Justin Houston?

[Jetster]

Is KC at the top of their salary cap?

Is it possible that the Jets can poach this guy in Free agency? Houston is the type of player we have been missing for a long time in this defense.

If we were to make a big splash in FA this guy would be my #1 target. With our Dline, Davis emergence, adding Houston & drafting another young LB, our front 7 would be as good as any team in the league.

Probably just a dream as I'm sure KC would franchise him but weirder things have happened in the NFL.

[DaBallhawk]

Thanks, but no thanks. You can get an Orakpo or Worilds for a fraction of what Houston is going to cost you, and the dropoff isn't that significant. I rather "settle" for one of those guys and then spend the extra cash on a premium corner and/or some other holes we have to fill.

[Villain The Foe]

Thanks, but no thanks. You can get an Orakpo or Worilds for a fraction of what Houston is going to cost you, and the dropoff isn't that significant. I rather "settle" for one of those guys and then spend the extra cash on a premium corner and/or some other holes we have to fill.

When it comes to getting after the Quarterback then the drop off is rather significant. And if thats what the Jets are looking for in a LB then Orakpo and Worlids wont be in the same conversation. They're great talents, but if you're isolating the subject to getting to the QB they're not in that conversation with Houston and you pay that money.

 

To add, for the past few years Orakpo hasn't been able to stay on the field, and he's two years older than Houston at 28. 

[DaBallhawk]

I think you're getting too caught up with sack numbers. Houston, Coples, Wilk, Sheldon, Worilds...they all had about the same amount of QB hits last season, just to put it in perspective. To put it more in perspective: Watt had twice as many QB hits than Houston, BUT his sack numbers were less. Don't get caught up with that. Houston is just way too expensive, way too overpriced. He's not somebody who will give you 20 sacks per season, like a Watt. He might go down to 10 sacks again next year, back to what he used to do in his first 3 years. You don't pay a guy like that Watt type money. I wouldn't. And no, I don't think there's significant dropoff between him and Worilds. Worilds could easily outproduce Houston next season. Worilds could get 15 sacks and Houston might only end up with 12 or something like that. Houston is not Watt. He's not a proven difference maker at that level. He's a prime example of a guy who is going to break the bank and then you just hope he somehow continues to play at that level or at least doesn't drop off a lot and becomes a FA bust.

 

With Worilds or even Orakpo you take WAY less risk. Those guys will be in the 10-15 sack range if they stay healthy. Orakpo had some issues with that so I rather go for Worilds. But again, there's plenty of other options that can get the job done. Jabaal Sheard will be very cheap to pickup, he can be a 10 sack per year guy. Pernell McPhee from the Ravens is probably a 10 sack per year kind of guy. If you can get those for half of what Houston is going to cost you then do it. Whoever pays Houston 100+ mil. should be laughed at and I hope to god it's not Woody. I know it's not gonna be woody. Bowles is too smart for that. And like I said, we have other holes to fill. Get a good, young pass rusher, a #1 corner, an ILB, re-sign Mo, re-sign Coples, Snacks/Ellis, Sheldon is coming up soon. We need some O-Line help, a QB, a receiver who can start. I mean there's a lot of positions we have to upgrade and and guys/studs to be re-signed. You act like we have an infinite amount of money available and nobody to re-sign.

[Villain The Foe]

I think you're getting too caught up with sack numbers. Houston, Coples, Wilk, Sheldon...they all had the same amount of QB hits, just to put it in perspective. So he's just way too expensive, way too overpriced. He's not somebody who will give you 20 sacks per season, like a Watt. He might go down to 10 sacks again next year, back to what he used to do in his first 3 years. You don't pay a guy like that Watt type money. I wouldn't. And no, I don't think there's significant dropoff between him and Worilds. Worilds could easily outproduce Houston next season. Worilds could get 15 sacks and Houston might only end up with 12 or something like that. Houston is not Watt. He's not a proven difference maker at that level. He's a prime example of a guy who is going to break the bank and then you just hope he somehow continues to play at that level or at least doesn't drop off a lot and becomes a FA bust.

