SouthernJet Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Here we go again with Belichick and Pats. The Spirit of Game is get a advantage through XsOs. I had ZERO issue with offensive formation vs Ravens. It was legal and Belichick knew it would probably confuse Ravens AND refs. But it was legal and a XsOs masterstroke. But.......... Spying / taping teams walkthrus and signals, deflating YOUR balls for advantage etc etc is where it becomes illegal and a potential ruination of game. Sad thing is it creates a fandom where they say 'Oh you are jealous, we are just shrewder, smarter than you'. Thats the danger, a future fandom that thinks skirting rules and 'if you get away with it its OK' is their new Fan Mantra. It's time Mr. Kraft (or NFL if Kraft found complicent). Belichick should and needs to be fired or given the opportunity to resign for the future integrity of the game and it's fans. A year suspension seems too soft since repeat offender. He is smart coach, just not good for the 'future morals' of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Can't you see it now, Kraft on TV doing a modern day Nixon..." the Patriot fans need to know that their owner and coach are not crooks." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Let them lose the Super Bowl. That's the best out come. I love watching them lose Super Bowls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 if the penalty is a fine or a draft pick, the NFL will be essentially saying. "you are a sucker if you don't cheat" the penalty has to be severe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obrien2Toon Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I feel the opposite, the in eligible receiver thing was way worse than spygate and deflating footballs. It actually changed the outcome of the game. That rule will be changed in the offseason, he got away with it because the refs were confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 if the penalty is a fine or a draft pick, the NFL will be essentially saying. "you are a sucker if you don't cheat" the penalty has to be severe It wont be. bellichick is a turd but this is the NFL's fault. Their punishment for spygate was a total joke. Does anyone doubt that if Pats didnt have two first rounders that year Gooddell would not have imposed that punishment? It was a total save face move designed to look harsh but in reality wasnt. Of course they took the worst first rounder too! JOKE. I feel the opposite, the in eligible receiver thing was way worse than spygate and deflating footballs. It actually changed the outcome of the game. That rule will be changed in the offseason, he got away with it because the refs were confused. It is ok to disagree but if you clear something by the refs before the game and it isnt against the rules, well then it isnt cheating. Maybe it is underhanded but it isnt cheating. NFL cant punish teams for doing things that arent against the rules. But yes rule will be changed for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I agree Rich, it's time that Robert Kraft steps up and does what is right for a change. Instead of befriending Roger Goodell and having him and his wife over for dinner and drinks ensuring that anytime a favorable to his team ruling is to come down it'll happen exactly the way that Kraft wants it to. Even if that means destroying evidence, or playing Marlon Brando on Connie's wedding day to Vince Wilfat's pregnant wife, giving her an audience as she pleads for Vince's side of the story that he didn't mean to dive for Jay Cutler's knees (after doing the same to JP Losman and Chad Pennington) thus no fines or suspensions should be levied-they weren't. What NEEDS to happen is for once, Robert Kraft must help the Commissioner out and take the onus off of him this time and either suspend or even FIRE BELICHICK! Patriots' DVD saved DT Wilfork from suspension by NFL Updated: November 4, 2008, 4:21 PM ET By Chris Mortensen | ESPN.com NFL commissioner Roger Goodell was poised to suspend New England Patriots defensive tackleVince Wilfork due to his prior illegal hits over the past two seasons, but a DVD from the Patriots' video department helped save him from at least a forced week off this season, sources told ESPN. Wilfork Wilfork's wife, Bianca, who joined Wilfork for the meeting, handed Goodell the DVD with a different camera angle that showed the alleged unnecessary roughness on Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler on a play in the Oct. 20 meeting between the Broncos and Patriots may not have been so rough. In the video, Cutler could be seen picking himself up and patting Wilfork on the helmet after the play. Wilfork did accept blame on his controversial hit against Buffalo Bills quarterbackJ.P. Losman last season that injured Losman's knee. Upon review of the play during his meeting with the commissioner, Wilfork admitted he didn't realize the ball had left Losman's hand as early as it did but said he had no intent to make a late hit, sources said. That play drew a $12,500 fine. The NFL did not have indisputable visual evidence that Wilfork hit Cutler in the head, as it first believed, but still determined that it was unnecessary roughness. Instead of a suspension, Wilfork was docked with a $35,000 fine. Vince and Bianca Wilfork wrote a thank you letter to Goodell at the end of the week. They also copied Ray Anderson, senior vice president of football operations, and Gene Washington, director of football operations, who were instrumental in the disciplinary action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryK Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Agreed. At the same time, I'm a bit envious of Mr Kraft's desire to win. League owners make gazillions whether they win or not. When you factor in whatever other wealth he has, his incentives can't possibly be financial. I wish my favorite teams had owners that were as motivated to bring home wins as he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 This is what's missing from most of the commentary going on right now. You're hearing a lot - it didn't affect the outcome, it didn't really help that much, everyone scuff's up the balls (that's legal though) etc... What you're not hearing is.... They submitted the balls with accurate air pressure, then deflated them. That's a clear and purposeful design to cheat the game. Rules are designed so everyone is on a level playing field. The integrity of the game is at stake, not wether they won or lost or how much it helped. In this case, for a repeat offender - it heavily and negatively affects the integrity of the game. That needs to be punished harshly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaoulDuke Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think if it's proven the Pats had a hand in the deflation of the balls (pretty hard to imagine it being a fluke), then wether it did or didn't affect the game is moot. They deliberately tried to gain a competitive edge by cheating. