line. It's been that way even when the Jets were leading the league in rushing.

I think the Jets should look at trading Ferguson to a team like the Bears or the Saints.

As for Damon Harrison, this should only be explored if the Jets can resign Kenrick Ellis . Harrison is the type of NT who is a premier clog against the run but will have to fall into a sack. Ellis has the ability to clog the middle of a defense and get to the QB on a consistent basis.

Both these players have value around the league at Premium Positions which could bring back quality draft picks to fill areas of need on the team.

The running game protects the QB  some.  But you have to have an LT.  You just have to.  He keeps the QB from getting killed, or strip sacked.  Brick is slipping,but you probably have to get another year out of him.  Cannot replace everything at once

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The running game protects the QB  some.  But you have to have an LT.  You just have to.  He keeps the QB from getting killed, or strip sacked.  Brick is slipping,but you probably have to get another year out of him.  Cannot replace everything at once

Brick can hang around another 3-4 years if our FO can get it's head out of its ass and sign a decent blocking Tight End and get us a couple Guards that can actually pass protect.  Aboushi is a JAG.

 

Brick has slipped the last 2 years because he's had to block on an island in between Brian Winters the human turnstile and Jeff Cumberland who couldn't block a crippled old lady.

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I'd trade down but I'm not sure if Philly would trade down for Mariota. Then again with the type of offense Chip runs they just might. Maybe we could take their pick and they can package Foles as well! 

If Mariota falls to us at 6 we might have to draft him just to see the package Philly offers us.  At the very least they would offer us their first plus a second.  Kelly wants him and the fan-base is going crazy for him.

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If Mariota falls to us at 6 we might have to draft him just to see the package Philly offers us.  At the very least they would offer us their first plus a second.  Kelly wants him and the fan-base is going crazy for him.

I would most definitely trade with Philly to get their first and 2nd round picks. I down want any of these top QB's, though if I had to chose it would be Winston. 

 

I'd rather trade the pick and get Ronnie Stanley at Philly's spot in the first round. 

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I would most definitely trade with Philly to get their first and 2nd round picks. I down want any of these top QB's, though if I had to chose it would be Winston. 

 

I'd rather trade the pick and get Ronnie Stanley at Philly's spot in the first round. 

Agree.

 

None of the prospects that are grading out as top 6 in the mock drafts impress me besides Winston and Cooper.  This actually is a terrible draft class as far as the top 10 goes which is why I think we should take a sure thing like Sherff at 6 instead of some crappy defensive player.

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Brick can hang around another 3-4 years if our FO can get it's head out of its ass and sign a decent blocking Tight End and get us a couple Guards that can actually pass protect.  Aboushi is a JAG.

 

Brick has slipped the last 2 years because he's had to block on an island in between Brian Winters the human turnstile and Jeff Cumberland who couldn't block a crippled old lady.

 

 

I really hate Cumberland.  To me he is a chicken football player.

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Agree.

 

None of the prospects that are grading out as top 6 in the mock drafts impress me besides Winston and Cooper.  This actually is a terrible draft class as far as the top 10 goes which is why I think we should take a sure thing like Sherff at 6 instead of some crappy defensive player.

My thing with Sherff is that he looks to be more of a monster Guard than a consistent LT. All that bullying of the defenders that he did in college is great but my concern is his technique at the LT position. Its one thing to beat a guy with natural strength which we both know he has, but can he beat a defender with technique? I can't say that I've seen that from him. The reason why i'm so high on Ronnie Stanley is because I see really good technique from him as a LT and most of all his technique is consistent. 

 

Sherff looks like a guard if you ask me, though the best guard in the draft...I dont want to sound like I'm discrediting him. My thing is if we're going to pick this high for a lineman it needs to be for a tackle prospect and not a dominating guard. If we didnt draft Aboushi, Dozier and Winters the last 2 years I would take a flier on him, but now we have to develop the talent that we brought in at Guard and we're not going to get a legit LT in Free agency so we need to get it in the draft. We can definitely get a solid guard in free agency though.

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My thing with Sherff is that he looks to be more of a monster Guard than a consistent LT. All that bullying of the defenders that he did in college is great but my concern is his technique at the LT position. Its one thing to beat a guy with natural strength which we both know he has, but can he beat a defender with technique? I can't say that I've seen that from him. The reason why i'm so high on Ronnie Stanley is because I see really good technique from him as a LT and most of all his technique is consistent. 

 

Sherff looks like a guard if you ask me, though the best guard in the draft...I dont want to sound like I'm discrediting him. My thing is if we're going to pick this high for a lineman it needs to be for a tackle prospect and not a dominating guard. If we didnt draft Aboushi, Dozier and Winters the last 2 years I would take a flier on him, but now we have to develop the talent that we brought in at Guard and we're not going to get a legit LT in Free agency so we need to get it in the draft. We can definitely get a solid guard in free agency though.

But we need a monster Guard - we actually need 2.

Draft Sherff, sign Iupati and sign Matt Spaeth who is cheap and a good blocking tight end. It's not just bad qb play that kills our offense our blocking has been awful last 4 years.

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