 

With Worilds or even Orakpo you take WAY less risk. Those guys will be in the 10-15 sack range if they stay healthy. Orakpo had some issues with that so I rather go for Worilds. But again, there's plenty of other options that can get the job done. Jabaal Sheard will be very cheap to pickup, he can be a 10 sack per year guy. Pernell McPhee from the Ravens is probably a 10 sack per year kind of guy. If you can get those for half of what Houston is going to cost you then do it. Whoever pays Houston 100+ mil. should be laughed at and I hope to god it's not Woody. I know it's not gonna be woody. Bowles is too smart for that. And like I said, we have other holes to fill. Get a good, young pass rusher, a #1 corner, an ILB, re-sign Mo, re-sign Coples, Snacks/Ellis, Sheldon is coming up soon. We need some O-Line help, a QB, a receiver who can start. I mean there's a lot of positions we have to upgrade and and guys/studs to be re-signed. You act like we have an infinite amount of money available and nobody to re-sign.

QB hits dont always translate into yard and down loss. Yeah, I'm caught up in sack totals, especially given that Coples, Wilk and Richardson had the same amount of QB hits and they're on the same team. Put Houston on this team and imagine what those same guys would be able to do. He doesnt have to give you 20 sacks a season, however, he'd be the best LB on the team and in the division who can give you that potential of 20 sacks a game with guys like Coples, Wilk and Rich in front of him. Cant say the same for the two other guys you mentioned. 

 

Your concern is about money which we have plenty of, my concern is about performance. I thought we would have learned that with Revis. 

[32EBoozer]

Thanks, but no thanks. You can get an Orakpo or Worilds for a fraction of what Houston is going to cost you, and the dropoff isn't that significant. I rather "settle" for one of those guys and then spend the extra cash on a premium corner and/or some other holes we have to fill.

With an "Obligation" to spend $40 mil this yr(approx.) I have zero problem with them bringing in "THE Best" OLB available.  Still plenty of room to make moves for a CB, QB($7 mil max considering what's out there) etc. I also want Iupati.

 

Houston brings "game changing" ability which also opens things up for our Front 7.

[DaBallhawk]

QB hits dont translate into yard and down loss. Yeah, I'm caught up in sack totals, especially given that Coples, Wilk and Richardson had the same amount of QB hits and they're on the same team. Put Houston on this team and imagine what those same guys would be able to do.

 

That's not the point, you don't look at yards lost or whatever. We're talking about pass rush, putting heat on the QB and if you look at the numbers Houston is no better at that than Coples/Wilk/Sheldon was, they're in the 20 QB Hits range. Watt had 50. That's premium. Sacks come in bunches, you have to look beyond that. I rather have a guy who is always harrassing the QB without having elite sack numbers (forcing incompletions, interceptions) than a guy who has way less QB hits but a couple more sacks. QB hits say a lot more about pass rushers than sack numbers do.

 

Also, Kansas has a good defense. Tamba Hali and Poe are excellent, Pro Bowlers, and Houston of course. You act like he's playing on a bad team. That defense played well & consistent. I'm really not interested in Houston, he has zero upside.

[The Troll]

Lol. A guy that just almost broke the sack record is available, and people are like "No way. We can get Jason Worilds".

 

This is why we suck.

[Villain The Foe]

That's not the point, you don't look at yards lost or whatever. We're talking about pass rush, putting heat on the QB and if you look at the numbers Houston is no better at that than Coples/Wilk/Sheldon was, they're in the 20 QB Hits range. Watt had 50. That's premium. Sacks come in bunches, you have to look beyond that. I rather have a guy who is always harrassing the QB without having elite sack numbers (forcing incompletions, interceptions) than a guy who has way less QB hits but a couple more sacks. QB hits say a lot more about pass rushers than sack numbers do.

 

Also, Kansas has a good defense. Tamba Hali and Poe are excellent, Pro Bowlers, and Houston of course. You act like he's playing on a bad team. That defense played well & consistent. I'm really not interested in Houston, he has zero upside.

How are you going to tell me what my point is or what I should look at? lol. I couldn't read your post beyond that. 

I will always respect your point of view, but not when you're telling me what my point "should be" or what I can or cannot look at. Thats just ridiculous. 

[DaBallhawk]

How are you going to tell me what my point is or what I should look at? lol. I couldn't read your post beyond that. 

I will always respect your point of view, but not when you're telling me what my point "should be" or what I can or cannot look at. Thats just ridiculous. 