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Agreed. At the same time, I'm a bit envious of Mr Kraft's desire to win. League owners make gazillions whether they win or not. When you factor in whatever other wealth he has, his incentives can't possibly be financial. I wish my favorite teams had owners that were as motivated to bring home wins as he is. Jerry....I don't know you , and you are probably a great guy like most on this site. But if you truly are "a bit envious of Mr.Kraft's desire to win", then you have my deepest sympathies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think if it's proven the Pats had a hand in the deflation of the balls (pretty hard to imagine it being a fluke), then wether it did or didn't affect the game is moot. They deliberately tried to gain a competitive edge by cheating. Period. About it. More about the intent of the action rather the result. If a third to maybe half of the Colts balls have also been deflated then we could talk fluke. But ten of the Patriots and none of the Colts? Impossible without tampering. My questions is do you think the guy who deflated them for the Pats will lose his job for missing one out of the eleven? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 if the penalty is a fine or a draft pick, the NFL will be essentially saying. "you are a sucker if you don't cheat" the penalty has to be severe agree, thats my main worry. Pats/Belichick (in my opinion) decided years and years ago that cheating and losing money/draft picks was worth risk of SB Glory. The penalties are just NOT severe enough for cheating. I am sure the NFL will make more severe penaltys when jets get caught someday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 I feel the opposite, the in eligible receiver thing was way worse than spygate and deflating footballs. It actually changed the outcome of the game. That rule will be changed in the offseason, he got away with it because the refs were confused. but it was legal, the refs just didnt give Ravens enuf time to substitute. He probably knew that, but his formations were legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 Agreed. At the same time, I'm a bit envious of Mr Kraft's desire to win. League owners make gazillions whether they win or not. When you factor in whatever other wealth he has, his incentives can't possibly be financial. I wish my favorite teams had owners that were as motivated to bring home wins as he is. I dont want to win illegally. cause look what happens, Pats fans are a laughing stock to rest of NFL fans,,they chuckle at them as they walk by in Pats gear and whisper 'asterisks' or 'cheaters' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Here we go again with Belichick and Pats. The Spirit of Game is get a advantage through XsOs. I had ZERO issue with off formation vs Ravens. It was legal and Belichick knew it would probably confuse Ravens AND refs. But it was legal and a XsOs masterstroke. But.......... Spying / taping teams walkthrus and signals, deflating YOUR balls for advantage etc etc is where it becomes illegal and a potential ruination of game. Agree 100% on both points. Despite the outcome of the game, deflating footballs is a very serious issue. Nothing is going to happen before the Super Bowl, but it's all that's going to be talked about for the week & a half before the game. It's an embarrassment to the league, and the penalty needs to be severe - especially when you consider that Belichick is a repeat offender. The year off the league gave Sean Payton should be the minimum. That, a first rounder, and a stiff fine for Belichick personally and the team oughta do. I've always thought the whole Cheatriots thing was funny, but I've never been passionate about it. This is different. This is severe. The punishment needs to be, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaoulDuke Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 About it. More about the intent of the action rather the result. If a third to maybe half of the Colts balls have also been deflated then we could talk fluke. But ten of the Patriots and none of the Colts? Impossible without tampering. My questions is do you think the guy who deflated them for the Pats will lose his job for missing one out of the eleven? LOL No, my guess is the ball boy did exactly what he was told. Keep one inflated correcty in case the zebras are on to us so we can show them that one and say “hey look, this one’s fine”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 No, my guess is the ball boy did exactly what he was told. Keep one inflated correcty in case the zebras are on to us so we can show them that one and say “hey look, this one’s fine”. yup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 No, my guess is the ball boy did exactly what he was told. Keep one inflated correcty in case the zebras are on to us so we can show them that one and say “hey look, this one’s fine”. So they had a one in eleven chance of getting away with it? wow that theory sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 yup Did they mark that one ball so they would make sure they handed the right one to the ref for inspection? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32GreenIsGod Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 If Belichick is fired he'll be hired in 20 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 If Belichick is fired he'll be hired in 20 minutes. Not if permanently banned from the NFL, starting immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Any punishment by fines is meaningless. $500K personally to Belichick changed nothing. What, then? Fine him $1M? Is he going to stop because one year he's forced to make only $6.5M instead of $7.5M? The very idea is absurd. He needs to be suspended for a year minimum, if not banned permanently, since his spygate punishment was so inadequate to begin with. And Goodell knows first-hand just how inadequate it was since he was the one who felt the need to destroy the evidence. Then NE loses 1st and 2nd and 3rd round picks for 2-3 years. Then see how fast someone is to test the league's resolve like this again. But it won't happen. He may get a suspension, but only because he's so unpopular. Maybe a pick. Fine means nothing, as its proven to be a total non-deterrent, but he may get that also. And it will change nothing. And Brady will get off with nothing as well, even though in practical terms everyone has to know it was at his behest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32GreenIsGod Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Not if permanently banned from the NFL, starting immediately. Good luck with that little fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 If Belichick is fired he'll be hired in 20 minutes. Not if the owners are all behind this. Kraft will only make a move like that if he's pressured by other owners and in that case the other owners will agree, essentially to blackball the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Any punishment by fines is meaningless. $500K personally to Belichick changed nothing. What, then? Fine him $1M? Is he going to stop because one year he's forced to make only $6.5M instead of $7.5M? The very idea is absurd. He needs to be suspended for a year minimum, if not banned permanently, since his spygate punishment was so inadequate to begin with. And Goodell knows first-hand just how inadequate it was since he was the one who felt the need to destroy the evidence. Then NE loses 1st and 2nd and 3rd round picks for 2-3 years. Then see how fast someone is to test the league's resolve like this again. But it won't happen. He may get a suspension, but only because he's so unpopular. Maybe a pick. Fine means nothing, as its proven to be a total non-deterrent, but he may get that also. And it will change nothing. And Brady will get off with nothing as well, even though in practical terms everyone has to know it was at his behest. You are right. Won't happen. Goodell is the same guy who burned the spygate evidence. Bellicheat will probably be punished by being forced to wear sleeves on his sweatshirt for the next couple season. Thata teach him!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 If Belichick is fired he'll be hired in 20 minutes. it would be awesome to see him lose without Brady.. I'd love it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32GreenIsGod Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Not if the owners are all behind this. Kraft will only make a move like that if he's pressured by other owners and in that case the other owners will agree, essentially to blackball the guy. These scenarios are fun little Jets wet dreams. Be prepared to be very disappointed with this outcome. Kraft runs this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Good luck with that little fantasy. Nothing that drastic or permanent. Too much of a mark of failure on the league, I say put him in an elevator with Ray Rice for a few hours and call it a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 it would be awesome to see him lose without Brady.. I'd love it Yes force them to swap out Brady for Sanchez. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 These scenarios are fun little Jets wet dreams. Be prepared to be very disappointed with this outcome. Kraft runs this league. I don't expect anything to happen here...and yes it's fun to discuss how things can go down... But I totally agree...they'll be some token penalty but it will be backed up with a "we have no proof of who did it" but the team will be hit with a fine and 3rd rounder - maybe a 2nd if there's a lot of pressure... No suspensions whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Good luck with that little fantasy. You are probably right, considering that the Commissioner of the NFL watched a man beat the living you know what out of his wife and gave him 2 games. But, since this is a second offense for the same guy and team, and it's infringing on the biggest day of a multi-billion $ enterprise that has had a horrible year publicity wise, it's not that far-fetched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Belichick threw Brady under the bus in his press conference a little bit. Basically saying he didn't know anything at all about how footballs are handled during a game, or what Tom's preference for a football might be - you'll have to ask him. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 At the end of the day cheating translates to stealing money form the other owners and they should view it in that light. Why did Belichick spend so much time answering questions that nobody is asking? Nobody cares about the condition of the balls that Bill B. insists on for practice. Deflecting much? Does the word of BB have any credibility whatsoever on these kinds of subjects? How are we expected to believe that the mad professor, Mr "no football detail is too small", how are we expected to believe that only now he is learning about how balls are pressurized and checked before games? How are we expected to believe that given the fact that multiple people have said it absolutely affects the rate of fumbles by receivers and running backs? How are we expected to believe this if throwing and catching the ball are supposed to be easier with an under-pressurized balls? Or he could be a pathological liar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Interesting segment on SC this morning. I think it was Jerome Bettis and Mark Brunell doing a blind test on three balls. Both identified the under-pressure ball right away and both said it is a "huge advantage". Bettis in terms of tucking it away and defenders not being able to strip it out and Brunell in terms of the grip being able to improve the accuracy of throws. Better grip better throw period. Does anyone believe they rolled out this tactic for the first time in the AFCCG? Or perhaps they did it every week and every single close game win is now suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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