 

If you judge pass rushers you don't go back yards lost on a sack, I just found it odd that you would come up with something like that. QB Hits is the key stat and if Houston has the same amount of QB hits than a Coples (who is garbage according to some, makes sense), a Wilkerson, a Sheldon, a Worilds and so on, then you don't pay that guy 100+ million. That's just insane. He's not Watt. I don't get your logic. I mean you seem to think he'll be even better here and produce 20-25 sacks a year I guess. I doubt he'd even crack 15 sacks next season if he plays for the Jets. And I also think that a Worilds could crack 15 sacks. So why pay one guy twice the amount the other would make when the production is similar? Worilds, all those other guys have upside, Houston has no upside. And that's the way I look at it, that's why it makes no sense. You disagree, that's fine. But I think it'd be a terrible move to spend 100+ mil. on Houston when you can get other great pass rushers for WAY less, guys that have upside, guys that do just more than just get the job done. Bowles doesn't need the guy with the most sacks to create pressure. He was able to get the job done in Arizona with a bunch of nobodies. Now he has 3 very good pass rushers in Sheldon, Wilk & Coples, guys he doesn't even have to blitz. Imagine how effective his defense would be with a legit pass rushing LB he can toy with a la Worilds. Anyway...we'll see what happens.

[Villain The Foe]

If you judge pass rushers you don't go back yards lost on a sack, I just found it odd that you would come up with something like that. QB Hits is the key stat and if Houston has the same amount of QB hits than a Coples (who is garbage according to some, makes sense), a Wilkerson, a Sheldon, a Worilds and so on, then you don't pay that guy 100+ million. That's just insane. He's not Watt. I don't get your logic. I mean you seem to think he'll be even better here and produce 20-25 sacks a year I guess. I doubt he'd even crack 15 sacks next season if he plays for the Jets. And I also think that a Worilds could crack 15 sacks. So why pay one guy twice the amount the other would make when the production is similar? Worilds, all those other guys have upside, Houston has no upside. And that's the way I look at it, that's why it makes no sense. You disagree, that's fine. But I think it'd be a terrible move to spend 100+ mil. on Houston when you can get other great pass rushers for WAY less, guys that have upside, guys that do just more than just get they job done. Bowles doesn't need the guy with the most sacks to create pressure. He was able to get the job done in Arizona with a bunch of nobodies. Now he has 3 very good pass rushers in Sheldon, Wilk & Coples, guys he doesn't even have to blitz. Imagine how effective his defense would be with a legit pass rushing LB he can toy with a la Worilds. Anyway...we'll see what happens.

An offense does not go back yards lost on a sack? Clarify that please. 

[New York Mick]

Adding him is a no brainer. You have to spend money to win.

[32EBoozer]

Lol. A guy that just almost broke the sack record is available, and people are like "No way. We can get Jason Worilds".

 

This is why we suck.

POTW!

[Charlie Brown]

Lol. A guy that just almost broke the sack record is available, and people are like "No way. We can get Jason Worilds".

 

This is why we suck.

Ummmm this....

[Ray Ray1]

FA decisions should also be made with consideration of the talent that will be available at the top of the draft and obviously specifically at #6.  So if it looks like the top LB's are in abundance at the top of the draft, maybe going after the top OLB in FA isn't the way to go.  Conversely, if the top WR's may go before #6, we should go after the top WR's in FA...

[papz187]

With an "Obligation" to spend $40 mil this yr(approx.) I have zero problem with them bringing in "THE Best" OLB available. Still plenty of room to make moves for a CB, QB($7 mil max considering what's out there) etc. I also want Iupati.

Houston brings "game changing" ability which also opens things up for our Front 7.

Exactly. We have to spend, it's time we bring in a legit pass rushing threat that we haven't had since Abraham. A top tier CB should also be a priority......we can get some good value bargains as well, but with the cap space we have and the need to spend it, I'd rather bring in a legit top tier pass rusher than a second tier guy.

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[32EBoozer]

Exactly. We have to spend, it's time we bring in a legit pass rushing threat that we haven't had since Abraham. A top tier CB should also be a priority......we can get some good value bargains as well, but with the cap space we have and the need to spend it, I'd rather bring in a legit top tier pass rusher than a second tier guy.

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KC Cap situation is F'd up... $2 mil over the cap and will be lucky to get to  $4 mil under. Houston is GONE!

Question is will he want to come to a team with a bad QB situation but a very good DL and a very good Defensive minded coach?

I'm sure a SB Ring is important, but so is getting your stats if you're a borderline HoF player.

 

I hope Bowles and Maccagnan can sell this guy on being a Jet.

[detectivekimble]

I think you're getting too caught up with sack numbers. Houston, Coples, Wilk, Sheldon, Worilds...they all had about the same amount of QB hits last season, just to put it in perspective. To put it more in perspective: Watt had twice as many QB hits than Houston, BUT his sack numbers were less. Don't get caught up with that. Houston is just way too expensive, way too overpriced. He's not somebody who will give you 20 sacks per season, like a Watt. He might go down to 10 sacks again next year, back to what he used to do in his first 3 years. You don't pay a guy like that Watt type money. I wouldn't. And no, I don't think there's significant dropoff between him and Worilds. Worilds could easily outproduce Houston next season. Worilds could get 15 sacks and Houston might only end up with 12 or something like that. Houston is not Watt. He's not a proven difference maker at that level. He's a prime example of a guy who is going to break the bank and then you just hope he somehow continues to play at that level or at least doesn't drop off a lot and becomes a FA bust.

 

With Worilds or even Orakpo you take WAY less risk. Those guys will be in the 10-15 sack range if they stay healthy. Orakpo had some issues with that so I rather go for Worilds. But again, there's plenty of other options that can get the job done. Jabaal Sheard will be very cheap to pickup, he can be a 10 sack per year guy. Pernell McPhee from the Ravens is probably a 10 sack per year kind of guy. If you can get those for half of what Houston is going to cost you then do it. Whoever pays Houston 100+ mil. should be laughed at and I hope to god it's not Woody. I know it's not gonna be woody. Bowles is too smart for that. And like I said, we have other holes to fill. Get a good, young pass rusher, a #1 corner, an ILB, re-sign Mo, re-sign Coples, Snacks/Ellis, Sheldon is coming up soon. We need some O-Line help, a QB, a receiver who can start. I mean there's a lot of positions we have to upgrade and and guys/studs to be re-signed. You act like we have an infinite amount of money available and nobody to re-sign.

 

Houston has gotten better each year.  He "only" had 11 sacks last year, but he only played in 11 games.

[DaBallhawk]

An offense does not go back yards lost on a sack? Clarify that please.

Not sure what you mean. And I don't care for yards lost, it's irrelevant to me when grading pass rushers.

[jack48]

When it comes to getting after the Quarterback then the drop off is rather significant. And if thats what the Jets are looking for in a LB then Orakpo and Worlids wont be in the same conversation. They're great talents, but if you're isolating the subject to getting to the QB they're not in that conversation with Houston and you pay that money.

 

To add, for the past few years Orakpo hasn't been able to stay on the field, and he's two years older than Houston at 28. 

getting after the QB is what it is all about on D.  That is why pass rushers make scouts salivate.

[RSJ]

Anyone else wonder if Sheldon Richardson will be used as trade bait? He is a great player - but probably fits a pure 4-3 team better. If the Jets can get Houston they would be playing with one of the best 4-3 3 techniques (Richardson) and one of the best 3-4 OLB's (Houston) on the same defense. I guess it will work if you want to be multiple - but these are two guys that don't need trickery to get to the QB. I don't know - but just a thought.

[papz187]

KC Cap situation is F'd up... $2 mil over the cap and will be lucky to get to $4 mil under. Houston is GONE!

Question is will he want to come to a team with a bad QB situation but a very good DL and a very good Defensive minded coach?

I'm sure a SB Ring is important, but so is getting your stats if you're a borderline HoF player.

I hope Bowles and Maccagnan can sell this guy on being a Jet.

Sweet! That's great news about their cap situation. Players like Houston, specifically pass rushers at his age, rarely hit the open market as teams would usually just franchise them if they can't agree on a long term deal......so this is a rare opportunity I definitely hope the Jets can cash in on.

It's time for Bowles and McCagnan to earn their paycheck by first selling Houston on New York! I couldn't think of a signing that I would be more pumped for than the Jets getting a young, legit pass rusher like this guy!

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[DaBallhawk]

Lol. A guy that just almost broke the sack record is available, and people are like "No way. We can get Jason Worilds".

This is why we suck.

Has anybody explained to this guy that football is a team sport?

[The Troll]

Has anybody explained to this guy that football is a team sport?

I'm not sure I follow your logic that sh*ttier players = a better team.

[Patriot Killa]

If we get Houston we will have a defense of all stars all under 26. WOW.

[32EBoozer]

I'm not sure I follow your logic that sh*ttier players = a better team.

[prime21]

Houston is going to cost a ton and as good a team player Wilkerson has been he's going to want to be the top paid defensive player on the Jets. I'd be good good with spending a little more on two linebackers Worilds and Sheard then spend a boat load on one player like Houston. If we didn't have as many holes to fill then go spend it on Houston but we need to get better at multiple positions so I'm good with loading up on B players that perhaps can grow into A players.

[32EBoozer]

Houston is going to cost a ton and as good a team player Wilkerson has been he's going to want to be the top paid defensive player on the Jets. I'd be good good with spending a little more on two linebackers Worilds and Sheard then spend a boat load on one player like Houston. If we didn't have as many holes to fill then go spend it on Houston but we need to get better at multiple positions so I'm good with loading up on B players that perhaps can grow into A players.

Don't you think teams let go of the "A" players when they have cheaper "B" players stepping in or are in Cap Hell?

You use the Draft to get the players to take over for the stars. You get the "A" player when you are totally void of talent on your roster.

[DaBallhawk]

I'm not sure I follow your logic that sh*ttier players = a better team.

You don't follow any logic so I'm not even going to explain this to you again since it's a lost cause.

[DaBallhawk]

Houston is going to cost a ton and as good a team player Wilkerson has been he's going to want to be the top paid defensive player on the Jets. I'd be good good with spending a little more on two linebackers Worilds and Sheard then spend a boat load on one player like Houston. If we didn't have as many holes to fill then go spend it on Houston but we need to get better at multiple positions so I'm good with loading up on B players that perhaps can grow into A players.

 

Finally somebody making sense and actually understanding the fact that we don't have infinite amounts of cash to spend, that we have other holes to fill, players to re-sign etc.

[prime21]

Don't you think teams let go of the "A" players when they have cheaper "B" players stepping in or are in Cap Hell?

You use the Draft to get the players to take over for the stars. You get the "A" player when you are totally void of talent on your roster.

depnds on your cap space. You don't go spend on a A player if you can't afford other players on roster void of talent. I just want to spend wisely but be precise. Identify the needs, make a plan and subsequent back up plans and then go out and execute. I think we have the right guys running the show now. They don't look they want to make a plahs on free agency. They want to get the right players in here to get this team back on the winning track. I'm looking foward to see who these guys go after.

[32EBoozer]

Finally somebody making sense and actually understanding the fact that we don't have infinite amounts of cash to spend, that we have other holes to fill, players to re-sign etc.

$50 mil is nearly "Infinite" in my book.

I guess you prefer bringing in another Patterson type player per the "Idzik" plan.... Fail.

[Villain The Foe]

Not sure what you mean. And I don't care for yards lost, it's irrelevant to me when grading pass rushers.

lol 

[RSJ]

Getting rid of the Harvin contract will create even more cap room. I don't see Harvin being a good fit with Bowles. The Jets could sign Dez and Houston without a problem and still sign more guys if needed. 

[DaBallhawk]

$50 mil is nearly "Infinite" in my book.

I guess you prefer bringing in another Patterson type player per the "Idzik" plan.... Fail.

 

Dude, just think before you type. Coples' option eats up 15-20% of that "infinite" amount of cash. For one year. Wilkerson has to be resigned, there goes another 20% I'd guess. That's about 20 mil. per year, gone. Snacks has to be re-signed, or Ellis. We might tender Snacks, so that's probably 3-4 mil. for next year so let's say it's 25 mil. for these 3 guys. That's already like half of "infinite". David Harris has to be brought back or at least somebody of his caliber, there goes another roughly 5 mil. Probably a little more. So that's 30 mil. if I'm not mistaken. You notice something? We haven't even signed a single free agent yet and like 30 mil. is already out the door. You want Houston? That's at the very least 15 mil. per year, probably closer to 17 or 18 mil. So...now we have how much left? 10-15 mil.? We plugged one hole. Wow. Great. How about that corner? Want Kareem Jackson? There goes another 10 mil. probably.

 

Where's your "infinite" 50 mil. now? We still need an adequate QB. A starting receiver. A stud Guard. More depth at a lot of positions. Some cap room for next year and the years after to play with in order to extend some up & comers like Sheldon, Coples, Snacks/Ellis etc. and be able to bring in free agents to improve the team. You don't throw all your eggs in one basket by spending all your dough on a Justin Houston. With so many other options out there for a fraction of what he'd cost you. Give me a break. Watch who's going to be after Justin Houston. It's not gonna be the good teams, it's not gonna be the smart teams, not the winners, not Seattle, NE, San Fran, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Denver, Green Bay. No. It's gonna be the dumbest and most desperate teams in the league, like Washington, Oakland, you get the picture. Give me your picture please, maybe I'm missing something. Tell me how you'd solve this, bring in Houston, re-sign all our studs and then bring in all these other stud free agents.

 

EDIT

Forgot about the draft class.